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McLeish backs SNP debate on independence

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Published Date: 23 March 2008
By Eddie Barnes
FORMER Labour first minister Henry McLeish will this week give his support to the SNP's "national conversation" on independence for Scotland.
But Labour MSPs last night dismissed claims that the SNP had scored a coup by winning McLeish to their cause, declaring he was "discredited" in the eyes of the public. They also accused Alex Salmond of wasting taxpayers' money on a cause that has no
mandate.

This week, Salmond will launch what he describes as the second phase of the "conversation" at Edinburgh University. Ministers say they want to involve Scotland's "great institutions".

McLeish, who ran the former Scottish Executive from 2000 to 2001, said: "We need an open and inclusive conversation to discuss our future, one in which all the positive options are included – the current devolution settlement, more powers, independence and also a form of federalism."

He added: "The key thing is that these ideas are debated in terms of how they will deliver a better quality of life for everyone who lives in Scotland – better health, housing, economic performance and education. The national conversation and constitutional development should be the means to these vital ends."

But Labour MSP Lord Foulkes said: "I think he is discredited. People will just say, 'Oh well, there goes Henry again'."

Parallel to the SNP's "conversation", Labour, the LibDems and the Tories have set up a constitutional commission to study devolution.





Page 1 of 1

 
1

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 23/03/2008 00:14:37
Welcome aboard Henry, hopefully more of your former colleagues see sense.
2

karinxx,

23/03/2008 00:27:38
I have to say that henry mcleish is making perfect sense. At least when he got caught with his snout in the trough the man had the dencency to resign. Fair play to him.
3

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 23/03/2008 00:34:16
#3 Poor poor out of step Am2. Come on son shake off this terrible mood you're in and try to embrace a brighter future.
4

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 23/03/2008 00:44:09
#6 No feller you were quite right the first time.

It's a heavy burden you carry, you should let some others help you carry it, unfortunately most of them on these boards seem a tad irrational at the best of times. Now off to bed young feller me lad, have fun with your chocolate eggs in the morning.
5

Edward,

23/03/2008 00:49:08
#3, #5 & #6 AM2
As usual your talking drivel!
If your going to contribute something to the debate, why not be more constructive in your arguement.
The fact is the SNP government HAVE put three options forward in the national conversation, for the people of Scotland to discuss and debate. Those being 1 Full Independece and the disolution of the Union with England. 2 More powers for Holyrood and 3 Status quo with no change
Now in recent polls it has emerged that the vast majority want either Independence or at the very least increased powers. A very small number want the status quo.
So you say your in step with about two thirds of Scots, well thats refreshing as that means that your in support of full independence or the very least increased powers!
6

subrosa,

23/03/2008 00:50:59
# 3 AM2
'1. It’s clearly a propaganda exercise masquerading as a consultation'

Isn't that what the Labour party get together is?

'2. Every comment is pre-approved by a moderator'

At least the public get a chance to put their opinion. British labour haven't even offered the SNP that courtesy.

'3. It’s not, as claimed, inclusive. '

It's a sight more inclusive than the labour get together.

'4. SNP activists and diehards have sought to dominate the threads, '

That's a very sweeping statement and quite incorrect.

Perhaps SNP supporters use these threads because of the general biase in the media. I agree they do seem greater in number than unionists but therein lies another story.


7

,

23/03/2008 01:08:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Ubi,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 01:22:53
And I cannot think of a more discredited mouthpiece than George Foulkes. Following a lifetime with his not inconsiderable hooter permanently grounded in the trough of public largesse his duty to return to the service of his re-adopted country became pressing only after a shifty sinecure at Gorgie Road began to stink.

I think people will say, "There goes Foulkes again. Must be something in it for him somewhere."
9

Willie Macleod,

Wick 23/03/2008 01:40:11
I agree with Henry Mcleish we must have a full free debate on all options and a referendum this is the only way to settle this, so we can move on whatever the outcome of a referendum. Henry is not discredited.
10

frank mcbride,

lusitania 23/03/2008 02:17:35
The breech is coming, and very soon.

NuLab is in meltdown.

The only question is: will the enlightened join the SNP,temporarily or, will they be foolish enough to form another Party and permit another right-wing government at Westminster.

