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Salmond rejects call to open his diaries

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Published Date: 21 June 2009
ALEX Salmond is continuing to reject calls for him to open up his diaries, amid evidence he claimed for food costs at Westminster two years ago despite rarely attending the Commons.
The First Minister, who is still an MP, claimed the full £400-a-month allowance permissible to MPs during the first four months of 2007, when he was leading the SNP's successful election campaign.

His spokesman acknowledged last week that, fo
r one of the months claimed for, April, Salmond had not been in London once. He said the claim in April had actually been made for the previous month. But analysis shows that, in January, February and March of 2007, Salmond voted at the Commons on just eight days.

Scots Conservative leader Annabel Goldie last night repeated her call for the First Minister to publish all his diaries for the past four years to prove he was in London when claiming the allowance.

Last month, it emerged that the First Minister had claimed the full £400 allowance in the summer of 2005, when the parliament was not even sitting. After becoming First Minister in May 2007, he voted on just six days at the Commons, but still claimed £1,391 on food.

A Tory spokesman said: "Alex Salmond is on record as saying that during 2007/08 he was in London for around 30 days – and he also said the correct figure for the food allowance was £1,391.50, which equates to £40 per day."

However, the SNP say that all Salmond's claims will be placed before an independent panel being set up to assess all MPs' expenses. Salmond's spokesperson said: "Alex and all SNP MPs are in a very strong position in going before the independent audit. Indeed, Alex has pressed for the audit to be conducted in early course, and it should now be done during August and September. No SNP MP has ever flipped a house, claimed for moats, duck islands, chandeliers, phantom mortgages, or engaged in any of the other shenanigans to have emanated from Westminster."



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 20 June 2009 9:33 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Politicians' expenses
 
1

Jerry Springer,

20/06/2009 19:43:34
Alex Salmond is clearly running scared.

What does he have to hide?

The big finger of suspicion is pointing right at him.

The last thing Scotland needs is a First Minister with a cloud of doubtful expense claims following him wherever he goes.
2

Jerry Springer,

20/06/2009 23:11:02
#2

Salmond claimed the full amount for EVERY month.

So clearly it makes no difference if he claimed for one month in arrears.
3

Castaway™ ,

21/06/2009 00:14:33
New questions over Salmond food claims
Published Date: 07 June 2009
That has led to Annabel Goldie, the Conservative leader, writing to Salmond asking him to publish his official diary for the two months

Salmond hits back in claims row
Published Date: 08 June 2009
Annabel Goldie, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, repeated her call for Mr Salmond to publish his diaries in full.

Under-fire MP claims local party support
Published Date: 08 June 2009
Scottish Conservatives have questioned Mr Salmond's claim for £400 a month for food in London for the two months.

Salmond faces new questions over his food bills
Published Date: 19 June 2009
Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie said: "As I said before regarding Mr Salmond's food claims for the summer of 2005, there needs to be transparency.

and now

Salmond rejects call to open his diaries
Published Date: 21 June 2009
Scots Conservative leader Annabel Goldie last night repeated her call for the First Minister to publish all his diaries
4

Fifi la Bonbon,

21/06/2009 00:46:19
Non story. Mister Salmond's diary is already on the internet for all to see.

http://tr.im/pc9c
5

,

21/06/2009 01:09:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

CallumIain,

Isle of Lewis 21/06/2009 01:22:56
This could be one of the most serious and far-reaching abuses yet. The untypical prevarication suggests deep-seated fears that this one is going to blow.
Another clue is the number of placemen being ordered to write in newspapers and online that it is a non-story.
7

Castaway™ ,

21/06/2009 02:00:27
Last month, it emerged that the First Minister had claimed the full £400 allowance in the summer of 2005, when the parliament was not even sitting.

So did this this Scottish Labour Party Constituency MP, their food allowance claim during 2007 was for a total of £3800 including the full £400 allowance per month during the 2007 summer recess when the parliament was not even sitting.
Parliament summer recess 26 Jul 2007 to 8 Oct 2007
2-07-07 to 31-07-07 claimed 31-07-07 for £400
1-08-07 to 31-08-07 claimed 31-08-07 for £400
1-09-07 to 30-09-07 claimed 30-09-07 for £400
1-10-07 to 31-10-07 claimed 22-10-07 for £400

Notice the date claimed was the last day of that current month which means they either returned to London to submit the claim or they were staying in London during the summer recess or just happened to be in London on the days that the claims were submitted or the claims were submitted before the summer recess for the months during the recess ?
I trust Iain Gray MSP, East Lothain will ask to see this MPs diary to prove under what circumstances lead that MP to claim the full £400 allowance per month during the parliament summer recess ?
P.S. The above MP like our FM Alex Salmond did nothing wrong when claiming the max food allowance so why only our FM ?
8

Colkitto,

River Clyde 21/06/2009 02:02:05
Bo-rring. It's like the Forsyte Saga ffs !
9

Herry Oaksters,

21/06/2009 04:52:00
Yaaaaawwwwwnnnn
10

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 05:38:38
#1 Rufus

“The big finger of suspicion is pointing right at him”

Would that be your brown one?
11

G.Campbell,

21/06/2009 07:05:36
The campaign to force Annabel Goldie and Iain Gray to empty out the contents of their handbags starts here.
12

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 07:05:57
Ah Bully Boy, once again you have 'hurt me to the quick' as you would say.
13

M78,

Tain 21/06/2009 08:31:07
Once again Barnes and the Hootsmon leave themselves open to ridicule by printing yet another attempt to critisise Alec Salmon which is already in the public domain, as I have already said, is there no end to the desperation of the johnstone press to do down Scotland's party? Why don't you print more stories about the noble baron.
14

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 09:05:00
#15 Now that is a rather vivid description. Does it perhaps depict yourself?
15

Tynietiger,

21/06/2009 09:23:23
How many times does the Johnston Press continue to regurgitate this non story. Virtually every MP claims round figures for food. In the years in question Alex Salmond was # 503 in list of MPs claiming from taxpayer (see Daily Telegraph supplement on Saturday).

Alistair Darling's flipping of four houses in 4 years is a much greater and more expensive abuse of public money.
16

Tynietiger,

21/06/2009 09:26:30
Alex Salmond is completely relaxed about his expenses and wiped the floor with the feeble opposition leaders including Goldie at FMQ on Thursday.
17

Tynietiger,

21/06/2009 09:28:18
A bigger scandal about Lib Dem John Barrett who with his wife runs ABC Productions Ltd from his constituency office to publish Lib Dem newsletters throughout Edinburgh and pays his firm to do this at taxpayers expense. (see Sunday Herald this morning).

Or Jim Murphy flipping his house twice at taxpayers expense. (see Sunday Herald)
18

TWC,

exLabour 21/06/2009 09:52:23
Yes Morphy seems to attract little crticism from Scottish press, another sign of bias.
19

Herry Oaksters,

21/06/2009 10:00:15
NON Story.
Salmond is worth every penny and more.
20

Marian,

21/06/2009 10:00:28
Just for the record here is a list of Scots New Labour Party Constituency MPs who claimed for the food allowance during part of the summer recess of Parliament, from published listings 18 June 2009.

Alistair Darling 1 Aug 2006 to 31 Aug 2006 £300
Anne Moffat 1 Aug 2007 to 31 Aug 2007 £400
Anne McGuire 1 July 2006 to 31 Sept 2006 £800
Michael Martin 1 Aug 2005 to 31 Oct 2005 £200 pm
Brian Donohoe 16 Aug 2006 to 31 Aug 2006 £200
Jim Devine 1 Aug 2007 to 31 Aug 2007 £ 300
Jim Murphy 1 Aug 2005 to 30 Sept 2005 £600
Jim Murphy 1 Aug 2004 to 31 Aug 2004 £400
Jimmy Hood 1 Aug 2007 to 27 Aug £200
David Cairns 1 Aug 2006 to 30 Sep 2006 £138
Gavin Strang 1 Aug 2006 to 31 Aug 2006 £300
John McFall 1 Aug 2006 to 31 Aug 2006 £100
Rosemary McKenna 1 Jul 2005 to 30 Sep 2005 £400

Some of the MPs above and others also claimed food allowances outwith or inclusive of the above dates. If these New Labour MP's did nothing wrong then we have to assume that the unionists their media acolytes in Scotland don't appear to want to let the facts get in the way of what they think is a good story (or smear in this case) on Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond.

Also for the record the Sunday Times on 7 June 2009 reported that:-

Alex Salmond issued a statement demanding an apology from the Conservatives, and described the attack as “disgraceful”.

“I was in London in both August and September, securing an unfurnished rented flat and other engagements, and during that period also paid bills from the Commons refreshment department incurred during the parliamentary session,” said the statement.

“I have never claimed I was in London during all of these two months, any such suggestion is absurd. I am delighted to have my expenses judged by the independent audit of all MPs’ claims and make all information available to them, and am entirely confident that the position is rock solid. How many Tory MPs can say that?”

A spokesman for the Commons said that MPs can pay for
21

Marian,

21/06/2009 10:00:52
continued.........

