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Salmond blamed for 'cancer of bigotry'

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Published Date: 14 September 2008
FORMER First Minister Jack McConnell has condemned Alex Salmond for his "disgraceful" decision to abandon all-out war on sectarianism, warning he risks being remembered as a "political coward".
McConnell, who made anti-sectarianism a top priority and planned regular meetings between church leaders, says Salmond has let Scotland down by taking a low-key approach and claims the "cancer" of religious bigotry is already returning.

The unwrit
ten convention is that former First Ministers do not directly criticise their successors, but McConnell uses an interview in this weekend's Scottish Catholic Observer newspaper to condemn Salmond in the strongest terms.

He says: "Sectarianism is like a cancer – if you don't keep on the attack it starts to grow back. That is what has happened: the treatment has been stopped and the cancer is coming back."

McConnell says he assumed that his own strategy – which included regular summits between leaders of the Catholic and Protestant communities – would continue. "His (Salmond's] reluctance to do so and his refusal to provide an adequate explanation is disgraceful and I think he has let Scotland down," McConnell adds.

Salmond, he says, had "let his foot off the pedal", allowing those who "peddle bigotry and hate on both sides to feel they can get away with it". He said he had never considered Salmond to be "a political coward, but if he doesn't do something about this (sectarianism] that's what history will remember him as".

McConnell's anti-sectarian campaign dates back to 2002 when he first declared his intention, as First Minister, to rid the country of "Scotland's shame". It followed a parliamentary drive which recommended a crackdown on sectarianism, following numerous shocking incidents, including the fatal stabbing of a young Celtic fan in Glasgow.

A new offence of religiously motivated crime has been introduced, while new restrictions have been placed on marches and parades.

The response to sectarianism has flared up again over the summer after Celtic coach Neil Lennon was beaten unconscious in Glasgow by an attacker who abused him as a "Fenian bastard".

McConnell adds: "He (Salmond] should reconvene the anti-sectarianism summit by the end of the year. He should be willing to work with all parties on this and he should make very clear that the eradication of sectarianism is a prerequisite of a modern Scotland in the 21st century."

However, the SNP Government insisted the time for yet more summits on the matter had passed. A source close to the First Minister said: "These remarks are ridiculous and quite unbecoming of a former First Minister. Alex Salmond's commitment to and leadership in combating sectarianism is second to none.

"There is general recognition that endless summits are not the answer. The electorate judged Jack McConnell's administration last year and found it badly wanting. Jack should get used to it – he should not be sowing division on an issue which can and must unite politicians right across Scotland. He is just making himself look foolish."

Salmond's office also pointed out last night that Salmond – unlike McConnell – had specifically sought to sweep away the Act of Settlement, the law which bars a Catholic from marrying an heir to the throne.

Labour critics of Salmond's strategy privately allege that the SNP leader dumped the plans following pressure from the Catholic Church. The Church's bishops are known to have become irritated that the focus on sectarianism had encompassed questions over the future of Catholic schools.

The Catholic Church last night said it was "very supportive of Jack McConnell's desire to put sectarianism at the top of the agenda", but was not "particularly thirled" to a particular form of anti-sectarian action.

A spokesman added that it had been "unfortunate" that the summits had brought up the question of Catholic education once again.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 September 2008 9:57 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

,

14/09/2008 08:57:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

The Strategist,

14/09/2008 09:04:57
What on earth is this newspaper doing reporting this twaddle.
3

Senga Jean,

14/09/2008 09:07:41
It is sad that Jack should go so negative. Salmond ,like all/most political leaders find sectarianism abhorrent but realise that that there is a time to be subtle and a time to be harsh. Get that wrong and the sectarian bully boys win. Sectarianism,like racism comes from weakness not strength. It is the supposed victim status that gives it impetus. (We are overrun;they take our jobs etc,etc) Salmond plays a cool game in difficult circumstances!
4

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/09/2008 09:09:10
Aye he was responsible for the 1st World War, Vietnam, assassinating JFK and fought in the Battle of the Boyne.

Are you serious, Joke?????
5

Hector the Red,

14/09/2008 09:10:46
Jack McConnel had the chance to tackle sectarianism at it's roots when he was in power by getting rid of segregated schools, instead all he did was target Celtic and Rangers fans, and he has the cheek to call Salmond a political coward.
Seperating children on the basis of their religion is the starting point for sectarianism ny creating a "them and us" scenario which is unfortunately re-inforced by the actions of the parents.
Get rid of this antiquated system and Scotland will be a better place for everybody.

Keep religion to places of worship, out of harms way!

That's my rant for this morning.......I'm off to church.
6

SlyFifer,

Somewhere south of Fife 14/09/2008 09:10:58
Another non story. McConnel breaking with tradition of not criticising another 1st Minister. His track record on this subject is mournful and at least Alex Salmond is moving the subject forward in a constructive low key way. Scotland is riven with sectarianism which some of it's institutions seek to foster. Untangling this mess requires a soft touch and that's exactly what Salmond is doing. Let it work. Just another non story and any excuse to attack the SNP. Soon, with luck and good judgement on behalf of the Scottish people, there will be no Liebour party to worry about. Then, and only then can the old wounds heal and Scotland move forward into the 21st century.
7

Richardinho,

14/09/2008 09:11:24
Labour's solution to everthing is to form a committee, publish lots of glossy brochures, award themselves large expense accounts etc. They seem incapable of accepting that there might be other ways of doing things, despite the fact that their way is a constant failure.
Sectarianism will stop when people decide themselves to stop, not when some politicians tells them.
8

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 14/09/2008 09:12:46
But the biggest supporters of the union and the Labour party are the Orange Lodge and they dont get anymore biggotted nor sectarian than them. I dont ever remember Jack McConnell attacking the Orange lodge in any shape or form does anybody else? in fact his government supported their right to march where ever they wanted.
9

Calum10,

14/09/2008 09:14:09
Lets be brutal - More lies from a discredited Labour politician and a discredited newspaper journalist.

The SOS's personal smear campaign against Alex Salmond has back-fired once more.

10

Richardinho,

14/09/2008 09:15:21
Just a point before this thread quite likely gets binned;
Protestant bigots want away with Catholic schools.
'anti-sectarian' campaigners want away with Catholic schools.

I'm not saying that these two are necessarily related, but I will suggest that if you got rid of Catholic schools, it would represent a massive victory for the bigots and would intensify, not lessen, sectarian hatred.
11

beckypumps1,

Fife 14/09/2008 09:16:39
Who needs the sun when you have the hootsman. Was the black skirted one in favour of stopping single faith schools, Until that happens we will have bigots and even when we do teach our kids together it will still take a good generation or 2.
12

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 14/09/2008 09:17:15
Well we have the latest tome from steady Eddie, no change either in outlook or content. Trying to keep Jumping Jack Flash in the news with some of the sour belly aching that has emanated from our former First Minister ever since he departed office.

Should Jumping Jack not be departing soon for Malawi and take steady Eddie with him to turn the cooling fans on and off, that would appear to be an advancement more in keeping with his old news stories he allows his name to be as the bye line.
13

Kenny A,

14/09/2008 09:17:39
Jack who

Jack what

Jack s...it

IF HE WAS ANY GOOD HE WOULD STILL BE IN CHARGE

Not sure if even this cheapest of thoughts was even slightly thought out.

Not a Salmond fan to any great extent but this is just pathetic. And bet Salmond is loving it.

Off to the old vomitoriam, air is fresher there.
14

Boy Wonder,

14/09/2008 09:17:55
Joke McConnell did much good as a leader ... so what makes him think he can do better now?

Twonk!!!
15

Kenny A,

14/09/2008 09:20:35
Oh yes , Jack "assumed", as all old ish soldiers know assumption is the Mother of all F...K ups

Give this man a banana and an instruction manual
16

Venachar,

14/09/2008 09:22:32
If McConnell had been really serious about this he would have done away with faith schools, he's the coward!
17

LEAL,

14/09/2008 09:22:36
McConnell did little in all his years in government to end sectarianism,except generate hot air.Sectarianism is dwindling away and will continue to do so as Scots start to take a pride in their Scottish identity.Bigotry is socially unacceptable in all but a very few,very small circles usually found in football grounds.I think McConnell regrets the fact that he acheived nothing as first minister and is trying to blame Mr Salmond for his own inadequacies.McConnell will only ever be remembered for wearing a skirt.
18

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 09:23:33
He backed down on trams in face of opposition from other parties. Can't see him being brave here.
19

JenJen,

WestIsBest 14/09/2008 09:24:56
#3 "It is the supposed victim status that gives it impetus. (We are overrun;they take our jobs etc,etc) "

Totally agree with you but that's pretty thin ice when we're talking about nationalist politics isn't it? Just look at all the outraged subjugated nation, blame-it-on-the-English twaddle that regularly infests these boards (usually originating somewhere in Canada or the US). "Take our jobs" came up just the other day about English people staffing something or another.
20

,

14/09/2008 09:26:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
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21

donald,

glasgow 14/09/2008 09:29:41
What a cheek from the right wing Unionist Party that has played the sectarian card both ends to the middle for generations. "Home Rule is Rome Rule". A Free Scotland is a Free Kirk", etc.

You could start with the Labour Unionist Board at Parkheid and the Labour MPs, MSPs, MEPs, Cooncillors, Tame Union hacks and their contractor chums who frequent the Old Firm.

