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Brown urged to claw back devolved powers from Holyrood

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Published Date: 24 February 2008
UK MINISTERS and business chiefs are calling for Alex Salmond to be stripped of his ability to block nuclear power stations and Trident warheads in Scotland, as part of a major review of Holyrood's powers.
They want to use a cross-party commission on the Scottish Parliament to ensure its powers over planning are handed to Westminster.

Salmond has vowed to block any new nuclear power stations in Scotland by rejecting planning applications.

The SNP Government may also prevent the construction of docks for the Trident nuclear submarines on the Clyde, forcing the Ministry of Defence to move them elsewhere.

Labour ministers now claim that, as matters such as energy and defence relate to national security, no devolved government should be able to defy London's will.

The calls were led by Defence Minister Adam Ingram, the MP for East Kilbride.

On nuclear energy, Ingram said: "I believe that the powers of frustration that Alex Salmond is now using to the highest degree should be taken away and placed in the hands of people who do understand and have taken concern of energy security."

On Trident, he added: "What Salmond is saying is that he is prepared to use the same powers in terms of the environment and planning to end the location of Trident on the Clyde. Whether you are for or against Trident, it isn't right that it should be the remit of the devolved administration to frustrate the will of the nation."

Ingram's call over nuclear energy is also being made by the director of the Confederation of British Industry in Scotland, Iain McMillan.

He said: "The commission should examine the feasibility of moving the planning consent powers from Scottish ministers to the Secretary of State for Scotland.

"It currently allows Scottish ministers to frustrate UK energy policy. In my view this is a serious matter and needs to be looked at."

Pro-nuclear Scottish Labour MP John Robertson, who chairs the cross-party group on nuclear energy at Westminster, said:

"I would raise this because my thoughts are for the people that are going to need a service in Scotland. We are going to reach a stage in 2025 when there is going to be a shortage of energy."

The moves put further pressure on Wendy Alexander, the leader of the Labour group at the Scottish Parliament. She put forward the idea of the commission as a way of ensuring Holyrood has more financial responsibility.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown appeared to back the case for more financial powers last week, but he also warned that the review would be a "two-way street".

One Labour MP said last night: "If they want more powers at Holyrood, then they're going to have to give some back."

Sources close to the prime minister have singled out climate change and counter-terrorism as two other areas where powers might go back to Westminster.

A Whitehall source said: ""Environmental issues were devolved for good reasons, but it's now a much bigger issue than it was in the 1990s when the Scotland Act was being drafted."

The commission is now set for a split, as senior Liberal Democrat MPs rejected Brown's demand for a two-way exchange of powers.

Alastair Carmichael, the MP for Orkney and Shetland, said: "The Prime Minister must finally swallow the bitter pill and accept that devolution is not going to be a two-way street.

"The commission process is about giving more powers to the Scottish Parliament. A return of powers from Holyrood to Westminster is not on the agenda."

A spokesman for the Scottish Conservatives said it would be wrong to pre-judge the outcome of the commission.

"We need an independently chaired commission so that the facts can be laid out in front of the country. There may be powers that go back to Westminster but it is still likely that, if there are changes, the majority would go the other way."

An SNP spokesman said: "Wendy Alexander's commission was supposed to be about boosting the powers of the Parliament, but now Downing Street has taken charge of it, relegated it to a mere working party and Gordon Brown is talking about clawing powers back."

He added: "It is an extremely foolish and self-defeating road for the Labour party to go down, which will further damage their standing in Scotland.

"The Scottish Parliament as a whole has voted against both a new Trident nuclear weapons system being dumped in Scotland and unnecessary new nuclear power stations."



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 February 2008 7:03 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Nuclear energy , Labour Party
 
1

Jimmy the Pie,

24/02/2008 00:12:45
Go on Broon try your hand! Your finished and you know it.
Roll on election day.
2

The Strategist,

24/02/2008 00:18:10
According to the Sunday Times there is also a plan to close Devonport Dockyard and move all nuclear sub work to Faslane.
3

BIG EYE,

Paisley 24/02/2008 00:21:15
If Labour try this it will be like handing the SNP another 250,000 votes and the Labour Party will be torn asunder with the remnants no longer able to invent excuses to remain in a Party that sold them all out years ago!
4

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 24/02/2008 00:22:34
Aye Gordon made a great job of rallying his Scottish troups right enough!

Somehow I don't think Labours Scottish MP's would be spouting this kind of rubbish if they thought there was any chance of Gordon disagreeing with it, but I don't think it's what Wendy had in mind, although of course for Gordons backing she will just do as she is told.

However it's high time the Lib'dems and Tory's were speaking up, it's supposed to be their comission too or should that be review.
5

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 00:24:48
With regard to Trident Mr Adam Ingram MP says:"...it isn't right that it should be the remit of the devolved administration to frustrate the will of the nation."

Had Mr Ingram MP been more in touch with Scotland than his adopted home of London, he would know that getting rid of Trident is the will of the Nation.

Now should Mr Ingram MP and his colleagues in Westminster remove planning powers from Holyrood which would help to get rid of Trident, it is he and his fellow power mongering Westminster MPs who will be frustrating the will of the Nation.

If battle lines are being drawn over this issue then we are playing for high stakes indeed, stakes that go way beyond the issue of Trident.

With the vast majority of Scots including many of the Trade Unions and even many in the Labour Party supporting the removal of Trident I wouldn't have thought that this was the issue with which to challenge the SNP Government head on.
6

democrate,

central Scotland 24/02/2008 00:38:03
diffcult to resist:-

"Come on then Gordy; if you think you are hard enough!"

The removal of any powers from Holyrood these days has one inevitable conclusion - bring it on.
7

,

24/02/2008 00:38:34
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8

Hamish Scott,

24/02/2008 00:40:49
Further proof that Scottish labour at Westminster have completely lost the plot.
9

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 24/02/2008 00:42:12
Ok if it's to be a two way street, we'll swap you. You can have Scottish planning and we'll have English planning, sound fair?
10

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24/02/2008 00:42:28
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11

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 00:50:26
He He.It just keeps getting better, eh?
12

Sanny,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 00:56:27
Surely the lunatics have taken over the asylum! When the drive for more control of our nation is growing at an increasing pace, these arrogant idiots think now is a good time to threaten the Scots with the loss of the little control they have. By their actions they will have demonstrated to those who were uncertain about independence, that London and SE corporate greed have no regard for our nation or its people.

If GB is stupid enough (and he probably is) to try to emasculate the Scottish government, he may have street riots or worse. Let us make it clear; Scotland has no need for nuclear power nor the desire to harbour Nuclear Subs armed with Nuclear weapons.

Global Warming is a non-argument as recent events are showing. We can build coal fired station to provide all the power we need until all our “renewable” power sources are fully developed. The waste products from modern Coal fired Stations are easier to contain for the short term required. Nuclear stations provide a waste problem that only reduces by half in ten thousand years.

This labour government has proved it is not only incompetent but also corrupt it is time they were removed and for Scotland, replaced with a Scottish centric government. These Labour MP’s have proven to be even sleazier than their Tory predecessors.

13

3000 Staples for 99p,

24/02/2008 01:02:35
Alex Salmond abused his powers and now the UK is taking them back off him for being an abusive, manipulative, trouble maker.

Good!
14

williamx,

canada 24/02/2008 01:16:06
Put a nuclear tax on all facilities payable to Holyrood based on what insurance companies estimate would be necessary if a foreign power nuked Faslane in starting a war. After all what is the cost to the central belt if the base was nuked. Would make Chernoble look like small potatoes. Wouldn't be long before Brown would shut it down and move it south rather than pay legitimate insurance fees. He's a cheap blighter.
15

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24/02/2008 01:22:00
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16

Hebb,

Scotia 24/02/2008 01:29:20
This is classic dinosaur Labour behaviour, an absolute gift to the SNP and the movement for Independence. Defeated at the polls in May for being completely out of touch with the mood of the Scottish people, Labour proves yet again that it is simply incapable of representing the Scottish interest.

17

karinxx,

24/02/2008 01:30:45
14 taking him back off him are you a complete eejit they cant. The people would have to vote in a referendum for the powers to be handed back.
18

karinxx,

24/02/2008 01:32:30
Broon wants us to riot thats the point then he can move the soldiers in. Not a chance are we rioting.
19

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24/02/2008 01:41:34
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karinxx,

24/02/2008 01:42:41
ooh looks like annabel is getting cold feet now that is the first time i have heard anything about an indpendent chaired commmission. scottish tories are now obviously saying reverse reverse.
21

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 01:46:07
That's funny I seem to recall us having a referendum on devolution in 97 and an overwhelming majority of Scots voting for it!
And I recall us having an election just last year for it when the Labour party were able to put forward their manifesto to the electorate.

And now London Labour wants to defy the democratic will of the Scottish people just because they don't like the result-for shame!
22

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24/02/2008 01:48:55
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24/02/2008 01:54:07
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karinxx,

24/02/2008 01:54:29
well at least now we know who said they can call themselves the white heather club.
25

karinxx,

24/02/2008 01:56:54
broon the clown, what a doughball.
26

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 01:57:30
23
You should get some friends.

I know it will be hard but please try.
27

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24/02/2008 02:02:19
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3000 Staples for 99p,

24/02/2008 02:03:18
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7261161.stm

Did you read Connery, citizen and resident of the bahamas, raving on about 1707!

Bloody typical of the SNP. Move on.
29

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 02:12:23
Disappointed particularly that Annabelle's lot haven't came out stronger on this one. In any other country you can expect the party on the 'right' to stand up for the country's national interest against foreign interference. Yet here is our 'conservative' party meekly giving into London bullying.
for shame!
30

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24/02/2008 02:12:58
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24/02/2008 02:17:45
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24/02/2008 02:22:48
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Richardinho,

24/02/2008 02:23:41
#32 The Scottish national interest should ALWAYS come first. I make no apologies for that. I'll have not truck with the unionists who think in 'the spirit of generosity', we should bend over and be shafted by London.
34

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2008 02:27:54
PLEASE ALLOW THE LIKES OF "STAPLES", fakey "AYRSHIRE SCOT", etc their comments. They are a godsend to the cause of Independence.

But, also, do not reply to them as they reply to themselves if they get no response. They are perfectly capable of discrediting themselves.