A spokesman for the Commons said that MPs can pay for refreshments and food on account, adding: “Statements issued in early August will include all new charges to the account posted during July and it is normal that we will receive payment during the summer recess for charges incurred before the recess.”
22

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 10:05:27
2 Star spangled bannock

'You claim for one month in arrears.'


No you don't.

The claim form for April is dated 20th May.

23

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 10:06:42

This is reminiscent of the story that sunk McLetchie.


24

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 10:07:46
You would think that Salmond earned enough from his 3 salaries. But no. He has to rip off the taxpayer with questionable expenses claims.

He also charged £2 for a can of coke. Unbelievable.

What a disgraceful way for a First Minister to behave.

Salmond's position is clearly untenable and he should resign immediately.
25

Gtj,

21/06/2009 10:09:43
"Salmond rejects call to open his diaries"-

Call from who, this outfit and the Knuckle draggers who flip their houses for one month to steal £17,000 of our money then blame it on someone else because they said it was okay.

Get real muppets.

Next time I get caught speeding I'll just tell the officer - it's okay Knuckle boy in the back said so.
26

Gtj,

21/06/2009 10:10:31
Some of you muppets sound like your on drugs
27

Nikostratos,,

21/06/2009 10:13:25
From Alex Salmonds secret diary....age 3 1/2


Chicken Vindaloo Recipe

Chicken Vindaloo is spicy hot dish from Goa, made with coconut vinegar and lots of hot red chili peppers



Traditional Chicken Vindaloo is a spicy hot dish from Goa, made with coconut vinegar and lots of hot red chili peppers

Chili pepper was introduced by Portuguese traders during 16th century. With this came the development of Vindaloo dishes in Goa. I believe Vindaloo to be the oldest dish using chili pepper in India.

What is Vindaloo

I have deviated from tradition

1. Substituted Coconut vinegar with White wine vinegar as original intent

2. Incorporated standard Curry Powder and Garam Masala Powders

3. I have substituted Tamarind with Citric acid. Tamarind Paste gives blackened color. Tamarind Pulp is time consuming

4. Normally whole skinless chicken is used. I will use skinless boneless chicken breast to reduce time to marinate and cooking
Kitchen Tested By: Amit Aggarwal, Canada


Ingredients

1. Skinless boneless Chicken breast 1" to 1½": 2 Pounds
Marinate

1. Mustard oil: ¼ cup

Mustard oil is used for its pungency. You may substitute it with Canola oil
2. White Wine Vinegar: ¼ cup
3. Tamarind Pulp: 1 Tablespoon

Tamarind paste will give blackish color. Tamarind pulp is more appealing. If no Tamarind pulp, substitute with 1 teaspoon of Citric acid
4. Salt: 1 teaspoon
5. Minced Garlic: ¼ Cup

This not a mistake. You need one whole garlic bulb containing about 10 cloves
6. Finely chopped fresh ginger: 1 Inch

7. Serrano: 2

Remove seeds and white membrane to reduce heat for your taste. Chopped

8. Curry Powder Standard Onset Punjabi: 1½ Tablespoon

Use one to 2 Tablespoons depending on your taste

9. Garam Masala Standard Frying Punjabi: ¾ Tablespoon

Use 2 to 3 teaspoons

10. Hot mustard powder: 1 teaspoon
11. Lal Mirch (Ground Hot Cayenne): 2 teaspoons

12. Degi Mirch (Paprika): 1 teaspoon
Cooking

1. Ghee: ¼ Cup
28

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 10:15:13
Runrig SNP MSP Pete Wishart was another one claiming full food allowance during the Summer recess.

He is another one that needs investigated.

His Tartan Army outburst in the House of Commons was pure comedy gold. He was nearly in tears over Team GB.

One cannot beat of perspective eh?
29

Nikostratos,,

21/06/2009 10:17:06
#24 Marian,

Yeah but Alex Salmond is if the fattest of them all

conclusive evidence he fiddled the most amount of
money for food..........greedy guts Alex
30

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 10:23:34
The Hootsmon continue ad-nauseum to try and make an issue of Alex Salmond’s £40 claim for his London subsistence allowance whilst attempting to suppress Jim Murphy’s record of second home flipping and Douglas Alexander’s £12,000+ “voluntary” repayment of over claimed expenses.

Like many other contributors, I used to purchase the print copy of this “newspaper” but I have long ceased to do so.

Is there anyone from Johnston Press actually listening to their former subscribers?

31

Jimmy Le Pie,

21/06/2009 10:23:42
Niko, Rufus at al.


If this is the best you can do, independence is guaranteed!!!!


Keep up the good work!
32

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 10:27:27
#33 Rufus
“One cannot beat of perspective eh?”

Can you translate that into English?
33

Nikostratos,,

21/06/2009 10:29:04
#37 jimmbo

The snp need Independence so they can steal,cheat,defraud and fiddle the Scottish people with impunity.
34

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 10:29:55
#36 I never used to subscribe to the Scotsman I do now. It is an excellent newspaper. I get it delivered each day.

It is good to see that they listen to their new subscribers.
35

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 10:34:54
38

I am posting on a mobile phone with a small screen. Sometimes it is a bit hard to spot typos.

Well done for pointing it out all the same.
36

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 10:39:48
Salmond is to be commended for not bowing to the feeble attempts at bullying by the Tory/BLP alliance. The petulant demands by Goldie and Gray are nothing more than ineffectual arrogance. Salmond will account to the duly appointed authority, not these puffed-up poseurs.

37

Linda,

Edinburgh 21/06/2009 10:43:30
New Labour in action one law for the rich… the little fish like Devine are got rid off but Darling , Hoon & Co are not even put before the Star Chamber. Read Iain MacWhirter in to-day's Sunday Herald
The party leaders clearly believed that by forcing a few backbenchers into early retirement, they had given sufficient blood sacrifice to public opinion. But this was almost as disreputable as the belated cover-up. The Labour "star chamber" has turned into a kangaroo court which has been bullying the weakest Labour backbenchers into giving up their careers. Why is it only small fry like Jim Devine, Ian Gibson and Margaret Moran have been forced to appear before the disciplinary panel while the bigger fish, like the former front benchers Hazel Blears, Geoff Hoon, James Purnell, Tony McNulty and the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, avoid the inquisition? This is not just bad PR but an offence against natural justice.

And others are getting off Scot free. Last week, Darling let the City off the hook, announcing that there would be no new regulation of the big banks to prevent another credit crisis. There can be no doubt that a major cause of this failure to take action against irresponsible lending, the bonus culture, derivative trading, and the rest has been the moral implosion of the political class. In short: how can they take action against people like Sir Fred Goodwin when they have been caught with their own fingers in the till?
38

Jimmy Le Pie,

21/06/2009 10:43:38
#42 Electric

Good post.

All Alex Salmond needs to do is continue his excellent work for the people of Scotland and treat the clowns with the contempt they deserve.

39

brownlie,

21/06/2009 10:54:37
39 nikos

How do you feel about the Tory Party you hate bolstering the Labour party you love at the Scottish Parliament and on the Calman Omission? How do you feel about Annabelle Goldie being the main opposition spokesperson for the Labour/Tory collaboration?
40

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 10:55:28
44
Jimmy Le Pie

"All Alex Salmond needs to do is continue his excellent work for the people of Scotland and treat the clowns with the contempt they deserve."

Agreed. Frankly, even if he has made an inappropriate claim I really don't care. Just as I really don't care about the petty expenses fiddles of other MPs. Salmond's food claim seems perfectly legitimate. But even is it isn't, there is no denying that it is dropping off the lower end of the scale of such "fiddles".

The easy option would have been to simply apologise and hand the money back as so many did - quite wrongly - in the case of claims for Remembrance Day wreaths. But to do so would have been just as wrong and would have set a dangerous precedent that would only encourage further attempts at bullying.

Alex Salmond continues to impress with his performance as First Minister and as a political operator par excellence. I look forward to him and his team sweeping the boards at the coming elections.
41

brownlie,

21/06/2009 10:57:38
31 nikos

Is that your attempt to curry favour with AM2, Sm753, Rufus et al?
42

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 10:58:50
40 Rufus


“#36 I never used to subscribe to the Scotsman I do now. It is an excellent newspaper. I get it delivered each day”.

“The Scotsman is a Scottish national newspaper, published in Edinburgh. It has an audited circulation of 53,513.[2] This represents a significant drop from an approximately 100,000 circulation in the 1980s.[3]
The Scotsman was down 8% and below 50,000. Scotland on Sunday was down 10% and below 62,000, with the Sunday Herald beaten only by the Independent titles in the pace of its decline

It rather looks as if you will need to buy around 50,000 print copies of the Hootsmon every day to restore the once high standing this newspaper used to have.

No doubt from your salary of in excess of £140,000 per annum and the VAT you have saved from the purchases of your plasma car, blue ray guns and clothing for your Barbie Doll you will be well able to afford this.

43

brownlie,

21/06/2009 10:59:17
41 Jerry Springer

Morning, Rufus, do you not have a huge plasma screen on your mobile?
44

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 10:59:53
45
brownlie

"How do you feel about Annabelle Goldie being the main opposition spokesperson for the Labour/Tory collaboration?"