There is no future for them, and no hope of social justice, in the Westminster system.
11

,

23/03/2008 04:43:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 23/03/2008 04:46:28
Well here we go Lord Foukes up trying to stop the SCOTTISH PEOPLE from having their voice again. The labour party in SCOTLAND is in decline and F up Foulkes is holding his breath untill he picks up his retirement pention. The sooner him and his types are off the SCOTTISH scene the better for all honest people.
13

Talorthane,

Lennoxtown 23/03/2008 07:39:08
' But Labour MSP Lord Foulkes said: "I think he is discredited. People will just say, 'Oh well, there goes Henry again'." '

Oh for Foulkes sake, there goes George again.
14

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 08:09:05
18. "I think he is discredited. People will just say, 'Oh well, there goes Henry again'." said Labour MSP Lord Foulkes from the gutter, where he was rolling on an old lady, drunk, having battered a policeman.
15

brownlie,

glasgow 23/03/2008 08:29:39
Leave the beaky Baron alone - he is perfect as the public face of New Labour.
16

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 08:54:13
The left wing of the Scottish Labour Party are finally awakening. Could that be some of those once so called socialists who were silenced by Brown and Blair ten years ago.

The same Socialists who backed Independance for Scotland, until they were beaten down by New Labours Spin Merchants who couldnt lie straight in bed. Well you are all welcome to come over to the Scottish Way, either through the SNP or a New Real Scottish Labour Party, dedicated to the end of the Act of Union, and willing to work for the betterment of the Scottish Nation in an Independant Scotland.

Brown and the rest of the tossers in New Labour are traitors to their Nation and do not represent the Scottish Nation. They are all finished in what used to be their country. You lot dont need to be if you take up the right of Scots to run their own country.
17

Nina Cairns,

Bucks 23/03/2008 09:30:19
Bugge r of Henry and get a hair cut.
18

Roy,

23/03/2008 09:45:43
But Labour MSP Lord Foulkes said: "I think he is discredited. People will just say, 'Oh well, there goes Henry again'."

Pot and kettle come to mind.
19

portonian,

falkirk 23/03/2008 09:46:42


we are trying to get rid of dishonesty in scotland

there can be NO PLACE for henry mcleish in the

S N P

go back to where you belong henry with the fiddle

section of the orchestra



20

Grant,

Scotland 23/03/2008 10:30:39
AM2:

"4. SNP activists and diehards have sought to dominate the threads, responding in rhetorical terms to virtually every post which expresses a non-independence viewpoint and drowning out any possibility for measured exchanges of views."

I don't know about them being SNP activists, but I certainly see a lot of well argued pro-independence stuff in there. It is called winning the intellectual argument, and independence/more powers (basically one and the same thing) are winning the intellectual argument. Unionism, on the other hand is not flavour of the month in Scotland, England or anywhere else.
21

Queen D,

Glasgow 23/03/2008 10:36:05
Yep , I've noticed that the English are waking up too!
It would seem that London domination is going to have some hard times in the future!
C'mon England ,c'mon wee Wales!
22

King Billy.,

Big SNP held Govan 23/03/2008 10:49:24
I to have seen what the SNP are doing and they have my full 100% support. what is it you scots say when i walk into your homes? HAIL HAIL ITS KING BILLY.
23

Linda,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 10:55:31
Pots and kettles come to mind when rent a quote Lord Foulkes says " think he is discredited. People will just say, 'Oh well, there goes Henry again'."
24

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/03/2008 10:55:37
#5 AM2

23% support for independence? I suspect you are using the results of a flawed poll which you have selected simply because it suits your purposes.

I would put the figure in the range 40 - 45% with a significant additional number open to the idea of independence under certain circumstances.

The fact that the three leaders of the Scottish opposition parties are dead against holding a referendum is ample reason to conclude that their analysis is closer to mine than yours.
25

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 23/03/2008 11:05:11
How soon before Wee Jock McDonald too follows suit and backs the conversation?
26

Linda,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 11:40:44
AM2 At least you can take part in the National Conversation while Wendy's puppet Commission specifically excludes the independence option.
27

karinxx,

23/03/2008 12:27:52
39 Am2 complete tosh and you know it.