Please feel free to comment Staples.
35

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24/02/2008 02:28:02
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24/02/2008 02:29:56
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Richardinho,

24/02/2008 02:30:27
#37 What you detect as 'smugness' is actually self-assurance. Being so insecure yourself, it's understandable why you feel so threatened by that.
38

karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:32:22
ahh i see more towns in england want to be scottish thats nice. sadly i dont think gordon will let them. I think the people will just have to move to scotland. I hope they do.

http://www.scottishsundayexpress.co.uk./posts/view/35922/More-towns-say-Make-us-Scottish
39

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24/02/2008 02:32:34
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karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:33:21
richardinho totally agree people who lack confidence think everyone is out to get them.
41

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24/02/2008 02:33:51
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42

karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:34:34
You know richardhino as i am sure you do the only reason staples goes on as he does is because he is jelous and cant stand the fact that people are more confident than him.
43

karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:35:40
those staples are getting cheaper arent they last time he was 2000 for 99p
44

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24/02/2008 02:36:53
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24/02/2008 02:38:11
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46

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 02:38:18
Just in case anyone is in any doubt over where '3000 staples' (and more than one screw loose) is coming from , he's over on another thread complaining about 'whining jews'. Clearly he's got an advanced persecution complex going on. it's fairly sad and I would agree with those that it's probably best to ignore him in case he gets over-excited and bursts some of those staples holding his brain together.
47

karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:39:58
anyway i see the speakers aide has resigned. I also noticed in the herald that trish godman also a speaker although a deputy has a son who is in the jail for fraud. mrs godman apparently bought a house off her son for less than the market value while he was awaiting his trial. Talk about shafting people especially your own son. terrible. She might have given him the full market value what with him needing the money for legal fees. Then again perhpas he didnt as he bought his brother a house and also had shares in celtic football club.
48

karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:42:02
I know traquir it shows him up thats why shows everyone what unionist supporters are like
49

karinxx,

24/02/2008 02:42:57
I think the final nails are now going into labours coffin.
50

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24/02/2008 02:44:21
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24/02/2008 02:47:16
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24/02/2008 02:50:53
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,

24/02/2008 02:51:49
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54

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 02:52:59
'knob tool penis scrotum'

That may be his real name.

55

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24/02/2008 02:56:24
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24/02/2008 02:56:43
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24/02/2008 02:59:06
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58

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 02:59:49
#62 I wasn't going to join in, but when I saw how much fun everyone else was having kicking the corpse, I thought I'd have a go too.
59

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24/02/2008 03:03:04
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24/02/2008 03:06:29
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61

Richardinho,

24/02/2008 03:14:41
#67 Staples, i wouldn't give you the power to go to the toilet on your own, let alone anything else.
62

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 03:15:27
Proud Doonhamer, sorry I didnt notice, but who exactly are you referring to?.

Its very quiet on these forums today, except for the corruption stories on New Labour, Idle threats from London Parties and Eddie Barnes still bleeting on about his attempts to win favour from his Editor by trying to stir up racial divisions between Scottish People and our English Neighbours.

Aye but it is Sunday I suppose.
63

karinxx,

24/02/2008 03:15:41
stpales may god bring down a thousand curses on your garden and may the curse of mary magdalene and her nine blind illegitimate children chase you so far over into the land of Damnation that the lord himself cant find you with a laser sight.

64

karinxx,

24/02/2008 03:17:12

a pox on you staples may your groin be infested with fleas and your arms shrink so that you cant scratch.
65

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24/02/2008 03:18:54
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24/02/2008 03:19:52
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karinxx,

24/02/2008 03:22:30
is he gone i was just warming up..............
68

,

24/02/2008 03:26:48
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2008 03:28:02
Is Staples that strange person, from the Western Isles, who was posting before, and during the election?

I seem to remember that he claimed to be a sniper.

Does anyone else see the simianarity?
70

karinxx,

24/02/2008 03:28:19
aww i hate it when they do that. I was gonna have a slag fest with him.
71

karinxx,

24/02/2008 03:29:14
76 I dont think he is actually a person as such. More of a half human half alien hybrid.
72

Andrew D,

24/02/2008 03:40:47
Incredible move from Labour. I honestly can't believe they would *publically* consider it. Sure privately in their meetings and junkets sit and bitch about the Scots (the people are just a means to an end; no nonsense about serving the will of them at all) but to publically come out and say we want to take away powers from your nation?

It beggars belief...

As for the Tories and Libdems silent complicity I think that speaks volumes to their *real* feelings about devolution. Wimps and backstabbers the lot of them, all those Unionist parties.

Even if Labour don't go ahead with this plans I hope the Scots are listening to what their "traditional" (my granda voted labour, my da voted labour so i'll vote labour) party are talking about doing to them and their country.
73

Alec M,

Falkirk 24/02/2008 03:53:15
76 and 78 - another brain cell and he'd have a synapse, though the shock might kill him.
74

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2008 03:53:53
I believe that one of the first powers that Brown wants to repatriate to Westminster is the use of staples. The reason is, I believe, that he thinks that they may be used to attach dodgy documents, e.g. WMDs, EC reports.
75

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 24/02/2008 04:02:51
Fantastic Labour,a plan well thought out, take back something that the people voted legitimately for. Well you've shown your cards too soon and have given the unsure voters the road to INDEPENDENCE is now WIDE OPEN.Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou!!!!!!
76

blueguru,

US 24/02/2008 05:07:50
I remember the days when Adam Ingram was a half-baked cooncilor in a half-baked East Kilbride Labour Party. Now he has risen to the dizzy heights of being a half-baked defence minister in a half-baked Labour Government. He could not be doing more to help the SNP if he were on the payroll! What a clown!
77

An Beal Bacht,

24/02/2008 06:20:51
Here's the whole argument:

" ... no devolved government should be able to defy London's will."

DEFY LONDON! WELL - WE ARE - TRY AND STOP US - I DEFY YOU!
78

subrosa,

24/02/2008 06:41:13
# 19

What soldiers karin? They're all away fighting these wars or leaving the services in droves.
79

John S,

24/02/2008 06:53:07
Adam Ingram said - Whether you are for or against Trident, it isn't right that it should be the remit of the devolved administration to frustrate the will of the nation.

Surely any democratically elected Scottish Government and Parliament has the unquestionable right, and indeed duty, to express themselves on any issue that concerns the welfare of the people and land of Scotland.
80

Jimmy the Pie,

24/02/2008 07:38:00
#76 Frank.

I think he's from the Falkirk/Central area, is unemployed, used to follow Rangers when he worked, and loved nothing better than shouting sectarian abuse, and professing loyalty to Queen and country.
Sadly there are too many like him around but they're disappearing faster than a Labour MP when he sees a polis man.

Best pity and ignore him.

;-)
81

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 08:08:52
I thought that independance for Scotland was actually going to take some time, it looks as some members of the labour goverment in Westminster want to put it on a fast track. What a fantastic issue they seem to want to hand the SNP. I can just see how this will play out. The SNP in Scotland will call an election on this issue. Does Scotland want to have Nukes shoved down its throat or do we want Independance. Scottish Labour will be even more schitzophrenic than usual, forced to chose between hanging on to any seats and serving their masters in Westminster would just be to much for them. They all have to be sectioned under the mental health act. Stevie Nicks and the LibDems will take the decision to support neither option relegating themselves to a richly deserved oblivion. The Scottish Tories, well who cares what they think. Not matter what way they go you will still be able to count the seats on one hand. Thank you Mr. Ingram, you may well go down in History as the Father of Scottish Independance.
82

Alan Reid,

NZ 24/02/2008 08:29:31
3000 Staples for 99p, It is very very very clear that your a complete fool. But for the record who would you want us to vote for if not the SNP, surely not the corrupt Labour scumbags who once again seem to be up to their necks of slease.Please have a look at the following link.
And thanks for the link to Sir Sean, very interesting but then i've been a fan of his for a long time.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2068685.0.0.php
83

An Beal Bacht,

24/02/2008 08:38:31
Defy London!!!
84

An Beal Bacht,

24/02/2008 08:50:23
BJORK

"Declare Independence"

Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!
Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!

Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!
Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!

Start your own currency!
Make your own stamp
Protect your language

Declare independence
Don't let them do that to you
Declare independence
Don't let them do that to you

[x4] Make your own flag!

[x6] Raise your flag!

Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!
Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!

Damn colonists
Ignore their patronizing
Tear off their blindfolds
Open their eyes

Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!
Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!

With a flag and a trumpet
Go to the top of your highest mountain!

[x6] Raise your flag!

Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!
Declare independence!
Don't let them do that to you!

Raise the flag!

85

Steve,

Bo'ness 24/02/2008 08:58:37
Great to see Labour all at sea once again.
More powers=look more Scottish! Less powers, stuff the SNP! Whatever shall we do? Decisions decisions.

They're supposedly going to close down Devonport (a massive, well equipped naval base)and transfer the subs to Faslane (a jetty on the Clyde)...
I don't think so somehow.
Who are they trying to kid? The Scottish people?
86

portonian,

falkirk 24/02/2008 09:13:20

I cannot imagine Westminster would be so stupid

as to try and carry out this worthless plan I can only

suggest it is an attempt to have our own homegrown

terrorist industry and increase arms sales on the home

market, Scotland will go the same way as ireland forced

there by Westminster then there will be nothing to

argue about.The lib-dems will then charge in to the

rescue Not a parcel of rogues just a pack of idiots
87

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 09:14:26
Is Staples gone? I hope he's not banned. His foul-mouthed unionist rantings are helping the independence cause no end. Perhaps the lodge has a march today. Campaign in order methinks:

FREE THE STAPLES ONE

Or not!
88

James,

Dundee 24/02/2008 09:24:07
The 'end of days' for the Union.

Huzzah, three times hurrah for New Labour, and the accident prone UK Government.
89

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 09:28:42
The government would be very foolish indeed to be influenced into amending the Scotland Act in order to recall certain powers to Westminster?

IF, certain powers are to be recalled simply for the sake of political expediency, and once again reserved by the U.K. government, then the only beneficiary will be the Nationalist Movement!

Gordon Brown is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't! Brown knows all this does is booost Salmond's position!

90

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 09:47:00
Seems to be 'ONLY' the usual 'Nationalist' extremists commenting there normal pro snp-tripe.............

Westminster is the supreme power within the U.K. and recognized as such by every nation and institution throughout the World.

Why should Westminster be concerned with a rag tag bunch of malcontents. Who have no constitutional standing outside of the Westminster writ....
91

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 09:52:32
Be honest what can you lot do apart from whinge..........call a national strike.............please do call every one out on the streets to protest and then we will all see how little support for your 'extremist' views there is in Scotland..............

Go on do it..........its time.........
92

An Beal Bacht,

24/02/2008 09:53:57
98 - Nikostratos, 24/02/2008 09:47:00 writes:

"Why should Westminster be concerned with a rag tag bunch of malcontents. Who have no constitutional standing outside of the Westminster writ...."

Apparently they are Niko - very very concerned!
93

Marian,

24/02/2008 09:54:35
Why does New Labour want to keep the Trident nuclear attack submarines based in the Clyde when the overwhelming majority of Scots want them removed from Scotland?

Why Is it part of the "Union Dividend" to have hundreds of Nuclear weapons kept 80 miles from Edinburgh and 36 miles from Glasgow?

Why does New Labour want to build more nuclear fueled generation capacity in Scotland, when Scotland already has electricity generation over-capacity and bountiful reserves of sources of alternative energy?

Why does New Labour want to build more nuclear fueled electricity generation capacity in Scotland, when Countries which are very similar to Scotland, i.e. Denmark, Eire, Finland, and Norway, who are facing the same energy demands, do not deem it necessary or desirable to invest in nuclear power?
94

Queen D,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 09:56:46
It might be my dicey memory,but I thought all the Scottish parties were in agreemnet over 'Trident 2'
Am I right or wrong?
As for devolving powers away from Scotland , oh how I laughed!
Try it Big Boy!!
95

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 09:59:46
Well thank good for Nutty Niko, I thought 3000 Staples was the only Unionist demented enough to try and defend the indefensible. But where are the other usual unionist apologists, Grahamski and AM2. Either having a lie in or to sensible to take the bait.
96

An Beal Bacht,

24/02/2008 10:01:00
99 - Nikostratos, 24/02/2008 09:52:32 writes:

" we will all see how little support for your 'extremist' views there is in Scotland............."