Token gestures by the Old Firm and Union Jack McConnell has done nothing to stem the bigotry, or save one life. Only the enforced amalgamation of the Old Firm, forcing them to wear blue and green, or a complete ban on them and any other team that tries to stat up on that basis will end the shame of Scotland and Unionism's biggest ally. It's only a game of football turned into a Unionist Institution.
22

shivago8,

livingston 14/09/2008 09:31:27
McConnell did SFA all the time he was in power.
The man is a joke
Scotlands disgrace.
Dont allow him anywhere near power,unless it is electric
23

albanman,

14/09/2008 09:32:26
The issue of sectarianism, once so rife in Scotland (in the 1960s I was turned down for a job at the Clydesdale Bank because of my Catholicism), now appears to be confined to the area of football, particularly Celtic/Ranger and Hearts/Hibs (for some reason it happily doesn't exist in the Dundee/Dundee United rivalry). I'm not a frequent follower of the beautiful game, but I would have thought that football clubs would be the organisations most responsible for tackling sectarianism in an effective manner.

This is my 30th year of teaching in secondary schools, and most of the kids of today are, in my experience, non-religious. I imagine that the majority of those responsible for sectarian insults and crimes wouldn't have a clue as to what a Catholic or Protestant (of any ilk) believes. About 5 years ago I taught an S2 pupil who said he hated Catholics (but couldn't say why), and was thrown into observable confusion when I told him that I am Catholic (because he liked me). The next day he approached in a most uncharacteristically sheepish manner with the assurance that he still liked me, but that his dad had told him Catholics were bad because they wanted to "get rid of the Queen and unite Scotand to Ireland". It had nothing to do with religion.

I'm not saying this to belittle the problem, but I don't believe sectarianism is widespread outside of the football. If I'm wrong, I'm certainly open to being enlightened.
24

,

14/09/2008 09:36:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
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25

radge dug,

Alba gu brath! 14/09/2008 09:39:29
DID McConnel ban Orange Marches? Work to end 'faith education'? Protect asylum seekers?

Maybe the reason why Labour won't work against the bigots in the Orange Order and at Ibrox is that they too are 'Unionists' - supporting the imperialist, warmongering and out of date concept that is the 'UK'.
26

radge dug,

14/09/2008 09:41:24
#28 - eh? So even the English SNP minister Michael Russel is 'anti-English'? Are the Norwegians 'anti-Danish' for mainting their independence? What about Fine Gael in Eirinn? Are the Unionists therefore 'anti-Scottish'?
27

John S,

14/09/2008 09:43:36
Alex Salmond risks being remembered as a "political coward".
Now what did McConnell see as his unique achievements during his 5 years as First Minister ?
According to an internal document obtained by The Observer(November 19 2006) Jack McConnell's major achievements during his 5 years as First Minister are:
The Fresh Talent initative and the reverse of Scotland's population decline
Banning smoking in enclosed public spaces in Scotland
Taking measures to reduce sectarianism
Continuing aid to Malawi
http://tinyurl.com/6o7ctj
28

radge dug,

14/09/2008 09:43:39
My Labour coucillor when younger was member of the Orange Order who addressed a huge rally at Leith Links and told us 'Protestants' to get on our white horses and fight the Catholic menace.

Labour were so outraged that he rose to become convener of the Labour council.
29

radge dug,

14/09/2008 09:44:56
I wouldn't worry too much about Labour sniping - mind they called striking fire-fighters 'fascists'?!
30

Kenny A,

14/09/2008 09:46:22
22

No offense intended but what are you on. I am baffeled this time.
31

Nikostratos,

14/09/2008 09:48:56
sectarianism the snp love it
32

GM,

14/09/2008 09:52:49
@28

lets not forget your own, multitude, of spite and hate filled posts concerning the so called islam-fest...


aye, 'bigot' and 'racist' are to this generation the 'commie' of 1960's America... assinine abuse dished out where all other attempts to belittle the opposition fail, and no more than smear in the hope that some mud sticks.
33

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 14/09/2008 09:53:00
I couldn't care less what a former Labour first minister says; whenever anybody from that shameful party speaks I just put my fingers in my ears and hum loudly. Out with the lot of them.
34

TWC,

Ayrshire 14/09/2008 09:58:31
Sectarianism is bad but the reason Jack got involved in it was because he was not allowed to talk about big national issues just wee West of Scotland issues.
He should have been representing the whole of scotland the way ALL the other parties are trying to do.
35

Me, myself and I,

Livingston 14/09/2008 10:03:53
Tell me ...

Is there a department within the SNP administration/party with a couple of wee geeks on their desktops with multiple user id's, who spend all day on these forums attacking anyone who questions the blessed Saint Alex?

Day after day the same usual suspects get up at the crack of dawn to post the first comments to the Great One.

One mans organisational excellence is another mans propaganda.

Maybe the moderators and IT department should trace the isp addresses? Could have some interesting results?
36

Brodric,

14/09/2008 10:08:29
This is a very delicate situation to handle and I think that the softly softly approach is a better one - and Salmond's attitude towards getting rid of the antiquated law of no catholics marrying the heir to the throne would go a long way to showing that things have changed.

For the rest, we live in a multi-cultural, multi-religious society and I think it is offensive that the Orange Order is allowed to do all the marches it does, whether in Scotland or Ireland. It celebrates a time of violence against catholics, suppression of a religious belief and the murder of priests.

Can you imagine if there were celebrations to mark the 1746 Act of Proscription and the success of the Duke of Cumberland against the Scots - there would be an outcry.

The Marches deserve the same outcry.
37

brownlie,

14/09/2008 10:09:22
28 sm753

Unconscious irony in the sentence "The Fat Minister leads a party which revels in bigotry..." especially in view of your constant description of the First Minister in this fashion.

However, I am more concerned about the head-line. At my local supermarket today a hugh poster for the Scotland on Sunday states "Salmond blamed for cancer of bigotry".

As very few people buy the Scotland on Sunday - even at half-price - it is that extremely misleading head-line that shopper will notice.
38

Marga,

Fife 14/09/2008 10:09:23
And slightly off-topic - just look at the section above, headed

More Scottish National Party

What a set of bigoted headlines! The sectarian nature of this newspaper's coverage of the SNP set out for all to see.
39

brownlie,

14/09/2008 10:14:49
40 me etc

Why this obscession with size? sm753 refers to "Fat Minister" and you refer to "wee geeks". Our unionist cause is not helped by such puerile name-calling.
40

LiviGuy,

14/09/2008 10:16:19

Cardinal O'Brien says in the Scotsman today that sectarianism should be called anti-catholicism. We he should have tried walking home from a non-denominationalschool past a catholic school. I did, and was regularly attacked and beaten up for being an 'orange b****d'.

Of course, that doesn't excuse atacks on catholics, which are equally despicable, but don't tell me that sectarianism is just aimed at catholics.
41

JenJen,

WestIsBest 14/09/2008 10:17:51
#40 you're so right!

The irony is that this kind of blinkered hero-worship is actually off-putting to normal Scots such as myself who are at least thinking of voting SNP for a sustained number of times.

I just don't wish to be associated with these intolerant, over-excited, aggressive people.

I've no doubt at all that they would say "blah blah blah Unionists are exactly the same or worse, here's the evidence".

They seem to forget that the SNP still has a way to go to change the inherent unionist nature of this country (look at the polls) and this kind of nagging, shrill, obsessive hero-worship is counter-productive.

They should just sit down, shut up and let the excellent (sadly, uniquely so) Mr. Salmond get on with it.
42

GM,

14/09/2008 10:21:16
@40

I have to keep posting this occassionally -

The only *confirmed* users of multi I.D.'s on these forums so far have all been unionists.
43

Scunner,

Bonnie Scotland 14/09/2008 10:24:07
Bringing religious leaders together is a waste of time. Genuine church goers could not care less about what religion someone is. Glasgow Rangers and Glasgow Celtic Football Clubs are the real reason behind Scotlands shame.
44

'smise,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 10:24:08
You consistently report anything negative about the SNP. Never the positives. This article is so biased it is pathetic.
45

Senga Jean,

14/09/2008 10:25:29
#20 Scotland's problems are Scotland's problems. It has nothing to do with the English. Your view of the SNP is way out of date if it was ever true. Self confidence is the best answer to bigotry of any colour! I repeat Salmond is leading a very wise response to sectarianism.
46

'smise,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 10:31:11
Religious bigotry is a Religious problem. Let the clerics and their congregations get on with living in a non sectarian way. They have a lot of work to do! The first thing to aim for is universal nondenominational education.
47

brownlie,

14/09/2008 10:31:30
46 jen jen

If you're looking for negativity, nagging, shrillness and obsession you need look no further than the multiple users such as "Highland Mighty/British Pride/Paisley 'Playground' Pete/Ciderman/Dane Bramage/Soup Kitchen/Alfred E Neuman etc etc" who do more damage to our unionist cause than any nat on this thread.
48

Nikostratos,

14/09/2008 10:31:37
Oh do shut up snp drones sectarianism will be rife in an Independent scotland as the nationalist try to drive the unionists into the sea...........you lot know it why deny the truth?
49

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 10:32:32
46 JenJen,WestIsBest
Aye everyone who thinks and acts the way you do is 'normal', but everyone else is intolerant, over-excited and aggressive.

Pardon me Sunshine but in the words of the Bard:-

" O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An foolish notion:
What airs in dress an gait wad lea'es us,
An ev'n devotion! "

Aye it's not us that's bigotted it's their lot.
50

Electric Hermit,

14/09/2008 10:33:19
A secular state is founded on secular institutions. Not the least of which is the education system. In one sense Jack McConnell is right. Salmond's pandering to the religiously deluded is as unacceptable as his own.

I don't just want an independent Scotland. I want an independent ENLIGHTENED Scotland.
51

Vivas,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 10:41:45
Eddie Barnes favourite song is "Puppet on a string".
52

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 14/09/2008 10:42:02
Gradually, religious sectarianism will fade away. Sadly however it willbe replaced by something else - that's just how it is. 'Joke' and his jottings will make no difference..... so no change there then!




