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Labour turns guns on Salmond

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Published Date: 07 January 2007
THE fierce pre-election fight between Labour and the SNP descended into personal abuse yesterday after Jack McConnell accused Alex Salmond of being "snide", "sarcastic", and indulging in "playground mockery".
In what amounted to a full-frontal assault on the SNP leader's character, McConnell claimed Salmond was somebody of no experience in governing, who preferred to score cheap political points rather than get results .

Salmond, he added, was "out of touch" with modern Scotland, still engaged in fighting the battles of 30 years ago.

The bitter attack was met with derision by the SNP leader last night, who said that if McConnell wanted to challenge him, he should agree to a head-to-head debate to let the public make up their own minds.

McConnell's aides meanwhile said that Salmond would now be increasingly targeted in the run-up to the campaign as they seek to capitalise on what they see as his weakness as a statesman.

"We were half-expecting Salmond to appear on Celebrity Big Brother," said one Labour aide yesterday.

The assault will be led over coming weeks by Labour MPs who will be told at a meeting this week to put renewed pressure on Salmond.

Labour hope to use the Scottish Question Time slot at the House of Commons to put him under the microscope.

Labour campaign chiefs also say they plan to highlight what they see as the contrast between McConnell's experience in government, and Salmond's career in opposition.

McConnell made his comments in a speech to Labour candidates in Edinburgh yesterday. He said: "I am in politics to change things. To create positive change rather than simply attack other politicians. If you want snide comments, sarcastic laughter and playground mockery you know which leader to go to." The SNP, he added, had "no experience - none of hard decisions, tough choices, getting things done, from their leader on down".

The public wanted a First Minister "able to take tough decisions", such as implementing the smoking ban, and someone able to "get things done", such as reducing hospital waiting times and increasing jobs.

He concluded: "Compare this with the prospect of an SNP leader living in the past. Still fighting the tired battles of the 1970s such as oil.

"He is out of touch, with no experience of the hard decisions of government, far less modern Scotland, who will say anything to get elected."

Salmond rounded on McConnell last night. "Labour's campaign started as one of a series of panic attacks, unmitigatedly negative about Scotland's prospects, and has now descended into personal abuse," he said.

"The First Minister has ducked every opportunity for a head to head debate on the future of Scotland preferring to rely on assaults on the SNP from London heavies. Now he is launching assaults from the safety of his own candidates' meeting.

"Once the election campaign gets under way there will be no place to hide and the contrast will become clear between the SNP's positive vision for Scotland and the unremitting negativity of Labour's campaign."

McConnell's attack on Salmond's character comes after independent polls have suggested that Salmond is marginally preferred as First Minister.

Now, Labour aims to hit back by stepping up the attack both on Salmond's record and the SNP's spending pledges, which it claims are uncosted and will leave a £5bn black hole in Scotland's finances.

The Nationalists are proposing to scrap student debt, reintroduce student grants, and bring in a local income tax.

Labour aims to drive home the message of reliability in coming weeks when a series of UK Labour ministers come to Scotland. Prime Minister Tony Blair is also expected to make regular visits north.

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1

not allowed my name anymore,

07/01/2007 01:08:56

jacks got a sweat on

2

scottwebb.co.uk,

07/01/2007 01:09:20

Quote: Salmond, he added, was "out of touch" with modern Scotland..............Thats truly rich coming from Mr McConnel......ive said it before and i will say it again......Jack should be doing live stand-up shows, as the man is a comedian :)

3

Androsthenes,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 01:21:23

"Prime Minister Tony Blair is also expected to make regular visits north."

Not if Labour wants to win the next election .

4

Wisnaeme,

Sent to Coventry, 07/01/2007 01:29:43

.
Aye, right enough comment one.Perhaps McConnell has belatedly realised that there is only one black hole of consequence for himself and others of his persuasion and IT'S TIME of occurence is fast approaching, third of May I believe.

.

5

2dogs in D.C.,

at home with the boys 07/01/2007 01:36:05

May is going to be very,very interesting. Damned if you do and double damned if ya don't. I just love history in action. I DO wish Scotland all luck. .

6

Colkitto,

River Clyde 07/01/2007 01:51:15

C'mon Jack, have a head to head debate. Then we will see if your "snide" comments hold up.

Why will the BBC or STV not initiate this ?

7

Colkitto,

River Clyde 07/01/2007 01:53:34

Lets have a poll.
Question-Would you like to see a live debate between McConnell and Salmond ?

Vote Yes or No

8

Colkitto,

River Clyde 07/01/2007 01:53:58

Yes

9

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 01:55:12

6. 2dogs in D.C., /Jackass is so worried. That he has skid marks on his chin. well he has been talkin crap for years,

10

ColinEdin,

07/01/2007 01:57:09

I cannot wait! Labour please keep attacking the SNP! The more you do it the more you help Scotland become a country without your leadership!

Do Labour never learn lessons from the past? In 1997 the Tories ran a negative campaign against Labour, look where it got them! There are so many quotes from Jack McConnell in this article that can be applied to himself with even greater measure than they can ever be applied to Alex Salmond. Nomatter what your opinion on the SNP is, I find it hard to believe that there is anyone who seriously thinks Jack McConnell is a better politician than Alex Salmond. Except maybe the few die-hard Labour supporters that can't see the absurdities in their own party.

11

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 01:58:21

mCONnells adisors told him years ago .,Dont go near wee eck ,he will destroy you , ya wee jobby.

12

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 02:02:50

11. ColinEdin /Bang on .joke is a known coward'
salmond would wipe the floor with him, hence mconnells cowerdice to a face to face debate.

13

Daibhidh,

Oban 07/01/2007 02:08:11

Em, and what experience di Joke McConnell have of leading a country before he became FM?

NONE...and he's made a complete hash of it...so ain't it a wee bit hypocrytical to have a pop at Salmond?

In any case, Salmond's pinky has more flare and ability than Jack will every have...

Bring on Independence in 2007...

14

doug 1745,

Glasgow 07/01/2007 02:15:51

I would love to see a debate with wee jack the lad and alex salmond. wee Jack would have no chance because alex salmond supports scotland and wee jack supports his master blair

15

2dogs in D.C.,

digging the hell out of this 07/01/2007 02:38:34

# 10-Mr. Rab, (i guess?) Brown nosers are not to be despised. Unless, of course, they are not DOGS :-).Really,however, good luck come May.

16

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 07/01/2007 02:52:54

Jack McConell is a balloon.
Alex Salmond is a buffoon.
Doesn't look good with either of these two in charge after the election.

17

,

07/01/2007 03:19:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

2dogs in D.C.,

skritchn da boys ears 07/01/2007 03:32:14

#21-Mr.ptdoug- As they say, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. But, as i say, if you run with the big ones, be ready for rabies :~)

19

Keren,

07/01/2007 03:42:40

When people start being abusive rather than concentrating on policies and ideas it shows they have lost the argument and Labour have lost the argument and have therefore resorted to petulant childish abuse.

They can no longer be taken seriously and have the look about them already of a party who are about to lose an election.

It's time to make sure they do.

20

tjinphilly,

Philadelphia, USA 07/01/2007 05:17:15

I love how Sassy Jack calls Salmond "snide" and "Sarcastic" and then goes on to say how he is not going to get into personal attacks and wants to discuss real issues. WHAT A HYPCRITE!! If he wants to discuss the issues than accept Mr. Salmond's challenge to a debate.

But I guess Jack does not have time to debate as he is probably busy cleaning up after his sons drunken party at the residence where his friends were wearing his parents clothes and such.

Hey do you think that if Sassy Jack gets re-elected that he will wear that snazzy dress he wore to New York's Tartan Week? Talk about out of touch with modern Scotland.

And how out of touch do you have to be to say that oil was a topic for the 70's? Has he read any newspapers in the last 30 years? Has he looked at the cost of petrol in the last 18 months? HELLO??? Can you say IDIOT!!!

21

Pete39,

Tassy 07/01/2007 07:03:11

A good first move. For someone who has experienced the Labour supporters down and dirty methods, Jack McConnell is playing it right above board.

22

Ubi,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 07:49:39

The pot being savaged by the kettle.

23

The Daleks,

07/01/2007 07:51:43

#27

"Jack's major acievements" !!!!???

1. The Fresh Talent Initiative.

ie. Flooding the country with cheap Eastern European labour, driving down wages and conditions, and keeping native Scots out of much needed jobs.

2. Banning smoking.

ie. More erosion of personal freedoms.

People had already stopped smoking on public transport, and in the workplace. Pubs and clubs could quite easily have been encouraged to set up no smoking areas without draconian new laws.

3. Sectarianism.

Outside of some football grounds and certain pubs, how big a problem was sectarianism in 21st century Scotland?

I'm old enough to remember the 60's when this was a real issue (particulary on the West Coast), but it was an issue that was dying a natural death as Christianity lost it's grip.

4. Aid to Malawi!!!!!!

It's NOT Malawi that needs aid. Send some to Easterhouse or Pilton!!!

24

Heidegger,

Fife 07/01/2007 07:56:47

For "guns" read "pea-shooters"!

25

morris,

edinburgh 07/01/2007 09:02:32

The real danger for the SNP is that defections are now probable from sinking ship Labour,and its NOT an acceptance of independence.Its self preservation so they can stay on the gravy train.
These defectors were members of a political party which conned Scotland out of her birthright. (also Liberal and Tory).
The facts are independence was financially sound,embarrassingly so,all UNionist parties knew this and chose to bury the truth and tell Scotland she was incapable of survival and like Albania should she leave The UK.This is treason and there is no other word for what they have done.
Let them stand as Labour candidates so we can destroy them at the ballot box.They deserve a firing squad! At least we can fire them !
They could well be spies in the nationalost camp.The SNP needs to be more aware now than ever.The quisling Labour Party are worried but its not for the people of Scotland or they would have quit this set of sponges years ago!

26

Steve,

Bo'ness 07/01/2007 09:02:41

Banning smoking is a good one!
A year after Ireland, and a year before the rest of the UK. Groundbreaking decision, Jack!
And you can only start to crow about the "fresh talent initiative" when you stem the flow of 60000 young Scots leaving the country every year.

Jack McConnell is a complete failure.

27

morris,

edinburgh 07/01/2007 09:25:46

32 Things wont get better simply because London still controls the finances.Until we are independent as in 100% then we could hardly expect anything else.Long term every single reliable report says we are heading toward a very healthy economic basis indeed, including Westminsters own evaluation under Proffessor McCrone.
The problem is we have people who are too stupid to recognise that London has conned Scotland out of billions. Whilst some of us knew it thirty years ago many still dont realise what has happened even though its now officially history and cannot be disputed.
If you cannot understand you have been fed a load of cobblers theres no point debating with you.As for your presumption to know every single member of the SNPs capabilities,I can only say you must be a memory act.Even the SNPs official data base does not contain that information.
How can any intelligent person decry the entire membership of any organisation without having being a member and therefore having access to their details,and even then he only has an opinion.There are thousands of SNP members and most joined because they are tired of the numpties who we elected to govern us but display a total lack of judgement frequently.
Because the parties which have governed have a track record which has not impressed it does not mean every party is like this.Most SNP members joined for precisely those reasons and are as yet untested in government.This is the one genuine claim the Labour party can fire at the SNP.You have no experience of claiming expenses sitting on your fat rear and betraying the people who elected you into office.Indeed this is very true.They also have not had to borrow millions from the IMF to balance the books because Gordons predictions of growth in the economy were total rubbish.
If you fear the SNP what are you doing with Joke McConnel and Bliar in office?The SNP couldnt possibly screw things up as much as these idiots have.Even Labour Party membe

28

Citylocal Fife,

Diametrically opposed to Greedy Grabbit Gordon 07/01/2007 09:32:05

#8 Yes

Quote,

"We were half-expecting Salmond to appear on Celebrity Big Brother," said one Labour aide yesterday.