It is not the nationalists who are threatening to "claw" back powers here Nico. The extremists are those London labourites who are absolutely dyspepsic over the idea that Scotland can "DEFY LONDON".
97

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24/02/2008 10:08:22
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Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:14:00
#98 '..Why should Westminster be concerned with a rag tag bunch of malcontents. Who have no constitutional standing outside of the Westminster writ..'

What a maniacal statement! Queue pro-union nutter branding ANY nationalist as a loony. If you read back matey, you'll find all the lunatic posts are from half-wit, non-nonsensical, frothy mouthed Neanderthals like staples.

In any case, let ma answer your point above. If you can call it a point.

The Scottish people. Presumably, as these 'malcontents' - and this parliament - support the will of the Scottish people, who DO NOT want your UK nuclear weapons and DO NOT want nor NEED nuclear powers stations, well - I'm guessing they should be concerned with that.

Labour's commitment to Scotland. Short history:

- Back, to the hilt, the devolved govt. It'll secure the labour vote in Scotland forever. Plus, it'll never upset the UK applecart

- Speak down to the Scottish people for eight years and remind them of the 'seven plagues' that'll blight there lives, should the SNP ever get in. Lie, cheat and adapt a purely scaremongering policy when addressing the people.

- Errr, realise that the SNP govt. seem to be doing rather well. Support seems to be coming from areas we'd never considered. OK. Chop down their budget...

-...they're still progressing? Oh no. What to do? This govt. are blocking some serious British desires/requirements. Where are we gonna place our nuclear weapons? How can we possibly hold on to English voices if we built ALL nuclear power stations down there ['cos Scotland doesn't need 'em - damn!].

- Right. Lets skew - beyond belief - Sottish Labour's half-baked, unionist only attempts at stimmying SNP support. Let's take that. Let's own that. Let's attempt to portray an exchange of selected tax raising powers [eh??] with crucial, nationally important mechanisms to deny nuclear weapons and power stations. LET'S CHANGE THE GOALPOSTS IN THIS SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT altogether.

Please. I do
99

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:14:18
....Please. I don't care who your father voted for, or if you drank with the red rose social at the yards, every Friday, from 1962. This beggars belief. This is a ruin of democracy. This is also a desperate act from a desperate London party.

This astonishes, and clearly reveals Labour's roots and priorities are NOTHING TO DO with Scotland.

Defy this. Deny this. Shout out the hypocrisy from the roof tops and do not allow Brown to bumble on, and lie that he - and his London party - or his lap dogs in Scotland - have anything like your interest at heart.
100

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:18:02
Staples, you are a half-witted maniac who makes one yearn for the days of arguing with myopic dinosaurs like AM2. At least they could speak the language.

Here's your crayon. **** off back to your room. Mummy has made you some special soldiers with your eggy-peggy.
101

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24/02/2008 10:21:36
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102

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 10:23:29
3000 Staples
Obviously you are much more learned in military strategy than us "teets". Perhaps you can enlighten us about why the Clyde is so difficult to navigate. Is it all those empty Chip Boxes fouling the "enemies" propellers? Or perhaps its having all the Navigation Charts in Gaelic? Please do enlighten us, Oh Great Excrementalist.
103

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24/02/2008 10:24:03
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104

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:24:11
Heh-heh.

Duhhh - hewwwooo Staples. Hope du stitches in yer labot...lab...labot....sore heed urni hurting ye any. Duhhhh.

Hohoho. You a priceless. Can we use you to communicate the free thought of a labour voter in Scotland? I think most of 'em would be abhorred by the notion.

Brown gave the parliament the skinniest settlement in moons. Why? Cos the SNP WON - WON WON WON - the election. Simple.

Like you. Duuuuuuh.

Hehehehehe.
105

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:26:15
Eh? Your weird comments are increasingly bizarre. Hey! We're not gonna read about an assignation attempt on Sean are we - like Mark Chapman and Lennon - given you're apparently so obsessed by the man?
106

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:27:11
Staples, you can only communicate on one level....in fact, can we call that a level? Swearing at folk, with NO answers and NO substance to anything you say?

Here, you're not a Labour MSP are ye?
107

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24/02/2008 10:29:35
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108

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:30:28
Nipping down for a cuppa. Any other human beings out there who can hang around some and engage in staples 'political commentary'? Granted, we might not see him on Andrew Marr - but for comic value alone, it's worth it...

...you couldn't make this up. ;o)
109

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24/02/2008 10:30:45
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110

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 10:31:57
115. Your care in the community budget? The budget for gaurding whatever secure unit you reside in? Who knows? ( I suspect few care)

Are you one of Wendy's spin-doctors? If not, I suggest you apply when the next vacancy arises.
111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 10:32:38
117. Is Faslane a verb now?
112

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24/02/2008 10:34:27
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113

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:34:43
Duuuuuh. Staples....the settlement from the UK coffers - Brown's settlement. Deliberate, with the sour taste of bad karma following defeat in Scotland. Duuhhhhhh.

Can you remind us about your own political viewpoints again? I mean, outside the cursing and the insidious rancid smell of your hate? I know you think, what was it - that our first minister. An anti-nuclear advocate of Scottish autonomy is a 'terrorist backer' and an'abusive, manipulative, trouble maker'.

But hey, enlighten us...hold on. Hehehehehe. I'm gonna need a chair. Don't want to hurt my head when I fall over laughing... ;o)
114

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24/02/2008 10:37:03
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Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:37:23
Hohohohoho. '..Smug, pedantic fool..'

Staples...your limited vocabulary reminds me of another poster. You're not 'wessexman' or 'hereward the awake' from CEP fame are ye? ;o)

Did mammy not tuck you in last night staples. Awwwwwww.

116

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:39:04
Increased in real terms. Really? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Hohohoohohohohohohoho.

Oh god, my sides are sore with your bile Staples. Hold on, gonna get some more friends to huddle round the monitor. It's popcorn time!
117

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 10:39:52
See Staples has returned to afford us his insight and wisdom. Great stuff. Lodge march must have finished early. Back to save the union. Abusive language and no substance - must be Cllr Terry Kelly in disguise!

http://councillorterrykelly.blogspot.com/
118

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24/02/2008 10:40:08
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119

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 10:42:29
3000 Staples holding together my thoughts
You still havn't explained why Faslane is so much more defensible from our imagined enemies. Who are these "enemies"? The Russians? The Chinese? The EU? Please keep posting.
120

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24/02/2008 10:43:33
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121

megz,

glasgow 24/02/2008 10:43:39
who didn't see this coming? Is this the new remit of wee wendy's weview. Give them nothing.
122

Cam3,

24/02/2008 10:44:04
It's the chinoterrorussians, isn't it staples?

Hahahahahaha.

God in heaven, never seen such lunacy. How does it feel to have lost the election staples...? ;o)
123

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24/02/2008 10:45:19
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 10:46:28
128. The expansionist Faroes? Iceland?
125

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24/02/2008 10:50:04
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126

megz,

glasgow 24/02/2008 10:51:05
Whether you are for or against Trident, it isn't right that it should be the remit of the devolved administration to frustrate the will of the nation."

As far as i was aware the will of the nation was against trident. Why do Scottish labour mps hate Scotland so much?
127

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 24/02/2008 10:53:12
Surely the adjudicators on S.O.S should step in and remove the posts by 3000 staples. His comments are crude, unnecessary and do no justice to fair discussions.There are little enough conduits for reasonable posts in responsible newspapers in Scotland. S.O.S. editor, get shot of this unfortunate individual! Do you want to be rated as a competitor with the Sun and Daily Record?
128

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24/02/2008 10:53:13
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 10:53:43
3000 staples and no crayons
"Do you think our Generals role a dice to place them you tit?" And I thought it was politicians like Mr. Ingram. Other than having any obvious obsession with male genitalia you dont seem to be very forthcoming.
130

Rodster,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 10:55:24
Oh please ,Mr. Bean Do it!!! bring it on ....
every day it justs gets better and better the end of that cesspit they call Westminster is nigh.
The problem with it is it never learns ,every time a country under its dominion tries to regain self determination for itself it ends up in conflict and chaos ensues , ergo Ireland , Cyprus , Aden , Kenya ,Palestine et al.
It was that hero of the Union Winston Churchill that one said " you cannot look forward without firstly looking back."
I would suggest Gordy Boy you have a good look , if you deny Scottish Civil Rights the way previous governments did in the aforementioned countries .
I would suggest that there are not enough soldiers in the British army to keep the people down.
also the ballot box in Scotland will crucify your rag tag party once and for all.
You perhaps think it is only the Tories (official that is) that the Scots would do that to., well go down this crazy path of trying to reclaim anything back to Westminster and see what happens .
Annabel and Nicol time for you to distance yourselves from the corrupt mob ,or you to will pay the price .


131

megz,

glasgow 24/02/2008 10:55:24
two sandwiches short of a picnic more like
132

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 10:55:30
Please don't remove staples comments their hillarious!
133

megz,

glasgow 24/02/2008 10:56:53
it will be interesting to see how this years elections will go, there are reports of 300 labour voters turning to conservative in derby.
134

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 10:57:15
137

Have reported him several times and as yet, nothing. His tripe brings the level of the board (and by extension the newspaper) down to gutter level. Perhaps what would persuade them would be that people are going to stop visiting and posting and this will have a serious impact on their advertising revenue.
135

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24/02/2008 10:57:22
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136

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24/02/2008 11:01:22
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tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 11:02:30
Yawn. 10 years old? 11?
138

weh,

24/02/2008 11:02:46
he Scots live in probably the most corrupt and backward society in western Europe, if not the world, outside the African states.

How the Scots arrived here, I know not-but I am heartened to see the strides the SNP are taking, and can only hope that one day in the not too distant future my fellow Scots will once again grow a backbone and be unafraid to take the next leap forward to independence.

If that aspiration should falter, and labour once again take charge, then the Scots will face reprisals (for supporting the SNP and daring to even CONTEMPLATE independence)the like of which has not been seen since the "Prague Spring."

We, in Scotland, are presently experiencing our own "Prague Spring" with our very own Alexander Dubcek-Alex Salmond!

Interesting times ahead!
139

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24/02/2008 11:03:08
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140

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 11:03:33
3000 staples in the closet
"Are you saying that UK defence decisions are made by politicians with no influence from the armed forces or risk analysis by the MoD" Given the state of the UK military and that they are planning a march on Westminster, yes that is exactly what im saying.
141

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24/02/2008 11:05:46
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142

puskas,

East kilbride 24/02/2008 11:06:22
Noted that a perfect candidate for Carstairs has posted openly today.



143

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 11:07:11
He's even abusing himself now (see #151). lol
144

Miss H,

24/02/2008 11:07:42
Incredible. You couldn't make it up. Who needs friends with enemies like these? They are doing our work for us.