"less well-defined principle of periodically adjusting the devolution settlement to make it work better in Scotland’s favour."

funny how labour never thought of adjusting the devolution settlement before the snp got in. In fact all the unionist parties were dead set against it.

and how does handing powers back to westminster favour the devolution settlement and the scottish people.

Funnily enough when wendy drew up the devolution settelement with d dewar she thought those powers were okay is she now saying you know what scotland i was wrong give us those back.

As usual AM2 spinbot you have no coherent arguement.

and as for your dodgy stats go away you are a discreditied doommonger.
28

karinxx,

23/03/2008 12:31:53
okay who wants to play the labour spin game in reverse.

How you play is that you say something that has no basis in fact and tell as many people as you can.

labour plays it with a negative spin

for example
border guards
5000 tax bills.

Now the snp can play this game too only you get to put a positive spin on it.

For example

When scotland becomes independent child benefit will increase by 50 percent to deal with scotlands lack of population growth.
29

Publius,

London 23/03/2008 12:46:27
Henry McLeish? Who?

SNP won't get referendum vote passed in this Parliament. SNP probably will form government in next Parliament but still won't have enough seats to get referendum vote passed. By then Alex Salmond will have had enough and will resign from the party leadership like he did before.

Question for all you SNP suppporters. What then?
30

karinxx,

23/03/2008 13:34:49
oh dear publius what happened to the snp will be out at the next election. How does it feel publius to have to continually perform mental gymnastics where the fortunes of the labour party are concerned.

Everything labour does now is just reaction to the snp.
They are not the acting party they are reactive.
Labour will never match the snp because they take their orders from london. Every single thing they do is decided not on scottish issues but on UK issues. The snp are the only party that truly speaks for scots because they are the only ones that can.
31

Grant,

Scotland 23/03/2008 13:54:54
#37 AM2

It has nothing to do with the volume of posts. Certainly there are a minority of posts in there, from Unionists as well as Nationalists which are total dross, but that isn't my point, and you well know it.

There are many posts in there, which are logical, intellectual and rational and from Nationalists. Which is why I suspect you wouldn't want any neutral person to browse that forum and read the comments and why you are quite happy to condemn it (because it doesn't fit with your own views). There's nothing stopping anybody having a view or posting there. If Unionists can defend their points in debate, then that is symptomatic of the weakness of their own position.

Certainly on a personal level, I think that independence has won the intellectual debate, I don't see any intellectual or rational reason behind those posting in favour of the Union. I see fears, smears and what Scotland "cannae dae" instead of what it "shouldnae dae" and that, I think, speaks volumes for the state of Unionism in Scotland in 2008.
32

Publius,

London 23/03/2008 14:01:53
#karinxx
I don't support labour. At the last election I voted SNP. All things being equal, I think labour will lose the next Scottish election because it won't have sorted itself by 2010.
All things being equal, I think the SNP will be the largest party after the next Holyrood election, simply because the governing party usually gets a run of 2 or 3 election wins. But to deliver an independence referendum the SNP will need more than half the seats at Holyrood and I don't see that. To win more than half the seats, it will need more than half the votes. No party has won more than half the vote in Scotland since the Tories in 1955.
But all things won't be equal if the SNP fiddles with the taxation system. Parties that introduce new taxes are often punished by the voters. Let's hope the SNP drops local income tax before it damages the party.
33

Anthony,

Glasgow 23/03/2008 14:08:12
Who is this guy foulkes? He just seems to get wheeled out whenever there's a dirty job to be done, and then gets put back in his box. I think someone somewhere is under the delusion that he's seen as some sort of elder statesman or something!?! Well, the 'state' bits right I suppose.