******Ends************

If he did, but I sincerely doubt that he would; it would be in much better taste than a certain 'someone' who wore a Pin Striped Kilt on the 'International Stage'

29

Mikey,

07/01/2007 09:40:57

As a person who voted 'no' in the 1979 referendum, I think that I did the right thing then and I'll do the right thing in May.

I look around the chamber in Holyrood and all I see (with a few honourable exceptions) are a bunch of self seeking NuLab, Tory and LibDem unionists who seem to regard membership of the 'wee' parliament a prerequisite to gaining membership of the 'big' parliament down south. I see people who can't think for themselves and have to wait for the go ahead from their masters down south before they open their mouths. I see people who say one thing and then do another as in the Trident debate.

I just hope that I AM representative of the voters of Scotland as a whole and that the people of Scotland will stand up in May and turn out these self serving morons back into the gutter they crawled out of.

Let's have a debate between Jack and Alex and let's have the questions fielded from a studio audience, not just a collection of statements. Let's have citations in the answers, not just lies.

Are you listening BBC and STV?

30

Cadgers,

07/01/2007 09:53:26

"Labour turns guns on Salmond"....water pistols?

"McConnell claimed Salmond was somebody of no experience in governing".....And Joke has?

Joke's getting sweaty................

31

I've had enough,

Falkirk 07/01/2007 09:55:14

#8 Colkitto
My vote is YES!

32

steve 1511,

07/01/2007 10:05:49

jack mc waffles mob,they have failed at every thing,or have i missed some improvement on some thing,the only thing that has went up are mps expenses

33

DavyLadd,

Highlands 07/01/2007 10:06:14

McConnell is terrified of a head to head with Salmond because Jack may be asked embarrassing questions such as 'do you not agree that many other smaller nations with less resources have become wealthy?' or 'Is the reason the UK has not embraced the euro because it would immediately become apparent without the use of a calculator that all the other EU members are paying far less for goods than we are?, including products made in Scotland?'

The reason Jack wont come out to play is because he knows the moment Alex shines a light on his policies the people will gasp in horror.

Poor Jack is in the unenviable position of defending the policies of a defunct so-called 'United Kingdom'.

34

,

07/01/2007 10:06:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

Dave M,

07/01/2007 10:18:49

Why would anyone be surprised by this?

Labour have always been the party of bullies.

Why didn't Jack just ask for a debate?

36

James Moore,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 10:20:36

Both McConnell and Salmond are not fit to run Scotland!

No to Independence!

37

Ian G,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 10:30:13

I joined the SNP not because I wear a kilt, I don't but if I went to the USA I would wear a tartan one on Tartan Day and not a pin strip kilt.
I did not join the S.N.P. because I loved Scotland but because I was ashamed of it! It can and could be better, it should be better.
Scotland's biggest export is its people.
How on earth can any government be proud of that?

On the one hand we are told Scotland needs a begging bowl to survive.
On the other we are sold that Jack's party has made Scotland a rich and better place in which to live.
We the people are expected to accept both statements as truth, we are treated just idiots.
Of course many people are, as they keep voting for Labour Quislings. One has the right to belive in something but once it has been proven to be false the adult thing to do is to change ones mind.
The childish thing is to keep faith with liars.
I am starting to belive that Labour supporters also belive in Santa Clause; the Tooth-fairy, everything their Father told them and that Jack and Tony know best simply because they were brought up as little children to do so.

Well I don't belive in God let alone in the Tooth-Fairy or Labour's God given right to Govern for ever as if it were written down in Tablets of Stone by God. Jack was a school teacher with no knowledge of running anything let alone a party or Goverment.

I stopped beliving in my Father when I was a wee boy [love you Dad] I'm an adult politics is not about being loyal to a football team [my Father and I supported diferent teams] it polices and what we would like Scotland to be when our grandchildren grow up to inherit what we leave them.
More of the same or change it? I'm for change.
It's Time!

Being apathetic staying at home or voting for Labour because a newpaper tells you to, will never change anything.
Come May vote S.N.P.

38

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 10:35:39

All I hear coming from New Labour is negativity, negativity, negativity. Where is their vision for a vibrant, achieving Scotland?

Personally I'll be voting for an independent Scotland but if I was undecided I would be choosing a party that has a vision of how Scotland should be, not one that does little else than mud sling.

Regarding a head-to-head debate. Union Jack will never face Alex Salmond on a political stage for two reasons. First, he does not want to give the SNP any column inches that the press couldn't deny them on this occasion. Secondly, He knows Salmond is a political heavyweight and would wipe the floor with him.

39

Dave M,

07/01/2007 10:38:26

47 I agree with you.

I find it particularily strange that people vote Labour because their grandfathers did.

Today's Labour party bears no resemblance to anything our predecessors voted for but still the sheep tick the box.

Now they vote for a party that goes to war illegally in support of an ultra right wing US president and support the renewal and use of nuclear weapons.

40

David Park,

Ayrshire 07/01/2007 10:42:45

46. That is perhaps the most impressive argument I have heard in favour of the union:- if you know what I mean.

41

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 07/01/2007 10:42:55

I prefer Jack to Alex but I'm not that keen on either of them, but this is an odd story - does Jack really think this is going to impress anyone?

42

David Park,

Ayrshire 07/01/2007 10:49:34

50. Your 'astonishing' knowledge of Scottish history is equalled by your understanding of Scotland's economy.

"Scotland asked to be included in the union..."

Hohohohohoho....hahahahahha.

43

Liam,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 10:52:45

The pair of them aren't worth the air time ... thank god there are alternative voting options for Scots voters. And it's a PR system - everything to play for - so don't let either of these two dinosaur parties tell you it's a two-horse race.

Jack and Alex have a lot to answer for - the pair of them have alienated voters, and many voters out there aren't looking forward to the slanging match of the next four months. Who can blame them?

44

Jimmy Deuchars,

Glasgow 07/01/2007 11:01:29

For once Jack's got it spot on. Alec Salmond attacks the person rather than the policies. He does remind me of school bullies. He even has a daft wee lassie to do his work for him in the Scottish Parliament while he pretends he is a bigwig in the house of commons.

45

Phil C,

07/01/2007 11:02:19

Don't give any thought or time to this type of waffle. Just vote SNP in May and then vote in the good!

46

James England,

07/01/2007 11:05:18

Blair and his Labour Party are getting worried about it's strong hold in Scotland. otherwise why bring out the big guns. or should one say loose cannons.

47

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 11:07:18

Jack McConnell accused Alex Salmond of being "snide", "sarcastic", and indulging in "playground mockery". You are looking in the mirror Jack.You have just discribed what the public think of your[pathetic] self.

48

,

07/01/2007 11:07:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 267032, Article id was mapped to record!
49

weeshooie,

Livingston 07/01/2007 11:15:01

Yes! to a televised debate, but Jack will not step up for this.
If he does, could someone count how many times he says "for the people of Scotland" and a "For the good of Scotland" during the debate, just in case I miss it? this will give everyone a real indication of how insincere this excuse for a first minister really is.
he cannot answer a question! He cannot tell the truth! He cannot justify giving away millions to Malawi because he never had a mandate to do it.
He has presided over a complete failure in the NHS and education. His anti smoking policy is a failure with a 6% increase in tobacco sales!
did you know that if you complain too much about the health service or any specific consultant you will receive a legal letter from the legal department of your Heath Trust, denying you treatment? I know because have one or daring to complain.
is this really what you want for Scotland.
I wonder if it would be better for Alex to say nothing and let these paranoid megalomaniacs ramble on?

50

bratachdubh,

07/01/2007 11:19:47

Yes to a debate. I'd like to watch McConnell squirm when he can't come up with any real answers.

51

Harryc,

07/01/2007 11:21:41

Ah good, an article on the issue of independence, on come the benefit scrounging jobless neds to tell us all what a godly saviour of the nation of Scotland Alex Salmond will be, when in reality the sensible people hopefully realise he's a loud mouthed clown who obviously thinks that calling people childish names like 10 year olds in a playground is the best way to win votes from the sensible people of this country, people who actually have a clue about what politics is about. Jack, I support you every step of the way.

52

Edward,

07/01/2007 11:24:29

As regards a live tv debate, its doubtful that BBC Scotland would do this as they wouldnt get permission from the BBC in London. STV would probably like to do it, but lack of funds and problems in getting slot time from ITV would prevent them. Best bet, may be Channel 4, who like puting on something like this and perhaps Channel 5, because they will try anything.
Perhaps Im wrong and either BBC or STV will do it, hopefully at UK wide network level, alltough doubt that.
As for #50 Please check your history before spouting crap!

53

Callum,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 11:27:13

Scotland must look forward. We can't have a Labour party run Scotland again. Scotland must vote SNP in May. England will have a Tory Government Soon. Do Scotland want to be part off that?

Time to look forward Vote SNP

54

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 11:30:00

Harryc #62

Sorry I must have missed something here - who is calling people names in this article?

You appear to be another of the Labour-following sheep who would vote for them even they threatened to jail your family for breathing.

55

kameroon,

ned 07/01/2007 11:34:04

62-
you should get a medal for your bravery,another asshole who attacks the poor the weak and the pensioners

56

Harryc,

07/01/2007 11:39:12

That really sums up the SNP post #65, spouting all sorts of bizarre comments in a bid to portray Labour as some of evil horrible party, and themselves some sort of kind, loving, generous organisation. Labour shouldn't panic too much, Scotland isn't as overly populated by morons as it seems, so there's really no need to stress about losing power, contrary to popular belief.

57

Disgruntled of Dalgety,

Dalgety Bay 07/01/2007 11:41:15

With Jack the lad, that makes all of the labour heavy weights have had a pop at the SNP in the last month. The SNP must be doing something right to merit all of the attention that labour are heaping upon them. Getting scared lads?
As for playground mockery, have to bow to Jack's experiance there. After all it's not that long ago he was running one.

58

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 11:42:45

Harryc #67

Like Union Jack you evaded the point. You accuse Alex Salmond of 'calling people childish names' yet you only have to read the article above to see that it is Jack McConnell who is doing it, calling Alex Salmond 'snide' and 'sarcastic'.