145

Rodster,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 11:08:38
I refuse to use his name , however ladies and gentlemen , unionists and Nationalists alike ,ignore him he will eventually get bored and go back to doing whatever right wing morons do on a Sunday.
Probably involves an unsuspecting animal, or a family member,the latter I would suggest with the claptrap spewing from its bigoted mouth,lots of inbreeding there.
146

HIBERNIAN5,

a sunny moray garden 24/02/2008 11:09:14
see instead of writing your anguish here why not email mr ingram and mr broon personally gie them summit to do and dinnay forget wee wendy she needs summit new to chew on
147

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24/02/2008 11:10:27
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148

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 11:12:56
153. LOL. I had him down as a self-abuser, but seems he likes to do it in public at 151
149

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24/02/2008 11:13:59
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150

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 24/02/2008 11:16:12
In a last desperate effort to sustain their Bushido code and save the Emperor,a Japanese military general created the Kamikaze suicide pilot. Strikes me that Gordon Brown and his lieutenants (Adam Ingram, that once great opponent of nuclear weapons )in their own desperation at seeing defeat in the eye, are committing the very same doctrine. Boy, oh boy what a bitter pill to swallow. Mind you the truth for a politician is never easy to swallow! Keep going New Labour, you are making the job so much easier for the sane and the rational. Talk about sixes and sevens!
151

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 11:20:35
#106 Cam3,


"LET'S CHANGE THE GOALPOSTS IN THIS SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT"

Westminster not only own the goalposts but the playing field as well...They make the rules and if they wish change them half way through the game they can....All power is based at Westminster not at holyrood thats the U.K constitution if they wish to disband holyrood they have the 'Right' to do so..Thats the way it is........

51.72% of the Scottish electorate voted in the 2007 Scottish Parliament election of which the snp Share of Constituency Vote by Party was 32.9 the other 64.9 % Clearly voted for pro-union and therefore pro-Westminster party's.......................

So please do not confuse the snp policy's with the 'will of the Scottish people'
152

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 11:24:51
162. It would perhaps be helpful then if Unionist parties were to use the prefix "Westminster" or "London" on the ballot paper in future, rather than "Scottish".

You have ommitted voites for the greens, SSP, SEP, Solidairty and Margo in your calculation, and also the fact no unionist party stood on a platform of handing powers back to Westminster.
153

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 11:27:12
162

They may have voted for pro-Union parties but that is wholly different from being pro-Union. Many, many Labour, Lib Dem and Tory voters are pro-independence, or wavering on the issue.
154

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24/02/2008 11:27:49
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24/02/2008 11:29:07
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2008 11:30:39
#137, Il Penseroso.

The Unionist Alliance are now using the tactic of having damaging, to them, shut down.

This has been their modus operandi since the EC decision on Ms Alexander.

PLEASE DO NOT REPORT THE LIKES OF STAPLES, AND HIS ILK.

They are a godsend in the cause of Independence as they expose the Unionist Alliance for what it is.
157

Miss H,

24/02/2008 11:31:35
162 As you know I am a nationalist. I want want independence for Scotland. But just the same there is a part of me that wants to reach out to people like Adam Ingram and you and Staples and say have you gone completely and utterly mad?

Do you actually think you are going to get anywhere telling the Scottish people that Westminster make the rules and if they want to change them half way through they can. Westminster knows what is good for Scotland and you must obey.

This is car crash politics. We are witnessing the nervous breakdown of the Scottish Labour Party before our very eyes.

I find it strangely sad actually, though I welcome the consequences.
158

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 11:32:56
Looks like the powers that be are removing all the staples. If labour is still doing that cash for honors scheme maybe we could pass the hat around and get him a proper job. Lord Staples of Carstairs, has a nice ring to it.
159

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 11:34:15
169. Oh dear. Bet he is glad he wasted all his time on those deleted posts....
160

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 11:34:28
166

No.
How does that relate to what I said?
161

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24/02/2008 11:38:29
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162

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 24/02/2008 11:45:29
Just when Wendy thought that a one-brain-cell idea was coming to fruition, Gordon feels a certain loss of control and in a failed attempt to look a bit more "Scottish" tries to take it back off her again, but then blows it by insisting that the "review" (no longer a commission) will be 2-way traffic. Just not what Wendy had in mind, more like being the Labour boss in Scotland.

Then - bring on the clowns with a Cairns U-turn and the debacle is almost complete. But not quite we suspect... plenty more where that came from and the headline news about Martin and Godman confirms that.
163

Saul Tyre,

Germany 24/02/2008 11:52:22
Is this what Westminster calls a democratic process? If they want nuclear plants in Scotland, they will have to wait till the next time New Labour wins a Holyrood election. They can't just 'claw back' powers whenever they don't agree with SNP policies.

Roll on FULL independence!
164

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 11:52:27
172

I loathe having to reply to idiots like yourself but I will.

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1907907.0.0.php

This poll shows a figure higher than the number voting for the SNP. Logically you would have to say that those voters are coming from other parties.
There are more detailed polls showing the percentages from the other parties who would vote for independence, but to be honest your attitude doesn't justify me spending time searching for them.
165

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 12:05:17
#168 Miss H


Either in or out. Either wholly part of the U.K or wholly Independent...........Put an end to this half way house.......then when it's done if Independent fine..........If not then constitutionally Independence should be taken off the agenda forever by making the oath of allegiance include the maintenance of the United Kingdom......
Any person unable to do so should be proscribed from becoming an elected official within the U.K..........
166

Saul Tyre,

Germany 24/02/2008 12:05:31
#172

I used to eat plonkers like you for breakfast. You are what I used to refer to as my staple diet.
167

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 12:19:08
Nutty Niko wrote
"Independence should be taken off the agenda forever by making the oath of allegiance include the maintenance of the United Kingdom. Any person unable to do so should be proscribed from becoming an elected official within the U.K" I hate to use the "F" because those who bandie it about usually have lost argument, but explain to me why you think blind obedience to your ideology should be a prerequisit to holding public office. Has the Unionist side so failed to deliver any constructive argument for its maintainence that you see the only option for holding your pathetic little union together is make everyone swear blind obedience.
168

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24/02/2008 12:19:11
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169

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 12:19:52
#176

What kind of Junta are you aiming at? Would you also impose martial law?
170

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24/02/2008 12:24:21
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Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 12:27:50
Labour are steeped in their own myth-making about themselves. They believe they were the only party to deliver devolution. I seem to recall the Lib Dems playing a major part in the Convention and that Labour were keen to court the SNP to ensure they got a Yes/Yes vote. Now, ten years later, Brown is keen to limit devolution because it is causing him problems in England. Rather than find a solution for England, the solution (as always, it seems) is to limit the powers of the Scottish parliament (and Wales? Northern Ireland?). However, the genie is out of the bottle, Scots are very good at feeling aggrieved; so should Brown try this, he will further damage himself and his party in Scotland. It is clear that for Labour, depriving Scotland is the easy option. And they will always sieze the easy option.
172

Pilrig.,

Livingston 24/02/2008 12:30:36
Niko - you can take yer oath of allegiance and stick it where the Sun dont shine : )
173

tartan army 2222,

24/02/2008 12:33:56
185 methalions

Sorry mate - not aimed at you.
174

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2008 12:35:28
Perhaps If the Unionist forces in the UK resort to unconstitutional measures to thwart the will of the people of Scotland we should Gasprom you, just turn off the gas and show you who is really in charge.
175

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 12:39:56
Off to more serious issues...Does anyone know how to check a car alternator?.......anyway im about to find out.
176

shivago8,

livingston 24/02/2008 12:52:55
Why are they suddenly worried about this,this has surely taken there eye of the ball,the snout in the money trough ball.
Only making themselves more unpopular and soon the real Scots will be marching in Princes st showing anger at this ragbag labour party
177

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 13:00:00
#194 methalions

Duh...........Havent got a voltmeter.......but will take battery for a test tomorrow......meanwhile use other car.........although me car did conk out on me at 3 am in the morning on a roundabout the other night........missus not happy to pick me up.............

thanks for advice
178

Carlung,

Haddington 24/02/2008 13:10:49
Miss H (168) wrote:
This is car crash politics. We are witnessing the nervous breakdown of the Scottish Labour Party before our very eyes.
What a very good analogy. I find it hard to believe that these Labour politicians can't see the slow-motion crash coming towards them. The only way out for Scottish Labour is to start an INDEPENDENT Scottish Labour Party (free from London). It might bring them back some credibility. If, however, they remain dominated by London Labour, they are doomed to oblivion.
179

morris,

edinburgh 24/02/2008 13:15:02
Removal af any powers should be resisted at all costs,but these particular proposals are glaringly self explanatory!

Gordon Brown can have one purpose only in doing this and that is to install nuclear plants on Scottish soil and TRident, against the wishes of the Scottsh people.WE SHOULD TAKE TO THE STREETS and oppose this if it becomes neccessary.
Listen and listen good NEW LABOUR.

The days when you could dictate to Scotland are over.We are not your plaything anymore.
Try it ! I dare you!

SAOR ALBA
180

karinxx,

24/02/2008 13:15:20
Niko i find the easist way to narrow it down is too change the battery you can change the battery from another car if it fits. If the battery doesnt charge in the other car then its the battery if it does its probably the alternator. When you broke down did it slowely lose power or just stop dead and did you lights go out slowly or just dead. If it just went dead i would reckon main fuse failure.
181

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 13:20:45
Oh dear, look at that see of read. I see the SNP have been giving it large again.

Seems to me that consolodating military policy in a single body, naturally Westminster, is a sensible thing to do.

Alex Salmond unwsiely chose ot make a fuss about the trident missile system being based in Scotland. He is on the record as saying he would go against any legitimate decision to try and weaken the UK's defence system. It is only correct that the central UK government take the ability for upstarts like that to reek havoc.
182

karinxx,

24/02/2008 13:21:08
The scottish parliament not just he snp have voted not to have nucleur weapons in scotland. This is against the will of the scottish people our representatives have spoken.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6752089.stm
183

karinxx,

24/02/2008 13:22:40
203 so marvin you think your unionist friends are also wrong about this do you.
184

John D.McCallum,

Huddersfield 24/02/2008 13:32:27
To the poster that thinks that Generals have a say in the placement of Submarine based Missiles I think the Admirals would tell them in no uncertain terms where to put it,and as for an oath of allegance shove it.
185

morris,

edinburgh 24/02/2008 13:42:33
190 If the alternator works then the lights will be slightly brighter when you rev the engine,(but you need to run the battery down enough to see a difference of course). If you can establish that the alternator is functional(ie the lights are brighter when revs are higher) this way,then your battery is the obvious culprit,and you should try charging that using a mains charger.Next door probably has one if you dont.If the battery is still not functional theres your problem .A new battery is needed.If it makes no difference almost certainly the battery is goosed.

This should work.Of course if your alternator is okay and your battery also,your battery will be charged up anyway,and you need to run it down before you can see a difference probably.That is obviously not the case.One of the two has seen better days.

You should be able to eliminate the alternator by trying this If its okay the battery probably is finished. If the battery charges up off mains however and the alternator is okay its a wiring fault/short circuit which prevents the system working as it should,and thats a garage job for most people.This is unlikley since the brighter luminance when revving would almost certainly not happen.
I hope that makes some sense ?
186

Carlung,

Haddington 24/02/2008 13:46:41
The Scottish Sunday Express can reveal a number of communities have held discussions to follow Berwick’s lead and investigate the possibility of moving into Scottish jurisdiction.
Among those keen to reap the benefits of living on the other side of the Border is the hamlet of Kielder, which boasts the title of “England’s most tranquil village”. Residents in the village of Byrness, just five miles inside England, are also desperate to have access to Scotland’s health and education systems.