Henry McLeish must be having a great time. He's getting his revenge on his former colleagues who plunged their rusty daggers in his back, and gloating at how they have done nothing but go down hill since they did the political equivalent of an assasination job on him. That said, he has actually supported dialogue on Scotland's constitutional future for some now, so I reckon although he's enjoying himself, his views are sincere.
34

pehman,

sussex 23/03/2008 14:11:45
All this talk of a slab left wing (socialist ? in a slab context)it should be remembered that at or just before wendy's "election campaign" that these same so called socialists, couldn't get 6 members to vote against her
35

subrosa,

23/03/2008 14:53:33
The unionist talking shop proposed by labour won't decide a thing. It's all smoke and mirrors to detract from the SNP's national conversation. If it did have any substance it would be in the headlines weekly wouldn't it. The last we heard of it they'd all trotted down to Westminster to meet with the power-mad, then Gordon said it wasn't a convention, then not a dickie bird.
36

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 15:06:02
AM2 from yesterday. You say I have made false allegations regarding you please do elaborate as I cannot respond to the hypothetical.

As to your false allegation on my good name thank you for your retraction.
37

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 23/03/2008 15:43:09
AM2 Slowly but inexorably your statistics are becoming meaningless, your hatred of those wishing to have Independence increases as your so-called facts are shown to be anything but! The current incumbents at Holyrood are in most commentators' opinion doing pretty well with a stack of cards weighted against their more radical targets. On the ground the citizens of Scotland are gradually seeing the worth in the aims of current Ministers. By comparison Westminster New Labour and Scottish Labour are rightly being shown as out of touch, spineless and spiteful. The so-called prudence of Brown over ten years is now shown to be a fortunate exploitation of a false fiscal benefit which is now in crisis.Your explanation for the legality of the Iraq war does not stand up to scrutiny and how you can make a case for the virtue of being part of a corrupt and neo-con loving political framework at Westminster defies logic. Of course coming from Ulster you will be well aware of honesty and democracy in government.
38

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 18:03:41
#55.
"Any regular reader of these forums will know that you are incessantly trying, and failing, to utilise bullyboy tactics against me."

So by your own words I am not utilising bully boy tactics. I have failed to utilise bully boy tactics, I agree, it is not me. Thankyou I would hate to think I was a bully.


Oh my bleeding heart the troll is a victim. If you are not seeking to play the victim card it is the racist card, what an utter fraud.

A lie is a lie and you are a class one liar, I have proved as much on many occasions.

I keep asking you but you keep ducking. What exactly do you think you are achieving by your continual spinning and lying and twisting facts and figures to support your lies, what is the out come you hope to see. Do your seriously imagine that your behavior on here since this time last year has stopped one single vote going to the SNP.

It is recognised by Liebour and all the unionist parties that the negative patronising propaganda tactics that you deploy was one factor in the destruction of the Liebour and unionist vote.

But quite apart from that, year on year for the past 15 years at least we have seen the SNP vote steadily increasing until they made the break through they were never supposed to make. Would you not be better collecting flies and pulling their wings of or something?

Must go and pack, great week ahead.

ALBA GU BRATH.
39

,

23/03/2008 18:13:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 18:52:17
"But Labour MSPs last night dismissed claims that the SNP had scored a coup by winning McLeish to their cause, declaring he was "discredited" in the eyes of the public.

Is this yet another national referendum I have managed to miss?? did anybody get the full results of this public poll by any chance??

They also accused Alex Salmond of wasting taxpayers' money on a cause that has no mandate."

Ah unlike the enquiries into the First Ministers non breaking of the law and his non breaking of the ministerial codes and his no wrong doing concerning the Donald Trump NON affair.
41

subrosa,

23/03/2008 18:58:45
# 53 That's the kind of meaningless rhetoric I've come to expect from nationalists

You really do hit depths beyond comprehension. Are you saying the majority of the population are so uneducated and unable to sort out the wood from the trees? Aye right.

Meaningless rhetoric? I've been listening to that from the labour party possibly since you were a twinkle in your father's eye and I've finally realised I was duped for 50 years.

So continue to defend the indefensible. I enjoy the laugh.
42

Pedro-snr,

Ayrshire 23/03/2008 19:02:25
What has surprised me is that it has taken this long for the reality to dawn on the many Labour supporters whose aim is to benefit the lives of the ordinary people of Scotland. The Labour party that most of them knew is no more.

Alex Salmond's Government are clearly demonstrating that they have taken on this mantle and it can only be a matter of time before many good, honest Labour supporters, members, councillors and even MSPs recognise this fact and come over to the light.