59

Harryc,

07/01/2007 11:43:53

And #66 proves the point overwhemingly, that Nationalists really are high on something. I refuse to believe that a majority of my fellow countrymen are really this mad.

60

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 11:45:45

65. Craig S, Dalkeith /Well said , harry c is suffering the brain washed labour syndrom.
mCONnell is a waste of space,a wee numpty dictator.
Roll on may , kick the wee nyaff oot on his erse.

61

Harryc,

07/01/2007 11:49:23

erm sorry 69, but Jack's right, Salmond prefers to focus on calling people names and putting people down rather than focusing on what's wrong with thier policies and how he can wave his magic wand and make it better. It's what you call "scoring cheap points", I know SNP supporters are too thick to see through this, but hey.

62

Media 1,

cape town 07/01/2007 11:54:47

Imagine Alex Salmond running a country? What a total and utter disaster that would be.

For a start, the SNP DO NOT love Scotland, they simply hate England. That alone is reason enough to steer clear of them, thus preventing them from destroying Scotland.

63

ConcernedParent,

07/01/2007 12:02:08

I hope Blair finally keeps one of his promises and shows his face in Scotland(there's a first time for everything).

That can only be good for the SNP, and Scotland. We should never forget the mess Blair has led the UK into.

64

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 12:02:53

Media 1 #73

I am a member of the SNP. I know not one single fellow member who hates England. Generally also there is little anti-English sentiment in Scotland. But you wouldn't get that 'on the ground understanding' living so far away from Scotland.

65

Media 1,

cape town 07/01/2007 12:07:07

#75: Craig, I am only here for a few months a year, the rest of the time I live in Stockbridge..If the SNP ever get the ruling vote in Scotland I will move to England. I cannot permit myself to be governed by a party who base their entire political arguement on William Wallace, Robert the Bruce and FREEDOM!!

66

eric,

lothian 07/01/2007 12:12:12

Im changing from Labour to Snp,Simply because the state of NHS,My family in England will change from Labour to Tory,I dont care how much or what extremes labour go to down the Snp .Ill vote them even more ,

67

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 12:12:14

75. Craig S, Dalkeith / Well said.Just try and ignore madia 1,as most right minded folk do.
he is a ranter just like his god wee jackass.

68

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 12:19:37

McConnell's aides meanwhile said that Salmond would now be increasingly targeted in the run-up to the campaign as they seek to capitalise on what they see as his weakness as a statesman. Well this statement proves that labour are crapping themselves . Jack the cheating lying adulterer bring it on.

69

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 12:23:55

I have another problem with Labour - they spout almost as much disinformation as the Lib Dems. The SNP would not be the most popular party in Scotland (accoridng to recent polls) if they had no policy. Take a visit to the SNP website to see what the SNP proposes for an independent Scotland.

70

CJO,

Tunis and Kincardineshire 07/01/2007 12:24:37

Don't you love the grown up manner that our politicians choose to conduct themselves? Is it any wonder that the best their partisan supporters can do is come up with either like minded abuse, intolerance or mere negativity?

McConnell's little snide, playground mockery jibe and Alex "boil his Granny blue" (copyright A Salmond) Salmond's own personal history of pathetic personal abuse merely demonstrates that Scotland does not have the calibre of politicians it would need to lead it.

71

CJO,

Tunis and Kincardineshire 07/01/2007 12:29:10

#75 Craig - As for the "very little anti-English" sentiment in Scotland - are you serious? You have got to be having a laugh. Presumably you forget the 2 brave physical assaults perpretrated in Edinburgh against a 9 year old child and Aberdeen against a disabled man for wearing English football shirts in 2006?

72

Edward,

07/01/2007 12:29:35

#73 So from the comfort of Cape Town, who do you think should be running Scotland??

73

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 12:32:50

CJO #82

Assaults happen every day of the year in every corner of the land. The media (and Anne Begg) built this into something it was not. Most people saw right through it as being used to attack the nationalist agenda. The jakey who assaulted the 9 year old would have done it to someone that day. The England top was an excuse, as was the case in Aberdeen. I could cite numerous cases of similar things happening to people wearing Scotland tops in England but, funnily enough, they never make the news.

74

CAMackay,

Glasgow 07/01/2007 12:37:38

@73, Media 1: Wow! What an ignorant comment.

75

Media 1,

cape town 07/01/2007 12:43:14

Jack is the man..

76

CJO,

Tunis and Kincardineshire 07/01/2007 12:45:35

Craig, I lived in the South of England for 5 years and never, ever faced anything like the 2 pathetic attacks in scotland, nor the verbal abuse that english friends of mine, living and working in Aberdeen, experience on an all too regular basis when out for a night. Also, my wife is English and has experienced pathetic anti-English sentiment at of all places a toddlers club. The village idiots involved are unfortunately all too numerous.
Maybe this is not the case in the utopia that Dalkeith clearly is but it certainly is the case in Aberdeen.
For the record, the welcome I received when I moved to England and the inclusiveness of the village we lived in was an example to me of how things should be. Good natured craic when our respective countries were playing sport rather than the usual Scottish war cry of "Get into these English b4st4ds!"

77

Dave M,

07/01/2007 12:47:35

76

Yes, freedom is a terrible thing.

I have noticed that your comments are becoming more and more unreasoned.

78

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 12:49:14

Craig S # 83

I have been looking for weeks at the SNP website for policies. There are none, aspirations and assertions yes, but no specific costed policies. They have a pointer to a page called "Policy Archive," but again there are no policies just a phone number. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a premium rate number at £1.50 per minute.

I am glad that Jack McConnell has been following the debate on Scotish independence in these pages over the last few weeks. He has repeated my previous comments on smarmy Salmond, that he is snide, sarcastic and inexperienced.

In response to Rab # 79 I would just like to say that smarmy Salmond wouldn't be allowed to commit adultery in one of Edinburghs many brothels with a case of whisky under one arm and an English £100 note in his sticky mitt.
Proving that even the ladies in those establishments have their standards.

79

Dave M,

07/01/2007 12:50:56

87

Our Scottish village is very inclusive and, personally, I'm pleased that several English families have chosen to live here.

BTW, I lived in Aberdeen for several years and didn't find them particularily friendly either but I'm not sure that that is anything to do with the SNP.

80

Dave M,

07/01/2007 12:52:01

89 Jimmy

Hardly any hypocrisy of note there!

81

mr chips,

07/01/2007 12:54:52

87. CJO, Tunis and Kincardineshire / Get back on the subject, if your that concerned about the massive amount of abuse you say your missus and freinds suffered,
then call the police,rascial abuse is an offence, stop whinging on this forum.

82

mr chips,

07/01/2007 12:57:55

89. Jimmy The Hip,Youtnot making any sence , pal.

83

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 12:58:26

Dave M # 91

We Alecs pockets are stuffed full of English banknotes. He has been rumbled there, so now he is coming back here to introduce us to his brand of Utopia.

SNP Policy Archive = SNP Policy Black Hole.

84

mr chips,

07/01/2007 12:58:30

oops "your not".

85

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 13:03:57

#89 Jimmy the Hip re the SNP policy archive

You have to open the PDFs my friend

86

Dave M,

07/01/2007 13:05:40

94 I think you've been rumbled too!

96 Yes, people are fed up with being fooled by the Unionist parties.

Can a unionist poster name me one country that has become independent in the last 100 years that is crying out for help because no one will trade with it?

87

Neil,

9% Growth Party 07/01/2007 13:09:16

Point 6 is nonsense in that it confuses the UK's national debt at 40% with a required one year's borrowing at 10%.

The main article is a silly attack making no factual points except that Salmond hasn't previously run the country while Jack has - abysmally. Labour supporters make the SNP look good, unfortunately too many SNP supporters then return the favour.

88

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 13:12:49

Craig S # 97

If I was in charge of SNP policies I would hide them a few levels down inside the website too; inside PDF files. Why is clarity a problem?

It is rank hypocrisy to stand in a Westminster election and say a vote for the SNP is a vote for democracy.

89

Scotswahey,

Bellshill 07/01/2007 13:14:08

Scottish politicians are hell bent on further extending the meddling of the state in all aspects of our lives, encouraging a benefits dependancy culture, taxing the middle classes to record levels to finance it and the errosion of our industry and private enterprise. The majority of scots depend on the state to supplement or provide their income, therefore the votes will go to whoever pays out the most generous incapacity benefits and provides the countless thousands of cooncil workers with above market salaries, terms and conditions and pensions.

They're both a joke - I cant wait til Archie Stirling steps forward !

90

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 13:17:04

Jimmy the Hip #100

Some of the documents run to 40-odd pages. How do you propose they present them - as HTML? What a ridiculous way to try and put down a political party.

91

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 13:19:58

Craig # 102

40 odd pages of what Craig? From what I have seen of their content the manifestos could be condensed to 1.5 pages or 400 words each. Don't confuse volume with lucid thought.

92

Craig S,

Dalkeith 07/01/2007 13:22:41

Jimmy the Hip #103

The same could be said of Jack McConnell whenever he gives a television interview - um, er, eh, um, mmm, well, um, eh.

93

Micjonger,

A Scot in Cambridgeshire 07/01/2007 13:23:00

Salmond and his SNP followers are only trying to bring back the "glory" of Bannockburn and seek revenge for the '15 and '45.
The have no forward strategy, bar their own personal agenda; so why dont they come forward into the world of reality and give Scotland a chance with an alternative such as Liberal,Stirling or even Tory, all of which are free from celtic and nationalistic emotion.

94

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 13:35:17

Craig # 104

um, er, eh, um, mmm, well, um, eh I recommend "PDF Ripper" to view your SNP manifestos. It doesn't get rid of the waffle, but it makes it easier to skip over :-)

95

Blairs,

07/01/2007 13:36:00

#90 - Dave M - the post never said that the anyi-English sentiment is solely an SNP trait, they do like to play on it though. It is unfortuately a Scottish trait.

The English would generally welcome an independent Scotland. You can guarantee that the split of the territorial waters would be in accordance with international law and convention. Thus it would not be just a straight line out from the border at Berwick which I guess the SNP's figures assume. England would then have the government they want with Labour consigned to history and a significant amount of Central North Sea O&G revenue.

What then happens in Scotland only the Scottish electorate and the reduced hydrocarbons revenue would dictate.

The SNP should use the worst case scenario which may include Shetland voting to be part of Britain e.g. England and Wales.

96

mr chips,

07/01/2007 13:41:07

Jackboot calls the smoking ban a huge success. Pubs are closing,jobs are being lost.
Tobacco sales up. carry out alcohol sales up,
domestic violence up, all these were pointed out at the time, that they would increase under a non democratic forced ban but as usual wee bullyboy jack thinks he knows best, the man is a complete utter fool, sooner we are rid of this idiotic looser the better.He bad mouths salmond ,but has,nt the balls to have a debate face too face.
YOU are a chicken at heart jackboot,prove me wrong,,please.

97

mr chips,

07/01/2007 13:48:16

107. Alasdair / I wonder who it could be.

98

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 13:49:51

Mr Chips # 112

That is a ridiculous argument. Tobacco sales are up so domestic violence is up. How can that be Jack McConnells fault? You call sweet Jack a bullyboy; what about all the smokers battering their wives now?