The SNP must be doing something right!
187

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 13:57:07
195
If the worst comes to the worst, just call a taxi,name of Martin.
188

morris,

edinburgh 24/02/2008 14:05:04
208 Carlung

I am amazed by this ! I spent a lot of Saturdays in Berwick over many years now ,and have had relatives in Coldstream and Eyemouth and Wooler,and have friends around Kelso. I have never ever witnessed any sense of Scottish identity and these are people I know inside out.It must as you say be a recent phenomenon because it certainly did NOT exist to any significant degree before devolution,and I still cannot believe it exists now.
One thing that did surprise me was that First Scottish bus fleet which were never particularly good in my opinion but were unbelievably better than those of "Northumbrian", some of which could hardly go down hills never mind up them!
Even the English banks don't venture further north than Newcastle in most cases.You will never be refused a Scottish bank note in WOOLER ! The only bank for miles around is Scottish and Berwick seems to be much the same.

I did however notice that my only relative who was born in England (Berwick) hated being the odd one out and told me so when she was around 18 and found it of significance that she was so close to the border,but wanted to be born on the other (Eyemouth)side! She was happy to live in Wooler but could not handle being born in Berwick ! Weird but true.
189

karinxx,

24/02/2008 14:05:14
ah but meths its always really hard to see if the lights get brighter during the day unless your in somewhere dark. Ive tried that before. Although charging the battery from mains is a good idea morris.
I have had a few cars where this has happened to me. I once had a ford escort (horrible cars) that just used to die completely then wouldnt start and you would go back half an hour later and it would start it was crazy. I never did figure out what was wrong with it as it was an old banger.
190

karinxx,

24/02/2008 14:08:34
anyway what are we going to do about broons wee plan to steal our parliaments powers. I think broon is going to suggest another referendum that offers minimum powers for taking back more powers. Hoping to con the electorate. Then if people dont vote for it he says see no one wants any more powers.
191

karinxx,

24/02/2008 14:10:06
annabel goldie is right we need an independently chaired commission.
192

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 14:23:13
Karinxx and morris

thanks for the advice best i go the garage as i am not very good with cars.......
I'll make a note 'Nationalists' can be nice too......
193

morris,

edinburgh 24/02/2008 14:23:36
212

Off topic(again) but that sounds like a battery with very little in it, and it provides some power and is quickly exhausted,when starting, but left alone for a while recovers.Thats typical behaviour of a battery which cannot hold the charge and should have been replaced(but it could carry on for years like that since the alternator is actually working) A good place would be a domestic garage without any lights other than the cars switched on to test the alternator by revving as you say.

If its peculiar to this time of year, it could be simply that you drive in darkness ONLY but not much during the daylight hours.In summer its okay ! The battery is always lower seasonally therefore. A wee lunch time spin should prove interesting. If everything is working as it should, then at 5pm the lights/ battery will be okay.Its been charged up again ie
The starting motor drains a lot out of a battery of course. In winter a good plan is rev the engine before switching the lights on and give it a wee charge for a few minutes plus the car heats up of course.

A bit late now though eh !Sorry by the way.
194

karinxx,

24/02/2008 14:29:07
I was reading the other day that labour MPs where all getting rid of their pagers because they were all informed by text message now what the latest "on message" response should be. Are we to assume then that either adam ingram has a broken mobile phone or this comes from gordon brown. I think this is the latter. We have seen the way he gets his MPs to prepare scripted questions in the house so he can look good. So i take it this order to speak about this came from him.
195

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 24/02/2008 14:30:23
Beware.

By the time the Commission/Review body/Working Party/Whatever reports, we'll be into the next term of UK Government. That will most likely be Tory, and they WILL claw back powers with the support of Scottish Labour MPs.

Marvin 203...

If the majority of folks in England want to retain Trident, and the majority in Scotland don't, I'm sure English planners won't block a relocation to a strategic place on the English coastline.

A change in Legislation to determine who has the final say on planning in Scotland would be an even bigger political disaster for the Labour Party in Scotland.
196

karinxx,

24/02/2008 14:37:24
Well here we see what type of man mr ingram is.


Minister fails to stop Galloway sectarian claim

JOHN ROBERTSON LAW CORRESPONDENT
ADAM Ingram, the armed forces minister, failed yesterday in a legal action to stop publication of a book by George Galloway MP in which Mr Ingram is accused of playing the flute in a "sectarian" band in his youth.
The minister tried to obtain an interim interdict against Penguin Books, claiming that an allegation about his involvement in an Orange Order "kick the pope" band was false and defamatory.

However, a judge at the Court of Session ruled that Penguin had an argument that adjectives applied by Mr Galloway to the band, such as "anti-Catholic" and "protestant-supremacist", were fair comment.


http://news.scotsman.com/georgegalloway/Minister-fails-to-stop-Galloway.2523915.jp
197

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 14:56:47
Andrew BOD 219

Give England all the risks and hassle of Trident but still reap the protection here in Scotland?

Selfish cowardly statement.

It seems some of us Scots are like-minded with some of the worst of the English. Both sides of the border trying to dump stuff in the other's half.

I think when there is good reason to have something somewhere then that decision by the UK should be adhered to, like it or lump it. Glasgow and the clyde have historically and still do have some of the best marine engineering skills in the UK. That is reason enough for me.

I sympathise with Nuclear power argument more. But...

We base it in Scotland due to where the winds are. In the event of a wee bang the winds would blow the debree (most of it) across to Ireland.

The French base theirs at the northe west of France so it blows across to England. So you see, they are only based where they do the least damage to the UK. If we moved them to England and it went bang, ironically we'd probably be worse in Scotland as it all blows up here.
198

Lady Muck,

24/02/2008 15:12:01
Trident doesn't protect us and the people don't want it. The majority of Scottish MP's and MSP's voted agaist replacing Trident, so who are you to try and subvert democracy ?
199

karinxx,

24/02/2008 15:12:19
221 marvin the mindless

which part of the statement the scottihs parliemant voted against trident and nucleur power stations in scotland dont you understand. Which marine engineering skills are you talking about. The ones that no longer exist since the shipyards were shut down. Do you even have any idea of where the subs are.
As for in the possiblity of a wee band the debris would be blown to ireland. Im sorry did they agree to the ashes of what will remain of scotland ie nothing landing on them. Also does the uk parliament now control the weather was that not devolved to scotland.

oooh sorry i missed that.

grow up child.
200

Carlung,

Haddington 24/02/2008 15:13:57
211 morris

Another weird thing that happens near the Scotland/England border, is that, according to a local delivery lorry driver, when he drives north over the Carter Bar he notices beside the huge rock that says" Welcome to Scotland", there are always tourists etc posing for photographs beside this sign. However on his south bound journey he has yet to see anyone being photographed at the "Welcome to England"sign!
201

karinxx,

24/02/2008 15:14:58
i assume then marvin the martian that you also think its allright for young people to go out with knives for their protection as they have no intention of using them cos its just a deterant.
202

karinxx,

24/02/2008 15:24:15
Richard thats got to be the dumbest excuse i have heard yet for nucleur weapons.
203

karinxx,

24/02/2008 15:24:37
i cant beleive marving the martian just came out with that
204

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 15:41:33
226 Richard

Your tone suggest you disagree with me. But your rationale suggests you do agree with me.

You would make Scotland safer by moving the Nuclear facilities to a location in England where the prevailing wind would blow the fall out into the mass of the Scottish population.

Um....

225 Karinxx

What I object to is an agressive mentality. Your logic doesn't integrate that into your rather simplistic equation.

205

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 15:43:26
223 Karinxx

Weather patterns are fairly predictable and constent and are in fact used in planning the location of Nuclear facilities. That is a fact.

Although the love of legislating by today's political elite (reads the goons from The SNP/Labour) you'd think they do actually believe they can legisalte to change the wind.
206

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 24/02/2008 15:43:33
221 Marvin says:

"Give England all the risks and hassle of Trident but still reap the protection here in Scotland?"

We don't want to reap the so-called protection. It makes us more of a target and encourages nuclear proliferation.

Marvin also says:
"We base it in Scotland due to where the winds are. In the event of a wee bang the winds would blow the debree (most of it) across to Ireland."

Would that be SW to Northern Ireland - part of the UK?

Marvin even says:
" If we moved them to England and it went bang, ironically we'd probably be worse in Scotland as it all blows up here."

And that would be North.

Marvin, if you didn't know, the prevailing winds are westerly. So pardon the pun, but that blows your whole argument out of the water.


"
207

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 15:50:01
229. MtM

surely, in the event of a catastrophic accident, the further away the nuclear installation, the safer (the winds don't tend to blow from south to north across Scotland anyway).

Scotland does not want nor need WMD - the funding of these could be spent on vulnerable two year olds, if this were actually a unionist priority....
208

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 15:51:40
231 Andrew BOD

Where are you getting this crap from?

Did someone in the pub tell you about planning of Nuclear power stations?
209

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 15:57:01
233. Weird, if the prevailing winds were a major factor in siting of nuclear installations, why are they dotted all over the place, west and east coast? Surely either Hunterston or Torness is in the wrong place by your logic - or do the winds blow in opposite directions between Torness and Hunterston, Hunterston and Sellfield and Faslane ? Or perhaps you are talking gibberish?
210

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 15:57:43
234 You assume he las left school. A big assumption reading his inane and vapid output...
211

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 15:58:17
237. He would need to wait for prevailing winds in a Mars direction to facilitate to lift-off I assume....
212

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:01:00
234 Richard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/17/ireland.nuclearpower

There you go my friend. Seems the whole world and his dog knows the score, apart from you.

Pay attention now, there may be questions later. You can impress your SNP friends with this new knowledge maybe? Pretend for the first time in your life you are well informed.
213

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 16:01:59
A couple of observations for Marvin.

The wind which blows across my back garden is mainly from the west.

Anytime I've been on a plane to Amsterdam or a ferry to Bruges the return (northwards) takes longer.

A third point would be that anyone considering a nuclear on anywhere in UK, or France, would probably only be considering the political wind.
214

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:02:31
238 Ayrshire Scot

Seems the SNP get their information from each other. It's like chiese whispers in your camp. Someone makes something up to paper over the cracks in your knowledge and then the rest take it is as fact.
215

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:03:15
242 Jock Tamson

Did you just make that up?
216

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:04:04
242 Jock Tamson

"Where shall we base the new NUclear Power"

"What is the worst case Scenario/defects"

"Hold on, I'll phone Jock and see how the wind blows in his garden."
217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:06:16
241, MtM

your point about Scotland being less safe if nucelar weapons were removed to England was rubbish - of course Scotland would be safer. Same for discontinuation of nuclear power generation when the current stations reach the end of their life-span.