Be fair! Who would choose Gray if they had Goldie on their team?

And should we not be grateful to the Tory/BLP alliance for this arrangement? Surely anything that helps to keep Gray on his seat with his droning mouth shut is to be welcomed.

45

Linda,

Edinburgh 21/06/2009 11:07:25
The biggest waste of money is the Scotland Office. It's responsibilities are virtually NIL since devolution yet figures buried in the Scotland Office’s Annual Report 2009 reveal that the total administration costs of the department have rocketed from £3.7m in 1999 to £7.2m a year in 2009.
This is public money paying for Jim Murphy's onslaught on the democratically elected Scottish government.
46

Queen D,

21/06/2009 11:08:27
I thought that this travesty would be the work of Mr Maddox , but no!

The political editor has put his name to this drivel.

Well Mr Barnes, if |I were you I would be more than a little ashamed.

Were you too busy to do any REAL journalism?
Too busy to bother investigating Mr Martins "illness"?
Glenrothes vanishing acts?
An article on the most expensive and stupidest Scottish MP?
Lisbon Treaty?
Any of these??
47

brownlie,

21/06/2009 11:10:16
51 Electric Hermit

I'm just surprised in view of the colloboration between Tories and Labour at Holyrood and on the Commission that Nikos does not show his gratitude by taking "This blog hates Tories" off his blog and substituting it with "This blog needs Tories".

As for Gray the longer he and Brown stays the better.
48

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 11:14:24
54
brownlie

I am not familiar with the blog to which you refer. And given the cavalier use of the word "hate", I think I'll keep it that way.

49

Nikostratos,,

21/06/2009 11:17:18
Brownlie

talking about collaboration

http://hitlernews.cloudworth.com/local/0589.html

The former SNP leader Arthur Donaldson plotted to set up a puppet Nazi government in Scotland, according to a recently released wartime spy report. An MI5 file on Mr Donaldson, who led the SNP from 1961 to 1969, claims that he conspired to set up a Vichy-style regime with himself as a "Scottish Quisling" in the wake of Hitler's widely-anticipated invasion.
50

wee weegie,

21/06/2009 11:19:50
according to this paper, you would think that Salmond was the only person claiming the 'food allowance'. there are plenty Labour MP's in a worse state. How this paper can regurgitate the same nonsense week after week is beyond me. when all around evryone knew about Devine and his treatment of staff, not a word was written ( and he was supposed to be a Trade Unionist). The staff are still pursuing him.
51

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 11:28:53
56
Nikostratos

Just when you thought the Tory/BLP alliance must surely have reached to bottom of the barrel in their pathetic efforts to smear the SNP, some turdwit drags up some ancient gossip.

52

brownlie,

21/06/2009 11:29:14
56 Nikos

Well, if MI5 said that it must be true. Back in 2003, much more recently than Donaldson't time, British intelligence reported that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction which could threaten the UK at 45 minutes notice. The residue from that "intelligence" is alive and malignant today in Iraq. I am not aware that hundred of thousands of innocent individuals were killed and many more maimed as a result of anything Donaldson did.
53

alanh,

ek 21/06/2009 11:48:04
Is it beyond the journalistic skill of ALL of the "journalists" from this propaganda sheet to do a little bit of research themselves to see what percentage of each month our FM was in away from his constituency home on MP business?

or does it simply serve them better to just repeat the smears and lies from the unionist alliance cos they wouldn't like the truth?
54

alanh,

ek 21/06/2009 11:51:53
#3 rufus.
you said "Salmond claimed the full amount for EVERY month"
but this article says he claimed £1,391.50 for the year 2007/2008.
Does that not equate to just over £100 per month and not the £400 you are claiming he claimed
55

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 12:04:25
60 alanh


Fat N'Eck Salmond was in Scotland throughout April 2007 campaigning for the Holyrood election.

Not only was he claiming an MP's salary while he spent his time, not as an MP, but as a full time SNP campaigner, he also had the chutzpah to claim the Westminster food allowance.

These are not smears. These are not lies. These are facts.

His arrogance will be his downfall.




56

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 12:21:38
59 brownlie

'I am not aware that hundred of thousands of innocent individuals were killed and many more maimed as a result of anything Donaldson did.'


Thanks to those who fought and defeated Hitler we never found out what he would have done.

Not all nationalists did fight against Hitler though, did they?

A significant proportion of them refused to fight in what they regarded as England's war.
57

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 12:25:48
63
Stan Butler

"A significant proportion of them refused to fight in what they regarded as England's war."

There were conscientious objectors from all walks of life. What is your point?

58

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 12:32:56
62
Stan Butler

"His arrogance will be his downfall."

In your febrile dreams. As a party leader, a parliamentarian and a political operator Salmond stands head and shoulders above anything the Tory/BLP alliance has to offer.
59

alanh,

ek 21/06/2009 12:33:47
so did you follow him around as his personal wee stalker stan and know for a fact that he did NO MP work during this time, not even a wee phone call or letter?

has anyone said what claims were made for may of that year cos that is the month that covers april expenses?

I might have got a little excited by the REPEATED stories on this if they had shown a little fairness and compared it with the rest of the MPs from Scotland. To just try and throw mud at one MP, while ignoring the majority of others who did the same( or even more if you actually look at figures) just looks like partisan silliness imo.
Altho it does give you unionist drones a home to stay in tho to hide from the real troubles like the dishonorable members that have flipped homes, claimed for mortgages that they never had, work that was never done etc
60

Jimmy Le Pie,

21/06/2009 12:49:25
#68 Baggy,

It's Stan I laugh at.

True 'socialist' supporting a party that's as right wing as any of Maggie Thatcher's governments.
Desperately grasping at any straw he can, to no avail.

Makes you think he's a vested interest in keeping the rotten cabal going??
61

brownlie,

21/06/2009 12:53:06
63 Stan

Are you somehow inferring that those who believe in independence for Scotland were more inclinded to refuse to fight against Nazi Germany? You may be aware that the Western Isles who lost more percent of population than anywhere in the British Isles has the highest proportion of Nationalist supporters.
62

Budgie,

INCHINNAN 21/06/2009 12:53:13
If Mr Salmond has nothing to fear, I should imagine he would be rushing to open his diary/s - which would surely be to his advantage. If he continues to refuse, it will not be unreasonable to assume that he is as corrupt as many Westminster and some MSP politicians undoubtedly are.
63

Jimmy Le Pie,

21/06/2009 12:59:12
#72 Budgie,

Alex Salmond is quite right to ignore the unionist halfwits who buzz around him with the same purpose as a midge. He's not answerable to them in any way. He's said he's happy for the independent audit. Is Comrade Murphy?? Comrade Devine?? Comrade Darling??

His standing amongst the electorate is rising unlike unionists such as Comrade 7% and the idiot libdum Tavish
64

Budgie,

INCHINNAN 21/06/2009 13:02:35
#71 brownlie.
Did the Western Isles have the same proportion of Nationalist supporters prior to WW2? If it did't, then you really cannot challenge Stan's assertion.
65

Budgie,

INCHINNAN 21/06/2009 13:05:32
#74. Jimmy le Pie.
If he is not answerable to those you refer to, could he be answerable to us?
66

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 13:09:19
72
Budgie

"If Mr Salmond has nothing to fear, I should imagine he would be rushing to open his diary/s - which would surely be to his advantage."

This has already been explained.

The easy option would have been to simply apologise and hand the money back as so many did - quite wrongly - in the case of claims for Remembrance Day wreaths. But to do so would have been just as wrong and would have set a dangerous precedent that would only encourage further attempts at bullying.

"If he continues to refuse, it will not be unreasonable to assume that he is as corrupt as many Westminster and some MSP politicians undoubtedly are."

You will, of course, leap to whatever conclusion suits your prejudices. I prefer to deal with facts rather than mere belief.

67

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 13:11:03
75
Baggy Troosers

"If you banged Rufus's, Nickers's and fffatneck Stan's heads together you would have just have enough Braincells to fill the head of a Sparrow."

My sympathies are with the sparrow.

68

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 13:14:49
79
Budgie

"If he is not answerable to those you refer to, could he be answerable to us?"

Salmond has voluntarily referred the matter to an independent panel being set up to audit all MP's expenses. What is it about this that you find so difficult to grasp?

69

Budgie,

INCHINNAN 21/06/2009 13:33:11
#83.
I am not having difficulty in grasping anything, and trust that the "independent" panel will be just that. He may then be answerable to us.
70

Jimmy Le Pie,

21/06/2009 13:34:33
#83 Electric,

This has been going on since Alex Salmond became Prime Minister of Scotland.

They tried desperately to smear him with the Trump development - failed miserably.

They tried with Kenny MacAskill - failed miserably.

It was OK for Donald Dewar & Henry McLeish to sit in both Westminster and Holyrood but not Alex Salmond??

Keep up the excellent work Alex & Co.
71

Budgie,

INCHINNAN 21/06/2009 13:35:09
#81.
Facts are chiels that winna ding.
72

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 13:37:49
84
Budgie

"I am not having difficulty in grasping anything..."