99

jkr,

Lochwinnoch 07/01/2007 13:50:02

I am not a supporter of the SNP but I do think it would be a good thing if it was a different party from Westminster in control at Holyrood. Also we must get more tax powers. States in the USA have far more powers in every way and are still firmly part of the union.

100

Blairs,

07/01/2007 13:54:12

And another thing....

The SNP, if they were being honest, would admit that the initial stages of independence would be difficult to say the least and that no one truly knows what would happen. Also, they should admit the longer term future is even more clouded in doubt and obscurity. . Recognition that they would have to work in coalition with other parties needs also to be stated. It will not happen of course as this would require a political party to be honest.

After the May election, perhaps Scotland should be allowed to hold a referendum on independence anyway. Thus if there was a no vote, the whole thing could be put to bed. If there is a yes vote then move forward positively.

101

JG,

Fife 07/01/2007 13:57:34

I'm not keen on Jack McConnell but I have seen Alex Salmond on TV when he makes what he considers to be a smart remark. He DOES look "snide" and "sarcastic" and can be seen looking around, nodding his head to see if anyone else has noticed how clever he has been.

102

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 14:00:16

Mr Chips # 112

Easy read SNP manifesto for the General Election 2005.

"The SNP supports a ban on smoking in public places. But we need to give people who want to stop smoking help to do it."

103

,

07/01/2007 14:04:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
104

livilion,

07/01/2007 14:09:03

In today's Herald
""SNP plan to criminalise pro-Trident politicians
By Paul Hutcheon

AN SNP-LED Executive would put itself on a collision course with the UK government by criminalising ministers and civil servants who prepare the groundwork for using nuclear weapons based in Scotland.

Nationalist leader Alex Salmond has said he will back a bill as first minister which would thwart the renewal of the Trident missile system. He believes the measure will help make Holyrood the political centre for ridding Scotland of weapons of mass destruction.

The SNP's intentions will be spelled out on Tuesday when Nationalist MSP Michael Matheson begins the process of introducing anti-Trident legislation to the parliament.

continued...

He intends to launch a bill that will make it a criminal offence to plan for using any of the nuclear weapons stationed north of the Border.

It will be aimed at ministers "responsible for the preparations needed to use nuclear weapons based in Scotland" and officials in the Ministry of Defence.

But the bill will not apply to workers in the nuclear industry, whose rights the SNP are keen to safeguard..""

If it was ok to invade Iraq to get rid of WMD, let's hear Union Joke's argument for using Scottish based WMD.

That alone should put another nail in Union Joke's coffin

105

livilion,

07/01/2007 14:21:14

'Scottish Labour's fragile facade under threat from McLeish'
ANALYSIS
HAMISH MACDONELL
SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR

Scotsman 24th Feb 2004

""...Also, Mr McLeish exposed serious underlying problems which have the ability to cause long-term damage to the Scottish Labour Party.

The claims about sectarianism and factionalism are particularly damaging. "It should not matter if you are Catholic or Protestant - but in too many constituencies it does," Mr McLeish said.

He said there was a clique around those who had been to Glasgow University, and another from the west "which seemed to think it had some kind of hereditary right to control Scottish Labour".

The former first minister was referring to the "Lanarkshire mafia", the group of largely Celtic-supporting Labour MPs and MSPs who exert enormous power. The First Minister was an outsider, but gradually moved inside by taking over a Lanarkshire seat, moving to the area and going to Celtic games.

Mr McLeish revealed that he had fought constant battles. Sometimes with Mr McConnell, who, he claimed, tried to undermine him by briefing against him; sometimes with other Labour MSPs, and at other times with his Westminster "colleagues" who felt the new parliament had "undermined their position and curtailed their media exposure".

What Mr McLeish has done is expose the cosy unity Labour tries to portray in Scotland as nothing more than a front, erected to fool the public...""

Wee Union joke cites among his 'four achievements' as First minister the campaign against sectarianism.

Just makes me wonder.

106

mr chips,

07/01/2007 14:21:26

118. Jimmy The Hip,Stewart maxwell proposed it.
Jackboot forced it on the people, against public opinion, forcing smokers out of pubs and into the home to drink with no time limit [ie] last orders.
You choose ,like your master jackboot to ignore the facts and continue to spout utter dross.
Your posts are that of a labour activist, like labour policies they dont make sence and are lacking in substance. Alcoholism is also on the increase.
If you refuse to see the link , then you are a fool.

107

mr chips,

07/01/2007 14:24:00

119. ptdoug / Well said mate.

108

Stuart W,

Dundee 07/01/2007 14:43:01

Tweedle dum and tweedle dee.

Except on the Union, of course.

109

Scotswahey,

07/01/2007 14:47:12

What are the views out there on the tax burden we would be under in an independant Scotland ?

Personally I worry that the dependancy on the state in our contry will require heavy 'tax and spend' thereby forcing all the productive net contributors over the border or anywhere else with a less onerous tax regime ?

Any thoughts/comments ?

110

Jimmy The Hip,

SNP - Can't Find Their Policies 07/01/2007 14:49:40

mr chips # 122

I can tell from your liberal use of personal epithets that you are a supporter of smarmy Alec Salmond. Your insults are not smart enough to be sarcastic, but you are trying. I expect that you, in the short term, will be describing everyone who is not a supporter of the SNP as a Nazi.
I am no labour activist, I left the Labour party in 1992 at which point, judging by your mature writing and pithy comments, you had yet to start on solid food.
You are an example of why Scotland will not succeed with Salmond at the helm. Your views, as are those of your messiah, smarmy Salmond, are simplistic.
I know that you only have the courage to call someone a "fool" when they are at a great distance from you.

111

Ian C,

Fife 07/01/2007 14:51:15

PTdoug (119) has my vote. He is spot on. Why, according to Jack the Lad et al, is, Scotland the only country in the world incapable of ruling itself ?

OK. Alex Salmond can be seen as arrogant. Or he could just be confident. Christ, McConnell can't even talk ! He is an embarressment to Scotland. Dolly the Sheep would do better (dead or alive).

I would love to see Salmond and McConnell head to head in a TV debate but the latter hasn't the balls for it. It wouldn't be fish frying that night for sure.

I remember talking to Jim Sillars (then of the SNP _ the best Scottish Secy of State we never had !) in 1992 just before the election. He, being an ex Labour man, really opened my eyes as to how the Scottish Labour Party crucially depend on a large number of unemployed (and keep them unemployed) and low wage working class to keep them in power. It remains the same today.

Things are changing though. The Old Guard who keeping Labour in power in the UK are losing the confidence of the Scots. They have been shafted so often that they are starting to see the light. I look forward to a new sunrise in due course.

The only thing Jack has done which I congratulate him on is the smoking ban. Smokers will not agree with that but after years of misery it is great now. Only if my name was Fox, I'd be happy also !

112

Media 1,

cape town 07/01/2007 14:56:23

Freedom! hahahahaha

You would think Scotland was shackled.

The Union is Scotland's only hope for the future. Vote for the SNP and run the risk of losing Scotland forever.

113

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 15:04:21

Scotswahey # 125

The only ways in which the tax rate would go down in Salmonds Scotland is if productivity improved dramatically or public services and jobs were cut. Then unemployment would rise.
With 23.4 % of the working population in the public sector everyone knows of somebody who works there. Who do you want to see on the dole, apart from smarmy Salmond? What services do you want to see cut?

114

JG,

Fife 07/01/2007 15:08:53

#128 Media 1
This is becoming scary now! I agreed with you on quite a few of these boards last year and continue to do so this year! Am I ill?

115

livilion,

livingston 07/01/2007 15:09:24

BBC Newesnight Scotland
Wednesday, 22 November 2006, 20:52 GMT

First Minister, McConnell on 5 years in the job http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3662494.stm
(39 minutes)

See the looks of fear in Union Joke's eyes during this interview,
attempting to justify;
his achievements, or lack of them,
his poor showing up against Alex Salmond,
Iraq,
Labour's policy on renewing nuclear energy in Scotland
his 'unique' position on Trident, before being told what 'his position' was by Tony Bliar.
ie "Don't decide this issue until a full debate has been conducted"
Oh really?!

The SNP should save themselves some election funding and just use this for their May party election broadcasts.

116

livilion,

livingston 07/01/2007 15:14:17

130. JG, Fife
Yes

117

mr chips,

07/01/2007 15:16:45

126. Jimmy The Hip,Where did I say that I supported the snp?. You also called yourself a fool[not me] by refusing to see the link.
As for the rest of your guff, it belongs in the toilet
along side new labours nanny state bullying and failure to deliver on serious crime, health, education,
transport,and every thing else that they have half heartedly approached.
The party of soundbites and lies,youth crime up 85%
in jamiesons own area, and she has the brassneck to call it a success.
Labour are a joke.

118

livilion,

livingston 07/01/2007 15:17:00

"First Minister, McConnell on 5 years in the job"
Pardon the pun, I did not intend to refer to Wee Joke's extra-marital excursions.

119

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 15:20:54

Alasdair # 132

To say that Alec Salmond is smarmy is hardly a staggering observation. It is a personal assessment of an individual who purports to be leader in waiting of this country and is a conclusion of observations made over time, of his grating, ingratiating political manner. Let Salmond show us his true self and maybe the "smarmy" handle can be dropped;l likely for something more sinister.

120

thesmallerhalf,

West Lothian 07/01/2007 15:21:02

This story is no surprise as are most of the subsequent comments. Playing the man and not the ball is a time honoured practice in Scottish politics so why should we expect anything. And it precisely why Scottish politics tends to be provincial, petty and mediocre. I fear for the future should we be stupid enough to vote for independence. Can you imagine the consequences with virtually any of the current shower being properly in charge?

121

Scotswahey,

07/01/2007 15:30:19

Thanks Jimmy the Hip for your post.

I know quite a few people who report to the cooncil monday to Friday but from discussions with these folk, they certainly dont seem to do a lot of work.

I'd gladly see some of these malingerers have to go and get a proper job if it meant I had more disposable income. For sure !!

By cutting numbrs and reducing things like sickness absence which is way above national averages in the public sector (wonder why??)

122

Scotswahey,

07/01/2007 15:31:05

Thanks Jimmy the Hip for your post.

I know quite a few people who report to the cooncil monday to Friday but from discussions with these folk, they certainly dont seem to do a lot of work.

I'd gladly see some of these malingerers have to go and get a proper job if it meant I had more disposable income. For sure !!

By cutting numbrs and reducing things like sickness absence which is way above national averages in the public sector (wonder why??) significant savings could be made I'm certain.

123

Name,

07/01/2007 15:34:14

Reading some of the comments it looks like a lot of people here fantasize about sleeping with Alex Salmond and fondling his man boobs.

124

malcolmcean,

07/01/2007 15:41:42

I think that the level of sheer bitter-laced bile which our First Minister (who has demeaned his office by this silly and infantile personal attack) and others on here are directing towards Alex Salmond is really quite shocking.