Guff about non-existant northward winds from England in the event of a nuclear catastrophe is hadrly an sound argument (if there were an accident then having the WMD at Faslane would of course be far worse for central scotland) nor does it address the immoral use of revenues on WMDs in place of more constructive use of £40bn.
218

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:07:20
243 Or just put them in Scotland like a true Westminster stooge?
219

Queen D,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 16:11:33
How come this has turned into a nuclear weapons/north wind/westwind argument?
We've had them long enough on our doorstep, we don't want them any more , its someone elses turn to have the dreadful things IF they want them, however I can't see a lot of people in England ,Wales or Northen Ireland jumping with joy at the thought of them near they're back garden.
220

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:16:33
247 Queen D

it involves nuclear weapons/ plants as Westminster MPs are complaining about the SNP putting Scotland first and using the current devolved powers to block new nuclear WMD or power stations in Scotland - Westminster Labour MPs now want these powers removed back to Westminster so Scotland can continue to serve as the UK's nuclear dust-bin (presumbably Trident WMDs are part of Labour's prioirity care and spending committments for vulnerable 2 year olds).
221

Jimmy the Pie,

24/02/2008 16:20:23
I see Alistair Carmichael, Libdum MSP for Orkney has said that devolution is the first step towards 'Home rule' and said that his party had always supported home rule and more powers for the Scottish Government. He laughed off suggestions that Comrade Broon would take back powers from Holyrood. The tide is definitely turning in our favour. With New Labour Sleaze and Corruption in self destruct mode the time will be soon.
Independence - you all know it makes good sense.
222

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:26:05
249 Richard

Yes, but you see the point. The UK places its facilities to minimise all damage to UK. Stuff the Irish.

The French place theres to minimise damage to France and stuff the English.

Regarding the winds, if you did some meaningful enquiries you'd find I am quite correct.

I don't think your thick for not knowing by the way. Knowledge is not a function of intelligence. You're just ignorant.
223

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:26:53
249 Maybe Marvin thought the "Windscale" was a numerical planning tool used for placing nuclear power stations?
224

Carlung,

Haddington 24/02/2008 16:29:29
250 Jimmy T/P

Independence - you all know it makes good sense.

Quite right! We want INDEPENDENCE not "In dependence".
225

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:30:59
The wind blows to the North East in Jock's garden.

So move torness so that if it goes bang rather than blow the crap out to sea, it will now be in Newcastle so it blows all the crap over highly populated areas.

Clever chaps!

Why not dump all nuclear and live by candle light? We can scrap the missiles too and join hands and sing koom-bi-ya m' lord, oh lord koom-bi-ya.
226

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:34:23
255. What lies North East of Newcastle? Are you in possession of an atlas Marvin old chestnut?
227

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:35:03
255 WHy do we need nuclear missiles Marvin?
228

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:37:29
252 Ayrshire Scot

Do you think that the winds aren't used when placing a Nuclear plant? Or that a worse case scenario isn't predicted?

You seem to me to be an ignorant smarty-pants who knows little-to-nothing about the subject.

If you want to ridicule me then please only do so when I'm wrong.

Anyway, enough of this. Seems you prefer to troll rather than discuss why having UK nuclear is probably safer for us in Scotland than just outside Scotland to the south.

You are fools. Really! In your model of how the England and Scotland would work, we would be like Ireland, have all the risks of nuclear and none of the power.
229

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:39:46
259 Why would nuclear missile removed from Scotland be placed just to the south of Scotland - would prevailing winds not need to be taken into account lol (and there are no prevailing winds that blow North from the Border....)

You argument that nuclear installations are prone to accident, and therefore the closer to them we are the better, is rather odd.

You grasp of geography and prevailing winds is rather odd too.


230

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:42:07
258 Ayrshire Scot

I understand the trident replacement is the cost of submarines not missiles.

The UK is a bunch of islands, military supremacy in the seas is a must. Our lads in the Navy serve us proud. Take a trip to the Falklands and you'll get your answer there about the importance of Naval fire power.

Do you think the Islanders in the Falklands do not have a right of self-determination? They do, and only because of our Navy.
231

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:45:07
260 Ayrshire Scot

You are proving yourself to be an ignorant smarty-pants. Find out the location of the UK's nuclear stations and then note there location in relation to winds. Draw this data on a wee map, there's a good lad, you'll notice that they have something in common!

As regard the location of trident. It's to prevent easy attack in the event of a war. It's in a remote sea loch used since WW2.

Anyway, I have proven beyond doubt I know the score.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to offer you alernative understanding of why these locations within the UK have been chosen?

232

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 16:48:47
263 So it would seem.
233

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 16:50:55
263 Richard

That's correct. As I know do you SNP smarty-pants, that's why I chose to bring up the Falklands.

Try removing UK naval fire power from the 1980s and you'll learn something about what factors are required to have self-determination.

Then do the same in the 40s and so forth going back. You should be able to notice a trend.

Scotland can only determine its own fate with a military in the long-term. Harsh reality I'm afraid.

234

karinxx,

24/02/2008 16:55:05
marvin the only wind you should be worrying about is the one blowing between your ears.

an ignorant smarty pants. eh?

How can you be smart and ignorant at the same time.
235

karinxx,

24/02/2008 16:57:08
266 which part of the military do the nucleur weapons belong to then marvin. Where nucleur weapons fired in the falklands darn i missed that too.

along with westminster having control of the weather
236

karinxx,

24/02/2008 16:59:58
do you think if i ask gordon broon can we have sun for the second two weeks in july he could manage that marvin. its just im going on holiday up north then. and if they could turn the wind and rain off for those two weeks that would be great.
237

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 17:00:51
268 Mthalions

Another ignorant smarty-pants.

The story is about whether Scotland has the right to reject nuclear power. A natural question is therefore would we better or worse without it within our borders?

We can accept as givens that England would still have its sovereign right to place these stations within its borders. Due to our close proximity with teh North of England, where they would most likely be placed, it may happen Scotland is put more at risk in that scenario.

Nuclear power should be about maximum safety not about cheap point scoring.

Just because you can't understand an issue, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Please try with Ayrshire to offer a different perspective.

But my guess is you won't. You are a child in a man's body, learned how to talk, learned how to be cheeky but lack the grace and sphistication to do so within context of a debate.
238

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:06:42
marvin lets get this straight

1. you dont beleive in democracy. This is obvious from the fact that you are ignoring the fact that the "scottish parliament" i repeat parliament NOT THE SNP voted against nucleur.

2. If you dont beleive in democracy we can now understand why you beleive dictator brown should have carte blanche to do what he likes in scotland

can i suggest you go buy the idiots guide to democracy

you sorely need it.
239

dido-bendigo,

Argyll 24/02/2008 17:06:50
What a load of Cod's wallop! Chernoble fallout arrived on the Welsh mountains after the accident. Do you really think it circled the globe to get there? Close Hollyrood and Westminster down. Move the British Parliament to Berwick on Tweed and give us some peace and quiet! Ms Goldie for PM, Yes Please!
240

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:08:10
marvin and another thing the scottish people are soveriegn not the uk parliament.
241

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 17:10:56
Marvin,

The wind which blows through my garden most of the time would not be carrying anything harmful from a nuclear power station - it would be carrying something harmful from a nuclear attack on, or accidental explosion from, Faslane. Get it?

Also, the mighty naval fire power you advocate is based on seaborne landings (invading from the sea) and not coastal defence. The only reason the Falklands is important is because it is a landmass which faces Antarctica. The southern tip of Chile obscures Argentina from such a phenomenon. Indeed I do believe that Argentina tried it out on Chile before deciding on the Malvinas as the next best option. This, of course, for the right to a share in the mineral wealth below the frozen wastes.

242

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 17:11:14
Marvin.
So a nuclear strike on Faslane would do us(Scotland) less damage than a nuclear strike on London.

Hmm.
243

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 17:16:56
On topic,

I reckon Salmond has played this well. He was the one who stated that he would use the planning system to block a new generation of nuclear power plants which we don't need but England does.

So what does Broon do? Spits the dummy. Not only does it make him look foolish up here, it makes wee Wendy look foolish too by going to Broon in the first place.
244

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:17:05
281. Its an ill Martian who blows no sense....
245

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 17:18:26
280 Jock Tamson

Right? Our submarines didn't follow the invading Argetinian fleet and sink them?

I appreciate you get your world knowledge from each other based on teenage assumptions, but please try harder.

You have little understanding of the world in which we live, that much is obvious.

Your argument seems to be Submarines are bad and have never been used to win wars.

Self-determination is a god given right and never needs defending from hostile foreigners invading by force.

And that Nuclear power should be based in the UK according to ? - well you've not given a reason - and not based on safety.

Wierd people.
246

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:20:01
285. I think they sank one Argentinian ship.... what has this to do with Trident nuclear missiles?

247

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 17:20:15
In fact Wendy would be perfect as Oliver Twist asking for more. MORE?
248

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 17:22:25
Alex Salmond and co in the SNP prey on your naivety and lack of capacity for accepting and understanding complicated logistical and technical problems facing our civilisation.

There is no good or bad, there is just shades of grey. Everyone wants to live in you immature, simplistic and idealised fairy land where need not defend ourselves or power technologies.

Salmond is just picking a fight backed up by the ignorant vote. I think its good that essential UK policy is decided on by the UK.

The Scottish parliament is there for local issues only if it lacks the professionalism and maturity to co-operate.
249

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:23:01
285 If self determination is god given, does it apply to atheists?

You miss the point - Scotland does not want or need nuclear power or obscene nuclear WMD.
250

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 17:23:39
287 Ayrshire Scot

For the second time my uninformed friend.

The "trident missiles" are not being replaced, it's the "trident system" that is. And that means we are buying submarines not missiles.

251

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:27:17
291. I think you will find the warheads and the missiles are being replaced (they all getting a bit old) - and new subs to carry them all..... and new docks required for the new subs, which the Scottish Gov will not give planning permission for,,,,and maybe other modifications to the base and road access which the Scottish government will not give planning permission for
252

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 17:28:44
In the early summer of '86, I was in charge of a wee Job Creation scheme.Teaching landscape gardening to the many victims of Thatcherism.
Part of it entailed putting down weedkiller, and the council made sure we were safe doing so.
That entailed full body chemical protection suits, and a backpack spray.
There had been a Sunday paper "expose" on fallout over Scotland the day before.
I'll always remember the look of horror on the face of this old biddy as all these "cybermen" came out of the van.
Classic.
253

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 17:30:50
287, Ayreshire. The point was that the Martian was including Trident in a combined package of the requirement to have a big, important navy. These tend to be a requirement for countries with big, important ideas.
254

Marvin the Martian,

24/02/2008 17:33:18
294 Conan the librarian

I see there are many ignorant smarty-pants out today.

Its not my responsibility to provide the answer you want.

But in today's debate, I am sticking to my guns....

Q Explain why the right to self determination was not extended to the Chagossians? Report Unsuitable

A Because they lacked the capability to fight back.

Comprende? I think if they had a hidden bus with assured capability to knock out Edin/London/Oxford/Brimingham etc. history might have recorded a different choice of location for a military base.
255

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:33:53
291 for the fecking last time "we" scotland are not. we scotland voted against it.
256

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:34:20
296. I see. I thought he was saying that the new Trident did not include modifications/ upgrades etc to the missiles to extend their life?

In any case, it all boils down to the fact we don't want or require these weapons in Scotland.

And indeed, I think the Trident programme is based on pretensions of a very small military power trying to cling to a declining status, when the big questions facing humanity are not about spending on new WMD...
257

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 17:34:21
296
And PMs with small torpedoes.
258

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:35:30
298 marvin we scotland have the missiles at the moment and it doesnt make a fecking bit of difference that we say we dont want them they are still here. So how does having nucleur weapons give you greater power.
259

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:41:42
303 Need to take account of prevailing winds and currents mind....
260

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:42:18
marvin every argument you put up has been blown out of the water today. so be a good boy and go play with your dolly now.
261

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:43:18
305 chocolate or yogurt covered?
262

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 17:44:01
300, Ayrshire.

