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BNP imports candidates to qualify for TV adverts

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Published Date:
08 April 2007
THE BNP has recruited nearly half its Holyrood candidates from England so that they qualify for a free political broadcast on national television.
At least 14 of the BNP's 32 candidates standing in next month's elections live south of the Border - but have Scottish sounding names.

Among those canvassing will be five regional party organisers, while another, fighting in the Highlands and Isl
ands, will also be involved in a simultaneous by-election campaign 625 miles away in Berkshire.

Gerry Gable, editor of anti-fascist magazine Searchlight, said the BNP's approach to the elections is not surprising.

He said: "They did the same thing in Wales previously. They could not rally enough support there, so they asked for people living outside the country but with Welsh-sounding names to get in touch.

"They had also had a fundraising group specifically for the campaign in Wales, but that was based in Humberside."

Among the candidates in the Highlands and Islands region for the Scottish parliament elections is Roger Robertson, a south-east England organiser. The Lothians sees Sadie Graham from the East Midlands and Tim Rait, who unsuccessfully stood in Maidenhead in the 2005 general election. Mid Scotland and Fife has Michaela MacKenzie, who stood in Warwickshire North two years ago. Meanwhile, the West of Scotland region has Kevin Scott, north-east of England regional organiser.

The election fight between Labour and the SNP has dominated the run-up to this year's Scottish elections, but critics of the BNP fear this could play right into the hands of Nick Griffin's party.

Recently, the BNP has been trying to raise its profile in the North East of Scotland, a move which critics claim is in direct response to the influx of migrant Eastern European workers there.

But because of its traditional lack of support in Scotland, the party has had to rethink its strategy for next month's Holyrood challenge.

Among the methods that it has adopted is the creation of an organisation called 'Scottish Heritage', which the party describes as its "election fund".

By using the name, the BNP has been able to hire various venues without disclosing the reality of who is behind it.

Several hotels in Glasgow and Edinburgh are believed to have allowed the party to hold fundraising events booked under this name recently.

The strategy was cited as an illustration of the BNP acting deviously to try to maintain a place in "mainstream" politics.

Gable added: "Using a name such as 'Scottish Heritage' is a classic smokescreen for them.

"They known that no-one wants to be associated with such an organisation, so the only way they can get round it is to fudge the issue."

A senior official of the union, Unison, said this was an attempt by the BNP to appear "more Scottish" to the electorate.

The official, who asked to remain anonymous, added:

"People can see the BNP for what they are ... it is precisely why they are having to 'import' people from down south, because they do not have the support necessary here.

"It does not surprise me that they are doing this, because they are topping up their electoral list so they qualify for the TV time.

"These people have no chance of winning and they know that, but they are just here to make up the numbers."

But Kenny Smith, the BNP's secretary in Scotland, defended the party's decision to "import" candidates from England.

He said:

"We are fielding candidates in each region to get the TV broadcast. We are standing 32 candidates and we have to take in candidates from down south to make the threshold and meet the requirements.

"It is not unlike what UKIP or other parties do. After all, we are a British party."

Smith claimed the fact that English-based candidates had Scottish-sounding names was a coincidence. He described Scottish Heritage as a "legitimate fundraising organisation".



Page 1 of 1

 
1

Ted,

07/04/2007 23:29:31

Go home, and take your fascist front organisations with you.

2

JT fae Cardiff,

07/04/2007 23:56:37

at least one thing we can agree on here be it SNP, LibDem, Labour, Tory, Green, SSP, or Solidarity - the BNP are nothing more than a disgusting organisation which will be used as nothing more than a protest vote if they're lucky.

BNP - Back down south. Not wanted here.

3

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 00:30:06

I've never supported the BNP but I think that in a free country they have the right to stand for election as long as they follow all the rules. A lot of people are worried about immigration so it would be interesting to hear what their solution was.
I've heard lots of English voices in the Scottish Parliament so all the other parties must be carpet bagging aswell. That Mary Scanlon of the Tories seems to get around the country a bit trying to get on the MSP gravy train.

4

bobwmac,

Stirlingshire 08/04/2007 00:34:43

I welcome the BNP presence in Scotland, I hope they put up as many candidates as they can and spend a lot of money on their campaign.

They will be ignored by all apart from the rump of the bigots who still tarnish Rangers Football Club and those sour faced idiots with sashes who cause traffic jams.

SNP, LibDem, Labour, Tory, Independent, Green, SSP, or Solidarity will debate, argue and... probably indulge in some traditional mud slinging, but all will abide with the results when the votes are counted.

5

JT fae Cardiff,

08/04/2007 00:36:56

#4

You're right. It's a free country and they have every right to spout their garbage (until it crosses over to inciting racial tension which then is illegal)

But I'm afraid unless you've been living under a rock the past few years there's no point listening to what they have to say in case it's sensible or vote-worthy - you just know it isn't.

Thugs trying to play at politics. No better than Hitler's "National Socialists" - and they're not afraid to show it.

6

The Daleks,

08/04/2007 00:45:42

Given that the BNP are a properly constituted, legal political party, they have every right to spout as much guff as Labour and the Tories.

You might not like the message, but all of the parties are entitled to their tuppenceworth.

7

JT fae Cardiff,

08/04/2007 00:50:31

I have already admitted that #7.

I'm just giving my view on thier drivel and in fairness we all know that at best they'll get used as a protest vote.

If they win a seat i'll eat my hat.

8

JT fae Cardiff,

08/04/2007 01:17:47

you did no such thing - they're a disease and they're trying to spread.

of course they hopefully wont succeed - either side of the border.

9

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 01:32:00

8 #JT fae Cardiff
I read that they've already won a lot of council seats in England. What's your hat made of ?

10

JT fae Cardiff,

08/04/2007 01:37:28

i'm aware of this, in areas of existing religious and racial tension which they successully exploited for thier own means.

would that really translate into votes for MSPs in regions without this tension for them to capitalise on?

11

JT fae Cardiff,

08/04/2007 01:39:59

im aware of my spellimg mistakes btw. its late anf i'm tired. damn.

12

,

08/04/2007 02:36:54
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13

somerferg,

oz 08/04/2007 03:33:40

Numpties to a man/woman. Send them packing on May3rd.

14

waywoodwind 1,

england 08/04/2007 07:28:35

Have the B.N.P. broke any rules

Have any of you anti-B.N.P. read their policies I have then joined them

Do any Scottish or Welsh people stand in an English election?

It is still a democracy with free speech

Scotland doesn’t need the English but Britain needs the B.N.P.

15

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 08/04/2007 07:37:47

And I thought Tony Blair and his jack-booted lieutenant Gordon Brown had already swamped Scotland with candidates.

16

donald,

weegieland 08/04/2007 07:40:25

They are just playing the same game as the rest of the British Nationalist Parties.

17

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 08:08:17

No 18 You are a fascist and a racists and I long for the day when the BNP shows its face in Scotland so we can smash them, like we did in Glasgow before and like we will always do whenever fascits raise their ugly heads.

Never again shall we allow this to happen. Never again shall people we subjected to persecution becasue of the colour of ther skin or the god they choose to worship.

18

Green Arrow,

South Wales 08/04/2007 08:12:11

I spend many years living in Scotland whilst serving on board Fishery Protection vessels.

When I saw the Aberdeen fishing fleet sail of to the breakers yard and the steel industry vanish in Wales, I realised we must get exit the European union. Only the British National Party says what it means and means what it says.

I urge you to visit their web site and read the letters page. Just do not blindly close your minds.

19

Alex.,

08/04/2007 08:16:30

#21. If you don't like a party's policies you simply don't vote for them. Talk of smashing your opposition just shows that you are as violent and extreme as the BNP but at the other end of the spectrum. Communism has failed.

20

Gallon,

Glasgow 08/04/2007 08:23:12

Firstly, most of our politicians in Westminster are Scottish.. Blair Brown Reid etc.
Moreover the BNP is the British National Party not the SNP we want Scotland to stay as part of the UK.
Can one also point out that the SNP and Liberals are going to donate 9 billion of YOUR money to poor foreign countries whilst poor Scottsh Pensioners starve. That information was in all the the newspapers yesterday.
Lastly, Glasgow and Edinburgh are being swamped with immigrants faster than anywhere in the UK openly backed by the SNP, Liberals and Labour. If you don't take action now you won't have a Scotland !

21

Chuck.U.Farley,

08/04/2007 08:25:21

I,am coming to f*ck yo sista wit me big black d*ck

22

Boy Wonder,

08/04/2007 08:26:41

The BNP have a right to stand for election, even if every sane and rational person knows them for what they are and rightly despises them. May they lose every penny of their deposits and learn from it that Scotland does NOT accept their bigotted and hate-based drivel!!

And I look forward to seeing what they will unfurl, if not the greatly derided Unionist flag.

23

Ted,

08/04/2007 08:27:07

So this story has gone round the fascist mailing lists.

"Say you're from Glasgow, that'll make it more persuasive."

"Use 'swamped' a lot. That's the best way of sowing division and hatred."

I don't agree with violence, but some have said it's the only language neo-nazis understand.

24

Chuck.U.Farley,

08/04/2007 08:47:27

Yaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnn
Where are the regular posters on this one ,the hang em and flog em brigade? their rantings would put even the facists to shame.

25

CATHOLIC GEORGE,

glasgow 08/04/2007 08:50:26

Were getting swamped with immigrants ,and if the snp get power it will get worse,at least jacks gonna rethink the whole issue,i wont be voting the bnp but ill still wish em luck

26

Young Ken frae Newcastle,

08/04/2007 08:53:23

What utter rubbish and misinformation from that convicted burglar Gerry Gable. In his haste to lie and smear the BNP he did not even check simple facts.

For instance the Kevin Scott in the West of Scotland is not the same Kevin Scott and former North East organiser he mentions - so much for his wealth of up to date information. It seems that he just makes up what he does not know.

Gable has shown himself and his biased and flawed communist Searchlight organisation for what they really are – LIARS

Several newspapers have paid out in libel cases after printing incorrect information supplied by Gable in the past.

The real reason Gerry hates the BNP with a such a vengeance - is that they stand in the way of the communist revolution that he and his cronies still believe will happen in Britain one day.

27

wayne bijlyeerheid,

08/04/2007 08:55:40

#5
What right do you have linking the BNP to Rangers?
Doubtless you think Sinn Fein are a moderate
un-race related party.
You are nothing but a sectarian with no agenda but hatred.

28

,

08/04/2007 09:07:11
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29

James M,

Central Scotland 08/04/2007 09:13:47

They will certainly get MY protest vote and I hope that they do well. The usual crowd of Scottish parties are all just different versions of the same beastie.

30

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 09:19:16

The BNP are a far right opportunist party who take advantage of peoples fears on immigration to stir up hatred against anyone not British, although they do support their fellow organisations mainly in countries dominated by white people. They have a fair number of supporters who might be termed as "lumpen proleretariat" but are trying to look respectable within the election system to win more "ordinary" supporters disollusioned with the way New Labour tackles multiculturism and immigration. There is a tension within the ranks of the BNP between their desire to be recognised as a mainstream respectable party with their undoubted far right following and this will cause problems for them in the near future and will likely cause splits. They have probably peaked in England and are hoping for gains in Scotland but these will be few. They need to be opposed ever time they raise their ugly nazi heads.

31

Encephalon,

08/04/2007 09:25:25

#5 If you want to start introducing football bigotry into the debate you should do a bit of research first-the old adage about people in glass-houses not throwing stones comes to mind.

Er -What did you do in the war Holy Father ring any bells -numptie!

32

Encephalon,

08/04/2007 09:32:42

#30 "while in Scotland the Scottish will be the minority in their own country. Scotland will be a crime ridden sewer ruled by politically correct policies and inhabited by every race on planet Earth. "

Much of that is already true-but the BNP is not the answer. But after reading posts from uber-fascists like Leon in HK who advocates violence (while living in that bastion of liberal democracy and human-rights that is China-H-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e=Leon ) I can imagine the attraction.

33

,

08/04/2007 09:40:04
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34

,

08/04/2007 10:09:35
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Reason:
35

Miss Jean Brodie,

08/04/2007 10:10:39

Britian is dead - Long live the seperate nations !