Then why are you feigning incomprehension?

"He may then be answerable to us."

Alex Salmond is an elected representative. As such he is ultimately answerable to the people who elected him. I would have thought that too was obvious.

73

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 13:40:23
86
Budgie

"Facts are chiels that winna ding."

Correct. Note the contrast with mere belief.

74

mr broon,

Edinburgh 21/06/2009 13:51:13
It is fairly apparent to all that hungry Eck claimed the food allowance and ate all the curries.

However, in complete contrast to the contents of the business diary of the leader of the Scots Tory Party, which probably records important Tory Party events like coffee mornings, tombollas and whist drives, the Nationalist First Minister's diary makes reference to numerous daily events and engagements under one heading: GOVERNING SCOTLAND.

Something the minority Scots Tories have been unable to do for 12 long years!
75

brownlie,

21/06/2009 13:53:54
77 budgie

Stan's assertion was that because some SNP character had a bizarre idea during the war that somehow this meant that those with nationalist tendencies were less likely to fight against Nazi Germany. Are you backing this assertion which was made with no fact to substantiate it.

My original post cast doubts upon the validy of MI5's intelligence which, as the events of 2003 clearly illustrate, are not infallible.
76

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 14:27:23
Claims for food are backdated. The claims for the earlier part of the year would have been submitted in the months that followed. Salmond's claims for food in May/June/July totalled £150. Any fool could establish these facts as they are on-line.

Salmond has said from the outset that he will co-operate with the independent audit and accept the outcome of said audit. That is the correct decision in my view, why on earth should he be required to open his diaries for a bunch of sensation seekers who don't care how they undermine politics in general for the sake of undermining him.

This is pathetic.

77

John S,

21/06/2009 14:34:35
To The Scottish Tory Party stop making a fool of yourselves.

In theory any MP could have consumed that up to £400 pounds per month food allowance in one day, over several days or week(s) because it was not a daily allowance nor were any receipts daily or otherwise required to be kept or provided.

So what is the point of looking at AS diaries when there is no daily food receipt required or need to be submitted, just the monthly claim.

It wasn't it necessary for an MP to have to be attending Parliament or in London to claim this allowance.

This allowance was to purchase food when the the MP was performing out their parliamentary duties away from their main residence (address) so they could also have used this food allowance while attending Parliament, during recess or at anytime when away from their main residence which could mean when they did work in their constituency,meeting local party supporters, attending local and national meetings anywhere in the UK or probably overseas while suppose to be performing out their parliamentary duties away from their main residence (address) and who can prove otherwise or what amount of the food allowance they spent on any particular day ?
78

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 14:39:39
91 Observer,

'Claims for food are backdated'


Stop telling lies.

It doesn't matter how often you repeat the lie, it's still a lie.

The claim form for April is dated 20th May. It relates to expenditure supposedly incurred in April.

Fat N'Eck was in Scotland throughout April. He spent his time campaigning for the SNP in the Holyrood election.

He continued to draw his MP's salary, though he spent his time engaged in non MP work. He even drew the Westminster food allowance.

He's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. If he had any sense he would admit he made a mistake, apologise and repay the money.

But he's too arrogant to do so.

Don't forget that most political downfalls are caused not by what politicians have done but by how they have reacted when they were found out.

79

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 14:42:44
90 brownlie


It's a matter of historical fact that a proportion of nationalists refused to fight against Hitler because they regarded the war as England's problem.

Are you denying that this is the case?


80

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 14:54:56
94
Stan Butler

Conscientious objectors came from all walks of life and had diverse reasons for refusing to engage in armed combat.

Do you have a point?

81

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 14:57:29
93
Stan Butler

"...most political downfalls are caused not by what politicians have done but by how they have reacted..."

Alex Salmond will be fine, then, as he has reacted with total propriety to the petty smear attempts of the Tory/BLP alliance.

82

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 15:02:00
95 Electric Hermit

Do you accept that a significant proportion of nationalists refused to fight Hitler because they regarded the war as England's problem?

I dare say conscientious objectors had a variety of motivations, from the admirable though misguided to the most repulsive. The nationalist variety is about the most repulsive.


83

John S,

21/06/2009 15:02:25
#93 AS was in Scotland throughout April 2007 nice observation, now
Parliament Easter recess 2007 was from 29 Mar 2007 to 16 Apr 2007 work it out for yourself.
84

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 15:04:03
93 Stan you are usually quite smart but that seems to have deserted you. Why do you think Salmond is so quietly confident ? He appears to have no issue with placing both his own claims and that of his colleagues forward for independent audit. Unlike all those other MP's who have been rushing forward to admit their guilt and paying back copious quantities of falsely claimed money.

The facts are that the amounts claimed for food in May/June/July were £150. That appears to me to tally with what Salmond has said.

However I am not privy to all the facts so I am guessing which I freely admit. Not lying.

85

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 15:06:40
97 Your intelligence appears to have deserted you again. As a diversionary activity that is quite a dangerous one I would have thought for you, given your alliegances.

BTW many of us have grandparents and great aunts and uncles that lived and fought the war so you are hardly likely to endear yourself with these comments.
86

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 15:08:07
97
Stan Butler

"Do you accept that a significant proportion of nationalists refused to fight Hitler because they regarded the war as England's problem?"

Why would I "accept" such a thing without evidence.

"The nationalist variety is about the most repulsive."

Who the hell are you to pronounce judgement on anyone's motives? Irrogant prack!

87

Brianwci,

21/06/2009 15:20:12
Forget Westminster's mess for a sec and take a closer look at Oslo's new Opera House. Worth Googling it. And don't worry about money going to opera and not the poor, Norway has Oil and Gas, it doesn't 'do' poor.

This is Norway's biggest cultural project in 700 years. Now where do you suppose tiny Norway got the money to build something that would grace the shores of Dubai, New York, London or Tokyo?

Think of all the modern buildings built in Scotland since Oil, including Holyrood. None of them compare, but then we don't have Oil and Gas revenues.....London does.

And Scotland's British Nationalists are determined that it stays that way while the Scottish Nationalists are determined that the money should stay in Scotland.

Which group do you support?
88

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 15:41:02
101 Electric Hermit


Any Scot who refused to fight Hitler on the grounds that it was England's war was beneath contempt.

I don't see why anyone would want to disagree with that statement.

That was certainly the contemporary opinion, not last among those nationalists who did fight.

And any SNP supporter who doesn't know about how some nationalists behaved during the war should wise up a bit.
89

brownlie,

21/06/2009 15:44:43
97 Stan

What do you mean by a significant portion? Was the number of nationalists who refused to fight higher than the number of those who were not nationalists who were conscientous objectors? What is the actual point that you and Niko are trying to make?

If you choose to bring previous history into the matter I could point out to a huge number of repugnant measures that successive "unionist" government have taken which are a great deal more shameful than a few nationalists not wishing to fight in a war. Actually, I would not need to go very far back, would I?
90

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 15:55:21
103
Stan Butler

"Any Scot who refused to fight Hitler on the grounds that it was England's war was beneath contempt."

You have yet to show that any conscientious objector gave this as a reason.

And you have yet to explain by what authority you profess to be the arbiter of others' motives and morals.

91

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 15:57:40
104 Stan aka Baffled as many of us knew him on the Herald, Brownlie, appears to think that we Scots have no right to be nationalists, as we have not been oppressed enough. He will, I have no doubt,have no problem defending the Republic of Ireland's neutral stance in WW2 as they had the right, apparently, to opt out. But according to his strange mindset, apparently Scottish nationalists didn't.

Never mind that we are talking about a handful of people, and never mind that the independence movement has changed irrevocably since those days.

He's a bizarre character that is actually quite shy in stating his own view if you notice. But they are hardline republican - as long as you're Irish.
92

Fitba Krazy,

21/06/2009 16:05:21
It gets more ridiculous/desperate by the day.

They blank out most of the "expenses" claims, want to do a secret Iraq inquiry but just must see Alex Salmond's diary.

To check if he had anything to eat or not on a particular day because they are worried he is not looking after himself properly, I presume.



93

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 16:10:16
103
Stan Butler

"That was certainly the contemporary opinion, not last among those nationalists who did fight."

A wild assertion which is contradicted by the facts. Arthur Donaldson, the target of the MI5 smear referred to earlier was elected to parliament by the the good people of Motherwell and Wishaw in April 1945. Hardly the action of people who held him in the contempt that you claim.

The fact is that people like Donaldson and Douglas Young were widely regarded as heroes for their efforts to challenge the London establishment.

It took strong principles and a very special kind of bravery to refuse conscription in those times. Something that decent people of good sense recognised then and now.

94

brownlie,

21/06/2009 16:14:15
106 Observer

I am baffled as to why individuals who nit-pick, generalise and resort to tactics such as consistently referring to the First Minister as being over-weight etc etc feel that they are making a significant contribution to the cause they support.
95

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 16:20:36
109 Yes so am I. But then I think you are probably a fairly straightforward person who just straight forwardly posts his views on the issues of the day, as do I. For some people it seems to be more complicated. Not our problem.
96

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 16:21:45
109
brownlie

"I am baffled..."