It is fairly depressing that members and supporters of the currently largest party in Scotland are so petty and vicious.

Grow up.

125

JG,

Fife 07/01/2007 16:01:53

#143 Peter
What a greedy person this MSP is (whoever he was!). My thoughts were though, I doubt that the propensity to claim for every minor expense is limited only to Labour representatives - not if other topics on these pages are to be believed.

126

baroda,

spain 07/01/2007 16:02:06

MCONNELL WILL HAVE A FEW MORE TRIPS TO OTHER FAR FLUNG CORNERS OF THE WORLD AT THE TAXPAYERS EXPENSE. WHETHER IT BE THE LABOUR PARTY IN SCOLAND OR THE UK AS A WHOLE THEY ARE EVEN WORSE THAN THE TORIES FOR SPENDING MONEY THAT IS NOT THEIRS. THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ELECTED IN THE LABOUR PARTY SHOULD GO BACK TO RUNNING WORKING MENS CLUBS AND WORKING ON CRUISE LINERS AND THE LIKES BECAUSE ITS CLEAR THEY CANT RUN THE COUNTRY.

127

FGW,

China 07/01/2007 16:04:48

I sincerely hope Scots realise they could have it a lot lot better if they went for independence...instead of opting for South of England economic policy and also turning down the chance of our own oil revenues. Scots lack the courage to do what they should for their children and grand children, vote the SNP in so as to have a better conditions for their future and not be part of the brain drain out of Scotland.

128

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 16:09:35

Peter # 143

You'd better pass the name of this MSP onto Alec Salmond so he can call in the police.

Alec Salmond is going to encourage 600,000 exiled Scots to come home to work. He's also going to encourage the 30,000 that leave every year to stay.
Where is he going to put them to live and where are they all going to work? What will that do to the average wage in Scotland, bearing in mind that most left for better prospects in the first place?
The words "fairytale" and "economics" come instantly to mind.

129

,

07/01/2007 16:10:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
130

mr chips,

07/01/2007 16:10:52

141. malcolmcean .Labour dont have a manifiesto they have a hate campaign. This is only the start. Just wait till he [JOKE] starts his driveling rubbish during first mincers questions.
Scotland and her people will have to be put on the back burner whilst jack continue,s to try and save his skin by slagging the opposition at every oppertunity.
Quite pathetic really.

131

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 16:13:11

Just bite the bullet and vote tory scotland - it is the only way to get rid of these snivelling little socialists who are ruining our country.

LIB/LAB/SNP their all promoting the same Cr@p: Everything for nothing, 'power to the people' they cry (as if they actually mean it!), large flacid inefficient goverment and the end of personal freedom ...

Tax, ban, spend and pass a stupid law - the average day for a 'lefty' MSP ... we can stop this in May ... let's poke'em in the eye!

132

HarryArgyll,

07/01/2007 16:15:28

Bottom line is IF WE NEED TO BE TOLD HOW WELL LABOUR ARE DOING IN ALL THAT THEY HAVE DONE IN THE PAST THEN THEY HAVE LOST.

We the people need to feel things are better otherwise they are talking a lot of sh*te.

Hospitals: oh doing great we still give tea at 6am.

Education: oh again we still have teachers so all ok

Police: well brilliant we have more but no prisons yet but it is all part of our long term (25 year) plan.

Roads: well some still have tar on them (excluding Loch Lomondside) but then that has always been a sh*t bit of road and nobody else done anything about it so there.

Transport (other) ah well who needs it we have cars eh.

Sh*te Sh*te Sh*te and more Sh*te

SNP please get rid of this Sh*te

133

JG,

Fife 07/01/2007 16:17:42

#147 Peter
It really came as no surprise when Willie Rennie was voted in in preference to the Labour candidate in the West Fife area. I know people were not wholly impressed by Henry McLeish, but I haven't heard many people (well, none - to be exact!!) applauding the performance of his successor!!!!

134

Prinzowhales,

North Carolina 07/01/2007 16:20:52

If Joke, B-liar and Brown are "statesmen"... need I say more? Mr. Alex Salmond would be a refreshing change...someone who would stand for Scotland rather than for London.

135

mr chips,

07/01/2007 16:42:55

50. Rulesbutnotrulers, East Lothian /Are you drunk?.

136

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 16:43:58

ptdoug # 150

What about the 600,000 Salmond wants to bring home, can we talk about that too? He talks in bigger numbers than the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Peter # 156

I have not promoted any Labour policies. I happen to think that Salmond is a hypocrite and on the make. He like you went away to make his money, but, he went to the UK parliament that he detests. Now having feathered his nest he wants to come back.
Why doesn't he resign his Westminster seat and concentrate fully on his attempts to be first minister in Scotland? I suspect that he does not have enough faith in himself and is worried about all the "ninety minute patriots" that he fears populate this country; he wants to hedge his bets. He's a betting man after all!

137

IainA,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 16:48:24

#47 Ian G

Unfortunately a lot of people in Scotland vote labour from pure reflex. We have seen, time and time again, a degree of incompetence coupled with an arrogance that takes your breath away, both in central and local government, yet we keep re-electing them. The labour apparatchiks and spin doctors must think we're all idiots - and if we keep returning them to power, I suppose we must be.

I don't know whether the Lib-Dems, SNP, or any other party would be better than labour, but then they've never had the chance to prove themselves.

I for one won't be voting labour this election, despite having left wing principles. I'm fed up with being patronised, nannied and taken for a mug.

Mind you, I won't be voting SSP or solidarity either - I'm more of the Tankie persuasion than the Trot.

138

Real kilts,

edinburgh 07/01/2007 17:11:37

Joke Ma -connell what an arse hole like the rest of labour English A lickers

139

Neil,

9% Growth Party 07/01/2007 17:19:09

Peter 106 said
"Neil - like Joke you seem to be good at being snide but do you really consider the status quo is sustainable and good for Scotland?"

Whatever faults I may be accused of wanting the status quo is not one of them.

If you want details of programmes far more radical & sensible than anything from the main parties see
http://9percentgrowth.blogspot.com/

My point was the opposite - that Labour & SLD are indeed useless but that most supporters of the SNP also use reliance on Miss Lydia Pinkham's marvelous elixer called Independence as a substitute for thought.

140

IainA,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 17:20:33

To use a biblical metaphor, has anyone noticed the similarity between Pontius Pilate and Jack McConnell?

Pontius and Jack both have a problem recognising truth, and they both have a habit of washing their hands of things.

Mind you, I don't thjink Jack's had anybody nailed to a tree. He's just savaged a few reputations.

141

HIS,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 17:32:54

Personally, I'm still waiting for Jimmy the Hip's response to #150. It was a good while ago.

142

Media 1,

cape town 07/01/2007 17:33:59

The SNP supporters and their esteemed fool of a leader Salmond should rent a wee Island in the Hebrides and leave the rest of Scotland to continue as part of the greatest Union on Earth.

143

Craig S,

07/01/2007 17:38:36

165 media1

So how do you explain the fact that, according to numerous recent polls, the majority, both north and south of the border, want to leave it.

144

Media 1,

cape town 07/01/2007 17:43:32

Craig: Let see what the polls deliver in a few months shall we san!

145

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 17:48:39

160. Rulesbutnotrulers, East Lothian/ At what point does scotland ask england if she can be part of the union. 48 greedy bastard mp,s,
hardly represent the scottish people.
http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/Scotland-History/Act...

146

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 17:50:01

HIS # 164

i don't know what I'm supposed to answer, I'm not here to defend, or otherwise Labours record. In addition ,the question is unclear whether it is meant nationally or in the Scottish Parliament.
I asked a question earlier about Salmond's intention to attract home 600,000 expat Scots and it has been studiously ignored. In that respect I have another question. Within what timescale is Alec Salmond going to attract home that number of expat Scots? Is this miracle to be contrived in his first hundred days or it another 1000 year plan?

147

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/01/2007 17:57:51

#8. Yes. It is time for a change - vote for No Labour in May. McConnell's job is to keep Scotland down.

Bumped (Literally) into Salmond in a shop in Linlithgow a few years back and any doubts I had about his smugness were dispelled. It is just a mannerism. He exudes honesty and humility.

Worked in a bar years ago and had to serve all sorts at conference time. The most arrogant were the Labour Party and the STUC. The most courteous were the SNP and, would you believe it, the Tories.

Well, I've had experience of McConnell's experience and it nothing for me except make me vote No Labour in May.

148

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 17:58:59

170. Jimmy The Hip / What part of labour govmts record in scotland, dont you understand.
Are you trying a jack mconnell responce to a simple question. Dont answer it and hope it will go away.

149

HIS,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 18:04:43

#170
Jimmy - the question at #150 was-
"Anyway...Jimmy...what do you say regarding Labours record of government in Scotland"

I think this is quite clear that you were being asked about Scotland.
And BTW answering a question with a question is very Labour.

150

HIS,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 18:09:47

Jimmy
2 hours and we're still waiting...

151

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/01/2007 18:11:59

Oh. I feel a song coming on

152

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 18:14:52

rab, glasgow # 172

You must admit # 150 is a bit of rambling wreck, as I said I am not here to defend or otherwise Labours record. I am interested in the intentions of the smarmy pretender as he seems to have a lot of people here conned. I think as so many are anxious not to be conned again his intentions should be explained, so rab the floor is yours.
Why not start with the question of Salmonds six hundred thousand?

153

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 18:18:27

176. Jimmy The Hip /Another body swerve, are you sure your not jack?.Keep it coming jimmy,
you are like the labour party , good for a laugh.

154

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 18:18:55

SILL WAITING.

155

Harryc,

Tranent 07/01/2007 18:20:30

Is the Scotsman website some sort of haven for scrounging chavs who view Alex Salmond as some sort of Scottish saviour? I mean, I know I'll prob get my house torched for speaking out here, but hey this is a democracy and I'll say it. The SNP have no sophisticated arguments as to why independence is the way forward, all it is "awwww it's all London's fault" and constant references to Ireland. And Mr Salmond, if I want to move abroad at any point in my life, I WILL do it, I'm not staying just satisfy your Braveheart fantasies.

156

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/01/2007 18:21:34

Written before devolution but what's changed?
Do I not see a land so full of food and energy
Where people cannot heat their homes and live in poverty?
What do you with our wealth, you sir, you Scottish Secretary
Do you take it down to London to your master's coterie?

What say you, Shadow Cabinet, in our 11th hour?
Do you peddle hope to the Scottish vote to help you into power?
Are you more concerned as party men with promising careers
Than you are for the people you call your own when election time draws near?

Are these the benefits of the union?
Is this worth thruppence in the pound?
What are the benefits of a union that keeps its people down?

157

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 18:25:07

rab # 179

I sense an impasse.
I can't speak for Labour, that would require me to arrogate to myself the powers of Jack McConnell; I'm way too humble for that.
You on the other hand have the opportunity to express what you think your illustrious leader, wee Eck, could do for Scotland. I'm sure there is much you want to say, so, let's start with the 600,000 he wants to attract back to Scotland and take it from there. I'll bet the first in the queue will be Sean Connery...