36

drake's drum,

North Britain 08/04/2007 10:17:19

JT fae Cardiff - looks like you're the fascist to me.

37

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 10:27:15

If the German left had united and the social democrats not woried about the capturing of votes then we would not have had Hitler or the second world war.

When the NSP was a small group of thugs (like the BNP now) then should have beed smashed. The people of Germany stood back and said they weren't a threat, that they were German and could rescue them from the worst ravages of post war economic disaster. They stood back, the left fought among themselves, the Social Democrats passed racist laws and Hitler marched to power.

It is your choice, smash them now or sufer at their hands. It is not enough to igmore them!

Remember what Pastor Martin Niemölle said!!

38

,

08/04/2007 10:29:39
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39

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 10:46:24

Stand up to the racist thugs now. No return to anti sematism, racism, murder of millions of people who were not racially pure, the gypsies, the infirm, the menatlly ill, socialist, trade unionists, catholics, communists.

Smash the BNP smash the racist thugs.

40

Cant use my name anymore-Alex,

Prisoner of the machine 08/04/2007 10:49:23

No 30 and No 40

Just what makes a person Scottish in your view. I have a name that most would not describe as remotely Scottish, but I was born here, brought up here and feel as Scottish as kilts and haggis. The bagpipes bring a tear to my eye, I support Scotland in every sporting event, IM SCOTTISH TO THE CORE OF MY BEING, but if you only had my name to go by I somehow doubt you would think so.
The BNP and its supporters are narrow minded clowns.

41

Itchy,

08/04/2007 10:55:49

#39 The German Left was totalitarian and had the same basic ideas as Hitler, who was, after all, a National Socialist. Hitler merely substituted race for class and that was all that differentiated him from the communists.

If every person in the UK was white, anglo-saxon and protestant, the BNP would still wreck the country as they are a socialist party.

42

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 10:56:40
43

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 10:58:41

number 43 boll...

if you do not know the difference between national socialism and socialism then you are either a sorry creature or a fascists yourself

44

Moody,

08/04/2007 11:03:35

no 30, agree with you mate, this left wing political correctness that we have foisted upon us needs to be addressed urgently.

You can even see that some of the commenters in here are being PC with their comments.

45

Truth Finder,

08/04/2007 11:04:00

Like it or not liberals, with no choice at the ballot box between competing centrists the BNP are very relevant in 2007.

46

williamx,

Delta, Canada 08/04/2007 11:06:22

The amazing thing is that there is no requirement that candidates be domiciled in Scotland for positions in a Scottish devolved parliament. Oh I forgot, Scotland is not a nation so anybody world wide can stand for the position. Any American or Canadian domiciled candidates arrived yet? The Americans would definitely consider it against US interests for Scotland to exit from the Union. Reminds me of the time when a Catholic priest on a one year sabbatical at St Andrews University organised the removal of the University Communist party in the early 1950s.

47

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 11:09:52

Hey sc.m...s No 30 46

I am not PC me and thousands of Scots are waiting for you to hold your first publiic meeting. Looking forward to that one!

48

SDC,

Glasgow 08/04/2007 11:11:40

Alex 42, exactly the point I was going to make- I was born and brought up in Scotland, I support Independence, i'm concerned about how Scotland does as a country, and i want to see what's best for my country...

However, if i go through my family tree, i've got Scottish, English, Irish and Danish blood. Both my parents are English. But i love being Scottish and don't care too much about what goes on in England.

So what are the BNP to do with me?

Immigration is nothing new and people have moved around for centuries.

Gallon. You sir, are a retard. We need immigrants in our cities because they help our economy grow. Also, we need them becuase our birth rates are so low that in a few years time there will be too many pensioners and not enough people funding them in work. They are working for your pension.

I really can't understand people how see immigration as a bad thing...

49

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 11:15:53

#43 Itchy - wrong, wrong, wrong. There are plenty of books on the failure of social democracy in the 1920's -30's and the rise of facism as a result of the betrayal of the 2nd International. I suggest you go and read some of them as well as www.marxist.com - Also the support given to the facists by Britain ( Churchill was once a great supporter and admirer of hitler) and the USA in order to prevent the spread of Bolshevism was a major boast to Hitler before 1939. In fact the British gave support to Francoin 1936 against the popular front which also helped Hitler to go to war. Socialists are totally opposed to facism which is why Rosa Luxembourg was murdered by the Friecorps, a developing facist organisation in 1918, and Hitler ordered the exucution of socialists and trade unionists as they were a danger to fascism.

50

The Daleks,

08/04/2007 11:27:01

#49 (et al) Leon.

Your venom filled, violence preaching e-mails, don't really do your cause much good old chap.

After your out-pourings, do you really think that you still hold the moral high ground?

51

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 11:34:46

N0 52

Whose interested in morals? I'm only intersted in fighting fascism.

52

,

08/04/2007 11:38:11
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53

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 11:39:50

While I am at it, as for venom. I'm with the Jews, Gypsies, Greeks and Russians, everybody who experienced the full thrust of fascism. I'm with their memories and their venom.

54

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 11:49:56

NO 53

and that is exactly why your message fails to hit home with the free thinkers.
"Smash the Fash" is an 80's catch phrase and still serves its purpose with angst (and acne ridden) students and anarchists.
The"fash" however is increasingly the ordinary working/middle class man on the sreet watching the news with increasing alarm and seeing that some of our citizens want to kill us!
Can this be true, our tolerant liberal brethern ask as they watch cartoon protests, death to the Pope and Undercover Mosques?
Surely not here in Britain?

On the subject of "smashing the Fash" I'm sure Leon you have done sterling work i those energetic rally's and are a dab hand with a placard and felt pen, sometimes though its wise to listen, watch, and if all else fails....pretend to have morals.

55

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 11:52:01

NO 55

All things to all men eh?
Politics is full of such chancers. Go find an original thought.....while its still legal?

56

Biker,

ayr 08/04/2007 11:56:29

Gallon #40 What a load of old Bo####cks. get off your high horse and actually try going about your business in glasgow. It's a fair minded and egalitarian city. Asian gangs and funded by Labour, what planet are you from?

57

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 12:08:03

It is Biker, just dont go biking in Polockshields of an evening, only four of the "Shielders" got locked up...the rest are untouchable.

Searchlight and UAF frequently help the BBC with programmes "exposing" the Far Right (and have resulted in lots of damages being paid out through rather "creative" allegations) Labour councillers such as Phil Woolas deify them.

The Left, though far from being brotherly to anyone not on message do have a common cause in ensuring that Right Wing views never see the light of day.
This is why unions seek to expel BNP supporters from holding jobs in the public sector, they are introduced as "extreme Right Wing" if given air time and generally villified in the media.

If it happened abroad they would be championed as political dissidents persecuted by the State.

58

Mart DownUnder,

Sydney 08/04/2007 12:08:21

Unfortunately, there are (a minority I hope) of Scots who are extremely rascist, and the mere mention of England or English, brings out vitriolic abuse and ugly rascist rantings against them. I wonder if some of these same people are denouncing BNP for rascism. Quite ironic, don't you think?

They seem just as bad as the BNP to me

Anyway, these candidates should be allowed to stand, and let democracy be the judge of them at the ballot box

59

WHISTLEBLOWER,

08/04/2007 12:12:01

Not unusual, many small socialist groups, such as Scargill's party have done this in the past.

I hate to say it, but they may find fertile territory in Greater Glasgow amongst the bigoted end of Protestant Unionism, and there are certain people now living in the north of Scotland called "White Flighters" who have moved there to escape ethnic diversity in parts of England.

60

Leon,

Hong Kong 08/04/2007 12:12:24

The message is the same.

Never again shall we allow any race or religion or any people of any colour be oppressed. Incarcerated, forced to labour against their will. Used as human guines pigs and their children gassed and their bodies burned.

The ghosts of 6 million Jews demand we never forget.

61

dixon,

glasgow 08/04/2007 12:18:19

Gallon, you have come out with the usual sweeping statements about Glasgow."We are being swamped" "Asian gangs rule the streets" "Islamification will be complete". Utter garbage and you know it.
Ethnic minorities only make up a tiny percentage of
Glasgow's population.The asian community is non-existent outside of parts of the West End and a stretch of the Southside from Cessnock to Govanhill.
Do you really think asian gangs are running amok in the East End?Huge swathes of the city are virtually 100% white.
My experience on Glasgow buses is that asylum-seekers who get on in the Gorbals sit quietly with their kids minding their own business, while the real violence which I've witnessed always comes from white neds.If we are going to deport anyone, let's start with them.I won't miss them.

62

South East Organiser,

Hampshire 08/04/2007 12:18:29

How uninformed your correspondents are!
My wife was born in Aberdeen, my family are from Huntly and Rhynie, I have not been in Inverness since last Tuesday, (5 days ago) and my father lives in Banff during the summer months.
Having got my credentials out of the way, please drive up the East Coast from Dundee to Inverness and weep. Weep for the lost communities, weep for the people without work and hope, weep for the children without a future. Get angry with the politicians for giving our fishing away, get angry with the politicians for importing people to take what little work there is for the locals. Get angry with the politicans for destroying the most beautiful land on earth with their short sighted policies and lack of caring.
I was speaking with my wife's 86 year old aunt at her house in Elgin on Monday and it was so sad to hear how the communities used to be and just to look around and see what we have now. The centre of Elgin has been destroyed by Tesco on one side of town and Asda on the other.
She was telling me about the 'fishers' and how proud and superstitious they were. Her family had a shop and when times were hard the 'fishers' always had credit and they were never once let down. Every debt was always paid when the fish arrived.
In Church this morning I prayed that we could help bring these communities back to life and bring hope to the people.
This is where we, the BNP, are coming from.
We are not selling out our country, our people, our land to foriegn owners, to global capitalists or to speculators. The land was forged by our ancestors and we hold it in trust for our children and our childrens children and may it ever be so.

63

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 12:20:07

Calm down Leon, the BNP are with you on that dont get hysterical and muddy the waters.

Why do we have "white flighters" in Scotland Whistleblower? Do they know something we dont?
Perhaps they were "enriched" out of house and home?

I have no problem with immigrants settling in Scotland embracing our culture and freedoms. Hostile divisive cultures who refuse to integrate yet infiltrate politics and Law, that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

64

dixon,

glasgow 08/04/2007 12:22:12

Gallon, you have come out with the usual sweeping statements about Glasgow."We are being swamped" "Asian gangs rule the streets" "Islamification will be complete". Utter garbage and you know it.
Ethnic minorities only make up a tiny percentage of
Glasgow's population.The asian community is non-existent outside of parts of the West End and a stretch of the Southside from Cessnock to Govanhill.
Do you really think asian gangs are running amok in the East End?Huge swathes of the city are virtually 100% white.
My experience on Glasgow buses is that asylum-seekers who get on in the Gorbals sit quietly with their kids minding their own business, while the real violence which I've witnessed always comes from white neds.If we are going to deport anyone, let's start with them.I won't miss them.

65

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 12:23:42

Their immigration policies are absolutely disgusting. But if you think a BNP government would not affect white people, then you are sadly mistaken.

One of their policies was to re-introduce COMPULSORY national service. Conscientious objectors and pacifists would have their right to vote removed.

I guess I would not longer be able to vote against a government I disagreed with if they got into power. They talk of wanting to defend British democracy - pray tell, how is it democratic to prevent those from disagreeing with you from voting you out?

66

Itchy,

08/04/2007 12:28:32

#45 and #51

"if you do not know the difference between national socialism and socialism then you are either a sorry creature or a fascists yourself"

I am a supporter of capitalism and Hitler was a socialist. Lefties like you don't like it when this is pointed out. Oh and the Russians also invaded Poland in 1939 and had a non-aggression pact with Hitler. And the communists killed many more than Hitler and Mussolini did.

" Socialists are totally opposed to facism which is why Rosa Luxembourg was murdered by the Friecorps, a developing facist organisation in 1918, and Hitler ordered the exucution of socialists and trade unionists as they were a danger to fascism."

Socialists want an omnipotent state, as do the Fascists and National Socialists. They differ only cosmetically.