No need to be. The fact that you are at least smart enough to recognise these "tactics" for what they are suggests that you are quite capable of figuring out what kind of intellect resorts to such tactics.

Was that subtle enough?

97

brownlie,

21/06/2009 16:30:31
111 Electric Hermit

Yes!
98

brownlie,

21/06/2009 16:35:24
One thing that surprises about this article is that Annabelle Goldie spends her Saturday night worrying about Salmond's expenses.
99

Jerry Springer,

21/06/2009 16:45:03
THE battle for independence has moved into the fruit and veg aisles. A Nationalist politician has written to supermarkets demanding that they translate the English names of fresh produce into their Scots equivalents, such as "tatties", "neeps" and "brambles".
Bill Wilson, the MSP for the West of Scotland, says stores should label goods in their stores according to the most commonly used Scots phrases north of the border.
===================================================

Does Salmond have any control over the idiots in his party?

Bill Wilson is 'DEMANDING' supermarkets change all their labelling. Tescos and Sainsburys will be shaking in their shoes.

Forgetting expenses for a moment, I wonder how much taxpayers money gets wasted on these petty, childish political stunts.
100

Queen D,

21/06/2009 16:49:09
Tea total: Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy was the cabinet's highest petty cash claimant while MP Shahid Malik claimed the maximum allowance in 2008-07



Cabinet
Claim

Brown:
£0.00

Harman
£0.00

Darling
£0.00

D Miliband
£0.00

Straw
£750.00

Johnson
£0.00

Benn
£0.00

Alexander
£0.00

Denham
£100.00

E. Miliband
£600.00

Burnham
£0.00

Woodward
£0.00

Jowell
£0.00

J. Murphy
£2,294.15

Cooper
£0.00

Byrne
£750.00

Hain
£0.00

Ainsworth
£300.00

Bradshaw
£0.00


S'allot of petty cash eh????

P.S my apologies ,the name in my first post Mr Barnes , should have been MARSHALL and Not Martin
101

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 17:09:48
108 Electric Hermit

I think you may be referring to Dr Robert MacIntyre who was elected 1945.

102

hoblar,

21/06/2009 17:24:43
My father joined the British Army as did two of his brothers and they all fought in Aden.

In fact my dad was injured and saw some of his friends killed in an ambush during the Aden conflict, and they were nationalists when they voted at home, in fact one of my uncles was very politically active....so it is very sad indeed to hear a brit nationalist type, who makes idiotic claims in general, denigrating Scottish people like my father who passed away last year.

103

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 17:27:13
113
brownlie

"One thing that surprises about this article is that Annabelle Goldie spends her Saturday night worrying about Salmond's expenses."

I'm afraid we must, however reluctantly, regard Annabel Goldie as a "lost soul". Her reputation is destroyed and all respect forfeit. Very sad.

104

brownlie,

21/06/2009 17:28:38
114 Jerry Springer

Rufus, I read your last sentence first and thought you were taking a realistic view of the Calman Commission.

As for the rest of your post, if all that is true, then it sounds a bit silly and pointless to me, as well.
105

hoblar,

21/06/2009 17:38:33
Think about all those Scots who suffered and died during the wars, proportionately, their sacrifice was enormous in comparison to some other areas of these isles, and these wars were apolitical as far as sacrifices actually went.

To make such disparaging remarks as the silly troll butler made above is to move political commentary into the realms of nastiness, denigrating EVERY single Scot who contributed in ANY way to the war, because ultimately they all fought to have the right to have a CHOICE in their politics, they fought for this DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE in general, and they didn't need to support the political concept of Britain to do so.

The same right to vote for your favoured political party AND still join the British army remains to this day.



106

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 17:38:44
114
Jerry Springer

"Bill Wilson is 'DEMANDING' supermarkets change all their labelling."

No. The unionist propaganda sheets SAY he is "demanding" this. Not the same thing at all as less brazenly partisan observers will concede.

__________

Wilson said: "I can't see why they shouldn't use Scots words. For example, nobody uses the word 'blackberry' in Scotland; they're always referred to as brambles. The stores are very keen to say that they use Scots goods. Why don't they use Scots words as well?"
__________

Seems perfectly reasonable. I have never called them anything other than brambles. Nor have I heard many other people in Scotland use the English name.

Considering that campaigning for preservation of the Scots language is one of Bill Wilson's areas of special interest, I don't see anybody other than the occasional loony getting worked up about this.

107

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 17:49:00
116
dunedin bully wee

"I think you may be referring to Dr Robert MacIntyre who was elected 1945."

Of course I did. I can't believe I made such a foolish error. Although MacIntyre, Donaldson and Young were all closely involved, it was indeed MacIntyre who had the distinction of becoming the first SNP MP.

I apologise most profoundly for my confusion.

108

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 18:18:51
120 Hoblar just ignore it. He's crossed a line I suppose that's why he's disappeared.
109

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 18:32:43
It is not in doubt that Salmond is a troughing hog, you only have to look at him.
Christian people should be looking at how we can help Salmond out of his compulsion to eat at our expense.
Scorning Salmond and the people that support him will not rectify Salmond's guzzling problem. Salmond's troughing, no doubt, emanates from the fact that most people in Scotland disdain him and his party.

Can't you all sympathise with the man? Scotland is after all, nominally, a Christian country. Although Salmond's father, a Communist, not an SNP supporter, might want to refute that.
110

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 18:39:52
124
Tartan Bond

TROLL ALERT!

111

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 18:40:27
124 Oh how sweet you have come direct from the 1950's when Scotland was a Christian God-fearing land.

Perhaps it escaped your attention that a certain Winston Churchill who was quite big (no pun intended) in the years 1939-45 was somewhat on the hefty side ?

I wouldn't really pay that much attention to a politicians physique if I was you. It may be rather important if you are a super-model, but I don't recommend that Kate Moss runs the country.
112

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 18:41:24
125 yes he is a troll. But such a silly one it's hard to resist:)
113

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 18:50:34
122 Electric Hermit,

Both Arthur Donaldson and Bob MacIntyre were still around in the ‘70’s when many of us first became involved in the Independence movement.

In as much as we had any Nationalist heroes back then, these two, by then elderly guys, represented a link with the origins of our party, and were held in awe by many of us.

We can only guess at the difficulties, both personal and professional that they went through in pursuing Scotland’s emancipation.

To read the smears and attempts to besmirch the memory of these Patriots fills me with sadness and not a little degree of anger.

I only wish that they had lived to see the progress we have now made, built upon the foundations they laid down all those years ago.
114

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 18:54:30
128
dunedin bully wee 1877

"To read the smears and attempts to besmirch the memory of these Patriots fills me with sadness and not a little degree of anger."

I know that feeling.

115

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 19:10:41
Observer # 126

Your hero "Winnie" was before my time sweetheart, but, feel free with the history lessons.

Incidentally that "Electric Hermit" is kind of retentive in a down below, underneath, sort of way, is he not? Has EH not heard of satire?

Having a model for a wife, who is clearly not shy when it come to putting her oar? in, has not hindered Sarkozy too much, has it?
Maybe Kate Moss has got something to contribute?
116

dunedin bully wee 1877,

21/06/2009 19:18:30
130 Tartan Bond


The employment of satire as a literary tool entails a certain degree of literary competence not to mention intelligence.

You appear to fail on both accounts.

117

Soloman,

Stirling 21/06/2009 19:18:31
There seems to be a common theme with these expenses.

Westminster!


Break Free

X Vote SNP X

Independence from Westminster

Ps I hear GB Brown wants to be a teacher, and he believes that Peter Mandelson is the right man to be the new PM. Lordy Lordy!
118

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 19:21:13
dunedin bully wee 1877 # 132

I await your demonstration of that art, seeing as how you this boards self-appointed guru.
Preach on...
119

brownlie,

21/06/2009 19:23:19
I see Paisley Pete has found a new disguise. Hagbard, you'll be pleased to be backed up by such illustrious company. That should annoy the nats, eh?
120

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 19:30:48
130 Ah so it is you.

Gordon Brown may very well be a better Prime Minister if he were married to Kate Moss, but I think it unlikely that Kate would agree.
121

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 19:33:36
Star spangled bannock # 136

Then be ashamed, very ashamed of the post on Friday evening by SNP supporter "Quisling Gogs" who requested:
"Do you want to join Maddox in the gas chambers."
Is Quisling Gogs a BNP supporter or an SNP supporter; he reads like both.

Salmond should open his diaries and repudiate the threats of his supporter Quisling Gogs, to date he has done neither. Why not?
122

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 19:37:08
140 Quisling Gogs is a wind up merchant. He posts to get a reaction. He usually gets one.
123

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 19:38:24
140 Do you think Alex Salmond reads the comments in the Scotsman ?
124

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 19:46:42
Observer # 138

Ahso!
David Carradine would approve, if he could.

I agree that Gordie could probably do with something chemical to help him relax, he is just so, wound up, dontcha think? But, Kate Moss might just know someone who could point Gordie in some direction or another...