158

HIS,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 18:25:26

#180
"The SNP have no sophisticated arguments"
Well "scrounging chavs" or "get my house torched" or "Braveheart fantasies" isn't much of one either.

159

eric,

Lothian 07/01/2007 18:28:31

Im changing from Labour to Snp .The NHS is non existant Ive had 1st hand experience of it ,Nothing what Labour says about the SNP will ever change my mind,Bad Gvt Time to Move them on.

160

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 18:30:47

Richard # 182

Forget Salmond's character then, judge the facts. He takes a living, a very good living plus pension from an entity that he professes to despise; Westminster. He has not stated that he will resign his seat there while he campaigns to be first minister in Scotland.
Yeah, his character is not an issue???

161

HIS,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 18:30:54

#183
Jimmy
We live in a democracy with universal suffrage and freedom of speech. You are allowed to have an opinion of Labour!

162

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/01/2007 18:31:32

I've got a ticket for the Hootsman debate between Sturgeon and Alexander on the union. Anyone else going?

163

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 18:47:32

HIS # 188

Labour in Scotland are crap, but so is the alternative, as a result of the restricted nature of the parliament.
Labour in the UK is a different issue, but most is clouded by subjective judgements on the disastrous situation in Iraq. If Iraq hadn't happened judgements on the Labour government would be much more benign. Where would the tories be in the polls without Iraq? Not ahead anyway.

164

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/01/2007 18:52:41

#190. You say Labour in Scotland is crap. That must be due to personal experience. How can you tell that that the allternative is crap it you have never experienced it?

165

davieboy144,

07/01/2007 19:05:15

#191,

Do yuo really believe that the SNP will melt away if (God ourbid) that we ever vote for independence.

Do you think that wee Eck & Nicola will join the Lib Dems or the SSP. Stop talking rot.

166

HIS,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 19:10:22

#190
Thanks for your reply. I agree Labour are crap, but I wouldn't restrict that view to Scotland. There's more wrong with Labour at Westminster than the Iraq war, though that is the 'biggie'.

167

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 19:21:00

183. Jimmy The Hip .I have never said wee eck is my leader. Still waiting.

168

davieboy144,

07/01/2007 19:28:34

198

You care about independence but you do not care what happens after it. so if it becomes an economic backwater that will be OK because we are an indepentant country, or is it just the English that you dont like.

Are you another narrow-minded parochial halfwit who ddefines themself by how much they dislike someone.

169

Jimmy The Hip,

07/01/2007 19:31:09

rab # 200

See you same time tomorrow then.

170

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 07/01/2007 19:33:31

Jimmy The Hip Have they let you out for the weekend? Your rants indicate a mentality of zero and you must be one the brain dead Labour apparatchiks who believe Jack the Lad and Tony BLiar are the good guys. To denigrate Alex Salmond in the way you have in these posts shows what little you know of the man. In a debate between the two, Salmond would be faced by the threat of a dead sheep and as MACConnell well knows, being the son of a shepherd from Glenscoradale in Arran, dead sheep stink and give life to maggots all around them. If you want s#'t on your face choose a real minnow. The Labour party is full of them. You really are a nasty piece of humanity but we can expect that from the lower lives in some political parties.

171

Tommy Grondlund,

07/01/2007 19:34:43

Alex Salmond is fairly entertaining and would wipe the floor with poor old Jack in a live debate. But then I don't want the economic future of Scotland decided by who has the best one-liners.

I'm no fan of McConnell or the Tories either, but they are not as bad as the SNP and their dangerously emotive soundbite politics. My favourite memory of SNP tactics is probably when I left a screening of Braveheart (during it's opening week) to be greeted by a group of SNP activists handing out leaflets outside the cinema.

172

,

07/01/2007 19:56:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
173

Harryc,

07/01/2007 20:13:15

Oh I see Mr Smarty Pants Richard, just because I don't agree with your childish party's little agenda that London is to blame for all of Scotland's ills and that we're a carbon copy of Ireland and Norway in the waiting, means I'm uneducated? Please, your the typical Nationalist, anyone who disagrees who with your views is either subjected to childish name-calling or put-downs, and you'll do anything to cover up what you really stand for. What McConnell says in this article here is 100% correct, Alex Salmond reminds me of a tough man playground bully who torments the first person who dares to challenge him, and if he gets into power, I am seriously considering emigrating, it's the last thing this country needs really.

174

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 07/01/2007 20:22:33

#207, Harryc. So I suppose Labour is only lining up all the big guns against Salmond because they are the goodies?

How many against one would that be?

175

sjs,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 20:24:31

Interesting comments here.

The general trend towards realisation of the lies being fed to Scotland and the increasing desire for independence is great news. I hope this feeling lasts down to May.

The more Labour attack the SNP, the more desperate Labour are beginning to look. What we want laid before us a strong debate for the current Union, and what we have to benefit from it. Instead of being thrown the "you can't do it alone, you're only Scotland" crap. I mean let's be serious, did anyone hear Gordon Brown's speech? About how many these days have relatives down south? And as if we won't be able to visit them if the we break away? It is a crackpot argument!

And why are they in England now? Because they left. Because England has opportunities it denies Scotland to have itself. England stripped us of our royal family in 1604. The intellects around the court - musicians, poets etc, went down with it. And our grandest palaces fell into utter decay (see Linlithgow and Falkland. Holyrood subsequently restored by Victorians). And they stripped us of our parliament in 1707.

Scotland is a ghost of a real country. The question is do you want to revive Scotland, or do you want it to decay further? See debates on Trident, nuclear power, and oil if you do, and vote Labour. For the rest of us with any remaining Scottish pride, vote SNP.

176

Stef,

edinburgh 07/01/2007 20:24:46

Jack McConnell suggests, that it was a tough decision and a great asset to himself having 'implemented the smoking ban'. If robbing adults of their freedoms of choice is seen as his greatest achievement, God help us. Nearly a hundred pubs shut with more too follow soon, Bingo Halls and many other social amenities now bancrupted on a basis of lies and deceit. Communities destroyed and redundant workers. Does he mention his encouraging heavy drinking and smoking in the home environment as another of his great achievements? He and his cronies have become richer whilst the social divides are wider than they have ever been. As for his record regarding Hospitals and waiting lists, the public are well aware after 5 years that this is just another of McConnells cons, in fact there is no joy in the knowledge that hospitals are filthier than ever and people afraid to use them for fear of contracting MRSA and a host of other diseases. Like many people I am disgusted with our politicians, Alex Salmond has not promised the electorate with anything better than what we have already received. Perhaps the Scottish people should seek to find candidates in their areas who are representing 'them' and their constituencies as opposed to this party politics founded on 'spin' and self interest. There is not anyone in that parliament can call themselves a 'Statesman' from the public perception.

177

sjs,

Edinburgh 07/01/2007 20:28:38

And before anyone fixes my mistakes... I just want to say I noticed them and won't fix them at all. I'll jus say...

NB: Falkland has since been "half" restored by Victorians - half wreck. In case anyone noticed that.

NB: Scotland does have a rich tradition of music and poetry despite loss of royal court - which was the original magnet for intellects. What the benefits of monarchy are nowadays is debatable.

Does anyone want to keep the British royal family?

178

Craig S,

07/01/2007 20:35:07

No, a complete anachronism with no benefits of any sort.

179

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 20:36:07

207. Harryc /Why is joke mcnumpty scared to have a debate with salmond?,is it because he [jackass]
recognises the fact that wee eck would make him look even more stupid and childish than he has made himself look with his pathetic personal attacks on the man in this article. Joke should put up or shut up,but he wont , he is a typical new labour loud mouth no mark. I feel sorry for the sad wee labourites who like to brown nose this peice of garbage.

180

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 07/01/2007 20:42:28

Harry C #207 If you truly believe a word MCConnell says then when you decide to emigrate after May send me your address and I will contribute to your passage. We will be well rid of you with truncated views like that. The man is a blustering mouthpiece who never answers a question and with his advantage at First Minister's questions (a classic oxymoron) can only spew out irrelevant political points that bear no reality with the subject under discussion.

181

davieboy144,

07/01/2007 20:44:42

205

It is precisly attitudes like yours that will ensure that I would never vote for independence,

Quisling, self-hating, drone, troll.

Its this level of intolerance of other people who have a different viewpoint from yourself that would make Ian Paisley feel penitent absolutely saddens me.

182

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 21:00:09

216. davieboy144 / If post 205 has swayed you not to vote for independence then my freind you are too easily influenced and should not be allowed an adult opinion as you spit your dummy oot too readily.Dont waste your vote man.

183

Eve,

Scotland 07/01/2007 21:31:37

Jack McConnell, We'll miss him come May 2007, unless the people of North Lanarkshire vote for him once again because he's done such a wonderfull job with closesing one part of one hospital in one area which demonstrates how good labours polices are towards health of the people of Scotland and with a lovely job in the education frount which is, what I've heard is the Number 1 topic at the coming elections. I personaly think that it is a big maske to concentrate on education when Scotlands biggist problem is health (Us Scots need to lose this sick man of Europe tag, We've had it to long).

Things we'll all miss about Jack when he's no longer 1st minster....

No need to laugh at the Scotlands Frist minster,
Nomore jokes about McConnell,
HMM, um, can't think anymore maybe thats it......

Oh well at least we have the halleruos merroys to tell our future genurations about Scotlands 3rd 1st minster.

184

Robbie,

07/01/2007 21:35:12

Just a question as I truly do not know the answer but some of you pundits may, do any of the other small independent European nations have anything like the Scottish emigration rate.
Scotland’s population when I was a wee laddie was about 5million and I believe hasn’t changed much.
I’d ask all the Unionist to explain why so many Scots continue (often the most highly-trained) to leave?

185

Andrew Mc,

07/01/2007 21:35:49

I found this hilarious from Jack McConnell. Your time is up. He just lost all respect. Must be Nat-basher aka former communist now Tory John Reid writing his stuff. They will be an independent Scotland and Jack will be sitting in the House of Lords along with his pals Maggie Thatcher.

186

Robbie,

NZ 07/01/2007 21:47:32

8. Colkitto YES
Won't be able to hear it here and worse if it happened would not even hear about it.

187

JoeNeill,

Melbourne, Australia 07/01/2007 21:53:27

Time to go McConnell! Time to go Labour! Time to wake up and smell the coffee Scotland! Grab the chance or continue to live in the shadow of England and all that comes with it.
I was forced to leave a land I loved because my countrymen were too gutless to go it alone. I would love to return , but, only to a truly independent Scotland. Never again will I suffer like I did under the tories and Maggie Thatcher and who can forget the treachory of the Labour Party over the Poll Tax!!

188

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:05:46

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk

Anyone interested in joining me outside the Scottish Labour Spring Conference - please get in touch

jeff@scottishmail.co.uk

189

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 22:17:26

226. Richard, west lothian /A phone box in north lanarkshire, bring yer ain boatle of buckie.

190

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:19:48

I am trying to find details out right now

Seems it is

Labour Spring Conference
Event date: 16 February 2007 - 18 February 2007
Location: Glasgow

191

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:20:28

same dates as SNP and in same city...