And I don't need to read Marxist sites. Marxism is rationalized pig ignorance and theft and has been refuted in theory many times. It has also failed in Russia, Cuba, Zimbabwe, North Korea, etc. And 30 million Chinese died during Mao's 'Great Leap Forward.

67

Itchy,

08/04/2007 12:29:54

#64 "We are not selling out our country, our people, our land to foriegn owners, to global capitalists or to speculators. The land was forged by our ancestors and we hold it in trust for our children and our childrens children and may it ever be so."

Proof that the BNP is anti-capitalist.

68

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 12:35:56

You have an unalienable right not to vote for them if you feel that way Colin, but lets have a level playing field so that all their policies see the light of day?

This is a marvellous thread and fair play to the Scotsman for allowing it, many papers dont allow mention of the BNP at all.

The party has many fine policies on the Peak Oil Crisis, Farming and Rural affairs (close to my heart)
Immigration and national service are but small parts of their policies.

It may be unpalatable to certain sections of the Socialist/Liberal/Popular Peoples Front but immigration and the effects of it on the landscape and public services is a hot topic with the electorate.

Because of Political Correctness and people like Comrade Leon (though I'm sure he's an armchair internet warrior) many are too intimidated to air those views publicly, but we have a quiet booth to place our X on May 3rd and who knows what will happen?

69

Stu_R_20,

edinburgh 08/04/2007 12:38:09

Infact the BNP stand to do quite well in the upcoming elections. Having a proportional representation system suits their dispersed voters. Their percentage share of the electorate in England has been steaadily climbing with every genral election, not sure bout in Scotland though. Suppose all politics must be represented in an election and that includes the right.

70

Stu_R_20,

edinburgh 08/04/2007 12:39:52

#67
Compulsary national service for men of my age is an excellent idea, instills some discipline.

71

Itchy,

08/04/2007 12:49:42

#67 You are right to be concerned about compulsory national service.

National service is a feature of omnipotent governments.

72

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 12:50:07

And the ones like Colin who dont believe in armies or self defence can be medics instead, or cooks or some other useful thing which prevents excessive naval gazing and introverted thought processes?

There must be a hundred and one useful things a conscientious objector or pacifest can do that keeps their hands and their conscience squeaky clean.
I have the greatest respect for the dissadent, the refuser to follow the herd or the party line, Colin will find many sympathisers in the BNP.

73

tommy,

belfast uk 08/04/2007 13:06:07

The BNP--a bitter pill to swallow
As my old Granny used to say "Take your medicine,it will do you good"
the multiculturalists have taken any pride out of the nation
The BNP's results could be interesting and they may prove to be- just what the country needs

74

,

08/04/2007 13:20:11
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75

Mart DownUnder,

Sydney 08/04/2007 13:29:05

It is nonsence to say the BNP are all rabid black/ Asian hating anti-semites. What rubbish. In a lot of inner city areas, for example, Tower Hamlets in London, they speak up for the white minority who feel isolated and suffer higher levels of unemployment. Yes , (limited) immigration is beneficial, but remember it is the poorer working class people who compete for the lower paid jobs with immigrants, and who bear the brunt of high immigration to inner city areas.

The BNP may have an extreme element, but at least they have opened up the debate on immigration in this country. As we know, this Labour Government's immigration policies have been catastrophic.
Wasn't it John Reid, as Home Minister, who admitted he didn't have a clue how many asylum seekers/ illegal immigrants were in the UK ? Blair & co love letting in more immigrants, as they are more likely to vote Labour when they get right to vote

76

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 13:33:56

Well I’m Scottish, a local Aberdonian and Standing for the BNP in Aberdeen, my Grandmother is directly linked to our very own Rabbie Burns or Burness by his proper name, so now I’ve got my Scottish ness out the way .I also served in the Army for 11, years and the Prison Service for 8.
I despair at what’s happening in Aberdeen, the scandal politicians forking out thousands for planned trips abroad to recruit more East European workers while at the same time charging pensioners more for much needed and vital home care. Even to the point of completely withdrawing funds for vital services. The fact that seeing policemen out on the beat is like spotting hens teeth, all while youths run amok and addicts and dealers carry out their vile trade and habit unhindered by any police presence.
We have locals overlooked in housing waiting lists while Immigrants manage to be allocated houses in nice areas, some of our locals have been waiting years to move out of the most deprived crime ridden areas.
Aberdeen’s dental waiting list was at 15,000, three years ago ? I wonder what it is now with an estimated 15,000 Poles added to the number and the promise of more Migrants to come from Romania and Bulgaria.
Our hospital is at breaking point, diseases almost unheard of in the UK are in the increase in the North East, and the number of health migrants who use work as an excuse to gain access to the NHS is also increasing.
The liberals and lefties jump on any bandwagon to protect minorities while at the same time, call us Racist for having the right to our own homeland where our values and culture remain unchanged.
What is happening at the moment is little more than legalised ethnic cleansing of our culture, history, and way of life. I have pride in what our forefathers gave us, and am willing to fight for the right to have a Christian Scottish/British existence.
And anyone that cant see the dangers of Islam must be living on a different planet fr

77

,

08/04/2007 13:59:59
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78

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 14:01:34

I'm in pretty much total agreement with Itchy here. Control and the meddling long arm of the executive state in the workings of the free market and of individuals is something we should all be against if we really wish to create a free society.

#70 FrankieD

You talk of unalienable rights, but there is a problem with that - you have no evidence for their existence, so it is up to you to prove these metaphysical unalienable rights exist in some sort of Platonic way... You also talk of unalienable rights, if voting was an unalienable right, then the BNP would have no grounds to take it away from me if I refused to partake in national service because of reasons that stem both from morality and utility.

You also say immigration and national service are small parts of their policies. I do not care for this reasoning. Rural affairs are big for you, you admit it. Opposition to national service is big for me and it is the reason I will not be voting BNP (for moral and utilitarian reasons) or Labour (for utility only).

#72 Stu

That is completely unacceptable. My liberty is non-negotiable and I will not have that trampled on for some pathetic argument that it instills discipline. I do not want billions of pounds and civil liberties removed from individuals for 'discipline'. You can be assured that there are many thousands, even millions, who will oppose this policy. The BNP's utopia of a disciplined citizenship will be hard to realise.

#74 Frankie

What if I refuse to be a medic or cook from the fact that I refuse to support the military or a regime that instills compulsory national service? I am not just a pacifist, but I am a libertarian as well (amongst other things). These two philosophies combines make it absolutely unacceptable for me to agree to the policies set down by the BNP. There are many policies of current governments that I disagree with, but none are so meddling to force people to give up years of their lives and wast

79

Gallon,

Glasgow 08/04/2007 14:05:10

Dixon..try telling that to Kriss Donald and all the other poor unfortunates.
Things have got much worse since then all over Glasgow. Are you blinkered, or do you live in Glasgow Australia?

80

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 14:13:06

#78

What about non-Christians like myself? Will I not be welcome in your new 'utopia'?

What about people who are not immigrants at all but are atheists (like myself) or Muslims or Hindus?

81

Miss J.H. London,

London 08/04/2007 14:42:04

What a bunch of hypocrites you Scottish are! Fighting so-called 'racism and fascists' of the BNP by indulging in pathetic Anglophobic bigotry.

As for immigration, yes it's all well and good opening the boarders and talking about minorities, but unfortunately they don't stay the minority!

Multicultrualism only works if the indigenous culture remains the majority. That hasn't happened here in London - where there are no white English people left! If this was any other culture in any other part of the world people like Leon would be calling it 'ethnic cleansing!'

I hope whats happened down here to the white English working classes eventually happens up to you Socialist twerps up there, and you also eventually get wiped out - YOU DESERVE IT!

82

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 14:46:21

# 69 Itchy - you have eat too many chocolate eggs my boy - go away and lie down.

83

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 14:54:07

#83

Supporting your nation does not automatically equate to hatred of another. Does a Frenchman supporting the values of France - of liberty and freedom - make him automatically hate Germans? Your logic is completely absurd.

Your last sentence says it all. You accuse us of being anti-English and then go onto write anti-Scottish drivel. Who was the hypocrite again?

Can I also ask you why you think foreigners moving in equates to ethnic cleansing. I did not realise the non-white population of London were sending the white population of to concentration camps. Or perhaps I've not been paying close enough to the news. Or perhaps you are living in a complete fantasy world. It does not work like you would like it to.

#84

Great comeback... You astound me.

84

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 15:48:47

P.S. #51 Sedov. I suggest you read Hayek's 'The Road to Serfdom'.

We can both say there are many books written by each side. We have the advantage of not wishing to throw our system upon others that do not wish it. We propose a system of absolute liberty, which means if you wish to set up a communist community you can do so, but you would not have the right to force that communist community upon others - which is what you currently wish to do. You are one of those chess players Adam Smith warned us all against 200 years ago.

85

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 16:17:51

64 get thee behind me, Satan !

86

,

08/04/2007 16:20:38
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87

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 16:23:09

75 - the country (what one ?) needs bromide for medicine more than it needs the bnp (lost deposit party)

88

Name,

08/04/2007 16:23:27

BNP, SNP what's the difference?

89

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 16:26:27

72 - Try disciplining yourself to stop making spelling errors.

90

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 16:28:57

90 ...err British or Scottish, or lost deposits as opposed to potential Scottish Executive or racist as opposed to anti-racist....

91

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 16:30:40

83 - and a happy Easter to you too, darlin' !

92

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 16:40:58

#86 ColinEdin. As a democrat I do not wish to force anything on anybody, far from it. The masses will ultimately make their own mind up whether to carry on with the present system of which, I suggest, is a choice between socialism or barbarism. I am a mere mortal in the great scheme of things. However, I can put my tuppence worth in the same as you or anyone else. I feel that I have an advantage, not in an elitist sense, , but in an enlightened way, in that as a long time marxist, I have a method of analysis that presents an advantage over the normal subjective, "here and now" polemic of the bourgeoise liberalism of the average Scot. - And as the song says... ends the age of Kant. We must ,as you will appreciate, try and have a sense of proportion and humour in all our debate, something which is sadly lacking in the the majority of posts especially on the subject of nationalism.

93

williamx,

Delta 08/04/2007 16:51:25

Perhaps the Scottish Labour party has funded the BNP in Scotland to reduce the vote for the SNP. Wouldn't put it past them.

94

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 17:17:43

#94

So you say you will not use force, can I ask you then, how will you enforce your system upon those who object? Furthermore, you do realise that the current system uses force to implement its systems upon us. Refuse to pay your taxes? What next? They will fine you, if you refuse, they will imprison you, if you lock yourself in your home and refuse they may even come into your home with armed police and may even kill you. Although, I know taxation is a lesser of two evils, and may have some sort of necessity with it, it does offer an interesting paradox.

As a Marxist, I would like to ask you how you would afford your extensive welfare programme if you are going to stifle commerce and industry at the same time?

You say you have an advantage because your system looks far into the future, but I must disagree. My system has been tried and tested and it works. We have seen what liberalism has done in the past. The founding fathers of the USA put a system in place that would result in their country having the most powerful economy on the planet and amongst the highest standards of living. This is why I advocate a return to the days of 18th and 19th century liberalism.

Your system, on the other hand, demands that each individual adopt the system that you wish to impose upon them - and thus destroying liberty and prosperity in the process. Your system has also been shown to have never worked in the real world. Your system, in the words of Alexis de Tocqueville, strives (perhaps even nobly) to generate equality. However, it is democracy that gives equality through liberty, socialism, Marxism and communism that give equality through servitude. You cannot create the society you wish to create without infringing upon the rights of the individual.

Your 'patterned' system of distributive justice upsets liberty, as Robert Nozick showed in 'Anarchy, State and Utopia'. I would ask you to look at this link:

Report Unsuitable

95

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 17:32:24

#96 ColinEdin. You sound very frightened about a marxist revolution taking over the world. Is it because your cosy little world based on materialism could be threatened against the background of capitalism in terminal decline? Your post makes me even more determined to do away with a system that puts profit before people. However, I do understand your fear over the destruction of the inequalities of the present system- believe me Colin, the marxists are coming for your way of life. just look at our web site. The good news is that like the Russian Revolution of 1917 it will be peaceful and you will have a choice- and the opportunity of participating in the emanicipation of all the peoples in the world -so rejoice and cheer up.