But, Davis Cameron MP Tory, Salmond's ideal successor in Westminster has financial issues as yet unreconciled as has his second in charge (2IC) George Osborne who seems to have avoided Capital Gains Tax (CGT) on a profit of nearly £750,000 on a house sale in London.

Why would Salmond want the super rich, super thieves back in control in Westminster.
So, that they will just write off his sleazy meal tickets, or is there a more, personally, profitable game for Salmond in play that we are not privy to in Scotland?
125

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 19:52:52
Observer # 142

Of course Salmond doesn't.
Salmond has the whole SNP lynch mob here to read them, write the replies for him, then, tell him what to say and think later.
Food is Salmond's reward, paid for by UK taxpayers, which, by an uncanny, massive coincidence, precludes most SNP supporters.
126

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 19:54:15
143 David Carradine now what was all that about ? And at 72 ? Still I suppose he went out enjoying himself, a bit like that Tory guy (I know they are your fave subjects) with the orange.

I am speechless when it comes to Cameron and Osborne who are both millionaires making questionable claims. On top of everything else I expet the Tories to have some style when they are being evil barstewards. These two are a disgrace to their party.

I think Salmond probably does want the Tories in power, bercause it will concentrate people's minds on the fact that it wouldn't matter a tinkers cuss if we all voted Labour we will get what the numerically superior English want. Which is kind of the point.


127

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 19:56:59
144 Between you and me, and of course anyone else who is reading, the SNP are rather horrified by some of the posters on here. The ones who post that we are oppressed and it is all the fault of the English. As that is not the kind of feeling that the SNP represents.
128

,

21/06/2009 20:02:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
129

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:04:42
147 Oh you are very good at it.
130

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:05:19
Observer # 146

If the SNP are horrified by some of the posts by their supporters here, then they should publicly rebuke them. I suspect that Salmond and his inner circle like the invective and the apparent extremism.
They cannot have it both ways though, not if they want to pretend to be a respectable, mainstream party.

I do like the fact that you seem able to see both sides of the equation and are not cowed by the extremists here; keep it up.
131

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:06:03
148 I will pass on if Faux hasn't caught your post.
132

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:09:19
Observer # 141

Reaction?
He's more likely to get a sentence for his Friday evening post.
I suspect the Scotsman is allowing him to continue posting so that they can get even more evidence against him; just my opinion though.
133

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:09:53
150 You miss my point. Posting on here is independent of politcal parties. With the exception of Miss H I don't think there is any poster on here that claims or is a representative of the SNP. And I think Miss H posts in her own time but has been honest in declaring an interest.

But I do know that some of the more extremist posts on here are looked at with horror by mainstream nationalists. Although those such as AM2 would be put out of a job if they stopped.
134

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:11:39
153 Well let's hope the beak has a rather more developed sense of humour than you do.
135

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:16:55
Star spangled bannock # 152

"I believe you may have *starred* in one of the movies I referred to in my previous post."
Go ahead and prove it. You are posting links to porn sites because that it what you do. You are a pornographer, scum who wants to profit from abuse of women and minors, even Alec Salmond does not sink THAT low.
Salmond will be delighted that YOU have leapt to the aid of his reputation.
Now, I pity Salmond!
136

hoblar,

21/06/2009 20:18:40
Well, a troll will say anything to get a response, and the best sign of a troll is somebody who posts dozens of times in one article where most people will make a few comments and they will have some form of reference to the article or a point.

The troll stan butler, for instance, insists that being Scottish and having the absolutely sound and democratic right to vote SNP means that you were a traitor in the past, say during the second world war.

I believe that this sort of commentary represents a new low, it is simple a sad pitiful and nasty way to post comments and disrupt others simply because you can't accept that the union and Labour in particular are going through an unprecedented bad patch.

My dad, who was Independently minded and voted SNP, joined up and was at Aden to his ultimate detriment, and he was a nationalist (he passed away last year) and when I read this bile by the troll, looking to cover up, as usual, the rubbishness of the union, it made me quite sick.

These people should have their accounts stopped.

The union will be dead and gone soon enough, and not one Scot will accept the kind of vacuous rant that butler and the few other deidheids pepper every article with.

Of course they avoid the article on how useless the Scottish office is to Scotland, and how it acts without a mandate, because that is the truth, and the truth scres the dwindling few with a unionist bent.
137

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:21:37
Observer # 155

You will have to remind me what is funny about, "Do you want to join Maddox in the gas chambers." Quisling Gogs.

That has to be the funniest line of the year so far.

Hey, we are talking greedy Salmond and goghead wants to gas people. Who has the problem?
138

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:29:23
160 You are a selective literalist aren't you. When it comes to outrageous comments unionists post them comparing us to nazis all the time. As a person with Jewish ancestry and who's grandfathers and great uncles not only fought the Nazis but two went to Spain as well I find that objectionable. I found Quisling's post a bit objectionable too but then I knew that he was just on the prowl.

139

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:30:38
Star spangled bannock # 162

The dewlap under Salmond chins speak to his greed for food, at least.
140

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:35:10
164 And that is trhe best argument for the union I have ever heard. Independence makes you fat. Well gee I am converted.
141

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:37:21
Observer # 163

So, "Quisling Gogs" is a Unionist now?
An onanist yes, Unionist no!
I am glad that you found his post a "bit" objectionable too, that absolves you, Salmond and the whole Scottish Nationalist diaspora from detailing him for what he is: a BNP/SNP inspired fascist.
What is wrong with the truth where lowlife individuals like that are concerned?
142

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 20:42:34
163
Observer

"You are a selective literalist aren't you"

I told you what it is.

143

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:43:56
Observer # 165

The quest for independence has made Salmond porky?
Or, have the extra pay packets and expenses done that?

I want to see Salmond get down to a sensible 20 stones. Stephen Fry (Actor - Unionist) has lost a lot of weight, 6 stones in 6 months. Salmond could lose 10 pounds of ugly fat overnight, if they cut half of his tongue out!
144

Tartan Bond,

21/06/2009 20:49:54
Electric Hermit # 167

Your didactic approach only works if you are not a complete headoftheknob.
But, you are; naff off!
Naff is a euphemism for a popular four letter word.
145

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:52:12
166 You really are being very silly. It's a common tactic, in fact in many ways it's the only tactic, of the die-hard unionist, those protectors of the imperialist UK state, to call us fascists. We are not the ones who support fighting imperialistic wars, holding imperialistic WMD on our soil, or having fascistic ID cards and supporting fascistic racist policies in how we police the state. Your mob do that.
146

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 20:56:21
168 I would like to see Eck cut the weight down too. He isn't healthy looking, but then so are more than half of the country. He's a bit of a hefty middle aged bloke. Scotland's full of 'em. I'm thin that makes me a bit of a weirdo in this country, that's something that needs to be sorted.
147

Faux Cul,

21/06/2009 21:07:01
148
Star spangled bannock,
21/06/2009 20:03:05

Thanks

Works a treat, even the Adult Channels.

I must grow up.
148

brownlie,

21/06/2009 21:10:35
170 Observer

I' m surprised you haven't twigged who that is - there will be a rant sometime soon.
149

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 21:18:09
173 Remember I am relatively new here Brownlie, I only shifted over since the Herald died. So far I have spotted him in about 4-ish guises, I take there are more but I don't know about them.
150

Observer,,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 21:19:39
172 Evening Faux how you. Glad you got it.
151

JC1,

Glasgow 21/06/2009 21:57:46
It's both equally pathetic- the miserable hypocritical salmond pretending ot be whiter than white and his half dozen trolls posting on this.
PS I see he's in trouble again over claims for a rather expensive letter machine....
152

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 22:24:18


Do the gnats now accept that a proportion of nationalists refused to fight Hitler because they regarded the war as England's problem?


Or are you still in denial?

153

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 22:25:04
178
JC1

"I see he's in trouble again over claims for a rather expensive letter machine...."

I would say this is old news - but it isn't news at all. The letter folding machine is just a piece of office equipment. So there is no reason to go wetting your pants. You can be damned sure Salmond won't be.

154

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 22:27:28
179
Stan Butler

Conscientious objectors came from all walks of life and had diverse reasons for refusing to engage in armed combat.

Do you have a point?

155

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 22:33:00
#181 Electric Hermit


The point is that the avowed Scot gnats who refused to fight Hitler and gave as their reason than the war was England's problem are to be condemned, not least by nationalists.
156

hoblar,

21/06/2009 22:37:15
I believe wee Douglas Alexander has a good load of questions about how he acquired stationary and associated equipment.

If Salmond is alleged to be shaking in his shoes about his expences being audited, then Labour and Tories will be veritable chivers jellies with triple protection pampers at best

The guy butler loves insulting ALL of those who died for the right to live in a democracy when he insults the Scottish people and the armed forces by trying to negate the sacrifices people who suffered and died in the British Army if they are politically Independently minded.
157

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 22:38:58
182
Stan Butler

"The point is that the avowed Scot gnats..."

It is difficult enough to take you seriously. Get back to me when you learn to spell.