Yours etc

Angus Whitton
53

JenJen,

WestIsBest 14/09/2008 10:42:31
#55

Glad you've figured that out, sweetie. The big news is, most people (aka voters) think of themselves as normal and everyone else as being the exception. The sooner you start to understand that, the sooner you guys might start using persuasion rather than shrill, sneering browbeating.

As predicted, a list of "Unionist" negatives appeared and indeed they are negatives. The difference is, they are the status quo and that's what will be most difficult to change. Currently, you are putting the floating middleground off with your approach. Perhaps you should go back and read that timeless poem yourself?

#50 Good - and I'll look forward to you making that point firmly when the expats appear again.
54

MNS,

Scotland 14/09/2008 10:45:54
My daughter has just started her education at a Catholic school. My wife grew up in 'the troubles' of Northern Ireland with personal tragedy. I was educated in Scotland. The church was The Church of Scotland. Hanging 'pride of place' at the entrance to my daughter's Catholic school (which is attended by children of multiple denominations)is a copy of a press article From The Sunday Times January 7, 2007. It states that Alex Salmond said : "I think the record of Catholic schools is first rate in Scotland" http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article1289566.ece

Make your own mind up!
55

chico y,

14/09/2008 10:47:52
A new low for this rag.

On a day when it's beloved liebour are in disarray and meltdown, on it's front page it comes up with a trashy, sick article trying to link cancer, Salmond and sectarianism.

This paper and this "journalist" are a disgrace.

Liebour have fuelled sectarianism for decades for their own divide and rule agenda.

No doubt this will get deleted as soon as I post it.
56

Tynietiger,

14/09/2008 10:49:17
McConnell's comments were made days ago and reported elsewhere. I suppose Labour press office had no other anti SNP stories for SoS to put on front page and lazy journalists couldn't go out and get a proper story.

This morning's Herald reports that BBC banning Iain MacWhirter from Radio and TV because of some antii BBC comments he made to the Scottish Broadcasting Commission .. oh and he has been generally sympathetic to new SNP government which must concern the BBC Labour Mafia no end.
57

brownlie,

14/09/2008 10:50:04
54 Nikos

Morning, how's the dog? What a strange view you take on the political situation in Scotland if you confuse a desire for independence with sectarianism.
58

FC Barcelona,

14/09/2008 10:50:12
what a garbage newspaper this is !!
59

Scotish Exile,

14/09/2008 10:53:11
The quality or lack of quality of articles in this newspaper, just gets worse. McConnell should keep his mouth shut, what did he do on this matter.....nowt. He had some meeting, big deal, what actually chaned..nothing.
Nothing will change whilst we have denominational and non-denominational schools. The state should run one school that all religions go to, if you want a catholic, or jewish, or muslim school for your sprogs pay for it yourself!
60

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 10:53:31
54 Nikostratos

So you don't share my view that sectarianism only serves the interests of the Westminster Establishment?


Devide and conquer/rule was and still is the ethos that built an empire, over which the sun never set, begun with Scotland and Ireland.

"So long as they are occupied fighting each other they'll be too busy to notice who's stirring it in the first place."

Not convinced?

From the Act of Settlement 1701, curiously after 300 years still in force:
Quote
""And it was thereby further enacted, that all and every person and persons that then were, or afterwards should be reconciled to, or shall hold communion with the see or Church of Rome, or should profess the popish religion, or marry a papist, should be excluded, and are by that Act made for ever incapable to inherit, possess, or enjoy the Crown and government of this realm, and Ireland, and the dominions thereunto belonging, or any part of the same, or to have, use, or exercise any regal power, authority, or jurisdiction within the same: and in all and every such case and cases the people of these realms shall be and are thereby absolved of their allegiance: and that the said Crown and government shall from time to time descend to and be enjoyed by such person or persons, being Protestants, as should have inherited and enjoyed the same, in case the said person or persons, so reconciled, holding communion, professing or marrying, as aforesaid, were naturally dead""
Endquote

Why still only catholics? no mention of jews, muslims or any other religion inspite of our current 'war on terror'?

And why did the Unionist parties at Westminster block the SNP's bill to have the Act of Settlement repealed?
61

bluehead,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 10:55:56
perhaps it would all be waste of time,for there is little doubt that there is more Big idiots than bigots
in this world,in fact it would seem that them who gibber incoherently against bigotry,are the biggest bigots themselves,these bampots should take a long walk of a short pier,it might cool them down.
62

Baby Driver,

Nirvana 14/09/2008 10:58:17
#41 Aye Brodric - the "Peacemongers" within the church of Rome were never known to get blood on their hands!!! There all as bad as each other. There haven't been too many wars where Religion wasn't an issue. There are still too many within the power mongering hordes of local, national and international government who play on the "hard done to" card at every turn. If you want it stopped, identify them and vote them out at the next opportunity. Or does it suit everyone to keep the "mouthpiece" in place?
63

guenevere,

14/09/2008 11:02:54
Salmond doesn't care!the more disharmony in Scotland, the more it suits his purpose!
64

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 11:03:21
54 Nikostratos

Forgot to mention, but as you can see from the extract at #70, Mr McConnell is in breach of the Act of Settlement himself as a Celtic Park season ticket holding good catholic he was and still is under that act should legally be barred from holding government office.
65

guenevere,

14/09/2008 11:04:46
71. And you should go play on the M8!
66

Backofthenet,

14/09/2008 11:08:03
"Sectarianism is dwindling away" (#18)

This is true and is backed up by the research done by Prof Bruce and his team at Aberdeen University. We have more significant problems in this country than something now largely confined to nasty, tribalistic songs sung at football matches.

As for the Act of Settlement it is an irrelevance to ordinary people's lives and it would take a great deal of time and trouble to do away with. The monarch must be in communion with the Church of England so that excludes all kinds of people including many Protestants - not that they are likely to become monarch anyway!
67

weh,

14/09/2008 11:10:47
What on earth is this newspaper doing reporting this twaddle."

This? A "newspaper"????

As i've said before, ONLY buy it to use when you run out of Andrex-its actually better quality!
68

brownlie,

14/09/2008 11:11:49
73 & 75 guenevere

Good morning, Granny Guenevere, what a pleasure to read your enlightened contributions this morning!
69

brownlie,

14/09/2008 11:17:30
80 "Hoots"

Leave the granny bashing to those with experience of doing so.
70

Mcsnagpile,

14/09/2008 11:20:52
There are no religious bigots in Scotland. In fact where the clergy preached against gambling they are turning churches into casinos, Where they preached against alcohol they are turning churches into pubs, where they preached against the painted ladies of the bight they have turned the churches into night clubs. The heathen religions of the past now preach on their pulpits.

The only Cathedral left is Hamden.

So what are you all moaning about?
Jis hiram or firem
71

roughrider,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 11:21:26
Mealy mouthed london brown noser JOKE Mconnell the loser should see a shrink.
His vile hatred of A.Salmond and the SNP is twisting his little pea brain mind.
Why dosnt he p*ss off to Malawi .No you cant till london lets you eh ,JOKE.
Sad little no mark.
72

Vivas,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 11:23:27
Maybe one day this comic will put two and two together and work out why it's sales are falling faster than Toom Tabbards personal popularity. I'm not holding my breath though.

It will be a sad day when it finally goes breests-up, however I respect their right to commit this drawn-out commercial suicide. NorthBrit towers will then probably become a hotel, just like it's former premises on North Bridge.
73

Venachar,

14/09/2008 11:24:53
Don't forget the question of segregated schools was pretty high up on the "to do" list when the Holyrood Parliament opened. What was the first thing our erstwhile MSP's including McConnell did? Give themselves a pay rise.
Get off to Malawi McConnell and don't come back you useless lump.
74

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 11:26:26
That McConnell’s comments about ‘sectarianism’ appear in the Scottish Catholic Observer tells us all we need to know about this busted flush. He hijacked Donald Gorrie’s poorly considered ideas and passed them off as his own in a crude attempt to cement his power base in west-central Scotland. His so-called crusade against ‘sectarianism’ was a dumbed-down, one-sided travesty in which songs sung at football matches were deemed to be all-important whilst broaching the subject of Scotland’s segregated education system resulted in accusations of ‘bigotry’.

The issue of ‘sectarianism’ has been deliberately overblown by those who wish to ensure that Rangers fans become Scotland’s new whipping boys.

The real danger lies in institutional sectarianism within the Labour Party, local government and much of the public sector throughout west-central Scotland, although I suspect this is an area upon which McConnell and the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church are grateful a compliant media will not touch.


Incidentally, I notice Scotland on Sunday - as has been the case with every other Scottish media outlet - insists on avoiding the word 'alleged' in connection with the incident involving Neil Lennon. This is yet another indication that the standards of journalism in Scotland are as low as those we normally attribute to our politicians.

75

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 11:28:41
76 Backofthenet
How hard can it be to say 'all in favour of letting catholics also be eligible to be British Head of State say AYE'?

If the Act of Settlement denied non-whites or non-males the throne of England, how long do you imagine it would it have remained on the statutes?
76

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 11:32:41
Many will be puzzled at McConnell's attack on Salmond?

Sectarianism is ingrained in Calvinist Scotland, especially West, Central Scotland. Some might say this cancer is part of Scottish working class culture!

However, it was never a real problem until the late 19th, early 20th Century, when an influx of thousands of Catholics AND Protestants from Ulster arrived in Scotland and brought their "traditions" with them to their new home.

One Scots historian described West, Central Scotland as just another Irish County.