96

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 17:50:37

#98 Chuck - Trotsky said that the only way to educate a fascist was to aquaint his head with the pavement.

97

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 18:03:14

Well I’m Scottish, a local Aberdonian and Standing for the BNP in Aberdeen, my Grandmother is directly linked to our very own Rabbie Burns or Burness by his proper name, so now I’ve got my Scottish ness out the way .I also served in the Army for 11, years and the Prison Service for 8.
I despair at what’s happening in Aberdeen, the scandal politicians forking out thousands for planned trips abroad to recruit more East European workers while at the same time charging pensioners more for much needed and vital home care. Even to the point of completely withdrawing funds for vital services. The fact that seeing policemen out on the beat is like spotting hens teeth, all while youths run amok and addicts and dealers carry out their vile trade and habit unhindered by any police presence.
We have locals overlooked in housing waiting lists while Immigrants manage to be allocated houses in nice areas, some of our locals have been waiting years to move out of the most deprived crime ridden areas.
Aberdeen’s dental waiting list was at 15,000, three years ago ? I wonder what it is now with an estimated 15,000 Poles added to the number and the promise of more Migrants to come from Romania and Bulgaria.
Our hospital is at breaking point, diseases almost unheard of in the UK are in the increase in the North East, and the number of health migrants who use work as an excuse to gain access to the NHS is also increasing.
The liberals and lefties jump on any bandwagon to protect minorities while at the same time, call us Racist for having the right to our own homeland where our values and culture remain unchanged.
What is happening at the moment is little more than legalised ethnic cleansing of our culture, history, and way of life. I have pride in what our forefathers gave us, and am willing to fight for the right to have a Christian Scottish/British existence.
And anyone that cant see the dangers of Islam must be living on a different planet fr

98

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 18:08:51

#100 Fascist from Aberdeen. You are heading for disaster - stop now before its too late.

99

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 18:15:20

#78 Aberdeen
I know what you mean about Aberdeen. One of the worst places on my route with Argos. We used to hump 'starter kits' up 4 floors to be welcomed by a Polish family who couldn't speak any English. They would point to each room for each box before hurrying back to the living where a translater was waiting to help them with benefit claims etc. Made me wonder if it was all worth it for £5.85 an hour ( £7.00 after 8pm )

100

KennyLad,

Glasgow 08/04/2007 18:20:18

I'll be voting BNP. They have a good chance of getting a list MSP elected in Glasgow.

101

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 18:23:19

MPs and MSPs of all parties in Scotland have been consistent since these race-hate scumbags have shown their face here. They deny them the platform they desperately seek for their filth.

Every election in Glasgow has seen ALL candidates refuse to take the platform with the BNP's neanderthal candidates.

In 1997 a gang of 40 neo-Nazi skinheads attempted to disrupt the election count at the SECC. Activists of ALL parties sent them packing with a police escort.

We have a hard-fought and closely contested election in Scotland this year. It is to every political party's credit that the one thing they have all united on in the past, and at present, is the need to smash the fascists and isolate them completely.

Sadly, some parties down south, such as the Lib Dems, support BNP councillors in the Town Hall (e.g. Burnley). I would hope these parties can learn from the Scottish example.

#83 - You are a simple-minded bigot. Shut the door on your way out.

102

livilion,

livingston 08/04/2007 18:32:34

Hey, if these eejits want to waste good money by throwing it down the drains up here then I say let them.

Banning them just brings us down to their level, this is a democracy.
Don't stand on any platform with them.

They can send as many candidates from wherever they like.
Who'n the name is ever gonna vote for these lowbrows?

Lost deposits mean less to torment poor folks elsewhere.

Best thing you can do is let them damn themselves by their own poison.

The tories can't get themselves elected even with the full might of the fourth estate behind them, what makes these dumplins reckon they'd fare any better?

103

Andy The Scot,

moniaive 08/04/2007 18:34:08

Good luck to the BNP. You have as much right to stand for election as any party. tories/labour.... different cheeks.... same Bottom!! thankyou for offering something different and thankyou for your brave activists who work with such great effort to make britain great again. I often wonder how long other parties would last with just the financial backing of its members?? Not too long me thinks??

In the beginning of a change,
the Patriot is a scarce man-brave
though hated and scorned.

but when his cause succeeds,
the timid join him.
for then it costs nothing to be a
Patriot.

104

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 18:44:31

Sedov 99 - Leon (he of the ice-pick) only meant 'knock some sense into them' : )

105

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 18:47:05

100 - you must be lonely guy up there. Hope the lost deposit disnae financially embarrass the skinheids too much : )

106

Helen,

08/04/2007 18:48:05

#17.....The flag of St George is not the flag of the BNP. You just had to see the number of people who flew the flag during the World Cup last year. The English are reclaiming their flag from the racists and rightly so. For too long English people couldn't fly their national flag because organisations like the National Front and latterly the BNP had hijacked it. I'm proud to fly my English flag in the same way the Scots are proud to fly the Saltire.

107

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 18:48:57

106 - to be sung to the tune of the Horst Wessel song !

108

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 19:02:24

#109 Helen
I noticed during the Nick Griffin trial that there were Scots, Welsh, English and Union Jack flags so obviously they must have support from throughout the UK. Most flag flying throughout the UK seems to be discouraged these days in case it alienates immigrants. Similarly with Easter and Christmas ( called festive season in Scotland ) celebrations.

109

Frankie D,

UK 08/04/2007 19:11:10

NO 104

Another "smash the fasher"? Get a grip and listen to yourself. Because the "old gang" of bottom feeders doesn't wish to share a platform with the guy who shouts "hey wait a minute..you're wrong" Thats supposed to make the electorate respect them? Grow up!

Because a bunch of chancers will happlily band together to shut up and shut out dissenters you think they are great?

If they band together and cosy up (the way they always do behind closed doors anyway) how do issues get aired?

Where is the vehicle, or the voice for the guy who is unhappy about the constant merry-go-round of politics where no matter who is in charge things stay the same for the old pals in interchangeable rosettes?

The BNP are the awkward squad, the guys who say what the intimidated think...shoot the messenger by all means, nothing new there in politics.

Carve up the goodies on the council and shaft the voter and the taxpayer because we've demonised the opposition, effective, but hardly democratic?

Just one thing, please, please dont go all superior Left Wing morals on us and pretend its anything more than a love for the status quo and a snout deep in the trough?

110

Sedov,

Scotland 08/04/2007 19:12:47

#107 Pilrig. Yes - only those most dangerous to the status quo get assisanated- so you are perfectly safe Pilrig.

111

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 19:13:28

Also the BNP don’t hate anyone their is a massive difference between racism and nationalism, why should we not be allowed to live our way in our Land. Also the BNP are not against minorities that are lawfully living in our country, and forcing their alien culture onto ours, like Islam. The Hindus, Buddhists, Sheiks, all integrate and don’t force culture change upon us; they have not declared open war on the west. We are against illegal immigration, why should our tax payers pick up the tab for chancing immigrants that see Britain as a soft touch. We can’t even look after our own pensioners properly yet.
Also we are against Mass Immigration, this only benefits the want to get richer brigade, at the cost of the normal working man. Its also the working mans children that will suffer as teachers struggle to teach subjects to Non English foreign kids. This is already happening in Aberdeen (watch this space for funding to be withdrawn from school’s to provide specialist Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian, speaking teachers) Kids are already suffering as teachers try and cope with the foreign influx and classes get disrupted.
Also wonder what kind of wage rises the average man will get as the employers quickly cotton onto the ready made Balkan replacements. Also we have seen stabbings, rape, at the hands of our east European friends, lives damaged that would have not been. Have we not got enough of our own crime to be getting on with.
You over educated Scotsman readers really need to get a doze of the real world just like Miss JH London pointed out in a rather anti Scottish way.

Please wake up folks

God Bless

112

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 19:19:54

#97

Why would I be frightened of a Marxist revolution? It will never happen. It's happened in the past, it's been tried, it has failed. I don't see any major political movement wanting to return to those dark days. You are a dying breed of activist and I for one am thankful about that.

You talk of equality and emancipation, yet your equality does not extend past the working class and emancipation was achieved in the 30's. Equality through liberty treats all people equally by merit, be it race, gender or creed.

I am sad you describe my system as puting profit before people. There are two points to make here, firstly - there is nothing wrong with profit. Those who think that profit is some sort of evil are quite deluded. If someone provides a service, it only makes sense that they be rewarded for that service. Secondly, my system has shown to reduce poverty when put into practice. It can be seen in the projects to build up areas such as Leith in Edinburgh. Leith is in the position it is today from an increasing supply of jobs brought in by more businesses and urban renewal. Handouts never solved Leiths problems and they never will. You can see this in deprived areas all across Scotland. Look at the success stories and you will see they are far far far away from your Marxist ideas.

I am actually quite sad that my post makes you more determined to do away with the system that has made this country and others around the world so wealthy. I have several questions for you, some of which you have so far refused to answer and have just partaken in excessive circumlocution.

1) How will you fund your extensive welfare programme without having private enterprise and business?
2) How will you prevent the state from stagnating due to a lack of competition? We can see in every single government sector that they perform less efficiently than the private sector.
3) You say I will have a choice, does that mean I can band together with other

113

Green Arrow,

South Wales 08/04/2007 19:22:45

99 - Sedov.

Apparently the only way to knock some sense into Trotsky was with an Ice Pick. Live by the Sword - Die by the Sword.

Good Luck to the BNP in Scotland. You have a long hard fight in front of you but we know you can prevail.

And when we are out of Europe, our fishing fleets will fill Aberdeen harbour again.

114

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 19:27:15

#97 Continued

8) Do you understand what slavery is? It is the taking of ones labour by the use of force. Following this definition, does you system not equate to state sanctioned slavery?
9) Continued from question 8, does your system not also amount to state sanctioned theft? Would you support a truck driver stealing from a multi-million pound bank in order so that the two could have less difference in their total wealth? If not, why do you support the right of the state to do it?
10) If the UK had a written constitution that guaranteed everyone the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (like the American one), would you be willing to break that in order to remove private property?
11) What is wrong with private property?
12) Finally, how do you expect to calculate between projects if there are a lack of prices? If you are to compare two projects, such as project A and Project B (a good example would be between building a tunnel or a bridge to cross the Forth) how would you decide which to build? If there is no market and goods have no prices, you have no way of knowing which method would be better? You have no way of knowing which method would be less expensive for the people of your state, which would employ more people and which would provide the better outcome if you do not have a market. Would you compromise on the market to solve this problem or would you blunder ahead with whatever build you think was best?

115

barbour,

Perth 08/04/2007 19:29:24

#73 Itchy
National Service = Omnipotent Governments?
Israel
Netherlands
USA,(National Guard)
Australia
Finland
Switzerland
Austria
Greece
All above have some form of National Service,I see what you mean!

116

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 19:33:28

#112

Just because I oppose the BNP does not mean I am a left-wing socialist. No, far from it, I am a freedom loving libertarian. I would never vote the BNP because I support and defend my liberty and I would never vote the BNP because they would harm our economy be restricting the free movement of labour and therefore that would restrict the free-market.

You have also not answered my question from before. What is the difference between 10,000 immigrants coming into an area and the 'natives' of that area having 10,000 children? Would you systematically deport the children to a new location? If not, why not? If you don't systematically deport those children to a new location then can we conclude that your anti-immigration stance is nothing more than xenophobia?

#109 - Helen

Exactly the way it should be! :)

117

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 19:35:12

#118 Barbour

None of those countries have compulsory national service. In most, only about 33% of individuals actually are forced to go. This is still completely wrong and should be opposed by any individual who supports liberty.

P.S. The national guard of the USA is not a national service.

118

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 19:38:10

#118 Barbour

Furthermore, forgot to add that those countries are not as free as they could be either. They are also not omnipotent governments in the sense that Itchy was talking about, since what the BNP wishes to implement would result in those opposing it having their right to vote removed. We were talking about the BNP's plans for the UK, not any other country.