As Henry McLeish is obviously in the process of doing.
43

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 19:17:29
5

This support for Devolution how is it broken down between Devolution Min and Devolution Max??
How many want more powers and how many dont?
How many want the minimum of powers transferred?
How many want the maximum of powers transferred?
How many want something inbetween?
How many want something inbetween the inbetween?
How many want something inbetween the inbetween the inbetween??

My point being of course is that if a referendum comes then the devolution vote will be spilt depending on how many devolution options there are.
So if yer hoping to save the union on the devolution vote then yer trully f*cked.
44

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 23/03/2008 19:25:40
63

Yep! that sums it up nicely for me. They have been lied to and deceived for over 300 years they are still being lied to and deceived you only have to read this rag to see the proof of it.
That of course doesnt excuse their gulliblity and laziness to think for themselves but when they do shift their collective a*ses and decide to vote for change they will do it overwhelmingly and all at once.
You see it in Goven at nearly every election and by election massive swing one way and then a massive swing the other and then back again and so on and so forth.
But when Independence is acheived there will be no goin back so it only has to happen once.
45

Charles1234,

23/03/2008 19:52:21
Dear AM2,

I think the impression you should actually read the national conversation because it is open to discussions on more powers and isn't restricted to independence only - however much the London parties would like to portray it as.

Whish only begs the question why they are so afraid to involve themselves, preferring instead to have behind closed door meetings with no consultation with the public. Doesn't really show unionism in a meritocratic or democratic light if they exclude the public from consultation.

As for your polls you missed these two by System 3 which show a movement to independence:

System 3/TNS, September 07 - Yes 41% / No 59%
System 3/TNS, December 07 - Yes 48% / No 52%

But at least (it looks) that you are not repeating that mistaken meme, like others do, that no poll has never shown support for independence since there are plenty to choose from:

YouGov, April 06 - Yes 54% / No 46%
YouGov, September 06 - Yes 51% / No 49%
ICM, October 06 - Yes 57% / No 43%
YouGov, November 06 - Yes 52% / No 48%
ICM, November 06 - Yes 60% / No 40%
ICM, January 07 - Yes 59% / No 41%
ICM, February 07 - Yes 51% / No 49%

Which again begs the question of why the London parties are so afraid of discussing it rationally withy the public since the tides of opinion show that it can be favoured.

As is the feeling of inevitability which begs the question of why they want to keep their heads in the sand and refuse to discuss possible routes and road maps should the public opt for it. You know, smoothing the path for the option that is democratically agreed to even if it is not the one you favour:

Scotland will become Independent in the future

ICM, January 07 - Yes 61% / No 39%
YouGov, August 07 - Yes 67% / No 33%

Finally a poll that shows a referendum - with independence on the ballot - is the most favoured option of the public:

Sunday Times YouGov Poll, August 07

Multi-option referendum with independence & more powers - 44%
46

Charles1234,

23/03/2008 20:00:05
Anyway, these are exciting times in Scotland. There has been for some years a sense of new-found confidence.

Walk the streets of Glasgow, Inverness or Dumfries; look inside the offices of Dundee, Stirling and Greenock or the boardrooms of Aberdeen. You can feel and see the growing confidence.

We have more jobs, more modern apprenticeships than ever before, a better infrastructure and fast growing dynamic industrial and commercial sectors.

Our entrepreneurs and their ideas, drive and skill are there for all the world to see.
47

Saul Tyre,

Germany 23/03/2008 20:00:23
The MRUK Cello poll published in the Sunday Times shows that:

* Two-thirds of Scots say that they would vote for independence in certain circumstances.

Meaning only ONE THIRD of Scots are totally against independence.
48

Charles1234,

23/03/2008 20:01:49
I see I was cut short. So to finish my second from previous post.

Finally a poll that shows a referendum - with independence on the ballot - is the most favoured option of the public:

Sunday Times YouGov Poll, August 07

Multi-option referendum with independence & more powers - 44%
Independence-only referendum - 30%
No referendum - 16%


So it all comes back to why the London parties are so afraid to join a PUBLOIC consultation and let the public have their say. Their position appears so 19th century - early pre-Reform Act 19th century.
49

,

23/03/2008 20:21:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

HEN BROON 5,

23/03/2008 20:22:07
The election win on the 3rd. of May 2007 was spectacular when you consider that the media in Scotland was at the time 100% owned and manipulated by the unionist cause. It has rattled the teeth of westminster and so we will continue to do until independence day which is not very far of.