By the 1930s, after the British Empire partitioned the Island of Ireland, debates at the General Assembly of the Kirk regularly attacked Catholics who, after all were still British citizens from Northern Ireland, for undercuting wages, and allegedly taking Scots jobs?

In the 1950s, Scots working class Protestants were great supporters of the 'Unionist' Party which had well over half of the Scottish Westminster seats! These were the halcyon days of the Tory Party when it could rely on gerrymandering the true working class vote by reason of religious preference!

However, the title 'Unionist' was later dropped in favour of the 'Conservative' Party. Many less than well informed Scots working class Protestant trades union members slowly changed their voting patterns to the Labour Party after they realised they had been voting for the "bosses party".
77

Backofthenet,

14/09/2008 11:35:22
#87

Removing the Act of Settlement would require an Act of Parliament not only in the UK but in every other country where our monarch is head of state. Our parliament and theirs have better things to do. And, like I said, it is not only Catholics who are excluded from (the wildly unlikely prospect of) being monarch.
78

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 11:40:33
McConnells an idiot. he has no right to pass judgement on Salmond after the shambles that he called a scottish labour government, he fails to see that he himself has been one of the keyu factors in the push for independence, and he helped very nicely.
79

Billy1690,

14/09/2008 11:41:07
It didn't take long for the enemies of free speesch and assembly -at least the speech and assemblies they dislike- to crawl from underneath the green slime. Here they are:#8, 29, 30, 33 and 41.

They want to persecute and proscribe an organisation that commemorates the overthrow of divine right kings and paved the way for the freedoms that have grown since 1688 -including their freedom to post their bigotted idiocies here.
80

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 11:43:20
PLEASE IGNORE GUENEVERE - SHE IS NOT ACTUALLY ENGLISH, SHE IS A GERMAN TRYING TO MAKE US ENGLISH LOOK BAD.

We here in England know that Salmond is an effective "boss" and that Scotland is going great guns. If you guys want to go it alone it is 1. Not for us to say/complain, and, 2. Entirely understandable.

I suspect that this article/headline borders on slander. Anyone with half a brain can see that bigotry is a deeply ingrained issue in the West of Scotland, yet not the East...but you can't blame that on Salmond.

Simple Question. What has Labour done in its heartland for the last 50 years to stop this problem?

Ans. Nothing.
81

,

14/09/2008 11:45:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

westview,

outside 14/09/2008 11:45:58
Seperate Church from State like the many civilised countries of the world. Teach secularism in school religeous studies. Stop the denigration of athiests by religeous leaders. Then sort out inter christian squabbles.
83

roughrider,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 11:47:01
And to think this wee gutter snipe used to be head numpty in the lib/lab gvmt.
Better to keep yer ignorant mouth shut Joke in a skirt Mcnumty
84

,

14/09/2008 11:47:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
85

McMillar,

Fife 14/09/2008 11:50:35
Is this another ‘lite’ anti SNP article…..I didn’t even vote for them and I’m sick of this nonsense. Little point in even reading beyond 1st 2 paragraphs. McConnell was dreadful, Salmond is not perfect but certainly ok job of running things.
86

,

14/09/2008 11:53:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
87

Escoces,

The world 14/09/2008 11:59:34
Why is a cheap jibe, by a unionist has been, reported as headline news? Is the herald now reduced to printing ever piece of desperate labourite propaganda verbatim?
I do not buy a newspaper to read an election pamphlet. Whoever has taken the editorial decision to abandon news reporting in favor of a 'Save the Labourites' campaign over the last few months, should get out or be removed or the Herald will go the same way as the labour Party - into oblivion.
88

Big Carbon Footprint,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 12:00:44
Wee berty I think you need to shut up your starting to make a fool of yourself, you seem to be forgetting what is said now not what was sprouted in the 1960s.
people will give you more respect if you actually had a full argument based on real facts not the delusional twaddle you have convinced yourself about.
89

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:02:05
78,79,81. Don't know your ages and you don't know mine,but one thing i do know "you both have no "commen sense",they say little boys never grow up,and as far as you two are concerned they are spot on!
90

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:05:45
101. It's about HOPE,but guess you are one of those who subscribe to the "Life is sh-t and then you die" brigade!
91

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:06:01
102 - LOL - its "The Scotsman", but I certainly take your point - who cares what this paper is called? Its bias is so evident that it misses the point.

This paper must be a bit of a joke up in Scotland, no?
92

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:07:50
107. Look it up in your dictionary!
93

Alec M,

Falkirk 14/09/2008 12:08:52
FORMER First Minister Jack McConnell has condemned Alex Salmond for his "disgraceful" decision to abandon all-out war on sectarianism, warning he risks being remembered as a "political coward".

At least, for better or worse, Salmond WILL be remembered; more then can be said for Wee Joke.
94

mcm,

14/09/2008 12:09:15
Alex has carefully segmented the market for votes by accepting and even extending the prospect of educational apartheid.
By proposing the extension of state funded faith schools to the muslim fraternity he may garner some support, but recent experience of funding certain ethnic groupings show this to be a cynical ploy which will only result in achieving a taxpayer funded branch of the Tartan Taliban. Cheers Alex.
95

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:09:34
EVERYONE IGNORE GUENEVERE - She is pretending to be English (by being obnoxious and stupid) to try and drive a wedge between England and Scotland. Ignore her and she will go away.

Thanks.
96

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:10:32
107,Christ you are illiterate if you think you spell it "comman".
97

Big Carbon Footprint,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 12:10:32
108 good point, but until we get rid of these twits that wish to ban something they don't understand I will continue to laugh at their sad pathetic existence.
I would even called them extremists at lest they make an effort an provide some entertainment this individual should be pitied.
98

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 14/09/2008 12:12:47
So Jack, HOW MANY Labour MPs, councillors and members are also in the Orange Order??

The best way to defeat sectarianism which is mostly tied to ideas of unionism and 'Great' Britain - both supported by Labour and Ulster Unionists - is for an indpendent Scotland which has a clear separation of state and religion and NO faith schools.

Support Independence against the Unionist Brit Nats Jack or shut up.
99

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:13:18
115. Totally agree.
100

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:14:24
117. you can also use "commen".
101

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:15:58
LOL - SEE!!!! I told you Guenevere was German and pretending to be English by being obnoxious and stupid!!! You can tell English isn't her first language by her dumb spelling mistakes!
102

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 14/09/2008 12:16:01
#91 - Billy1690 - so the Orange Order therefor worships the gay King Billy - a tyrant who slaughtered Scots protestants and Catholics alike? And as for fighting the divine right of kings - why then sing God Save the Queen? How progressive.

Better still - abandon ALL religion and monarchies.
103

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:17:19
116. Oh do shut up,you natz are sounding more and more desperate day by day.
104

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:19:09
121.
Commen
Sponsored Links Comen
Get Comen Search for Comen
www.Ask.com
1 dictionary results for: commen
105

brownlie,

14/09/2008 12:21:17
106 guenevere

You will note that I greeted you politely and stood up for you in a subsequent posting.

I hope you're not being sexist, or sizeist, by suggesting that I am a little boy!

Actually, as, by your own admission, you are Elizabeth the First's mother, you must be at least in your late sixties or seventies as our Liz admitted to being 52 and I applaud you for that.

Anyway, back on tropic, do you think Salmond is really to blame for the cancer of bigotry in Scotland as the head-line suggests or could there be other under-lying causes?

106

Big Carbon Footprint,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 12:21:20
Wrong the best way is better education and a rational debate on the issues rather than shouting others down and this rubbish about banning faith schools, don't tell me next you will want to ban private schools because the create elitism.
One size doesn't fit all, if I want to send my children to a particular school thats my decision not some jumped up communist who wants to interfere in every aspect of peoples' lives.
Stick your State controlling wants where the sun doesn't shine.
107

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:22:14
LOL - Once you are in a deep hole, stop digging!!!

She really is stupid.
108

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:28:49
Please, as an Englishman, PLEASE ignore this guenevere - she is trying to make us English look bad by acting this dumb. I know of no English that think like her.
109

Big Carbon Footprint,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 12:30:57
Don't worry we don't need to be told what to think about the English, here in Scotland we already have our opinion which I don't see changing in the foreseeable future.
110

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:32:51
127. LOL, What a total muppet,you are either a bit of a dim-wit,or you are trying to p'ss me off,lets just say Kim was having a "good old laugh" with you all!
111

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:37:08
I think granny is confused.
112

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:37:27
131. Really! and i don't know any English person that is so far up Scottish a''es,you will be singing the Halleluja chorus!
113

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 12:40:59
The only English people that are as dumb as guenevere are the children of the tees valley who are being assisted in their studies by a racist, mentally limited numb-skull.
114

Somelogic,

Dundee 14/09/2008 12:41:22
This 'HEADLINE' seems typical of various (so called) news-papers today. They know full and well half the population are pretty 'thick' and simply read the first line or two (if at all) of a report, skimming headlines as it were and not bothering to actually 'THINK' about the text in its entirety, and as the saying goes 'MUD STICKS'

The story seems pretty foundationless, based on a word or two from an EX first Minster who is getting ready to start a nice new 'cushy number'.