I would still be opposed to national service if I was a member of any of those countries mentions - but we are not talking about them.

119

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 19:40:11

#112 - Frankie D: You ask "Where is the vehicle, or the voice for the guy who is unhappy about the constant merry-go-round of politics"

Nomination forms are available from your local authority offices. Two people to nominate you and you can be a council candidate. Closing date is April 11th I think. You can then spread your views as much as you like from now till May 3rd.

Stand under any manifesto you want. Put out some leaflets. Probably cost you £100 or so. See how many votes you get.

Obviously, I doubt you will do any of this, like most keyboard warriors you seem happy to moan and (in your case) defend neo-Nazis, but unable to accept your democratic responsibility.

120

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 19:41:45

#115 ColinEdin
All of your points are true. I also embrace capitalism as a better way to live compared to communism.
Doctors are worth more than binmen.
However the main problem now is that Scottish folk on £6 an hour are seen as well off compared to immigrants on £4 an hour and so should be grateful and keep quiet.
How would you feel if you were asked to take a pay cut and do longer hours because if you didn't then there were thousands from Bulgaria willing to do it ?
I appreciate that you are obviously well trained and so above this problem. However if your circumstances changed or immigrants became even more skilled and and you were then thrown amongst the employment agency wolves you too would realise the problem facing Scotland. If you were from Bulgaria then of course there would be no problem. Cheap food from the Coop or Tesco in order to eat and the rest of the money sent home. If however you were paying rent. council tax, etc then you would be in trouble.

121

Itchy,

08/04/2007 19:41:58

#118 I see you are unable to think in terms of principles so i will not waste my time debating with you.

122

Itchy,

08/04/2007 19:45:26

#94 "Sedov, Scotland / 5:40pm 8 Apr 2007 #86 ColinEdin. As a democrat I do not wish to force anything on anybody, far from it. 2

Yes you do. Later you say...." , but in an enlightened way, in that as a long time marxist, I have a method of analysis that presents an advantage over the normal subjective, "here and now" polemic of the bourgeoise liberalism of the average Scot. - "

Marxism is totalitarian, both in theory and in practice, and has proved itself so for nearly a century

123

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 19:51:06

Sedov 113 - phew !!!

124

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 19:51:17

Livilion 105 least I know where you are coming from being a minority Livi Fan and you know what its like to throw money down the drain, supporting that nose diving team. Unlike the BNP that’s on the way up. What you rose tinted liberal’s fail to see is that this is not a game of politics for BNP supporters, but a vote for our country our way of life our history and identity and a future for our children in their own homeland.
50 years from now Africa will still be owned by the Africans, Poland by the Poles, China by the Chinese, but Scotland will be a multi cultural hell hole with different factions fighting amongst each other trying to get the upper hand. Like the aforementioned countries they have a right to their lands and way of life. Just like we do. Why is their no mass migration to the third world countries, because Britain is the soft touch? What will then happen? If everyone who is poor turns up on our door step.
A BNP government would at least have the guts to sort out the despot regimes that drag so much of the world into poverty stopping the need for the mass immigration we have at the moment.
But having Britain dragged down to the same level will not help these people.

As I said the BNP don’t hate anyone, let them come here on holiday and enjoy what’s left of our heritage and history, before it’s gone.

125

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 19:52:12

#123 callmedave

Immigrants sending money home was a thing of the migrant labour of the 60's,70's and 80's. Most immigrants today keep their money and spend it in the country where they make it. This is made even more clear when you look at the ages of those moving into this country and the marital status of them. The vast majority are single and young.

I actually am not well trained (yet :)), I work in a supermarket. I am a student at university just now. I have never had any problem finding work and I work beside mostly immigrants who I am friends with and we get payed the same.

Also, your argument about the paycut would work in an economy of 30 or so years ago. However, my libertarianism applies to today - not to history. With most immigrants today keeping their earned wealth within the country they have moved to, it is actually bad for a company to reduce wages in such a way. This would result in an eventual depression or even crash in the market and as a result would harm the company. It would be like if everyone were to take more benefits than they were allowed to. It could be possible that the entire country could take part in benefit fraud, but it wont happen because it could be worse for yourself to do it and it would just increase your taxes further. The same can be applied to business. There is also a general moral problem associated with immigration. Why should we prevent those who want to increase their standard of living from doing so?

126

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 19:52:44

118 - we do National Service in the UK as well. here it's called income tax !

127

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/04/2007 19:53:56

127 a bnp government / Come on you're having a laugh : )

128

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 19:59:40

Colin 119 quote;
What is the difference between 10,000 immigrants coming into an area and the 'natives' of that area having 10,000 children?

10,000 native children ensures the same values culture and traditions will be carried on.

10,000 immigrants is an invasion force

ps if you dont know the difference it says it all "what planet are you on"

129

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 20:05:56

128. ColinEdin quote:There is also a general moral problem associated with immigration. Why should we prevent those who want to increase their standard of living from doing so.


So how many do we take in then, with that logic we could have the whole of the third world living here.

YOu are a traitor, my mates are in Iraq now, fighting while slugs like you leave a trail of your Liberal muck everywhere you go. You are a disgrace to all the Brave men and woman who have given so much to make Britain great.

130

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 20:08:16

#128ColinEdin
The latest statistics from the Home Office ( I know they're not entirely reliable but what else do we have ?) is that £8Bn is sent home annually by immigrant labour. Now I don't know where you live but round here the immigrants hang around Morrisons and Tescos at closing time in order to buy up the cheap out of date food. The guys have jeans and leather jackets and the girls have tight jeans and white bomber jackets with a furry collar. They have no interest in investing in our country and are packed into dangerous caravans or 6 to a room in dingy flats. Definitely not looking to stop here any longer than necessary.

131

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 20:20:53

#132 You and your fascist colleagues are truly living on another planet if you truly believe "Britain" is "great".

The UK is nothing special - a middling country on the Western periphery of Europe with historic and geographic links to North America.

You and your ilk are truly the traitors of this situation, parroting your xenophobic bigoted filth as if you were some kind of superior being - when the reality is most of you are doleys and failures, knuckledraggers blaming others for your own inadequacies.

Fortunately, the people of Scotland have shown time and time again what they think of your hate-mongering - complete contempt and humiliation at the polls.

The irony of all your lost deposits being used to support all the peoples of Scotland must kill you.

132

Itchy,

08/04/2007 20:21:55

#132 "

YOu are a traitor, my mates are in Iraq now, fighting while slugs like you leave a trail of your Liberal muck everywhere you go. You are a disgrace to all the Brave men and woman who have given so much to make Britain great."

Actually, you are the disgrace. You want to wreck Britain with your half-witted economic policies when your mates eventually come back

133

barbour,

Perth 08/04/2007 20:28:28

#120,121.124,
Read the words that Itchy used on 73 omnipotent/government I merely pointed out that national sevice and omnipotence do not necessarily equate,Again US National Guard is as close to NS as to make no differance.
As regard to certain countries not beeing as "free as they want"come down to earth please from whatever planet your on.
Itchy,you won't debate with me,well i will certainly lose some sleep over not wasting time/effort with a paranoic fool.

134

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 20:33:28

#134Not Brian Taylor.
I think Britain is quite special. I spent 22yrs in the Armed Forces trying to defend us.
Came home to folk like you who hate us.
So what have you done in your life to help us ?

135

Itchy,

08/04/2007 20:38:52

#136 "Itchy,you won't debate with me,well i will certainly lose some sleep over not wasting time/effort with a paranoic fool."

Since you only have ad hominems and nothing to say about the topic at hand, I was right not waste my time with you.

136

Keith Mc Farlane. BNP Activist,

Gateshead UK 08/04/2007 20:40:14

Reply to Leon.
So you want to "Smash the BNP" eh? How typical of you Reds, to want to use violence when you are losing the political arguement. We have your sort down here in Gateshead, who seek to subvert the democratic process through threats, and intimidation! Expierience has shown me that you "Hard talkers" are empty vessels! Iv even confronted one Marxist who threated me when he was in a group, and i was alone! He absoloutley Sh*t himself when we were alone face to face! Me thinks you are the same.

So the BNP is "anti Catholic, and anti Trade Unionist" is it? Well thats news to me? What utter lying rubbish, im both Catholic, and a trade Unionist! Typical of you Reds to spout lies about the BNP. What i say to you Scots is this....Check out the BNP website for your self, and form your own oppinion.

I would be Heart broken hearted if Scotland broke away from the UK. Scots have made such a huge contribution to Britain . One of the Great acheivements of the BNP is that we are Non Sectairian, Protestants, and Catholics work together. The BNP is open to ALL of English, Scots, Welsh and Irish decent regardless of Religion or class.

OUR TIME IS COMING

137

caitlin,

uk 08/04/2007 20:51:44

NO134

What an arrogant post, presuming to talk for the "people of Scotland". You talk for people like you, not the ones who think it might be a good thing to have a change.
I'm voting BNP for the first time and I'm not a doley or a scrounger and I dont have a skinhead. I'm just a mum who doesnt want to live in a place that can breed suicide bombers, like Leeds for example.
My husband and I have always worked, no doleys here so dont be ignorant and get off your silly one world high horse.
No ones asking you to vote BNP but thats your opinion and your right. I wouldn't be too sure its the will of the "Scottish People".

138

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 21:06:18

Never voted BNP either but had a look at their website tonight (bnp.org.uk)
Seemed quite professional but got too carried away with the trip by Nick Griffin to some castle near Cruden Bay. Supposed to be the inspiration for Dracula or something. Really got into it so might visit it with the missus tomorrow.
At least Nick Griffin would be able to get a job as a travel writer or something if this political malarkey goes ape.

139

barbour,

Perth 08/04/2007 21:20:22

#138 Itchy
See you have had a latin phrase book given to you,or aliunde are you custos morum? im afraid your post are non squitar.
I must not descend to your level of pretension,and only in the future when conversing with sensible posts,(not yours) in the Queens good English.
Good night

140

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 21:20:25

#137 Callmedave: Britain is 'special' to the British. As France is 'special' to the French and Ireland 'special' to the Irish. There is nothing wrong with that.

What I am talking about is this pseudo-myth that Britain has some kind of 'Great' birthright that the likes of the BNP refer to.

Britain has been on a downward economic spiral for the last 100 years. We compete for last place in the G7 with Italy. France, Germany and Spain have shot past us and will not be caught in our lifetimes. There is nothing 'Great' about that.

The idea that the fascists of the BNP will make Britain 'Great' again would be laughable, were it not for the serious implications for democracy and freedom that their policies would mean.

141

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 21:26:28

#143 NotBrian Taylor
Err I think you're a bit out of your depth here Brian
We're way above Italy. Spain and Germany on any economic tests you might care to make.
Why not talk up Britain instead of letting us descend into a horrible place of low wages and zero identity ?

142

Itchy,

08/04/2007 21:32:37

#142 so far you have had nothing on-topic to say.

143

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 21:36:07

#140 Caitlin: I don't presume to speak for the people of Scotland. They have done that themselves:

2003 Glasgow List BNP vote: 1.21% (11th place)
1997 Govan Westminster BNP vote: 0.46% (10th)
1997 Shettleston Westminster BNP vote: 0.71% (7th)

You have a perfect right to vote for these neo-Fascists. Knock yourself out. If Nazis are your thing, go right ahead. Just don't go complaining when they start harassing you for not being one of the Aryan 'Volk'.

144

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 21:44:32

#144 Callmedave: I am not talking about GDP per capita here. UK is about even with France & Germany and ahead of Spain and Italy on this measure.

Our economy is now entirely based on the service sector. When a recession hits, the UK is up the creak without a paddle. All the above countries still have a semblance of manufacturing, particularly Germany & France. When recession hits, manufacturing will be hit, but not as hard as services.

The UK's underlying economic structure is fecked. The slightest whiff of trouble and we will all be buying brown trousers. The result of a century of disinvestment in our industrial infrastructure. An indirect result of the 'Bulldog' mentality that has hindered rational investment in commerce.

This is why Britain will never be 'Great' for the foreseeable future.