FIGHT !!!! (lol lol)

192

Eve,

Scotland 07/01/2007 22:21:24

#225. JEFF: Was that conference No cancelled a few mounths back due to poor labours poorly bank balance. Or have they found more people to buy perreges, so this confernces is going ahead.

IS Tony Blair goiney be their, Adam (useless) Ingram and (not in my constuties) Dr Reid.

Think I'll stay at hame (Wach a bit of telly)

How Many conference does the Labour party Need!!!! Are they try to borre us in to voteing for them (I don't think this techneque has been used in the past, possible cause it doesney work that way.)

193

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 22:22:21

Jackass is brinin a case of tennents, one of freebie gifts.

194

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:29:08

They will def. hae a gathering in Scotland this Spring in an attempt to boost their dying (same say dead) popularity.

Will call communist HQ tomorrow and ask!

195

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 22:30:03

231. Richard, west lothian / Cheers mate,

196

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:32:11

Come along and join oor poster van and heckling - had one in Dundee in 2005 (or was it 06?!!!)

it was great - aboot 300 folk set seige to the Caird Hall and made the experience very unpleasant for them all. Ingram got cornered by aboot 20 veterans in the shopping centre wie his wife. Foulkes did a runner .. and the place erupted when Grimer Wormtongue - Blair appeared at a side entrance - he could not use the main approach (City Square) ..

Police enjoyed in to - they seemed to hate Blair and co as much as we did!!

197

morris,

edinburgh 07/01/2007 22:34:14

180 Must be Harry Cairney surely?East Lothian Labour Party.
Read the McCrone Report Harry.Then apologise to every single scot if you knew about it,or just plead stupidity if you did not.We WILL belive you Harry!

198

Eve,

Scotland 07/01/2007 22:44:05

#235. JEFF: You've seen Adam (useless MP) Ingram. I've never seen him and I grew up in his constitutce.

That explains a lot he'd rather be else where that the towns that he's sapose to be repersenting.

In Dundee in 2005 (I belive it was, I know some one who saw Tony then, she didn't know if it was good thing or not)

199

Keren,

07/01/2007 22:46:05

I am pretty sure Labour's Conference has been cancelled - they held one in Oban in December instead.

200

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:47:53

Ingram is a very arrogant, intolerant creature ....

201

Soon to be returnee,

various 07/01/2007 22:55:16

Hypothetical question: IF the SNP get a majority in the election, and IF Scotland goes fully independant what will happen to the tax rates? Will the SNP introduce a flat personnal and company tax rate like so many other small nations (and Russia!) are doing? Will they adopt European tax codes like the 180 day rule? Yes, I do have a vested interest in this! At the moment a lot of friends work out of Scotland and they spend an additional 3 months away to avoid having to pay tax. This is a strain on their families, but also they spend money abroad rather than at home. If the SNP adopt the 180 day rule, they still wouldn't get tax but at least the money these people spend abroad would be spent in Scotland, and their families would be a lot happier too. Of course, if a flat tax rate was introduced with no 'get outs' that would be equally good as I am sure that they wouldnt mind paying 10 - 18% and not have to worry about days in the country.

What are other peoples opinions of flat tax rates? Please try to keep your answers constructive rather than the usual semi-literate drivel I have been reading in these posts of late.

202

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... 07/01/2007 22:58:14

#240

"Please try to keep your answers constructive rather than the usual semi-literate drivel I have been reading in these posts of late."

Hmmmm ... talk about making yourself unpopular by introduction ....

203

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... http://www.r-o-a-r.org/ 07/01/2007 22:59:39

Would love to stay and chat more - but gotta get rest for the beginning of another week ;-)

Night everyone

204

Soon to be returnee,

various 07/01/2007 23:03:53

#241: I am not seeking to make myself popular, I am just asking for peoples constructive views on the subject - if they think it's viable or not, benificial or detrimental.

205

Alistair Stewart,

IT'S TIME ..... http://www.r-o-a-r.org/ 07/01/2007 23:08:25

#243

OK let me S P E L L I T O U T

Basic manners and not such an arrogant, condescending post (get it

206

rab, glasgow,

07/01/2007 23:11:13

243. Soon to be returnee, various / You should not introduce yourself by slagging other posters.
As you are more likely to be ignored.
Especialy as your 2cd post is as sarcastic as your first. good night .

207

Harryc,

07/01/2007 23:27:28

Richard, I'm afraid YOU'RE the one who needs to get educated, as do all supporters of this dangerous party. Don't murder me for this claymore-wielding, saltire tattooed Nationalists, as this is just my opinion, but too many people are stuck in Braveheart William Wallace days here. This is 2007, the 21st Century. People like Wallace are insignificant now, we are British as well as Scottish. And when you say "oh Westminster's policies are wrong blah blah" you really have no clue what your on about, so please quit trying to sound intelligent, it's just not working.

208

Eve,

Scotland 07/01/2007 23:37:21

#248. Harryc: Most people in Scotland want to be knowen as Scottish 1st and foremost and most of them don't want this Bririttish label, which is furmly written on their passport and when they vist over countrie particularly ones in other continents they ask you daft question like where in England are you from when looking at a passport which has Glasgow clearly written as the place of Brith. (you've yet to expence this I gess by your comment)

I Wouldn't say any thing that happen in the past as insignificant as I'd proble be wroung.

Though the union is possible becoming more insignificant with every word the unionst speak.

209

Soon to be returnee,

07/01/2007 23:37:55

I apologise if my post seemed sarcastic, it was not my intention. I was only seeking considered views on the tax system in an independant Scotland.

Obviously my opinion is that a flat tax rate is more efficient than a sliding scale system. What are others views on this?

210

,

07/01/2007 23:55:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
211

rab, glasgow,

08/01/2007 00:01:48

252. Richard, west lothian /Aye, good on you, give harryc an
education, education, education.

248. Harryc / do yourself a favour and please read this information.
It might give you a new out look on the truth.

212

Blairs,

Tunisia 08/01/2007 00:11:28

In answer to 221 it is quite simple really:

Taxes and of course the fact that Scotland is being lined up to be run as a new Soviet. Sorry but for me that is a non-starter.

Why should I work to support a load of work shy layabouts that vote themselves bigger expoenses and more benefits whilst plundering and beggaring the pension funds. Answer, I wont.

State funded Mugabesque land grabs are just the tip of the ice berg. Scotland is run and ruined by the Central belt soley for their benefit. If you live in Aberdeen where indenpendent Scotland's wealth will be generated can you expect the same investment in healthcare as everyone else. Answer, no. You get less presumably it is assumed the people there can all afford to go private.

Personally, I would be happy enough for Scotland to be independent if it wasn't being run down on a mickey mouse socialist agenda.

213

Blairs,

Tunisia 08/01/2007 00:22:09

In answer to 240 - Flat tax rate fine if it is set at the right level. The main conversation of expats working abroad is where will we finish up because the regime in UK and potentially an independent Scotland is not attractive.

As for strain on families, tell me about it. That said, I dont intend the sacrifces my family & I have made, as our choice, to be chiselled by socialism. All out Brothers!

Tunisia imports all its oil; price of fuel is about £30 per tank for an average family car. If we fill up at "home" we are nearer £70. Direct tax, stealth tax and a massive government induced pension deficit are real and absolute barriers in the UK and potentially Scotland to generation of wealth and a feel good factor.

214

Blairs,

Tunisia 08/01/2007 00:25:50

Richard, are you telling me the SNP aren't working a socialist agenda?

The references to the bigger expenses and benefits/work shy lay abouts is directed purely at the Scottish Executive, the second biggest waste of UK public funds after the Iraq war.

215

Royster,

08/01/2007 00:31:05

Let's try and take the English/Scottish emotion out of this and look at this dispassionately. Assume an American state wanted independence from the US, which one would resemble Scotland the most and how well would it fare outside the US? How about Alaska (small population and oil), or Maine? Any ideas? Would that state be better off without the varied economy of the rest of the US to support it over the long-term? Don't forget, the 4 most populous states (NY, California, Florida and Texas) would have to represent England. For the record, Crude oil continues its trend downwards after the spectacular rises of the past couple of years (now at $56.31) Any ideas? Would it be Alaska, Maine, Mississippi?

216

Blairs,

Tunisia 08/01/2007 00:31:06

Sorry made a currency mistake in 258, it cost 30 dinars to fill up in Tunis, in other words just under £15 given the banks penchant for £1.50 per transaction.

Also, Richard, delighted to hear that the SNP do not support the use of national funds, Lotto or anything else, to forec people to sell their privately owned land.

217

mr chips,

08/01/2007 00:37:18

260. Royster /what are you smokin you on man?

218

mr chips,

08/01/2007 00:37:51

wit

219

Blairs,

Tunisia 08/01/2007 00:53:07

Richard - how do the SNP propose to produce electricity, without using fossil fuels if they will not countenance nuclear power? More wind turbines or as yet unprovem/undiscovered alternatives?

Biofuels perhaps, coppicing and burning the hideous pine woods all over Scotland in wood powered stations producing more CO2, wave power, hot air from the Executive, burning all the politicians expense claims?

As I said, I have no problem with independence, I just have a problem with high tax, governmental control and jobs for the boys via the local political system which is all we ever see these days.

220

mr chips,

08/01/2007 01:07:13

267. Richard, west lothian /Brilliant,

221

Blairs,

Tunisia 08/01/2007 01:21:41

Re-gassification of coal is not new. When I worked for a drilling company we looked at it as an alternative revenue stream. There are problems with it. Also, with BP's current environmental reputation (Prudoe Bay, CTB pipeline, etc) I would be careful holding them up as champions of the World.

You don't mine the coal you do drill it which of course produces waste, where do the drill cuttings go, skip and ship, re-injection ? How do you generate the heat to make re-gassification possible? There are draw backs to all forms of power generation.

What about the socialist agenda and the publicly funded land grab?

I'll get back to you tomorrow as I am a wee bit ahead on the clock than yourself and have to make my contribution to someone else's economy in the morning. Cheers.

Out of curiosity how much is the new power station producing and why was its opening not trumpeted round the World as a saviour?

222

Robbie,

08/01/2007 02:11:55

260. Royster / 12:31am 8 Jan 2007
Hi Royster - just looking at you analogy, “Let's try and take the English/Scottish emotion out of this and look at this dispassionately. Assume an American state wanted independence from the US…..
Don’t know if it works. All US citizens consider themselves that - Americans. England often considers England and UK synonymous. If the USA was given the epithet of the biggest and richest state, ie., California then there may be a disgruntled feeling. If all over the world people said California when they meant the USA and if you came from Texas but were called a Californian (as if it meant the same) or if in a quiz the ‘Stars and Stripes’ was named as the flag of California and was judged correct; again dissatisfaction among other states (perhaps emotional) might occur. If (a big if ) at the Union the names England, Scotland and Wales had disappeared or at least become accepted as mere regions and all had now been Britain things might have been different. However England kept its name and also that of Britain and the UK in the eyes of themselves and the world while Scotland and Wales were taken as regions of this England/Britain. Just a thought. Remember it’s not only about economics. It’s about forging a future in a sovereign land.