Just another example of a Liebour liar caught by the short and curlies.


http://tinyurl.com/237cf8


ALBA GU BRATH.
51

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 23/03/2008 20:52:49
Lets have the debate by all means - Scotland can rule itself in the same way as Kozova, Zimbabwe, Cuba, China etc but the real question is will we prefer to live in an independent Scotland or as part of the nations comprising the United Kingdom? I for one believe the later is preferable and will defend this position as long as I live.
52

Charles1234,

23/03/2008 21:04:56
"Scotland can rule itself in the same way as Kozova, Zimbabwe, Cuba, China"

Odd choice of nations. Since we are in north west Europe and culturally similar to the like of Canada, New Zealand and Australia why didn't you choose those ones?

"the real question is will we prefer to live in an independent Scotland"

Then let's have a referendum.

"or as part of the nations comprising the United Kingdom"

The UK is not constitutionally comprised of nations. It's a unitary state therefore constitutionally it is the "nation". You're remark seems like you are saying that there is some sort of equal partnersjhip between what are the original nations of the UK. There isn't. Sovereignty is at Westminster.

Does this mean that you would support a UK made up of four sovereign nations sharing institutions they have commonly agreed to share? If so you would find yourself in the same position as many nationslists.

"I for one believe the later is preferable and will defend this position as long as I live."

Fair dos. But that would make you a unionist for life isntead of a liberal.

53

 Ayrshire Scot™,

23/03/2008 21:05:35
74. Will you continue to defend that position with mind-numbingly boring posts for as long as you live, or will you adopt other tactics?
54

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 23/03/2008 21:54:31
AM2 56
Iraq War. Illegality is not rhetoric it is fact! You take the easy option "it is untested in law". Wrong! The legal case was deliberately denied by Blair and Co. Enquiries are limited by the remit pre-determined by the government.Who determined the remits for the Hutton and Butler enquiries? Answers on a fag packet! The true position in law was given by the deputy legal adviser to the government, Elizabeth Wilmshurst and the Lord Chancellor. It was illegal. However Goldsmith changed his mind between the 7th March and the 13th March just when Blair and Cambell needed legal assurances. Elizabeth Wilmshurst and other legal experts resigned (under pressure) when Goldsmith did Blair's bidding and said it was legal.An independent legal enquiry would have shown these facts and Blair and his crew would have been under oath to state their case. They would have failed! Jack Straw even had damning evidence blanked from the official papers. AM2's reference to 1441 holds no credibility. THERE WAS NO I.L.E. Re Ulster. Is Ulster not a synonym for Northern Ireland? And I implied no "prejudice" in that synonym. As a youth from Ulster did no parental prejudices affect your upbringing? If not you are indeed one in a million or so! Any thoughts on whether Eire would like to become part of the U.K. and N.I.?
55

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 24/03/2008 00:18:07
But Labour MSP Lord Foulkes said: "I think he is discredited. People will just say, 'Oh well, there goes Henry again'."

I'm afraid not m'Lud. But people will say "there goes Foulkes again". You are getting a not-so-creditable name for yourself with your silly media comments.
56

David MacVicar,

web 24/03/2008 18:48:45
More bad news for Labour whatever way you look at it.

The 'conversation' is certainly a bit of a chat with me, myself and I. However, what choice did the SNP have? The others walked out but it was a central piece of the SNPs pre-election manifesto.

The Unionist parties could have used force of numbers to weight the 'conversation' towards union benefits and and have a large voice. Are they the majority or aren't they?

Instead they went in the huff and ran behind Wendy to Westminster to see what they should do next. Gordon took charge and now what do they have?

It certainly isn't a forum for constitutional change that any clear thinking Scottish voter wants.

The current unionist politicians seem to be completely blind to what the Scottish public are looking for and that public will severely punish them for this mistake.

 

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