145

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 21:46:11

I can honestly say as the days pass and the more we go out and leaflet the public the more your lies about the BNP diminishes in their mind. You Lefties and Liberals can’t handle the fact the truth is getting out their. I was involved in the first Gulf war spent two years in Ireland (Palace Barracks) soldiers will know this place.
I will fight, and will never give in until the country is back in safe hands with people that love Britain. I will fight to make sure my children have a future in their own homeland. The BNP supporters are the most committed people in the land, and we have only just started the fight to reclaim our lands, way of life and continued existence.
We will grow stronger and stronger with every passing day, say what you want, lie hide the truth, threaten violence, we will not give up our fight. This is our land. The land of our forefathers.

146

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 21:47:10

#131 and 132 Aberdeen

Firstly, your criticism in 131 is a total assumption. Most immigrants easily assimilate into their new countries. You have also failed to point out the economic difference of the 10,000 children, but rather have attacked the 10,000 immigrants as being 'non-British'. That clearly shows signs of xenophobia.

In 132 you make another assumption, the assumption that the free market would allow unlimited immigration. People do not immigrate if there is nothing for them to immigrate for. You assume that if we have free and open borders (which I advocate) that we would have a massive influx of immigration. The funny thing is, most people entering the UK have absolutely no trouble doing so. All that free borders would do would save the country billions of pounds in administration and locking up 'illegal' immigrants or asylum seekers.

You then call me a traitor, for espousing the values of free-speech and democracy that Britain has so long held - you are a complete paradox. I also have no idea why you mention Iraq. My freedom does not stem from the invasion of a foreign country thousands of miles away and you would do well to recognise this. My freedom stems from the government, which could do a lot more to extend further freedoms to people living in Britain and to the free-market. This has nothing to do with Iraq, you have just made a complete non-sequitur.

#133 Callmedave

The same Home Office has also released statistics that immigration has caused the UK economy to grow by 3%. Immigrants have also saved the economy billions in that they have not been educated in Britain and they are paying tax when they get work

I live in Edinburgh, I have never experienced what you are writing about. I work with people who are not from the UK every day, all of them I know speak English and I am friendly with many of them. I see no difference between them and a 'native'.

#136 Barbour

I am not saying they do equate in a

147

Nicholas Breakspeare,

08/04/2007 21:51:03

What the BNP spout in public is not the same as what they spout in their backroom meeting with the "special ones", their 'stormtroopers'. They cannot be trusted and we should never ever let them get a toehold in Scotland.

They are bigotted against Asians, Blacks, Jews, Gays, Catholics, Gypsies and will never change!

They'd screw the whole country to get it THEIR way and THEIR way only!

148

Nicholas Breakspeare,

08/04/2007 21:54:23

btw .... I have traced my family tree back to Edinburgh in 1559 so far, so I'm as Scottish as you'd get. Or so you might think. But human beings have this quaint custom of intermarrying with other sections of our species. The further back you go and you'll find we're all 'mongelised' somwhere along the line.

149

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 21:54:34

#146 Not brian Taylor
Think you should sink away somewhere quietly. I'm not a BNP supporter but you're killing us.
You've got no idea about the strengh of the G8 countries.
You quote figures from 10 yrs ago to show that the BNP has a poor support.
The Greens got 6 MSP's with 7% so I can see that being beaten easily. The BNP have 52 seats in English councils with 100 forecast in May so they seem to be doing ok.
I agree with you about manufacturing. The only way to stop the decline is to follow the example of France , Italy and Spain and ban the takeover by foreign investors. Our water and electricity companies are foreign owned. Could you imagine Spain or France allowing this ? No way . Only one option. Leave the EU. We're the only country who follows the rules so are seeing our manufacturing capacity decimated

150

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 21:56:05

#148 "You Lefties and Liberals can’t handle the fact the truth is getting out their"

You are certainly getting your illiteracy out "their"

I pity your children, I really do. Hopefully when they grow up they will have a bit more sense than their father.

151

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 22:02:46

#140 caitlin

Those bad feelings are not a result of immigration, but a result of the our foreign policy. We need to propose a system of strategic neutrality and remove ourselves from alliances like NATO. An ethical foreign policy is the only way to prevent others from hating us. Bombing others does not make us safer, it never has and it never will. Do you think you would be perfectly happy if the French bombed us? I can imagine the French saying that British people living in France were terrorists after that... Strategic neutrality is the way forward:

1) We do not meddle in others affairs
2) We save tonnes of money for the economy and for freedoms
3) We do not make ourselves a target (look at Sweden or Switzerland, two countries with this policy. Where is their threat?)
4) It is absurd to think that liberty rolls out of the barrel of a gun.

#142 Barbour.

Ad hominem is a logical fallacy and is perfectly reasonable English. Yes, it comes from Latin, but so does much of our language. I'm sure you know what ad hominem means and I'm sure you will agree that Itchy probably finds it much easier to write ad hominem than writing much more to explain that you committed an ad hominem.

#148 Aberdeen

You call us liars, yet you automatically assume we are lefties and liberals. Perhaps you don't even know what a libertarian is. Again, you are a complete paradox. You sound completely confused. You have to create this invisible opponent and strike hard at it, when in fact your opponents come from the liberals, the left, the conservatives and the libertarians. To brand us all with the same brush is folly.

I also do not understand why you mention your time in the military. As if that makes your word more credible or something? As far as I am concerned, your opinion counts for exactly the same as any other person's. You are one vote, and no matter how often you mention that you were part of an organisation that brings conflict

152

Not Brian Taylor,

08/04/2007 22:06:56

#146 "You quote figures from 10 yrs ago to show that the BNP has a poor support. "

OK how about:

2005 Glasgow Central BNP vote: 2.39% (7th)
2005 Glasgow NE: 3.24% (6th with no Lab or Lib candidate)

They have very little support in Scotland. Why else would they be parachuting candidates in from England? Neo-Nazis have always performed poorly in Scotland, this year will be no different. Democratic Scots should be wary though.

G8 countries strength:

http://www.globalbritain.org/BNN/BN35.pdf

shows UK, France & Germany about the same, Italy and Spain further back. But ignores underlying weaknesses.

153

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 22:09:26

#149 Colin Edin
I'm glad to hear that you've never experienced any problems with immigrants. That's good.
You're one of the lucky ones.
Try getting a job if you weren't skilled.
People WILL come here if there are no border controls.
Trident WILL stop Iran from shooting at us.
I just wish that folk like you would work in a shop or call centre for a week to see how it feels to work for £5.60 an hour and if there are any complaints then please leave as there are plenty of Eastern Europeans to take your job.

154

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 22:15:40

#155NotBrian Taylor
Most of the folk I hear from the Parliament have English voices so obviously the other parties are at it aswell. Nothing new. Mary Scanlon from the Tories must have done a trip of most of the Uk now trying to squeeze onto the MSP gravy train. Bit sad after all her anti minimum wage/ devolution rhetoric.

155

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 22:26:56

#156

Funny you say you wish I would work in a shop. I have worked in a shop for one and a half years. I already said I am a student further up (you must have missed it).

People come here and there are border controls. I guess you only mean that many people will come here? Well, I think asylum seekers and illegal immigrants working in a regulated enviroment is better for the economy than locking them up and spending billions of taxpayers money on a border control system.

So why is Britain unique? Trident will stop Iran from shooting at us? I guess the other 185 countries in the world that have no nuclear weapons are supreme targets? I also suppose that our trident deterrent came in very handy as a bargaining chip when the Iranians captured our troops? Sorry for all the rhetorical questions, but I just don't see the trident defense ever coming into play. 185/193 cannot be wrong. What will stop Iran from attacking us is if we don't constantly have the look and presumption of attacking it. Iran is scared of our huge presence in the gulf. Iran does not care one iota of Costa Rica (one of the few nations in the world which actually has 0 soldiers). We need strategic neutrality to stop being a target. It is funny how those BNP fans talk of 'giving Britain back to the British.' Yet at the same time they keep bringing up Iraq and our troops defending Britain in some far away backwater... If you really want to give Britain back to the British then perhaps bringing her troops home would be a start we could all agree upon.

156

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 22:44:01

#ColinEdin 154
I think the reason that folk mention that they were in the military is beacause they put their lives on the line for their country for very low wages. I know it's hard for you to contemplate but some folk actually love their country and would die to defend it's freedoms. Like the 4 folk killed this week in Iraq. Bit old fashioned but there you have it.
As for Costa Rica. Well I would bet you a million pounds that as soon as Costa Rica discovered oil on it's soil it would have the best defence system in Latin America. It's all relative really. Bit above your soft head I'm afraid.
So the best thing as I see it from your point of view is that we're a saddo country with no clout in the world and so we would have to sit by quietly while big countries could do as they pleased. Milosevich in Serbia. Galtierie in the Falklands, Hitler in Poland,
etc......... Wish folk like you would please LEAVE the UK. But you won't because this is one of the best most open countries in the world.

157

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 23:06:34

#159 callmedave

Nice of you to want me to leave the UK... I could say just the same thing of all my political opponents, but I don't, because that wouldn't really hold to my standards of liberty now would it?

Milosevich I'm sure would have been solved by other nations without our involvement. Although I do not really support what happened in the Falklands, there could be a libertarian and strategic neutrality argument in favour of defending what is seen as British lands, which would comply perfectly well with the idea of holding a military force for the defense of ones own lands. Hitler and Poland is actually a prime example of why we need strategic neutrality. Hitler would never have risen to power in Germany had Britain and the other allies not totally decimated the German economy at the end of WWI.

My argument was not to be like Costa Rica, I merely mentioned it in parenthesis as an astonishing fact. Of course Costa Rica may need to get a defense force if it did discover something like that, but it doesn't have (nor need) one just now. Despite that, it also has an extremely strong economy (although I could be making the logical fallacy of correlation without causation here).

Most people don't join the military to defend this country, they join because it is a job. You will also notice that the recruiting systems commonly prey upon poorer families for the military. This is not to say that some people have pride in defending their country - which I'm sure is true. However, I think their pride could be much better served actually defending it. The invasion of a backwater thousands of miles away does not constitute defense...

The invasion of Iraq has done more to stifle this nations freedoms than it has ever done to improve them.

158

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 23:09:06

153 What a total prat, so what I have not swallowed a dictionary or been blessed with a university education, that’s probably why I am more in touch with the average man in the street. You sit in your lofty perch, thinking you are so superior to the rest of us. But you don’t get a degree in common sense. I and the greater numbers of the population have to live with the shambles this country is sliding into.
We can’t look after our old and sick properly, seeing a policeman on the beat is like finding hens teeth, gangs of feral youths run amok around our estates at will, without fear or worry of prosecution. Islam is being forced upon our children (yes my daughter’s primary in Aberdeen), you say open our borders to what, the organised crime from East Europe that’s engulfing London and appearing over the rest of Britain.
I mentioned Iraq because it’s an illegal war we should not be in, and our soldiers are dying at the hands of terrorists that you would quite happily open the door too in respects to immigration. Go on tell the families of the 7/7 bombings how you would open our borders up and invite more like minded nutters into this country.
Most sane people in Britain want our immigration tightened, and our borders safe from breach by would be terrorists.

150 the BNP have Jewish members and a Jewish councillor, My Mum is catholic, my best mate is Indian (he supports and understands our Viewpoint, he pointed out the struggle between India’s Hindus/ and the Muslim Terrorists) gays we just say keep it indoors, and let our children decide their own sexuality when old enough

Go on spout your pubescent university bile. Wait until the real world catches up with you

159

twinkles,

08/04/2007 23:22:08

As for Costa Rica. Well I would bet you a million pounds that as soon as Costa Rica discovered oil on it's soil it would have the best defence system in Latin America.

Just like Iraq and its WMD's?

oh wait, it didnt have any and look whats happened to george and teflon's invasion.

160

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 23:24:04

#160ColinEdin
Love to live in your world. So nice and eassyyyy.
Oh Milosevich would hopefully be stopped by someone else.. cool man send them some blankets. The Falklands. Oh are they British. Oh can't be bothered. Libertanian course from year two I think.
Real folk ( our parents/ grandparents died to give us all this freedom so for fecks sake grasp it and protect it )

You guys need a rocket up the ARSE.
Stackin shelves won't give you any perspective on the world.