223

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 08/01/2007 05:20:24

If Jack McConnell is truly representative of the Scottish people then you Scots are an undignified bunch of spineless maggots.

However, I have been to Scotland and found that you were all very nice. Well, all except for the bus drivers in Edinburgh.

You have to ask what the point of personal attacks on any politician is. The point is, when you have achieved nothing yourself, and can’t find anything to attack in the opposing parties policies, then you have no option but to start with the personal attacks on the leader.

I read Mr. McConnell's speech as a stark admission that Alex Salmond is offering the Scottish people a better option than what he has.

When the Prime Minister (why do you call him First Minister; it is daft when Prime Minister is the accepted term around the world!!!) starts throwing about personal attacks, it is time for people to wake up, smell the coffee and vote for the guy who is being attacked.

224

Mr Thai Land,

Bangkok 08/01/2007 05:56:20

158 - Jimmy the Hip

You really have got to be joking with that comment. It certainly made me laugh once I had taken a few moments to digest it all.

Why would anyone who wants to feather their nest, join a party that is marginalised by the establishment? No-one in the SNP is ever likely to be offered lucrative Non Executive Directorships and other advisory positions with big business.

It is the Labour Party and Conservatives that play that game. The Lib Dems try to engage in it too but are recognised for their wooly personalities.

If you want to get rich from politics, you join the Labour Party or the Conservative party and fight your way into an MP or MSP slot and then try to weasel yourself into a Mininsterial role by attaching yourself to the right caucus within the party. It really is that simple.

With regard to Salmond, I can only assume that you have checked the register of members interests at Westminster and gathered the evidence that shows that Salmond is indeed feathering his nest?

Is he on a par with William Hague, a failed leader who now makes £1 million a year from "consultancy"? Or perhaps he is being paid a few hundred thousand by some defence contractor? Or maybe his wife is busy furthering her financial interests through her association with the leader of the opposition party?

Clearly the evidence you have on Alex Salmond's activities outwith Parliament is what has made you so angry. You should share it with the rest of the voters so that they can get equally as angry and keep him out of office.

As for me, I cannot vote on Scottish matters, but am interested to find out if you have some hard evidence to support your anger and disgust at Salmond or if you are, in effect, no better than Jack McConnell and his pathetic election tactics.

Politicians who have nothing credible to say to the people are the ones who should be treated with contempt. It is Mr McConnell that people

225

Royster,

08/01/2007 06:23:27

#272. That's a different argument and has more to do with education. Other countries have this problem Holland when strictly speaking it should be the Netherlands and Switzerland (the German name Schweiz is based on the canton of Schwyz). Actually it should be the Helvitic Confederation or something like that. Many people in Scotland, however, do look at economic arguments. They have a stake in society, they are free and they certainly don't feel the current constitutional arrangement is so poor that it needs to be changed radically with independence and the uncertainty it brings.

226

Robbie,

New Zealander, Kiwi or exiled Scot not Aussie 08/01/2007 07:00:10

275. Royster / 6:23am 8 Jan 2007
“…has more to do with education.” Yes but who’s to do the education. The Scots are not in a great position to do so. In three hundred years neither Westminster, the English education system nor the ‘British’ media thought the error worth correcting. As a Scot living in Germany I really had to struggle not to have Engländer on my bank account, Aufenthaltserlaubnis (residence permit) or Arbeitsserlaubnis (work permit). Eventually they accepted Schotte in brackets. Don’t know if one needs this now as it was in the 1960s pre UK entrance to the then Common Market or whatever. I was not in a position as a young adventurer to educate all of Germany. What amazes me that even now despite the EU, continentals cannot fathom the UK. Understandable now that I read the southern English can’t either.
Your examples Royster of the Netherlands are good but still whatever other people call the people from the Netherlands (in English - Dutch; in German = Holländer) they know themselves as one sovereign people.
Most Swiss I’ve met call themselves just that ‘Swiss’ so perhaps as they also know exactly who they are, they’re just polite to foreigners. It would be like us not correcting people calling us English. Interesting as there was civil war and strife in both of your examples.

227

Scott 'Ola' Foam,

In Aberdeen 08/01/2007 07:04:37

OOoo Wee Union Jack is having a tantrum is he not, then again Scotland would be best served by Tony Blairs oops Browns School Teaching lap dog.

Maybe he was given some stick in the playground when he was a school teacher.

228

Craig Russell,

08/01/2007 07:42:42

I think The SNP are a bunch of Anti Englisd Racists, thats all that motivates them, there policies are so backward, there designed for 1970 and their leader is an obnoxious nutter

229

Scott 'Ola' Foam,

In Aberdeen 08/01/2007 07:50:44

#278 I do believe Craig that our dear friends south of the Border tried to breed out our culture and outlawed all intrests that defined us as being Scots.

It would be a bit like me coming into your home shagging your wife and taking away your cricket bat and morice dancinf equipment.

You wouldn't be happy would you, therefore we would just prefer to keep it Scottish and not British being the PC term for English.

230

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2007 09:25:10

270. Blairs, Tunisia

Two ways to extract the energy from hydrocarbons.
Coal, natural gas, oil or even peat.
Using Carbon Capture Systems CCS.
Scotland currently sits on 200-300years of coal reserves in the Forth Basin alone, abandoned in the 80's for political reasons.

1)drill two shafts into the seam.
inject oxygen down one shaft and burn the coal, extract the energy up the other, using the heat to produce steam to drive electricity generator turbines.
No need for men to go underground anymore.
When those shafts are exhausted just plug them move along and open another pair.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3984387.stm
2)heat the coal, etc, to gasify it. Split the gas into hydrogen and carbondioxide, easily done on the surface.
Use the waste co2 to repressurise your oil fields (like fitting a sparklet bulb to a sodastream)to extend their work life as BP are now doing with their Miller field.

These techniques also permits energy from coal fields far out under the north sea to be accessed safely from shore, using technology developed for oil drilling.
http://www.peterheadhydrogenpower.com/go/doc/1141/116400/

Use the hydrogen as a clean burn fuel to drive your power stations such as the new BP station at Peterhead.
http://www.peterheadhydrogenpower.com/go/doc/1141/119911/

Peterhead power station is the first industrial sized hydrogen fuelled station in the world producing enough power to supply three cities the size of Glasgow and saving as much co2 emmissions as produced by 400,000 cars.

As such Scotland leads the world in this clean fuel technology.

Hydrogen fuel cells will in future be used to run everything whi

231

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2007 09:42:16

This technology has been trumpeted but for some reason the media have failed as yet to grasp it's significance.

Hydrogen fuel cells are the answer to the question of what to do about the unreliability of renewable fuel sources such as wind power, as demonstrated in Unst.

They are also the answer to our addiction to the internal combustion engine.

Use the free energy from the environment to convert water or air into hydrogen and carbon dioxide, capture the CO2 and sell it to the oil companies to pipe it underground into oil and gas producing rock strata to enable the 60% of reserves previously unwinnable, and reduce the nations output of greenhouse gases.
ie a no-brainer.

The only exhaust from a hydrogen system is water.

232

Scotsman in Dublin,

08/01/2007 11:32:37

"Labour turns guns on Salmond", what a laugh, Labour dont have any guns big enough! For all the debate on the relative merits of both men here is the summary.

Jack: Supports Scotlands rule by another country.
Alex: Supports Scotland running its own affairs.

233

Scott 'Ola' Foam,

In Aberdeen 08/01/2007 11:48:16

Wee Union Jack and the rest of British Tory labour should turn their guns on themselves, pull the trigger and do us all a favour.

234

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2007 11:58:54

275. Royster
I'm wondering if you might help me.

I'm looking for a country which gained it's independence from a larger neighbour only to go back later and say they'd changed their minds as independence was going to work out more expensive.

Or perhaps a nation who looked at the option of independence and said nah, it's going to cost too much.

I can only think of the Republic of Texas which seceded from the newly independent Spanish colony of Mexico, only to join the United States of America about 9 years later under military threat from Presidente Santa Anna.

235

Joe M.,

08/01/2007 13:31:43

The usual tactic from 'New Labour' throw some mud and hope it sticks. Salmond would flatten McConnell in any debate and McConnell knows it.

This is desperate stuf and reflects the fact that Labour have no good arguments for union and are being blown away by the SNP's positive arguments for independence.

236

Craig S,

08/01/2007 13:34:29

#278 Craig Russell

"thats all that motivates them"
"there designed for 1970"

Check out our education policies, they might help with your grammar!

237

mr chips,

08/01/2007 14:13:31

286. Joe M. / Quite correct, joke knows wee eck would rip him to peices, that is why joke will only call him names through a unionist rag like the scotsman.It really is pathetic stuff from numpty jackass, does he think by calling someone names then running away like a scared rabbit when challenged to a face to face will gain him votes.

238

Pernickity,

08/01/2007 14:48:29

278 - what nonsense you talk.

It is sad that not a single person who supports the Union can make a case FOR the Union. All they can do is tell lies as you do by accusing the SNP of being rabidly anti English.

That is a total lie which you cannot substantiate in any way.

You are just throwing mud in the hope that some sticks.

How sad to see this kind of tawdry gutter politics at this stage of the campaign. It makes you wonder just how low people are going to sink in theie efforts to keep their snouts in the Westminster trough.

239

fiferjohn,

benbecula 08/01/2007 17:55:19

they can only attack salmon because they and the tories before them have been lying and hiding the true facts from the scottish people .it's about time there was a live debate with all the facts and let the people decide. ten to one they will end up playing the be loyal the the royal family card as i think they will lose on any fiscal and policy score.

240

Robbie,

NZ 08/01/2007 19:28:22

43. Mini Mitch
"Scotland and Ireland both benefited more from any involvement in the Empire than we suffered."
Can you Mitch or anyone name any European country that lost a greater percentage of its population (especially Ireland) through forced emigration, economic voluntary emigration and death by starvation (again Ireland - during famine)

241

Robbie,

NZ 08/01/2007 19:29:45

291. Robbie, NZ
Sorry folks wrong forum.
Got confused (age) after 'Scotsman' link crashed over here.

242

Robbie,

NZ 08/01/2007 19:49:24

285. Livilion
Hi Livilon - Not sure but wasn’t the main reason for Texas wishing to join the USA was to enable it to continue slavery which Mexico had abolished in 1829 and threaten to abolish in Texas if it was reunited with the ‘motherland.’ Texas’ history has bee romanticised and somewhat falsified. Slavery was a big issue.
No slavery issue and Texas might have remained independent.

243

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2007 21:47:29

293. Robbie, NZ
Cheers Robbie
So it wasn't being independent was too expensive for them, then?

Ah well, just need to wait for Royster to come up with the answer in that case.

btw he's gone quiet, on another forum or something?

Can any other Unionists maybe help?


 

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