158

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 22:44:23
184 Electric Hermit

Do you think it was right for Scots to refuse to fight Hitler because the war was England's problem?


159

brownlie,

21/06/2009 22:54:18
182 Stan butler

Who should be condemned more - a handful of individuals, that you claim to be nationalists and whose personal circumstances you know nothing about, refusing to go to war or a Prime Minister and Government deliberately disceiving parliament and the electorate in order to pursue actions which led to hundred of thousands of individuals, including British soldiers, being killed.
160

brownlie,

21/06/2009 22:56:11
185 Stan Butler

Your assertion that the war was England's problem is an insult to those of other nationalities who fought and died in that war.
161

,

21/06/2009 23:04:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
162

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 23:07:36
185
Stan Butler

You have yet to show that this happened. You surely don't expect anyone to take your word for it.

163

brownlie,

21/06/2009 23:19:00
188 Stan Butler

I am bright enough to be able to read. Your statement at 185 reads " Do you think it was right for Scots to refuse to fight Hitler because it was England's problem". You did not write "because they thought it was England's problem". Is the difference difficult for you to understand? I am also bright enough to know that gnats are insects and nothing to do with politics. How many nationalists were involved? Do you know for a fact that they did this because of their beliefs or might they have had other reasons. Finally, what relevance has it to today's Scottish National Party?
164

Barney Thomson,

Reading 21/06/2009 23:23:28
Stan - what's your opinion of the socialists who registered as conscientious objectors as they did not want to fight against the USSR? Or of the right wing establishment figures who gave implicit support to the Nazi?
165

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 23:23:31
There is an interesting piece about conscientious objectors in Glasgow during WW2 on the Glasgow Caledonian University website. Interesting not least because, in a very detailed account, there is not a single mention of the SNP.

http://tiny.pl/3k5r

166

hoblar,

21/06/2009 23:23:45

"The trade union and socialist movements had declared before the war their determined opposition to a war which they said could only mean workers killing each other in the millions in the interests of their bosses. But once the war was declared, the VAST MAJORITY of the socialist and trade union bodies decided to back the government of their country and support the war.

In Scotland, and particularly in GLASGOW, an active campaign against the war was carried out, in particular among shipyard workers. The leaders of this movement included John Maclean and Willie Gallacher, and they both served prison sentences for their activity. Gallacher claims that for years, Lloyd George did not dare visit Glasgow because of the strength of the anti-war movement.

Other opposition came from conscientious objectors - some socialist, some religious - who refused to fight in the war. In Britain 16,000 people asked for conscientious objector status, and many suffered years of prison, including solitary confinement and bread and water diets, to oppose the war."


167

brownlie,

21/06/2009 23:32:22
196 Berero

Ignorance, intolerance and prejudices often feed off one another in a vicious circle.
168

hoblar,

21/06/2009 23:33:17
World War 1:

"The No-Conscription Fellowship was an organisation made up by members of the Socialist Independent Labour Party and the Quakers.

The men who signed the above leaflet were Clifford Allen, Edward Grubb, A Fenner Brockway, W J Chamberlain, W H Ayles, Morgan Jones, A Barratt Brown, John Fletcher, C H Norman and Rev. Leyton Richards. All charged under the Defence of the Realm Act. They were all fined; those who decided not to pay the fine were sent to prison."
169

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 23:40:54
195
hoblar

Interesting. But it should be pointed out that the article you refer to relates to WW1. - http://tiny.pl/3k5d)

Opposition to WW2 was of a rather different nature. As the piece from Glasgow Caledonian University explains. - http://tiny.pl/3k5r

It is notable, however, that in neither case is there any mention of SNP conscientious objectors or the reasons for objecting alleged by the idiot.

170

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 23:42:04
193 Barney Thomson

They were wrong.

So far as the communists (not socialists, those who refused to fight were CPGB members) are concerned I don't think they ever denied they were wrong.
171

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 23:42:47
197
Berero, looking to the night sky for inspiration

"Of course its all bull from that piece of scum. This paper has a duty to call in forums when c r a p like him posts controversial stuff."

I would not be in favour of curtailing the idiot's freedom to make a complete @rse of himself.

172

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 23:45:30
#195 hoblar

Why are you posting articles about the First world war?
173

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 23:49:36
190 Berero

'I hate to say this i don't care if i get banned but i really would love to meet with you and have a square go with you. You are the bloody pits. Anytime, any place god i would knock the c r a p out of you, swear to hell i would.'


Ooh er.

Are you all big and hard?


174

Electric Hermit,

21/06/2009 23:55:43
201
Stan Butler

"So far as the communists (not socialists, those who refused to fight were CPGB members)...)"

Complete BS! Apart from a few months in late 1939/early 1941 when there was a split on the issue, the Communist Party of Great Britain supported the war wholeheartedly and throughout.

Opposition to the war was led by the Independent Labour Party.

175

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 23:57:05
209 Berero

So what are you then

Big and soft

Wee and hard or

Wee and soft?


Either way your obviously an ignorant moron.

176

hoblar,

21/06/2009 23:59:23
A very interesting account within that Glasgow University link EH.

Thanks.

Particularly fascinating is this statistic on the percentage of conscientious objectors within Scotland in World War II:

"SW Scotland, 41% refusal.

SE Scotland, 34% refusal.

N Scotland, 50% refusal.

NE Scotland, 22% refusal."

If the clownish claim by mr butler was considered, does this mean that support for Independence was this high during the war or is he just talking pure mince insulting ALL those Scots who have fought in the past and still fight in the British Army today?

177

Stan Butler,

21/06/2009 23:59:25
210 Berero

Lovely story. Very touching. Can't quite see the relevance though.
178

hoblar,

22/06/2009 00:01:25
Time to leave the troll alone?
179

Fletty73,

Stirling 22/06/2009 00:02:24
Where does on go on this website to find the shocking story of Jim Murphys double flipping scandal?
180

brownlie,

22/06/2009 00:07:00
204 Stan Butler

You're asking hoblar why he is posting about the 1st World War when you've been posting all day about the Second World War. Is one more relevant than the other? The last time I saw statements that silly were from Grahamski. Is that another of your monikers? Don't bother answering that - I'm not really interested.

181

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:07:53
214
Berero, looking to the night sky for inspiration

I implore you not to rise to this fool's baiting. It may be a cliché, but he genuinely isn't worth it.

Truth is the best weapon against these puerile amateur propagandists. Truth is the enemy of ignorance.

182

brownlie,

22/06/2009 00:08:16
219 Fletty

Did you say Murphy's flip-flop sandal?
183

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 00:09:15

And yet the fact remains that a proportion of gnats refused to fight Hitler because they regarded the war as England's problem.

At least most of the current gnats have the decency to be embarrassed about it (those not still in denial that is).





184

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:11:19
215
hoblar

I have to point out that those figures are for the percentages refused CO status. It is notable, however, that a massively bigger proportion of CO applications were refused in Scotland than anywhere else.

185

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 00:12:00
#218 Berero

This isn't an internet dating site you know.

186

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:14:05
225
Stan Butler

"And yet the fact remains that a proportion of gnats..."

A gnat is a flying insect.

And your intellectual superior.

187

brownlie,

22/06/2009 00:17:19
225 Stan Butler

Your assertion has been comprehensively shown to be a load of nonsense. Whilst I don't usually make reference to poster's lack of intelligence on this forum in your case I'm quite happy to make an exception.
188

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 00:18:39
230 Berero

What do you think of those gnats who refused to fight Hitler because they said the war was England's problem?

Are you proud of them?

Or ashamed of them?



189

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:22:37
233
Stan Butler

A gnat is a flying insect.

And your intellectual superior.

190

brownlie,

22/06/2009 00:25:05
233 Stan Butler

lol lol - I always thought the fight was against the whole of Germany and now you reveal it was just Hitler they were fighting. Was Hitler a fighting man then? How many people did he fight? I'll bet Sonny Liston would have given him a square-go.
191

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 00:30:50
234 Berero,

Still in denial?

It's amazing how so many gnats are so ignorant about Scottish nationalism.

192

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:37:11
238
Stan Butler

"It's amazing how so many gnat..."

Still not learned to spell. What a balloon!

193

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:41:21
239
Berero, looking to the night sky for inspiration

The idiot has had plenty opportunity to provide some authoritative evidence to support his moronic assertions. He has failed in this as he will surely fail in all things. The smell of failure oozes from every one of his increasing desperate posts.

You must ask yourself. Is it really fair to continue to taunt one so obviously inadequate.

194

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 00:47:50
243
Berero, looking to the night sky for inspiration

"...he has been on here for over 14 hours."

I have probably been here at least that long. But I work on a computer all the time. So it's easy just to come here in between doing other things.

195

Brianwci,

22/06/2009 02:32:16
"ALEX Salmond is continuing to reject calls for him to open up his diaries...."

And the Scotsman is continuing to report that he is continuing to reject.....ad nausea.