161

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 23:25:13

twinkles - is that code for total wan*** ?

162

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 23:32:51

#161

You think your more in touch with the man on the street? I'm sorry, if that were so you would be getting elected at the next election (I'll be watching my television screen that night and the BNP wont even register as a blip on the radar). If you were in touch with this nation we would have a BNP prime minister.

Can I ask you a question about Iraq then? If a foreign power were to invade Britain, would you get a gun and defend yourself or would you sit idly by? I'm guessing you would do the first option. Remember, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Although, I find both what our country is doing and what the insurgents are doing despicable, you BNP supporters have your heads so high in the clouds that you can only paint things as black and white.

The 7/7 bombings would never have taken place had we a more ethical foreign policy. Here is another example of your black and white mind, you think that if a libertarian like myself got into power we would immediately put everything into action? Of course not! These things must be planned and processed. We must first recall our troops home, stop meddling in others affairs, set more freedom into the economy so it has the ability to fluctuate and then open borders to free up that economy even more.

Organised crime caused by British citizens is okay, but when immigrants do it it is bad? Give me a break. We have political parties claiming to have a 'war on this' a 'war on that' in respect to the thing organised crime does. The government should have no say in what individuals decide to do with their time. That means drugs and prostitution should be up to the individual to choose to do them, not up to the state. Furthermore, regulation of these black markets and bringing them into the free market cuts the money away from the gangs, removes the dangers of bad quality goods from the users and provides a safe environment for both the producers of drugs and for the women who would work

163

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 23:38:11

.Bringing our troops home is one of our main aims of our party.

Thought you would know that being so well read

And this says it all what a ###### ##### you are

Quote from 160. ColinEdin

(Most people don't join the military to defend this country, they join because it is a job. You will also notice that the recruiting systems commonly prey upon poorer families for the military)

The above statement proves what an overly educated fool you are
My friends and colleagues were from all walks of life and wealth backgrounds. Entry into Sandhurst is a prime example of this, you get the extremely rich to the poor, but they all display an inner strength and determination to lead from the front and get the job done. Something you will never ever know about in your lifetime.
It is the epitome of British culture and full of people with love and pride in their country. They would die for each other, and they lead by example something you will never be able to comprehend.
From the lowest rank to the highest they are all an example to us all and I would vote against National service because people like you are not fit to serve with them, 1 BNP policy I am against.

God help our nation with people like you skulking around society, go on run to Mum and Dad and get your Bursary put up, maybe your nanny will change your diaper.

164

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 23:43:37

#164 callmedave

Great reply to twinkles there. Your logic astounds me...

#163

Milosevich would certainly be stopped by someone else, and you know it. There were more countries than just Britain involved, so stop being so pedantic.

I already replied to your comments about the Falkland islands and you have chosen to ignore them, so I won't say them again.

First you tell me that I should work in a supermarket for a week to get a perspective on the world. I tell you that I do work in a supermarket. You then tell me that working in a supermarket wont give me perspective on the world. You really need to sort out your argument style.

You then go onto insult me because I attend university. I never realised political discussions had an age limit! You really are pathetic.

My libertarianism has been fleshed out in countless books, articles and journals. So don't even bother insulting me when you don't even know the first thing about my life. Read some Friedman, Hayek, Nozick or even Jefferson before you insult the libertarian position which has been shown to work for over 200 years.

You have your head firmly in the clouds. Your socialist policies have been shown to do only absurd things in the past. Franco's Spain has only just recovered from the type of policies you want to implement. You would stifle our markets, take away our freedoms and ruin our nation.

You tell me to stand up and fight for my freedoms. I tell you, I will do, but not voting for the BNP on 3rd May. Your own manifesto proves you will not support our freedoms! You want to implement compulsory national service and remove the vote from those that refuse, so don't even attempt to deny it.

I have also said this before, and I will say it again. Stop bringing up the past. Libertarianism works for TODAY. I don't think what our grandparents did during WWII has any affect on what the political system of today should be, so stop bringing up fantastical hyp

165

callmedave,

fife 08/04/2007 23:46:16

#165Colin Edin
Wish folk like you would just f*** off
Muslims have built over 1,000 mosques in Britain. How many in Saudi ? Err nil.
If it wasn't for our poor foreign policy then we wouldn't have suffered from 7/7 ?
My friend was killed in Saudi 4yrs before any invasion of Iraq. The west bends over backwards to keep muslims happy and we get feck all in return form Saudi etc. Give me one country in the muslim world which gives citizenship to someone from another country. NONE.
Even Palestinians who live in saudi for generations get no citizenship. In the UK. No problem. 4Yrs. And bring your family please.
You know f*** all about how the world works.

166

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

Aberdeen 08/04/2007 23:50:03

and as for 166 says it all what a arghhhhhh

we liberated the country from its murdering leader, remember the same one that attacked Kuwait.
We then tried to rebuild Hospitals Schools etc, but the barbaric occupants are too busy trying to kill each other.
Yeah and the 7/7 bombings would have never have taken place just like Belsen School in Russia, 9/11.
I agree we should have sit idly back and allow Saddam to continue butchering people, Should have we have done the same with Hitler.
Id like to see the UN sort out all murdering rulers around the world so we can all live in peace in our own homelands. I won't answer anymore of your posts because you make me sick and are not worth the time of day.
Please wear your seatbelt and stick to the speed limit, God Bless you need help

167

twinkles,

08/04/2007 23:50:52

"The west bends over backwards to keep muslims happy and we get feck all in return form Saudi etc"

168. Callmedave.

Actually, BAE and Saudi Arabia have a rather good deal going between them. Should have watched newsnight about a month and a half ago.

168

ColinEdin,

08/04/2007 23:58:17

#166

They are called nappies in this country.

I don't get a bursary.

I don't just mean from Iraq, I mean from all over the world. I thought you would understand what strategic neutrality meant, especially since you claim to know what is best for the military of this nation.

I wouldn't join military service if it was compulsory, so you need not worry. In case you hadn't read earlier, pacifists don't normally join the military. I would choose prison over national service.

I have pride in my country, but my pride does not stem from militarism. I do not understand nor comprehend why you think that pride must be conjoined with militarism, are you that deluded?

The statistics of the MoD support the statement I quoted as well. You can find them here and look for yourself:

http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds/2000/ukds2000.pdf

Or maybe the data is irrelevant for you...

You then go onto insult me in various fashions. It just shows how weak and pathetic your arguments really are. It also goes to show just how anti-liberty the BNP really are. I find it funny that of all the people I have argued libertarianism with, it has always been those in the BNP and the far right that have opposed it. They are the chess players Adam Smith spoke of, and you are no different. Conformity, conformity, conformity.

We need political policies for the here and now, not for some past forgotten age.

I take it you think it takes no inner strength at all to be a pacifist? I take it you think the only way a human can show their courage or their might is by the destruction of another human being? I take it that the only way a human can have determination is by slinging a gun over their shoulder? Your morality and inability to provide for freedom and liberty of those that oppose you horrifies me. You would seek to silence me, and even cause violence as

169

callmedave,

fife 09/04/2007 00:03:52

#170 twinkles
Different topic really. We were talking about the defence of the UK.
The Al Yamamah contract is a no brainer.
We sell them really expensive stuff that they can't use ( kickbacks to princes keeps everyone happy)
We make lots of dosh in Britain. I mean who else would buy that s***
If they buy it and try to back out then we stop working on the planes. Squadron grounded in a week. Money suddenly re appears. Everyone happy again !

170

ColinEdin,

09/04/2007 00:04:36

#169

I don't need the blessing of a being that probably doesn't even exist.

#158

Nice of you to be so kindly to those who disagree with you. It is always the same with you fascists. I present detailed argument, you don't even reply to most of my points and then you go on and on and insult me at the same time.

It is clear to see you have no leg to stand on. I don't want to silence your opinion, but you would be perfectly happy to silence mine, which is apparent by your provocative postings. You want to defend the freedoms of your own kind, but not those who oppose you. Your policies will never work in the real world.

From your insults, it is clear to see that you have conceded the argument.

Can you please provide more details on your friends death. Furthermore, immigrants have been killed in this country many times by murderers. So your point is moot. Some individuals kill, end of. I am not concerned about that, we are talking about the state, the society, not about what one individual does.

171

callmedave,

fife 09/04/2007 00:20:59

#173ColinEdin
I think we don't reply to your so called detailed argument because we're more worldlywise than you and a quick scan shows us that it's total rubbish. Old mantra from an old prayerbook. Seen it done it dumped it.
I worked in Al Khobar in saudi in the oil industry. My friend who was almost 60 was shot on his way to work. The scum then tied him to the back of his car and dragged his body through Al Khobar. When they stopped his body was red pulp.
I've seen the brutality of Islam ( he was killed in the name of Islam ) and don't want it here thanks.

172

Edinburgh No More,

Canada 09/04/2007 00:43:30

After reading your article on the BNP I am surprised they do not receive more support. Rising crime due to the increase of Eastern Block countries. Muslim's wanting to make the UK a Muslim state. We have immigrants landing at every port who do not want to integrate into Scottish society. They want our benefits and free health care. Even those who have been here for generations do not want to be part of Scotland and they would not fight for freedom of any country and condem our government for helping those who are not as fortunate as us, such as Iraq. They spit at our traditions and culture but they want the same rights as everyone which they are entitled to but they also want additional rights as they claim they are victimised.
The refreshing thing about Canada is when immigrants arrive they want to be part of Canada and adapt to Canadian society. They are not given hand outs from the government and if they dont work they starve and dont receive health care hence they must have $20,000 on entry to help till they find employment.
Those immigrants who have been here for generations want to join the armed forces to help counties who live in fear from dictators.
Scotland does not care they just breed a nation of left wing whingers who are self centred, money motivated people who dont care about what happens to the working class who are most effected by the Eastern Block immigrants. Areas such as Craigmillar and Castlemilk have to deal with neighbours who cannot speak English, go around in large gangs trying to intimidate them.
Jack McConnell has a lot to answer for allowing so many into our country.
Have a look at crime stats on drink driving and rapes. The increase is due to Eastern Block males who think it is acceptable to drink and drive and have no respect for women.
Labour does nothing, SNP wont do anything so maybe we need the BNP. It is a pity Sein Fein dont have a candidates who look after their own and punish people who c

173

Edinburgh No More,

Canada 09/04/2007 00:49:33

Reply to ColinEdin.
So you would be happy to sit in jail if we had to fight another war because you are a coward.
You should be taken out and shot as the troops head out to war.
People died for your freedom would you die to give others freedom, dont think so. Coward.

174

Not Brian Taylor,

09/04/2007 01:01:47

#175/176 - Interesting you talk of "freedom" at the same time as advocating the introduction of IRA-style kneecappings and the murder of those who would disagree with your views.

So I suppose you and the BNP make decent bedfellows. Yet another keyboard warrior.

175

coco fae aus,

Australia 09/04/2007 01:37:54

Having left scotland almost two years ago, its sad to see that the state of politics continues to decline. I grew up in South Queensferry and on one occasion the BNP decided to hand out pamphlets outside the school gates. Not surprisingly, most people told them to "!@#$ off". In reading some of the comments above, I find it surprising that there is any support for the BNP especially as their manifesto seems to be comprised purely of the usual tub thumping rhetoric conserning Britain being flooded with immigrants and that we've nothing against them but......

The reason that the UK is in such dire straits can be contributed towards the political legacies left by the tories starting in 79 and with labour now. Instead of looking towards the bigotry of the BNP perhaps its time to approach the whole uk political arena with some new ideas. The apathy of voters needs to be addressed as does the inability of most politicians to carry out what they promise.

Why did I leave the UK? Outcome based education, tony blair, the marginalisation of the uk population, innefective pc politics, growing crime levels, the health system etc etc.

176

Truth Finder,

09/04/2007 08:34:13

Why did I leave the UK? Outcome based education, tony blair, the marginalisation of the uk population, innefective pc politics, growing crime levels, the health system etc etc.