If his words were worth their salt, I’d imagine the voters might have listed to him and his party at the last election!
115

eric,

lothian 14/09/2008 12:44:42
Bigotry has been blow out of proportion by the media papers etc.Non story.
116

Somelogic,

14/09/2008 12:53:01
I hope that this silly religious 'sectarianism' nonsense will eventually fade away alongside other religious fundamentalist claptrap when ‘the day of enlightenment’ comes and the human race no longer feels the psychological need to cling on to childish archaic twaddle in the form of religion and the various ‘club rules’ that apply to each one. Of course the leaders of these ‘religions’ are a rich and powerful force and will do (as they have in the past) all they can to continue their and dominion. Unfortunately that day will come too late for some!
117

Captain Harry,

Gandamack 14/09/2008 12:54:47
It seems it's only sectarian when it's catholics on the receiving end in the world of Busted Flush McConnell and the Catholic church. They forget it's a two way street which old Joke should remember since his brother in law was the cause of one of the most ludicrous sectarian incidents in recent years. Maybe he should bring that up next time Bridie sends him off to be interviewd by the Catholic Herald?
118

guenevere,

14/09/2008 12:59:41
132. Good for you,would you like to know what the English think of Scotland! A dismal, dreary shower- Hadrian had the right idea,or Scotland being independent is irrelevant anyway because they all live in England, sponging off the state.
119

brownlie,

14/09/2008 13:03:28
133 guenevene

'Commen' sense would indicate that I'm guilty on one count! As for Kimba having a laugh surely you mean as a laughing stock?

Do you think Alex Salmond is to blame for the cancer of bigotry in Scotland?
120

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 13:07:36
The first thing I saw was "Salmond blamed for cancer".

Ah yes, I thought - just another typical Hootsmon/SoS headline . . .
121

guenevere,

14/09/2008 13:09:21
146.This is my daughter you are slagging off,so button it! As for Salmond read my post @ 73.
122

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 13:13:40
And was it not under Mr McConnell's government that a man was given a criminal record for blessing himself?
123

Big Stevie,

Sydneyside 14/09/2008 13:16:30
Sadly the depth of the entrenchment of sectarianism within the fabric of Scottish society and the task facing any political party trying to tackle it is clearly shown by the amount of people on this thread who still refer to faith schools as a cause of sectarianism.
124

Backofthenet,

14/09/2008 13:20:01
"And was it not under Mr McConnell's government that a man was given a criminal record for blessing himself?" (#151)

If you mean Artur Boruc, he was not given a criminal record and it wasn't for blessing himself. He was sent a warning letter for making other gestures (something he is in trouble for again at the moment, by the way).
125

brownlie,

14/09/2008 13:22:01
149 guenevere

As an intelligent English person with no axe to grind do you think that Salmond can be blamed for the cancer of bigotry in Scotland or do you think this head-line was dreamed up by a semi-literate subby with malice in mind?

Can I offer you my sympathy on your family connections?

Have you and Kimba had any offers from Big Brother?
126

BirnamOak,

14/09/2008 13:22:49
It's no up to Salmond to stop religous bigots fighting amongst themselves like children.
127

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 14/09/2008 13:25:16
It was a silly idea anyway. Bigotry of all description is completely covered by existing law - Breach of the Peace and Likely to Cause a Breach of the Peace.

We don't need new legislation, we need intelligent enforcement of existing law.
128

Alex Scott,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 13:25:29
#151,

If you're referring to Artur Boruc, the player was cautioned for making obscene gestures.

That he was cautioned for making the sign of the cross was a lie instigated by the Scottish Catholic Observer and propagated by Alex Salmond and most of the Scottish media.
129

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 13:31:13
Of course I mean Artur Boruc, a man who was given a criminal record for the simple religious and human gesture of blessing himself - one of the most disgraceful acts of religious persecution and bigotry I can recall, and which made me ashamed to be a Scot. And, for the record, I'm not a Roman Catholic.
130

thomas ferguson,

glasgow 14/09/2008 13:31:53
as daft jack found out but still does not know anti-sectarianism it was the biggest vote looser he could have thought up.and fly baw face salmond knows this and will not touch it with a barge pole,if daft jack had hit both sides in his campaign instead of the bad proddies it might have worked? bye bye daft jack a new country awaits you and take your bigoted wifes family with you
131

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 14/09/2008 13:33:28
In my town i have seen Labour councillors with bowler hats marching with a flute band. How is that fighting the sectarian problem? Alex is attacking the bigots right at the heart of their leadership...
132

Dick Lynas,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 13:34:49
One of these days everyone will acnowledge that, in Scotland, sectarianism is a synonym for anti-Catholiciism,with the demand to close catholic schools being merely a case in point.

Only in Scotland would you find people who believe that faith schools cause bigotry when in fact they are if anything a form of defence against it.
133

Ursus arctos horribilis,

14/09/2008 13:37:56
What a horrible place Scotland is becoming-a country where a vicious and calculating minority can pursue their own warped agenda against the majority -where there is no justice and where bigotry is only seen as being only one way -namely only anti-RC-which is absolute nonsense.

As for McConnell-he was part of the problem certainly not part of the solution-indeed he need look no further than his own family and brother in law for an example of the cancer in our midst. People in glass houses.........Jackie Bhoy

Regarding the reporting of the alleged Lennon assualt by an assailant calling him a xxxxxx-I am appalled that is being presented as an established fact-it is NOT.

Surely we are still waiting on the veracity of those claims to be proven in Court-or otherwise. It seems to be an open secret in Glasgow that a drunk and abusive Lennon was the instigator of that "sectarian" incident -allegedly-despite what has been published in the press. That is why no charges will be brought.If he was as innocent as he is being portrayed rest assured every means would be used to find the alleged attacker.

Another example of the agenda that is being played out.
134

jimboo,

fife 14/09/2008 13:40:35
Rampant nationalism built around the construct of "race" frightens the s*** out of me more than sectarianism.
135

busbyfh,

14/09/2008 13:41:40
Schools should be open to all children - Come on RC schools - open your doors to ALL.
Kids brought up together would soon bin this divided society BS.
What happened when the Muslims wanted schools for their own kids - public outcry about a religion NOT getting to segregate their children from others. Then why should other religions get to do this ?
136

danbob,

14/09/2008 13:42:07
Why should the existance of catholic schools be a problem in the fight against sectarian bigots anyway. They have catholic schools in England and Wales and nobody bangs a triangle. The problem is some scottish people who use sectarianism in the same way as the BNP use race. There is a problem in some parts of Scotland and it will get worse with independence. It is already starting to show with some postings on this site. This issue must be tackled.
137

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 13:43:38
#163 Dick

Obviously, faith schools don't cause bigotry. Ignorance perpetuates bigotry. But don't be silly, what else perpetuates ignorance if not lack of contact? If kids were mixing from the youngest ages, there would be less of a problem. What would possibly be wrong with kids of all faiths, and none, going to one school. They can get comparative religious instruction and particular faith instruction but share the other classes. If parents really want to bring up their children in a ghetto, they should pay for it themselves. The State should have nothing to do with funding 'religious' apartheid.
138

Backofthenet,

14/09/2008 13:45:10
"Of course I mean Artur Boruc, a man who was given a criminal record for the simple religious and human gesture of blessing himself" (#160)

Again: he wasn't.
139

Backofthenet,

14/09/2008 13:46:57
#167,

Actually there's quite a lot of opposition to faith schools in England and Wales including from one of the main teachers' unions, the NAS/UWT.
140

brownlie,

14/09/2008 13:46:58
167 danbob

I would suggest to you that postings on this site showing the cold clammy hands of sectarianism is indicative of only a tiny misguided part of the population and is nothing to do with politics.
141

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 13:55:22
When sectarian apartheid in our Scottish education system is institutionalised to pander to the bigots, why are we surprised we have religious bigotry passed onto their offspring.? We wouldn't have schools based on race so why religion.?
142

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 13:57:43
This newspaper is an absolute disgrace, just how low is it prepared to go, in its constant pathetic attempts to discredit A.Salmond and the SNP.



143

Gerry McGuigan,

Dundee 14/09/2008 13:58:16
Did the quisling say anything else?
144

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:02:04
Guenevere must be one confused old fishwife - Elizabeth the first claimed to be "kimba's mum", and now she does...I suspect kimba was created out of the damaged cells of two racists, in a disastrous genetic experiment. It is the only explanation for how you could produce someone so racist and stupid.
145

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:07:44
Sadly here in England, not just anyone can go to a C of E school - you have to go to church and be approved by the vicar if the school is popular. Do away with religious schools, I say. In many respects, England has the same problems a Scotland.
146

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 14:10:15
# 176

We have discrimination in these sectarian schools as only RC teachers are permitted promotion to the top level of employment and the rest face a glass ceiling. RC teachers can also teach in both sectors of denominational and non-denom schools but others are denied this same equality. This inequality should be illegal.
147

Pocket Dictionary,

14/09/2008 14:11:56
Did any of the politicians complain about the radio stationthat was letting callers sing off with "no surrender, god save the Queen"?
148

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:13:24
Did you guys know that Salmond is responsible for the race knife crime spree here in London at the moment?

I hope Salmond is ashamed.
149

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:16:15
Nationalist comments here back up exactly what Jack is saying. In fact the comments suggest that the situation is worse than what Jack says.
My feeling is that recent Nationalist politics is more black and white – less room for tolerance or acceptance. Less concern for the other side in any argument. In short, fertiliser for bigotry.
The politics that we have had in the past based on social class does not feed this hatred or indifference to race, religion, origin, nationality differences.
(Just watch - my views will be dismissed, shot down and ignored because Nationalists are always right and everybody else is always wrong.)
150

Billy1690,

14/09/2008 14:17:26
Hoots Fandango,14/09/2008 11:45:03 writes

"91,I now exercise my right to free speech.
­You are a cretin."

Well, that's the downside of the Glorious Revolution and the Scottish Enlightenment whose way it paved. How sad that people abuse its hard won freedoms.