The comment was in regard to 266

Bt the way which Ayrshire are you?

Did you see the Aýrshire?
263

karinxx,

24/02/2008 17:44:52
Labour are now making the same mistakes the tories made before they lost office. its quite amusing to watch it happening again.
264

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:45:08
307. just plain. perhaps in a scone
265

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:46:37
309. I am the real Ayrshire. Yeah, I saw one of many fakies....
266

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:49:02
315. The Shadow of the Wind? Gone with the Wind? The Wind in the Willows?
267

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 17:56:41
Eh, Methalions, 313? Could you read that post again and correct it?
268

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 17:57:55
319. He was using Marvin's guide the the four winds I think....
269

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 18:15:04
320, Ayrshire. Did you ever notice that wind speed and direction can be different at different altitudes?

Look at the clouds and they are travelling differently to the wind that is affecting humans. Not Marvin. He's up there somewhere with his head in the clouds which explains his rationale.
270

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 18:16:44
322. Jock. I have noticed that. In fact, I think it is a well known fact.
271

Miss Jean Brodie,

24/02/2008 18:21:58
Next they’ll be banning the wearing o the plaid - replacing people with sheep and shipping children abroad in slavery !

Time to call a gathering at the Earl o Mar’s punch bowl and get it right this time I fear !
272

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 18:22:24
326. Some factions belief it it is in fact factual.
273

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 18:29:15
Bicarbonate of soda.Thats good for wind.
274

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 18:30:54
333. The North Wind prefers washing soda I heard.
275

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 18:34:13
333
Wejvatlh wejmaH wej:Qapla'

;-)
276

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 18:35:57
324, Methalions.

"The main wind in New York blows from east to west. Factory smoke therefore blows eastwards. Because it is dirtier in the east,.."

Fear not, I got your drift. Must confess never to having thought about it before.

The different winds at different altitudes does make nuclear fall out very unpredictable though.

Welsh lamb was contaminated by Chernobyl and yet it is on the west coast where you would have expected the Atlantic wind to have protected it.

Hmmm?
277

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 18:43:50
341
Its the rainfall Jock.
278

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 18:46:36
342 I thought the lambs had perhaps been travelling widely?
279

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 24/02/2008 18:51:41
342, Conan.

Appreciated but how did the clouds get there from the east?

I can only surmise that all was quiet on the western front when it happened.

Anyway, the Martian certainly gave for thought. On the subject of food, I'm away for some and I shall eat it in front of last night's CSI NY.

Strange that. I know Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young but have no idea who the I is.
280

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 18:53:30
343
Russian immigrants for the Welsh sex industry perhaps?
281

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 20:10:08
"UK MINISTERS and business chiefs are calling for Alex Salmond to be stripped of his ability to block nuclear power stations and Trident warheads in Scotland, as part of a major review of Holyrood's powers"

SNEAKY!!! and cheeky!!!! Amongst other things!!!!

No more nuclear in Scotland wither it be weapons or power, most Scots are against it.

If they do this sucessfuly, I predict a riot!!!!!
282

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 20:18:27
"no devolved government should be able to defy London's will."

The will of London is appearing more and more like the enemy of Scotland with every week that passes!!!

Roll on Scottish Independence!

P.S. I heard that Sean Connery was on his way back to Scotland!!!
283

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 20:22:24
"The calls were led by Defence Minister Adam Ingram, the MP for East Kilbride"

Oh dear might of known it was Adam "useless MP" Ingram that was behind this ridicules story.

Adam "useless MP" Ingram, why doesn't he concentrate in fixing EK, the towns a complete mess because of him and his Labour pals.
284

HEN BROON 5,

24/02/2008 20:57:55
Good God what a tired bunch of utterly thick jingoistic numpties are left now in the unionist gang hut. I tried to imagine what it must be like from their point of view, but I just could not get my head far enough up my jacksy.
When it is down to flute playing orange bigots such as the woefully turgid Ingram to defend the empire then it is just more good news for the SNP. What a bitter and twisted oaf he is. He has the people skills of a orang utan with a thorn in it's ars. Another example od an over promoted shop steward buffoon who thinks he can shout every one down because he is one of the Lanarkshire mafia, well Ingram guess what you are on your way out. You could not hack it as a defence minister and you are a krap MP. Your glittering career is evidence of the depth of the talent pool at Nieu Liebour, if you can make it to minister level then the stories about monkeys with red rosettes are true.
The CBI needs to have a careful think about where their leader is taking them also
285

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 21:09:20
350. Hen Broon

I feel I must, in fairness, point out that Adam Ingram MP sued over a description of him being an orange band flute player in a protestant supremacist and secatarian organisation.

In fairness I must also point out that a judge ruled against him and ruled the description was accurate.
286

IainGlasgow,

24/02/2008 21:09:34
"UK MINISTERS and business chiefs are calling for Alex Salmond to be stripped of his ability to block nuclear power stations and Trident warheads in Scotland, as part of a major review of Holyrood's powers."


Let me get it right the system works like this?:

We elect a government that will ensure we don't have a second nuclear age forced upon us so a hugher power decides our government (and by definition us, the electorate that put that government into power as well) has to be stripped of the ability and right to make that decision.

Great to see democracy in action.

Let me tell you this London quislings! I voted for this SNP administration on the premise it would prevent more nuclear power in this country. If you take away that power then you will have to send me to prison for not paying tax, which being self employed, I have the means to do and I urge anyone else who is opposed to nuclear power to do likewise!
287

karinxx,

24/02/2008 21:22:24
yes as you said iain democracy in action its great innit. not.

The only way round this is for the whole of scotland to turn to the snp and vote for complete seperation of the parliaments.
288

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 21:34:37
#348 Eve,

P.S. I heard that Sean Connery was on his way back to Scotland!!!

But not if he has to pay any tax............

353

yes that would be a constitutional and legal action.........Much like Westminster being the supreme legislator for the U.K. at the present time..........
289

I'mallymax,

Orwell's front door; just checking. 24/02/2008 21:35:40
Whatever, Bean-Broon; too feckin late now. It's independence for Scotland, Weh hey the lads ...
290

karinxx,

24/02/2008 21:40:17
niko did you get your car fixed
291

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 21:44:18
#356

no going to put into garage........Meanwhile taking a sicky tonight.............it does start up but battery charge is low...........
292

,

24/02/2008 21:45:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
293

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 21:48:53
354. "supreme legislator" - sounds a layered dessert or a porno film?

Taking a sicky tonight?
294

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 21:54:18
#359

perk of the job...proper nu-labour me........."supreme legislator" apart from the e.u
295

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 21:54:28
Yes, where is AM2?

Another sicky?
296

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 21:55:14
#354 Nikostratos: Well thats understandble considering he's all ready paying them!! Why should he pay them twice (double!!)

The artcle read that he was coming home because the prospects of Scottish independence were more real than ever before.

297

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 21:56:06
#359

Strike that......not nu-labour.......more old labour. going extinct
298

Eve,

24/02/2008 21:57:20
#361 Conan the Librarian™,: On the McGinness story, or they were earlier!!
299

karinxx,

24/02/2008 21:58:06
who is old labour niko? You?
300

IainGlasgow,

24/02/2008 21:58:32
Anyone know if there's been any opinion polls published recently? Not seen any for a couple of months, prospects must be really bleak for Emperor Brown and his loyal stormtroopers.
301

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 21:58:55
364
Should have known;-)
302

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 21:59:06
#362 eve

nobody would expect him to pay tax twice that would be mad....once is suffice anyway he is not coming back he likes the warm weather...........
303

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 22:02:46
#365


from way back..........been in many a industrial action........one out all out ah! the good old days
304

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:05:38
niko what do unions belevie in?
305

Eve,

Scotland bonnie Scotland 24/02/2008 22:06:02
368 Nikostratos,: Ever considered the guy might like Salomond more!!!

Warm weather is over rated!!! You can thank golbal warming for that!!!
306

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:06:29
369. The Chartists, the Tollpuddle martyrs, Niko was in there, them were the days.... (his dodgy hips prevents his active involvement these days)
307

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:06:39
368
Better golf here Niko.

And he can get hish lishp fixshed free.
308

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 22:07:18
#370 karinxx: Excellent question!!!
309

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:08:34
366. Labour got a mighty 3% in the council by-election in Perth last week.

310

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:09:57
372
So thats what he was in court for.

http://crowncourt.legaltv.co.uk/images/bh.jpg
311

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:10:09
niko i have thought about this a lot and i have come to the conclusion that in a capitalist society the one thing that can make a difference in the power of the pennnys. I have been thinking about his whole funding of political parties. Say for example that union members voted for who they wanted their money to go to then poltical parties would be more inclined to listen to the unions. Although thats not to say that unions should buy favour it should be more the poltical parties make a case in their manifesto of what they want to do for workers.
312

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:13:19
377. The power of the what? "pennnys"

Hmmm, hats off and upstanding!
313

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:14:55
378 you know what i mean. n at.
314

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:15:02
377
That was what the political levy was meant to achieve Karin.The Labour Party WAS meant to be the party of the people...
315

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:15:33
well it wid sort out all this funding nonsense.
316

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:15:58
380. Now it is the party of the pennnys.
317

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:16:14
380 well they aint any more so we should get to choose who gets da dosh.
318

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:17:03
take back some of that there control to ra people..
319

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:18:29
ooh imagine the tories having to suck up to the workers how much fun would that be.
320

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:19:07
382 are you taking the p
321

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:19:43
382
Foulkes holding "elections" again eh?
322

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:20:12
386 i say they are very welcome to join scotland and become scottish if they want. Problem is i dont think gordon is gonna let them.
323

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:20:57
389. Does this mean Kendal mint-cake all round?
324

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:21:04
382 oh no that was wendy having the p.
325

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:21:47
385
LOL
326

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:21:51
you know if alex and the snp stood candidates there do you think they would win then if everyone wants to be scottish?
327

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:22:51
maybe alex should might get some more seats at westminster make a nice wee hung parliament.
328

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 22:25:25
#371 #373

the sunny Bahamas or soggy Scotland...I'll have to think about that one.


#377
I pay the political levy and for that the labour government stitch me up
329

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 22:25:59
#386 Col. Blimp IV*: It's suppose to be about 5miles!!!

From what I read they are NOT of the opinion that they will be missed if they where to re draw the border.
The thing is I don't have clue how much truth was in the story.

BUT the Sunday express certainty gave me a wee chuckle when I saw there cartoon. (can't believe I was that bored the day that I read the Sunday express, oh well)
330

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:27:12
394
I thought Gordon prefered a well hung parliament?
331

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 22:27:23
Conan..........Whats best in life?
332

Eve,

Scotland 24/02/2008 22:29:30
Night night
333

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:30:54
400
Crush your Enemies, Niko;-)
334

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:31:41
400 what dya mean?