********


Maybe you should come back and see how Scotland's culture has been diluted by unwanted immigrants, and how the Scots (thanks to inept leftist councils and crazy race laws from central govt) have become second class citizens in their own country.

177

ColinEdin,

09/04/2007 10:41:04

#176

The freedoms you so vigorously use in Canada?

You make me absolutely disgusted. I guess you think all those that refuse to fight are cowards. I guess you think when Gandhi was attacked by police in South Africa for his beliefs was a coward? You have absolutely no semblance of reality. Courage comes in many forms and as far as I am concerned it takes far more courage to stand against the blunt weapon of the police or the guns of the military than it does to just become a number of those institutions and to kill those who your government happens to be at war with. I maintain it is you who is the bloodthirsty coward. Bullies are always cowards deep down. You then call for my murder, that is your idea of freedom and democracy is it? You have absolutely no idea what those words even mean.

#174 Callmedave

Again, you refuse to reply and just dismiss it. Nice ad hoc logical fallacy there.

Your friend was killed by an individual who had perverted beliefs. Murders will always occur. There have been Christians who have killed in the name of God as well, why don't you type Andrea Yates into Google and see for yourself? Murders happen because murders happen. People who are too blinded by ideology will always do wrongful deeds. An example of that would be Edinburgh No More.

My views have been put into practice before, and they resulted in America becoming the richest nation on this planet. Yet you still dismiss them because you like revisionist history and you think you can force people into your 'utopia' and remove their freedoms in the process. I say it again, I will fight for my freedoms by not voting BNP in May. The same party that would remove my vote from me. Freedom, don't make me laugh, the BNP don't even know what it means.

178

Anthony,

Glasgow 09/04/2007 10:46:19

I fear quite a lot of people are going to vote BNP as a protest vote. We all know that major decisions have been taken in secret about aspects of our lives by politicians without consulting us. Poor people cannot access health treatment, and many feel scared to speak freely. Meanwhile our system is being apallingly abused, and anyone who dares speak up is branded "racist".

The multicultural experiment isn't working. And those who advocate it, are not the ones having to live with it. Does any of this justify the BNP? Of course not. But if the chattering classes would make half the effort of putting themselves in the shoes of the white poor, who are bearing the brunt of mass immigration for example, that they put into understanding asylum seekers, illegal immigrants and ethnic minorities generally, then they might understand the problem better.

If they don't make this effort, the white poor might just make the point for them, with a few shock results.

179

ColinEdin,

09/04/2007 14:19:08

Yes, wonderwoman, they do have a right to stand - and if they wish to use that right then we should not stop them.

I just wish they would grant that same right to others rather than issuing death threats...

180

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

09/04/2007 15:31:38

175 what a star you have hit the nail on the head as to what’s happening to our country.

I have only just recently joined the BNP. I am not racist, or hate anyone, but want my country back for my children.

The BNP’s ranks are swelling with normal everyday people like me, and anyone who accuses their supporters of the usual racist comments is way behind the times.
The lefties here go into history to try and prove themselves to be the intellectual elite, rather sad really.
The BNP are about what’s happening to our country now and in the future. The UN recognises the rights of the indigenous population, to its own land culture, way of life, history, and religion. So what our government is forcing on the Scottish people must be bordering on Illegal.
Why are people so blinkered to what’s happening in England, Almost all the areas that have been taken over by ethnics are now crime ridden, gang cultured hell holes.
White Flight is now an established political term WHY? We have Islam openly declaring war on the West, and the Lefties can’t handle the truth getting out about this. I know it’s embarrassing that your experiments have failed so miserably, But still they expect us to shut up and let it continue and become irreversible. Sorry my kids and grand children deserve better.

Aberdeen before the mass arrival of the East Europeans had the Balance right, the foreign people in the city were professional, integrated well, and our city was a good example of the right balance. The indigenous population did not feel threatened, by losing there own homeland. Now that has changed Asians are target buying and actively knocking on doors asking if people are selling their houses. This is the start of the Braford,isation of Aberdeen. Sorry if I’m a Racist for not wanting this to happen. My Indian friends in Aberdeen don’t want this to happen either. What does this make them? Hell a BNP member with Coloured friends best keep this quiet.

181

Aberdeen Group Organiser,

09/04/2007 15:48:09

Colin Edinburgh.... Please check the BNP policies we are the most Democratic Party and want to encourage the decisions being taken at the lowest level possible, I.e. the local level public having the chance to decide on issues that will effect them, at local and national level.
I would ensure you always had a vote and as for death threats where are they coming from. Id like to have the chance to take you for a pint because I am sure that you would leave with a less gloomy picture of the BNP and more empathy with the worries we have.
Please get the picture of BNP 80s 90s out of your head its changed days.

If ever up in Aberdeen or at my, Holyrood office after May the 3rd

And unlike other politician’s id listen to your worries and concerns and maybe leave you a bit more confident that the BNP will do the best for the people of Scotland/Britain

182

ColinEdin,

09/04/2007 17:50:31

#185

Your policy on implementing compulsory national service and removing the right to vote of pacifists and conscientious objectors is anti-democratic. That is why I made the statements I made. Your policies would deny me the right to vote and this makes you one of the least democratic parties in the country. No matter how much you say you are democratic, you are not if you continue with this policy.

Also, stop calling me a 'lefty', I am a libertarian. Lefties want to control the economy and everything it does and as a result make us all poorer. I would be interested to hear the BNP's economic policies and how they intend to improve the standard of living for the people they want to 'defend'.

As for the death threats, they have come to me from many BNP supporters on this very board, let me cite some examples:

#176

"You should be taken out and shot as the troops head out to war."

#163

"You guys need a rocket up the ARSE."

You yourself have also taken this argument down several notches by decided to insult me with pathetic platitudes rather than actually counter my arguments. See posts 131, 132, 161, 166 and 196 for examples of this.

So I would like you to please come back at me and tell me who removing the vote of those who refuse to take part in compulsory national service is democratic and I would like you to tell me how you would manage and improve the economy. I would also like to know how you manage to compensate for the 3% additional growth to the British economy that immigration has brought. Perhaps then we can start arguing without petty name calling.

183

ColinEdin,

09/04/2007 18:40:14

I have checked the BNP website like you told me to. I went straight to the economics section of the manifesto. You would bring absolute ruin to this nation, to our wealth, our prosperity and our free market! I will go through each policy:

"Globalisation, with its export of jobs to the Third World, is bringing ruin and unemployment to British industries and the communities that depend on them."

Complete assumption. Unemployment in Britain has actually gone down in the last 20 years. I would like some figures please.

"Accordingly, the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports."

This will decimate the British economy. Do the BNP seriously think that blocking trade with other countries will be seen as acceptable on the international stage? If we refuse to trade with others they will do exactly the same back to us! All the BNP will end up doing is circulating wealth around Britain without generating any.

"We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers."

This will be extremely bad for the free market. The only way I can see the BNP doing this is by forcing companies to hire who the government says they must. If the BNP think industries are going away in massive numbers, this policy will do all it can to complete that. The economy should be free from the long arm of the executive government.

"When this is done, unemployment in this country will be brought to an end, and secure, well-paid employment will flourish, at last getting our people back to work and ending the waste and injustice of having more than 4 million people in a hidden army of the unemployed concealed by Labour's statistical fiddles."

Although I do disagree with most of Labour's policies, it would be nice if the BNP actually provided figures for these complete assumpt

184

ColinEdin,

09/04/2007 18:49:56

"We will take active steps to break up the socially, economically and politically damaging monopolies now being established by the supermarket giants."

This is exactly the same attitude that causes monopolies to exist in the first place. Government intervention creates monopolies and always has done. We saw this in the emergent protectionist economies of the USA and 19th-20th century Germany. In the USA it lead eventually (after a series of other blunders) to the Wall street crash. In Germany it lead to Nazism and Socialism (c.f. A. F. Hayek, 'The Road to Serfdom') It seems that the BNP wish to take control of the economy in exactly the same way the socialists do. Funny how you always call them the 'reds' or the 'lefties' when in fact you are doing something almost identical to them. Fiddling with the economy in this fashion will lead to serfdom on servitude - it has in the past in Russia, Germany and Italy and it will do so again under the BNP.

"Finally we will seek to give British workers a stake in the success and prosperity of the enterprises whose profits their labour creates by encouraging worker shareholder and co-operative schemes"

Workers are free to do what they wish with their money and I am glad that you will only encourage and not enforce it. This policy however, seems very similar to the state property policies of the Marxists. The current system of share ownership is perfectly adequate and many companies already offer cut-price shares to their employees.

I can pretty much conclude that the BNP's economic policies are almost identical to those of the socialists. I really do suggest that members of the BNP really try to get their party to sort their economic policies out. They want to make Britain richer by throwing out immigrants, I would like to ask them how they intend to solve the problems which I have outlines above. How will they fund their future socialist welfare programmes after they have decimated

185

bmwj,

wishaw 10/04/2007 08:33:12

YOU have to ask yourself why the main political parties and the Media are constantly making innuendos about the British National Party.

They say that nobody will vote for the BNP.

If this is the case why not just ignore the fact when a BNP member is standing for election? Or is it the case that mainstream politicians have lost their way in this politically-correct society?

They need to stick their heads above the parapet and look at what’s happening in this country with regards to immigration-related problems.

186

Green Arrow,

South Wales 11/04/2007 10:21:38

Take the time and cast your minds back, and ask yourselves what have the Lib-Lab-Con parties done for you locally or nationally.. Your country.. and for the future of your children and grandchildren?

Don't be taken in by their spin of promises which always come just before the elections or local elections. Look at the crime levels of this country, probably the highest than in any other country.

Look at Immigration, no control whatsoever and now as they can't trace illegal immigrants they intend an amnesty for them.

Look at house prices and rented accommodation which is in crisis, again where we ever in this position before Labours reign of terror? And what about hospitals closing down, downgraded and moved? Not to mention the horrendous MRSA problems which we never had in the past!

Just take the time to look back and see if anything at all positive have come from their time in power? Lets look at one big accusation that the communists are shouting 'The BNP are a threat' a threat to what? the only threat the BNP pose are to those lazy councillors who have had a good time which are now threatened by the BNP for their positions!

There are much accusations thrown around at the BNP but never given any reasons, they say don't give the BNP a platform to speak, is this democracy? and are they that frightened that people would be informed and may want to vote for them?

Don't be afraid to rock the boat just because you may be lucky enough to be in a secure job for now, will your children have the same security in the future?

Really proud of you Scots B.N.P. guys.

187

eastend guy,

glasgow 11/04/2007 16:46:08

we live in a free country and the bnp have a right to stand in any election .
most people say the bnp dont have support in scotland can i ask why so many people want to try and smear them or attack them i think some of the big guns are running scared just incase people listen to what the bnp have to say ? its just a thought

188

Highlander53,

Aberdeen 12/04/2007 06:57:38

I think 191 beats the Christian debate. Many people out of thier pram today.
Would it not be good to have a right wing voice in the Scottish parliment debating about reducing the money doled out to Eastern Europeans and not paying foreigners to go back to thier own country. Perhaps then we would get a healthy balance.
Are the BNP Nazi's? Are they going to gas people? Perhaps a bit of an over reaction. I don't support them but the immigration issue needs a balance away from the politically correct stance that it's at currently.
Smash them? You need to go up to Ibrox mate. You'll find like minded individuals there if you want a scrap.

189

Blackie,

12/04/2007 14:15:08

The older I get the more I see the mistakes this country has made since the end of the Second World War. The BNP is just trying to correct stupid mistakes like letting in all these foreigners that will in the future destroy our culture and it will be the end of Christian civilisation as we know it. They sound radical, yes, but that is what needs to be done. We need a party with b___s.

190

Gaztron,

Glasgow 12/04/2007 15:15:30

Well I'm seriously contemplating voting BNP in May. I know a lot of their policies are a bit radical, but all parties have some dubious issues. I don't think anyone can deny that we have an immigration problem. The amount of Eastern europeans that have invaded us and taken our jobs recently is ridiculous. Its got to the stage that employers are taking on these poles or whoever ahead of locals.

We need to act now.


 

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