Note that Hoots has nothing whatever to say on the actual point I made
151

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:18:44
Andra - quite right, I think. Now, tell me. Are most of the cases of bigotry not in the Labour heartlands of the West and Central Scotland? Hmmmm....doesn't that make what you said cobblers then? Hmm..
152

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:21:27
There seems to be a feeling that Catholic schools need abolished before sectarianism can be rooted out.
I suspect this is an excuse or cover for those who don't want to root out sectarianism.
It should be a human right to live without fear of sectarianism and also a human right to go to a different school if you wish.
153

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:22:24
182 Andra Dundee - in fact, you could say your argument is a double-bind. If anyone argues with you, then it proves you are right. If no one argues with you, then you are proved right.

Well done. You must be right then, yeah? Or I must be a bigot, yeah? Hmmm, again, total cobblers.
154

Media 1,

cape town 14/09/2008 14:22:34
I dont like Salmond because he is weak and unable to govern Scotland in the correct manner - he is a solo man, in it for his own agenda!

However, I totally disagree with McConnell.

McConnell is attempting to suggest that secterianism is a problem in Scotland - but it isnt! I live and work in Scotland enough months in the year to know the score. People get along and religion is not an issue within mature Scotland. Sure there is some areas and some people who use religion to rev up others, but that is not secteriansim, it is uneducated filth dispensing insult in a manner they know will get a rise. The same idiots will go out at night and see a belter of a woman and care less about her religion. It is all a nonsense.

There is more Anti English sentiment than anything else.

So whilst I still believe that Salmond is pointless, he should not be receiving a bum rap, especially from McConnell..
155

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:24:08
179 i hear what your saying monty python

yes discrimination is bad, things should be equal.

now could you tell us how catholicism is taught in non denominational schools?

could you also tell us how many catholic schools teach gaelic? As in the same way it is taught in non denominational schools?

because obvivously these things are going to be equal between non denominational schools and catholic schools as they are both state funded and there will be no differnce in these things?

this will of course prove your point that positive discrimination towards catholic schools exsists?

a link to this information would be most appreciated.
156

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:29:20
#184 Venerable Bede

Glasgow East!!
157

Billy1690,

14/09/2008 14:31:07
Calum Crubag,Dùn Eideann 14/09/2008 12:16:01 writes, "#91 - Billy1690 - so the Orange Order therefor worships the gay King Billy - a tyrant who slaughtered Scots protestants and Catholics alike? And as for fighting the divine right of kings - why then sing God Save the Queen? How progressive.

Better still - abandon ALL religion and monarchies."

1)The Orange Order is a Christian body and worships God alone, through Christ Jesus, in the Holy Spirit.
2) King Billy was NOT gay-although he did have close male friends. Field commanders grom Alexander the Great onwards have been much the same. Why malign the victor of the Boyne?
3) I draw attention to your homophobia. You obviously despise gay people. Who's the bigot, then?
4)King William was no tyrant -he replaced one, his father-in-law and uncle James II and VII. He slaughtered nobody but was fastidious about minimising bloodshed in battle.
5)The National Anthem, sung lustily by last night's promenaders, is a prayer to defend our constitutional monarch and has nothing to do with the tyranical political "divine right" doctrine of monarchy that is the very opposite and that was put to the sword in 1690.

God save the Queen
158

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:31:49
#189 - yeah, sorry, I blame the SNP for bigotry in Glasgow East as well! There was none there before they got in. It MUST be Salmond!
159

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:32:31
#186 Venerable Bede
I'm not bothered if you debate with me or not. I'm more making an observation of the other Nationalist comments. You do not see that level of non-tolerance from other supporters of parties.
From Nationalist posters I see a desire for a single party state.
160

bellini,

14/09/2008 14:35:13
If my memory serves me correctly ,the McConnell commission specifically excluded discussion of separate schools for Catholics as a possible contributory cause of sectarianism.Unlike Professor Devine,who states categorically that this separation is not a cause of sectarianism,I am of the deeply held opinion that it is the primary cause .Again unlike him I am prepared to listen to any arguments in favour with an open mind,but such arguments will not be held in McConnell's commission..
161

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:35:28
#187 Media 1
"it is uneducated filth dispensing insult in a manner they know will get a rise"
You describe an aspect of sectarianism very well - yet deny that it is.
162

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:37:12
i beleive that everyone has the right to follow their own religion whatever it is they also dont have to have one if they dont want. im not a catholic now but was brought up as one if taught me to be tolerant of others religions. Im also a nationalist andra.

163

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:37:36
192 - that is just myopic nonsense. I see it here and elsewhere the whole time. There are as many entrenched racists and bigots in Labour as there are in the Conservatives and SNP on a % basis- no one has the monopoly on idiots on brains. The very suggestion otherwise puts you towards the bigot camp yourself.
164

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:40:04
anyway lets discuss the act of settlement why exactly cant a catholic marry the monarch or be the monarch?
165

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:40:40
you remember the act of settlement the one that tony blair promised to get rid of. the one broons govenrment said they would look at.
166

The Sprucer,

14/09/2008 14:42:59

This article is rank. What the f*** does "thirled" mean?

Yet another letter will be sent to the editor.
167

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:43:55
#196 - you are probably right. But this site seems to be a magnet for Nationalist bigots and intolerants and since for some reason I do not meet Nationalists in the real world this is my main impression of them.
168

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:44:09
There is no doubt the article is guff.
169

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:46:03
200 andra

maybe your just not seeing them because you dont want to. maybe if you looked a little more closely youll find they exist.

can i suggest that an inflamatory story about the snp isnt the place to find them.
170

The Sprucer,

14/09/2008 14:46:36

#181

Did you guys know that Salmond is responsible for the race knife crime spree here in London at the moment?

I hope Salmond is ashamed.

How do you equate exactly that Alex Slamond is to blame for the knife crime in London? I'm all ears on this one.

What is this s****!?!?


171

Rab haw,

14/09/2008 14:48:05
Jack is trying to reinstall religion back into politics to get back the labour base which has maintained their corrupt regime throughout the west of Scotland. The personal attacks of late by him and the other dodos in labour do not warrant the press attention as people are aware that these idiots are slavering and no longer speak for the people but are desperately trying to re-instate their rule. Jack should go now before he brings more ridicule on himself and maybe cause more trouble in the area he is supposed to represent or is that is aim ?


172

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:48:31
203 i think he was being sarcastic sprucer
173

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 14:52:09
karinxxx

What has Catholicism and Gaelic to do with non-denom schools.? You may as well say Buddhism, Urdu or Punjabi as it is more widely spoken in Scotland than the terminaly ill Gaelic.

Sectarian apartheid in our education system is the root cause of bigotry in Scotland. Put it to a referendum for its abolition and it will be overwhelmingly carried.

174

Rab haw,

14/09/2008 14:52:43
Just a wee point if the Queen/King is head of the Church and defender of the faith could this have some bearing on why they cannot marry some one from another faith and tell me can the Pope marry a Protestant/Jew/Moslem /


175

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 14:55:41
karinxxx - very perceptive! :)

And a very good point - there are never any articles in this paper that attack Labour, so you don't get the rise out of the Labour supporters. There are, however, more than enough extreme Labour supporters on this website - as elsewhere.

Andra - you say you never meet SNP supporters....and you live in Dundee? I guess about 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 of people you interact with every day are either SNP voters, or want independence for Scotland....and guess what? They are quite normal, aren't they? Hmmm...
176

The Sprucer,

14/09/2008 14:56:37

#190

Tell me, who really, and I mean really gives a monkey's f*** about the Battle of Boyne? Who cares? It seems that you're more interested in that than say Culloden 1745 or say the Battle of Trafalgar, or maybe even the Second World War which as far as I'm aware seems to have had a much greater greater impact on THE WORLD.

Again, I merely state: why is this battle in someone else's country so important to the parochial minded in this one? If you've want something within these parameters, captivating to study, then start reading about the Macraes and the Hearts team during the First World War. This will make you think about fighting elsewhere for someone else.
177

Andra, Dundee,

14/09/2008 14:57:14
#202 karinxxx
There is no doubt that the majority of bigots in the West of Scotland are not Nationalists.
However there is also no doubt that bigotry and violence are cancers in the West of Scotland and positive action is needed to fights these issues.
My concern is that at best the SNP are unconcerned about the matters and at worst the SNP and Nationalism provide an atmosphere where they thrive.
178

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 14:57:18
The Act Of Settlement means the future Monarch can only be CofE as the new ruler is also Haed Of The CofE. . That means "Protestants" of other denominations can't be Monarch either. To say this Act is an example of "anti-Catholicism" is basically uneducated nonsense.
179

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 14:57:50
206 couldnt answer my question then monty the point is that catholic schools rather than being a source of discrimination are in fact discriminated against. no state school teaches pupils about roman catholicism in the same way that catholic schools do.

also these children are scottish and at state schools so should have the same access to lessons that pupils in non denominational schools do but they dont.

if you go to a non denominational school you can learn gaelic but not in any state funded catholic school.

in effect catholic school children are forced to choose between their religon and learning a language.

if you think im wrong prove it you wont be able to.
180

Britishandproud,

14/09/2008 15:00:56
Isnt the seperate catholic school system just a private education at the taxpayers expense?

If even the likes of Lorraine Kelly can see that this seperation of kids at such a young age is disgraceful !
181

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 15:04:10
# 212

I'm sure learning Esperanto or Klingon isn't on the school curriculum either so ergo these poor individuals are being "discriminated against" also.? LOL

Sectarian schools perpetuate bigotry and this is acknowledged as such and their advocates know their time is up.

182

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:04:18
what schools should be doing is setting aside a certain time each day for children to observe and be taught about their religion working with their different religous leaders eg preists ministers rabbi etc. until schools do that then you are going to have a lack of understanding about any religion. all children should be taught the same way while observing their religous and cultural differences but until people make allowances for these then nothing will change.

jack mcconnel is wrong to attack alex salmond what labor should be doing is putting forward an alternative where everyone is happy whatever their religion.

however as usual they come up empty.