What's wrong, no real news out there?
196

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 10:48:03
From The Times
May 5, 2007
The inglorious arrival of the Scot Nats
Graham Stewart

How smug is Alex Salmond today? Is the SNP really on the march? Far from being a creation of the 1970s, when optimists imagined Cromarty could be the Qatar for pullover wearers, the SNP got its first taste of electoral glory as early as 1945. The circumstances were not exactly glorious.

Europe in the 1930s may have been springtime for nationalism. But not in Scotland. Formed in 1934, the SNP did little more than attract some highly educated and distinguished misfits. The crunch came in 1939 when the party had to decide whether to back Britain’s war effort.

The situation was difficult because the SNP chairman, Andrew Dewar Gibb, was a crypto-fascist who thought Hitler had some sound ideas about the Jews. In this, he was out of step with his more left-leaning colleagues. Most supported the war but there were also a number of pacifists and arch-qualifiers. In October 1939, the SNP national council voted to support any Scot who refused to be conscripted.

Arthur Donaldson helped to run the Scottish Neutrality League and was briefly imprisoned because MI5 believed he was a potential quisling. He was temporarily expelled from the party, although this did not stop him becoming the SNP leader from 1960-69. The most prominent Nationalist, however, was Douglas Young, a lecturer in Greek at Aberdeen University. He refused to be conscripted, arguing that it was a violation of the Treaty of Union. The law concluded otherwise when, in 1942, he was brought to trial. The publicity did him no harm and he was elected the SNP’s new leader.

Amid the fury of Hitler’s war, Young assured members that “Scotland could only be defended by a Scottish government and a Scottish army”. Shortly after his release from Saughton Prison, Young stood in the 1943 Kirkcaldy by-election and came within 2,000 votes of beating the Labour candidate. Under Young’s eye-catching leadership, the SNP gathered momen
197

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 10:49:27


.....Amid the fury of Hitler’s war, Young assured members that “Scotland could only be defended by a Scottish government and a Scottish army”. Shortly after his release from Saughton Prison, Young stood in the 1943 Kirkcaldy by-election and came within 2,000 votes of beating the Labour candidate. Under Young’s eye-catching leadership, the SNP gathered momentum and its moment came in April 1945 when it won the Motherwell and Wishart by-election. Dr Robert McIntyre duly turned up at Westminster to take his seat.

But the occasion degenerated into farce. He refused to have the customary two sponsors. For more than an hour, the dispute held up Churchill, who was waiting to deliver his great oration on the death of Roosevelt. After a further 24 hours’ wrangling, a couple of reluctant Labour MPs were prevailed upon to sponsor him. A “sad nuisance” was Harold Nicolson’s take on the arrival of the SNP at Westminster.

The eminent diarist, perhaps not au fait with the Glaswegian expression “numptie”, need not have worried. McIntyre lasted only 23 days in Parliament. He was a victim of Labour’s 1945 general election landslide. Little wonder that it was 22 years before another Scot Nat was elected.
198

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 10:53:28


Check out the involvement of leading gnats in the Scottish Neutrality League, the United Scotland movement and National Aid Society.


WARNING
This activity may involve having to read books and possibly even having to visit a research library. If in any doubt consult a responsible adult.

199

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 11:38:02
Conscientious objectors came from all walks of life and had diverse reasons for refusing to engage in armed combat.
200

Observer,,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 12:38:10
What about the Republic of Ireland Stan ?

Do tell.
201

peter1958,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 13:42:26
Salmond Rejects Call To Open His Own Wallet.

Good grief, have you just figured that one out!
202

peter1958,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 13:56:23
Salmond Rejects Calls to Keep a Diary
(You know it makes sense!)
203

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 14:16:03
255 Observer


'What about the Republic of Ireland'


Are you referring to the Scot gnats who hid there during the war?

Or is that something else you didn't know about?



204

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 14:28:57
258
Stan Butler

The whole "gnats" thing is infantile and tedious. It is obvious you have no desire for, and cannot cope with, mature debate. But if you seek to pretend that this is what you are after then you are going to have to stop behaving like an ill-bred brat.

205

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 14:38:23
259 Electric Hermit,

Why did gnats like Ronald MacDonald Douglas leave Scotland to live in the Irish Republic during the war?

Let's have your mature response.
206

peter1958,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 14:41:00
It seems to me hermit the nats have a habit of attempting to play down any episode that fails to reflect them in anything less than an honourable light.

The Times report is simply a regurgitation of well reported events and I can certainly recall a Radio Scotland presentation that delved into the aspect of nationalist development - independence at any price or as Machiavelli would have put it "Is my enemy's enemy my friend?"

You will be heartened to learn that such passing thoughts were roundly and pretty well unanimously dismissed out of hand by the vast majority of the nat leadership who wanted nothing to do with fascism at any price - and reported as such by Radio Scotland too. So don't take too much umbrage.

What we should look at of course, is the propensity for the SNP to indulge in the cannabilism of its own membership - step forward nat nutters Siol nan Gaidheal!
207

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 14:44:50
251
Stan Butler

As a historian, we would expect Graham Stewart to exhibit a degree of objectivity when dealing with such matters. Unfortunately, as an arch-Tory and an ideological unionist, all vestiges of objectivity go out the window when he writes about challenges to a status quo which has provided him with considerable comfort.

Thus we get the reactionary vitriol of his 2007 Times diatribe quoted above. Not a piece of historical analysis, but a ranting polemic fuelled by the man's bitter, almost irrational, hatred of the SNP - arguably the principle challenge to his cosy little world.

Unlike Stewart and the less erudite anti-Scottish propagandists in this place who clutch at his coat-tails, I welcome challenges to established authority - whether it be a challenge to the union; a challenge to the political system within that union; or a challenge to the ruling elites who, in defence of their own bloated privilege, would send our young people to kill and die.

208

peter1958,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 14:45:32
And take a bow Ian Blackfoot, Margo MacDonald, Jim Sillars, Dorothy Grace Elder and even dear old Alex Neil - robbed of his chance to stand for the leadership of the SNP by the present incumbent.
209

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 14:46:38
260
Stan Butler

"Let's have your mature response."

That is something you will have to earn. And you will not do so by continuing to behave like an ill-bred brat. To whatever extent you are capable, start acting like a grown-up.

210

peter1958,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 14:48:31
Because hermit, when it comes to the black arts of politics and expense reallocation the SNP don't need to take lessons from anyone.

Where they shine is in the art of unabashed and barefaced hypocrisy!
211

peter1958,

Glasgow 22/06/2009 14:49:58
Keep going Stan - pretty soon he will call you unscottish! Gane set and match when that happens.
212

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 15:04:13
261
peter1958

I have no problem with acknowledging any reasoned analysis of the SNP's history. What I reject are the distortions and exaggerations that are being peddled for propaganda purposes.

Small and large "n" nationalists were involved in opposition to war during the late thirties and early forties. So were a far larger number of unionists. All had their reasons - either as a matter of personal conscience, political philosophy or religious belief.

To try to portray opposition to the war as a phenomenon exclusively or even particularly associated with nationalists (or any other single group) is a distortion of fact sufficient as to be termed a lie.

Those days are past now. And in the past, they must remain. The modern, progressive Scottish National Party may be a product of its past, as all political movements must be, but it is not locked in that past in the way that ideological unionists are. The SNP looks to the future. As do those like myself who are not party members but who support the objective of secession from the union.

We are not living in 1939. It is seven decades on and a whole new century. It is time some people realised this.

213

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 15:05:35
261
peter1958

"...step forward nat nutters Siol nan Gaidheal!"

I thought we were discussing the SNP.

214

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 15:07:01
263
peter1958

"And take a bow Ian Blackfoot, Margo MacDonald, Jim Sillars, Dorothy Grace Elder and even dear old Alex Neil - robbed of his chance to stand for the leadership of the SNP by the present incumbent."

Internal party politics. No different from any other party. Try to be grown-up about it.

215

Electric Hermit,

22/06/2009 15:16:32
265
peter1958

"Because hermit, when it comes to the black arts of politics and expense reallocation the SNP don't need to take lessons from anyone.

Where they shine is in the art of unabashed and barefaced hypocrisy!"

So you share the ideological unionists' irrational hatred of the SNP and the fact that it challenges the status quo. It was hardly a secret that there were still a few such reactionaries lurking in the dank corners of Scottish politics. They will not stand in the way of progress. The people of Scotland will decide.

But you should learn one thing. A lesson that has been completely lost on the hacks of the British Labour Party. You will not win over the Scottish electorate with the kind of negative hate campaign which has been all the Tory/BLP alliance have offered so far. If you have any positive arguments in favour of Scotland remaining in the anachronistic and redundant union that is the UK, then you had better drag them out and dust them off pretty damned quick.

The old guard are teetering on the rim of the bowl. The sewer of history awaits. And the people of Scotland have their hand on the flush.

216

Stan Butler,

22/06/2009 16:56:44

Well I think we all now realise that any Scottish Quisling would have been a gnat.

Which just makes it all the funnier when gnats use the word as a term of abuse for those who disagree with them.




217

Brianwci,

23/06/2009 15:55:43
The only people in Scotland still talking about Salmond's expenses are the British Nationalist trolls on here and the the British Nationalist journos who live off this upmarket tabloid.

 

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