401 night eve
335

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:32:03
Night Eve
336

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:32:20
mm no make friends with them conan.
337

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:33:25
403
A quote I believe Karin.Niko may prove me wrong.
338

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:34:31
ahh me see where is the quote? im confused AGAIN.
339

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:35:36
niko

a car that works ;)
340

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:36:48
408 grannies know best dont do it again. although i bought it one day havent done it since (hangs head in shame)
341

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:37:33
niko are ye no gonnae tell us the rest a that.
342

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:40:17
407
From "Conan the Barbarian", Conan is asked that question.It originally was attributed to Genghis Khan.

By Nikos silence, I think I was right.
343

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:42:38
i just buy whichever one has the least anti snp story on the front or second page.
344

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:43:23
408
I had a Great Grannie like that:-)
345

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:43:24
412 ah me see said blind man to deaf wife.
346

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:45:31
Alex Salmond look out!

Just noticed this on the bbcs news site, had to share it!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7261888.stm

347

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 22:45:37
#402


"kill your enemies and here the lamentations of their women and children"

And with that thought i bid you goodnight
348

Nikostratos,

24/02/2008 22:47:44
#417

that could be me..My wife agrees......sad story though'

final good night
349

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:49:37
Yes Niko its a sad one.

I see Pakistan got YouTube shut down tonight.

Unbelievable.
350

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:49:49
419 hmm goodnight
351

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 22:51:55
Karinxx standing starkers in front of the mirror says to her husband -

I look horrible, Fat and Ugly... PAY ME A COMPLIMENT!!!

Husband replies - Your eyesight's spot on!!!
352

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 22:52:35
Niko, I was a shop steward in the eighties, and I even voted Labour.I changed.You can too.Night.
353

karinxx,

24/02/2008 22:59:26
422 and?

is that it.

nah sorry troll not playing.

354

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:01:01
conan whats the difference between a shop steward and a union rep do they do different things.
355

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:04:43
Aýrshire Scot™ looks into the mirror...and sees only despair and bitterness.

But on the bright side, he decides to spread it around.
356

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:06:53
425
Karin its from the olden days.Cloth capped workers had a shop steward, white collared workers had a union rep.
357

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:08:10
ah i see. so everyone is just union rep now.
358

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 23:11:18
Conan went to London and found himself in the Underground late one night.

Seeing a notice "DOGS MUST BE CARRIED ON THE ESCALATOR", he moaned to himself,

"And where am I going to find a dog at this hour of the night? I know, I will phone Karinxx"
359

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:13:22
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/scotland-dies-laughing-20071121549/
360

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:15:53
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines
361

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:18:05
conan do you get the feeling that troll has been here before.
362

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:18:36
col ah
363

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:19:59
429
You are really bad at this aren't you?

An original moniker and comments which are not taken off rather poor "humour" sites help.

Are you from Bridgend?
364

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:23:14
433
So many times Karin.
There is one of the Ayrshire clones that is quite intelligent, and all the more poisonous for that.

But I don't think it is this one.
365

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:23:48
conan i know a failed troll how bad is that.

I mean a failed troll.
366

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:25:05
and whats even worse he is a fake of a fake. yep nothing says failure like a failed troll.

sad pitiful.
367

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:26:18
i mean how can you fail at being a troll its the easiest thing ever.
368

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:28:38
a five year old could do it. I cant beleive someone can fail at being a troll how much of a loser do you have to be to do that.
369

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:30:56
He seems to have beaten a retreat.

Piano bar anyone?
370

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 23:32:15
Remember Karin it is 'I' before 'E' except after 'C'.

Even a 5 year old knows that.

Its incredible to think how thick you must be to get it wrong ALL the time.
371

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 23:36:19
To simplify it even more for you

It means that, in words where i and e fall together, the order is ie, except directly following c, when it is ei. For example:

ie in words like siege, friend (you wont have any real ones)
ei in words like ceiling, receive

Compris?
372

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 23:37:31
Colonel Blimp please dont shop me to the moderator.

Have you any idea how much that scares me?
373

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:40:40
ayrshire fake

youve failed now

go drool on somebody else you maggotous puke snarfing virus with sheep dropping for brains.
374

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:41:44
443
And you are so intelligent eh?

Have you got your o grades yet?
375

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:48:03
fakey

i bet when you were up in court the judge said order when he looked at you and you said a cheeseburger and fries.
376

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:49:10
i bet you drink out the toilet dont you fakey.
377

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 23:50:31
Ah...doing your homework again.

Google? Wikipedia?

Boring.

Note to young unionists, don't copy Aýrshire Scot™ (He isn't very good:-)
378

karinxx,

24/02/2008 23:52:18
i bet fakey is so ugly he has to put a paper bag over his own head before maturbating.
379

,

25/02/2008 00:07:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
380

Aýrshire Scot™,

25/02/2008 00:10:09
448 I have a better degree than Kenny MacAskill.

Mind you he only has a 2:2 in law and he is our justice minister.

Makes you think (well maybe not Karin as she cant think).
381

Conan the Librarian™,

25/02/2008 00:11:53
455
All that was needed.

For you.
382

Conan the Librarian™,

25/02/2008 00:14:56
456
Well, this will be a pointless question.

Is your degree in Law?

Or something useful?
383

Aýrshire Scot™,

25/02/2008 00:18:51
Not in law no.

But yes something useful (Business/Economics).
384

Conan the Librarian™,

25/02/2008 00:21:33
Glasgow?
385

Conan the Librarian™,

25/02/2008 00:24:46
Or Edinburgh?
386

An Beal Bacht,

25/02/2008 04:04:21
Did this thread die a natural death?
387

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/02/2008 09:22:33
395 danielrober,
It's costing the UK tax payer £74 Billion (AT THE MOMENT) to decommission the UK nuclear power stations, coming to the end of their service life. I don't think that’s value for money.
As for Brown wanting to shaft the Scottish people even further, he is a traitor, no less.
388

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/02/2008 09:22:43
395 danielrober,
It's costing the UK tax payer £74 Billion (AT THE MOMENT) to decommission the UK nuclear power stations, coming to the end of their service life. I don't think that’s value for money.
As for Brown wanting to shaft the Scottish people even further, he is a traitor, no less.
389

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/02/2008 09:24:41
Ooops!
390

Sanny,

Glasgow 25/02/2008 12:11:38
I agree with most posters that Brown, or his party, has scored an ‘own goal’ with the threat to ‘claw-back’ powers from the devolved government of Scotland. It is without doubt a gift to the SNP that will be reflected in the real poll – the Election.

Leaving the effect on the Electorate to one side and all the various comments above, including the desperation posts from the Unionists, we should consider the wider picture. Before the Westminster interferes in any way it would be better they checked the effect of any proposed action on the Council of Europe. They need to remember the sanctions threat from the CoE that FORCED Tony Blair into the Scotland Act. If they now intend to back-track the CoE could enact those sanctions.

I find most people are not aware of the influence of the CoE in the creation of the devolved parliaments or the role of the Scotland-UN Committee. A visit to the Realm of Scotland website will surprise the many that are unaware of the background to devolution.
391

kimba,

25/02/2008 12:30:19
Salmond has only himself to blame,if he wasn't so intransigent Brown would not be cosidering this move now;whilst gordy is at it he may want to strip salmond of his powers!
392

Talorthane,

25/02/2008 13:12:06
The devolution referendum of September 1999 was on the question of whether the public wished to have the Scotland Act (1998) implemented.

This act identified that everything was devolved except those powers identified as reserved to Wesminster.

The nature of this "everything devolved except where it is specifically reserved" is what people voted for and approved.

This agreement allows for the transfer of more powers, as all Westminster needs to do is remove their "restricted" status.

However, any attempt to take back powers from Holyrood to Westminster, which were not identified as "restricted" in the original Scotland Act, is without authority. The Scottish public voted for these powers to be transferred to Holyrood, and for the principle that those powers not "restricted" would be Holyrood's responsibility.

The Scottish public did not give authority for a transfer of powers from Holyrood to Westminster, and any attempt to do so would require a separate referendum.
393

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 13:41:51
As soon as Brown mentioned return of powers I thought that this would be what he had in mind. He doesn't like what the Scottish Government is doing on nuclear issues so he says "we'll just take those powers back".

This shows that to guarantee future Scottish decisions over important Scottish issues we must vote for independence. Otherwise the unionists can fiddle the devolved settlement to remove any inconvenient issues where they think there might be disagreement, which undermines the whole point of having a devolved parliament in the first place.

This is definitely a case of see foot and open fire by GB but we should now be very wary of any attempts to re-open the Scotland Act. We can now see clearly what way the wind is blowing and if we let Labour have their way we will soon end up with a politically neutered parliament which will have so few powers that it won't matter whether Labour loses control of it or not.
394

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 13:43:31
Kimba, you're showing your true colours and it's unpleasant.
395

Sanny,

Glasgow 25/02/2008 14:17:00
469 Joe M.
Brown is simply whistling in the dark. If he tries to reduce the powers of the Scottish government he will be answerable to the Council of Europe. The present Scotland Act was drafted as the minimum that would be acceptable to the CoE and had they not implemented this, then the CoE would have imposed Sanctions on the Westminster Government.
I do not believe there is a serious move to 'claw-back' powers but simply to create a situation where to deflect us from seeking more powers we shall regard a success asretaining the current powers. In simple terms it's a con!
396

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 25/02/2008 14:18:45
Well done Gordon Brown & Adam Ingram, colonialism lives!

So,

in spite of a clear majority of the Scottish People being against Trident and new Nuclear Power Stations;

in spite of a clear majority of our Parliament's MSP's of all Parties being against Trident and new Nuclear Power Stations;

we have to hand back powers, roll over and have our tummies tickled like little colonial poodles and accept the WMD's and the risk of Nuclear Contamination?!?

just because our colonial master, Red Tory, Gordon Brown, knows best?? Has he never heard the one about the Genie and the bottle? Is he really that naive? Or is it stupidity?

EITHER WAY HE LOSES:-

if he backs down from this threat to remove powers - he displays his political weakness and ineptitude to the world. This would cost him big at the ballot box, north and south of the border;

and if he pushes through his plans to take back powers like some 19th century, colonial governor general - his party will be slaughtered at the next Holyrood Election and Independence will be delivered as early as 2011!

Now, just how close to the Olympics can a Nation submit their entry form to the International Olympic Committee?..........
.Mmmmm.
397

kimba,

25/02/2008 14:32:52
Joe M. What colours would those be? The colours of truth fulness maybe!
398

britfree,

camelon 25/02/2008 15:58:42
anyone who ISN'T intending to cast an S N P vote the very next time they get a chance , should start thinking beyond tribalism towards what can best advance the countrys' intrests, its simple scottish voice or london voice ??
399

,

25/02/2008 16:09:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
400

kimba,

25/02/2008 16:12:53
475. Think you'll find a lot of scots feel the same way.
401

kimba,

25/02/2008 16:16:29
474,"Tribalism" is that not what you are doing by putting the SNP against the London parliament!
402

Talorthane,

25/02/2008 16:20:02
475 Ayrshire Scot

"I would rather be governed by people who know what they are talking about rather than these idiots in the toy parliament up here."

What is the difference between those in Westminster and those in Holyrood?

Are you saying that Scots are incapable of making serious decisions and that we need the oversight of the London establishment?

Then again, at present, the leader at Westminster is a Scot, so what is the difference that you are referring to?

Why, in your view, are people in Westminster able to govern us, while those in Holyrood are not?