183

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:07:18
214 agian your missing the point probably on purpose

gaelic IS TAUGHT in non denominational (state) schools

but isnt taught in STATE funded catholic schools.

if klingon was taught in catholic schools and not non denom schools then maybe you would have a point

however your failure to come up with any evidence proves that you are wrong.
184

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:09:00
214 you also show your ignorance of the catholic religon


ive read the koran and made some small studies of other religions can you same do you know anything about catholicism?

or are you just a sectarian bigot?
185

Hamish Scott,

14/09/2008 15:13:28
#204
Rab - Sadly, I think your comment could be the most perceptive. Scottish Labour are in electoral meltdown and perhaps desperately seeking a power base they can rely on?
186

Venerable Bede,

14/09/2008 15:17:22
karinxxx - please, stop bringing religion into a debate on bigotry.

Thanks.
187

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:17:46
211 you will of course be able to explain why the monarchs husband or wife cant be a catholic what exactly does that have to do with the coe.

they can be a moslem or jewish etc etc but are forbidden by law to be a catholic.

justify that
188

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:19:11
219 that wasnt even funny new jokes please.
189

Rod Lamon,

Leeds 14/09/2008 15:19:35
and what did the failed former First Minister publically say when his own brother in law went on a sectarian rant against two Protestant school girls?
The silence was deafening.
Joke is a bigot becuase his whole campaign centred on attacks solely on the Protestant culture.
190

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 15:27:48
#217

If anyone "of faith" wants to instil any particular belief into their offspring they are perfectly entitled to do so...but not at the State's expense or the cost of social cohesion.

Alabama-style segregated schools in the West Of Scotland are the root cause of sectarianism. Those who say they aren't are a miniscule deluded minority.

191

Rab haw,

14/09/2008 15:31:30
Karin lets not forget all christians are catholic but not all are Roman Catholic
192

Rab haw,

14/09/2008 15:35:42
The unfortunate truth about Jack is that in his seat religion plays a massive part in how a lot of people vote and have voted in the past thats why weve been ruled by monkeys for years the fact that people are moving away from that is evident and Jack is quite deliberately trying to bring it back and he should be ashamed of himself.
193

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:39:33
223 so yo would like to remove teaching about the festival of lights and hannukah etc from non denom schools as well this is religion that is taught in state schools.

so now your just against all religous teaching that is then biased towards people who are agnostic.

i note you still havent come up with any proof to prove no bigotry against catholic schools by the state and the non teaching of catholicism in state schools

i also note you couldnt and still cant justify the non teaching of gaelic in catholic schools even though its taught in non denom schools

your argument gets weaker by the second.
194

Jo Jo,

14/09/2008 15:42:04
Jack McConnell is a failed politician still trying desperately to life in the media spotlight.Thankfully most people saw through him and booted him out of office because his only "achievement" was allegedly tackling Sectarianism.
The fact that he wouldn't comment on his own brother in law's open bigotry says it all about this charlatan.
Secondly if we are talking about faith schools then why in 2008 do we still support a system for one minority faith and not all minority faiths.
Why are Catholics treated differently from muslims,jews or any other religion?
All we hear is them bleating on and on about persecution and anti catholic rhtetoric and yet we have a system in place that some would say is Sectarian as it favours their religion and no one else's.
Also and probably the most damning aspect of that story is the comment from the Catholic Church Spokesperson stating it was "unfortunate" that they themselves had to withdraw from these talks as they didn't want anything or anyone talking about let alone attempting to dismantle their breeding grounds in the Education system.
Sectarianism was not the big problem McConnell attempted to make it out to be but since his ill thought out policy became headline news it has simply hardened and some would say fostered Sectarianism in people who were not of that mindset.
The soooner people like McConnell and indeed Salmond have nothing to do with running this country the better all of us will be.
195

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 15:47:29
# 226

There is no bigotry against RC schools and never has been. Faith schools should be abolished as they simply don't work on any level and are a complete failure, both academically and spiritually. Only one RC school is in the top 50 in Scotland for academic ability. I need say no more...

196

Pepper Pig,

North London 14/09/2008 15:47:52
As a man who grew up in the West Coast heartland of Kilwinning, I first came across religious differences as a boy of 5. Me and my two mates, Jimmy Ford and James Monaghan, were sent to different schools. Me to Abbey Primary, and the two Jimmies to St Winning. "Why?", I asked my father, a Son of the Manse. He had brought me up well, to believe that everyone was equal and the all the same underneath. He was at a loss for words. He did not want to say I was different to my 2 mates. We all spoke the same, all ran around the same, and loved playing football the same.

That is why separate schooling does not work.

Catholics are not different to Protestants, who are not different to Muslims, Hindus or even Jehovah`s Witnesses. We are all the same underneath the skin. We all need to learn about maths, English, the capital of Nigeria, the history of our great country and all the rest. Religion can be taught at Sunday school, not Mon-Fri.

Karinxxx, by the way, you are typical of the problem. Someone made a valid point about separate schooling, and you lash out blindly, squealing "Bigot!"
197

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:57:24
228 so state funded faith schools dont work.

who is to blame for these failings?

surely government is responsible if the academic acheivment in these schools is failing.

now could this be because more money is thrown at non denom schools say with more funding for gaelic lessons among other things.

obviously catholic schools are not receiving the same level of financial support that other state funded schools are otherwise the educational attainment would be better.
198

karinxxx,

14/09/2008 15:59:54
229 and some of us have different religions you fail to realise that being different is what makes us all the same.
199

Monty Python,

14/09/2008 16:07:03
# 231

It appear that this "special ethos" of faith schools is another term for " poor education". Those poor kids are being cheated of an all round education. I feel sorry for them, tbh.
200

brownlie,

14/09/2008 16:08:25
210 Andra, Dundee

Take a look at the head-line in this article. It states "Salmond blamed for cancer of bigotry". The clear inference in that headline on its own is that Salmond is being blamed for it. Then ask yourself the questions

"What is the purpose of this head-line".

"Is it designed to stir up bitterness such as posted by certain individuals on this site?"

"Is it more, or less, likely to encourage or discourage bigotry?"

"Is it based on concern regarding this problem or is it designed to denigrate Salmond"? and

"Is it politically motivated"?

"Is it a fair summation of the article to which it refers"?
201

Tynietiger,

14/09/2008 16:08:37
Rather than printing old news perhaps SoS could ask Joke McConnell about this story. Political sleaze file goes missing Sunday Times 14 September
A secret file on alleged sleaze religious bias and nepotism in the labour party, which. had been stored in the National Archives of Scotland, has gone missing after being removed by the previous Labour led administration.
The sealed documents dealth with the Monklands scandal, which saw Labour councillors accused of religious bias and nepotism in the 1990s. (To which Saint John Smith turned a blind eye)..
The papers, which were to be kept from the public for 30 years, were removed removed from storage at the National Archives in 2005, just a few months after the introduction of Freedom of Information laws that could have led to their release.
After the McCrone Papers, we wonder what other papers were shredded.
202

HolyRude,

14/09/2008 16:10:01
Getting rid of sectarianism is no guarantee that the violence would come to an end. The guys intend on fighting would find another excuse to justify their behaviour.
I regularly come into contact with 50-60 people every week and unless they are wearing some item of clothing which denotes their religion I am completely unaware what religion they are. This article and the comments was as much of a shock to me as hearing someone say in this day and age 'She had to get married' I thought all that was a thing of the past.
203

Linda,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 16:17:42
# 235 Interesting post on Labour's religious sectarianism in Monklands.

We are of course used to Labour playing the sectarian card "Home Rule is Rome Rule" etc
204

wayne bijlyeerheid,

14/09/2008 16:25:08
There are no Protestant schools.
There are non-denominational schools and, for those who wish their children to be kept separate, rc schools.

Talking of bigotry how many non-catholics would waste their time applying to bridie for a job?
Might as well apply for a job in a catholic school and expect fair treatment.
205

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 16:43:38
Keep it up Labour! Not content with being ousted at Holyrood you want to be destroyed completely!
No party abhors sectarianism more than the SNP.
They are trying to unite Scotland and its Labour who play the sectarian and race cards and hope to stop this unity getting off the ground.

So far its been a well deserved zero success!
McConnell should content himself with having screwed up the First Ministers job , and there is no need to remind us why you were useless Jack!WE already know!
We have another one to deal with now except he will never even make First Minister.
I really think Labour (in Scotland) need to break away from Westminster NEW LABOUR now !

After the General election there will be nothing left in England to break away from!

Bean will be a HAS BEAN at best,and some would say a NEVER WAS at anytime!
206

Pepper Pig,

North London 14/09/2008 16:46:15
Happy English says: "one person being a Catholic and the other a Prost." Is that as in the motor racing driver (Alain), or "Remembrance of Things Past" Marcel? :>))
207

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 16:47:47
242

The Act of Settlement is a figment of our imagination then is it?
208

Stuart F.,

Vancouver, Canada 14/09/2008 16:56:38
Is it really up to the Government to end sectarianism?
I think that the end to sectarianism, like racism, lies within each of us. You know the saying, ' Treat others as you would like to be treated... ' Dialogue is always a good thing, but do we need Government to do it for us?
209

Media 1,

cape town 14/09/2008 16:57:25
If you are an athiest and share a strong and honest friendship with a protestant person you know you would die for. Could you be considered a secterian bigot if you were one day found shouting "ya proddie barstrd" at a football match?
210

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 17:14:39
247

That sounds sensible Stuart. Its difficult for any government to find a solution to this, or they would have already done so!In fact I was speaking to a young Irish couple last night who had flown over for a wedding,and are convinced that the sectarian violence probably has stopped (fingers crossed)and provided we don't do anything crazy it should remain so, but it is far from secured ,in that there is now a Catholic majority in Northern Ireland apparently,and it will appear in the ballot box increasingly over the next 15 years. The reunification of Ireland could become reality through democracy !The Ulster Unionists have no choice but accept this democratic decision in theory!

If The British Government show their usual level of understanding of what people think as opposed to what Westminster says people should think,then it will start again, and their performance so far in Scotland suggests that they have learned SOD ALL!

Labour are just claiming nonsense all over the place because they cannot claim anything else.
McConnell infers he was making progress .


Mo Mowlam made progress!She should be acknowledged I agree.
The only thing McConnell ever made was excuses and even they did not work.
211

,

14/09/2008 17:14:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
212

Daillyman,

14/09/2008 17:17:51
Why is it the states responsibility to teach religion in publically funded by the tax payer, segregated related schools.

Surly the purpose of school is to educate the students, and that ant religious training is the responsibility of the parents and local church they go to on a Sunday.

Leave schools to teach the Maths, Sciences and Literature to the kids instead of separating them at 5 year old in separate schools and teaching them they are different. Hence starts you instilling of bigotry.
213

worker,

Livvy 14/09/2008 17:25:06
dear mr MacCandle, as you have nothing further to contribute to Scottish Politics, may I respectfully suggest you don your Tropical Suit and Kepi and withdraw to your wee Malawi posting?
214

Media 1,

cape town 14/09/2008 17:26:21
Jwil

Cmon, anti SNP rhetoric? You could say that Salmond and his crusade to free an already free nation is creating anti union tendencies.

People must be entitled to their opinions no matter how harsh or cutting they may be. Free speech means free speech.

Independence for a free nation is outrageous, especially when that nation enjoys the fruits of one of the most powerful partnerships in the world.

Scotland is such a wealthy nation these days, such a splendid country full of opportunity! Long may that continue.
215

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 17:26:50
249 happy english
You might also be ignorant of the racial equality or equal opportunities laws but they are current and no less legally binding than the Act of Settlement.

Tony Blair promised to repeal it, Gordon Brown promised to think about repealing it and Alex Salmond's SNP sponsored Bill calling for it to be repealed was defeated by Unionist MPs in The Commons.

Of course this was as you say years ago, but Roman Catholics are still a second class as far as the UK Constitution is concerned, even if you and your friends in England could care less.

btw I am a Proddy.
FYI
The Act of Settlement:
"...And it was thereby further enacted, that all and every person and persons that then were, or afterwards should be reconciled to, or shall hold communion with the see or Church of Rome, or should profess the popish religion, or marry a papist, should be excluded, and are by that Act made for ever incapable to inherit, possess, or enjoy the Crown and government of this realm, and Ireland, and the dominions thereunto belonging, or any part of the same, or to have, use, or exercise any regal power, authority, or jurisdiction within the same..."
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/c-eight/constitu/settlemt.htm
216

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 17:32:41
254 Village Idiot,cape town
.
.
.
.
Naw forget it, you keep on digging.
217

Wallace1297,

14/09/2008 17:36:19
Jack McConnell is a simpering spineless tw*t. There is a reason why this the Scottish public gave this joke of a man the boot at the last election. Nobody cares what he thinks expect, lazy journalists who can’t be bothered leaving the office to get a real story. McConnell should stop making a fool of himself and go and retire to Malawi or the South Pole and stop bothering us with his irrelevant prognostications.

I really don’t know why we bother debating this issue. The solution is simple. Make all the mentally ill weak minded fools (who give massive amounts of money to healers like Benny Hinn and Pat Robertson) change their religion every hour. That way sectarianism disappears overnight.

PS to all you religious loonies who insist on your right to mutilate your children’s gentiles or kill non-believers or even that the world is 6000 years old because of your faith that is fine. Just don’t impose your poison on me, ask for me to subsidise your religious schools or give you special dispensation to break the laws of this country.
218

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 17:39:48
#255 Livilion

I know two wrongs don't make a right, but the fact that a Catholic is banned by law from holding ONE office in the UK hardly compares to the gross inequality in at least HALF of the membership of the Catholic charge being prohibited, by gender, of holding ANY of the offices of their own Church. Until they put their own descrinatory house in order, they can hardly complain can they?
219

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 17:44:08
248

One could be considered as such I suppose,by some people,but personally I think we give them too much respect by even suggesting that they can be classified as anything,and therefore know something about what they are shouting.
Its pretty obvious that what they know uses the same initials as the Scottish Football Association.
Most of them are just plain moronic , and tribalism is one of the very few things they are capable of.
One sure sign of a total zero is he wishes to be seen to be associated with other zeroes!

They are not football fans.They are certainly not Christians!
What does that leave?
220

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 17:44:09
248

One could be considered as such I suppose,by some people,but personally I think we give them too much respect by even suggesting that they can be classified as anything,and therefore know something about what they are shouting.
Its pretty obvious that what they know uses the same initials as the Scottish Football Association.
Most of them are just plain moronic , and tribalism is one of the very few things they are capable of.
One sure sign of a total zero is he wishes to be seen to be associated with other zeroes!

They are not football fans.They are certainly not Christians!
What does that leave?
221

,

14/09/2008 17:46:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
222

Wallace1297,

14/09/2008 17:48:59
Circumcision both male and female for religious reasons
223

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 17:53:02
248 Village Idiot,cape town

Yes


Breaking the law makes you a criminal no matter who you have as a life partner or what public events you attend. Duh.
224

,

14/09/2008 17:53:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
225

Wallace1297,

14/09/2008 17:53:58
Yes spelling mistake on my part
226

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 17:56:55
254

You could say that Salmond and his crusade to free an already free nation is creating anti union tendencies.
You have uttered some crud in your time but that is just plain barking mad!
The freedom that you assume exists (rightly or wrongly), for the multinational state called the United Kingdom,which for the purposes of simplicity we will assume is a nation,(which to all intents and purposes we would agree it is), is identical to the freedom that Salmond pursues for Scotland ie FREEDOM. You cannot define freedom as something pertaining to Westminster rule but cannot exist at any other venue.That's completely illogical!
227

Centurion2,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 17:58:17
Anti- Catholic bigotry existed in Scotland long before Catholic schools came into the State system in 1918.
228

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 17:58:49
264 Red Neck,WEST HILLS
Sorry Pal you are so off the mark as to be from another planet.

Scotland cannot be independent so long as so-called christians are beating seven shades of you know whit out of each other on a saturday night because their respective religious leaders wear different funny hats.
229

morris,

edinburgh 14/09/2008 18:06:38
272

That may be true but segregating them from each other ,when children spontaneously know only how to play together, must surely be the first change that we make.

That's like trying to stop the spread of aids by stopping the manufacture of condoms.
Clearly it's just plain stupid.
230

Giesabrekk,

Hamburg 14/09/2008 18:10:09
#269 ... That would have made the Gentiles eyes water :)

231

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 18:10:50
This article is from the same FORMER First Minister Jack McConnell who claimed that he had to placate his 'North Lanarkshire Murphia' by buying a season ticket to Celtic Park and be seen on the Parkhead terraces of a Saturday afternoon in order to become eligible to be leader of his party?

Me thinks Union Joke speak with forked tongue.
232

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 18:13:19
275 morris
Yup and firefighters cause fires, where there's smoke and flames there's aye fire engines on the scene.
233

An Beal Bacht,

14/09/2008 18:16:07
Jack McConnell is a disgusting wee has been.
234

Wallace1297,

14/09/2008 18:18:13
JESUS CHRIST How come we are even discussing the man who wore that kilt. The man is worse than useless. I’d sooner have Jeremy Kyle show guests running the country and this man was First Minister for FIVE YEARS
235

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 18:25:19
"The response to sectarianism has flared up again over the summer after Celtic coach Neil Lennon was beaten unconscious in Glasgow by an attacker who abused him as a "F*n**n b*st*rd"."
(An insult so vile that the Scotsman's cyberpolis will not even permit to be reproduced in parenthesis)

Imagine my shock and wonderment when on a business visit to Dublin one local self confessed F'n'B informed me that he was in fact - a protestant.

Just showed me that most of us use expletives because they sound or feel right, but have no idea what they actually derive from or mean.
236

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 14/09/2008 18:27:52
Nobody should be surprised by Aik Salmon's indifference in this respect. After all for a man who is happy to set Scotsman against Englishman when it suits him one would expect he could at least stand up against all the bigots in this respect - but no, as I suspect he senses there might be a few Scottish votes at stake here in parts of the West of Scotland where he will need to convert a few more Labour voters to his cause. Salmon may be a man of political savvy but he is surely also of low moral fibre when it comes to tackling the really hard decisions in Scotland. This is a further example of the bright yellow streak that runs through the SNP logo as well as its main exponents.
237

HolyRude,

14/09/2008 18:33:25
263
"Hoots" Fandango

Mutilate a gentile? WTF?

It's a typo! Even I knew that and I'm as thick as mince!
238

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 14/09/2008 18:35:38
McConnell is 100% correct. When the difficult issues have to be tackled, Salmond is conspicuous by his absence. A disgrace.
239

livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 18:35:56
283 Liberal for life
"This is a further example of the bright yellow streak that runs through the SNP logo as well as its main exponents" ???! Frae a Liberal tae!

Cover the weans eyes, - politicians tell lies. As a Liberal for life you should know better than most.

A few extra votes means a few extra voters happier with the democratic process. A concept probably alien to the Liberal mindset, remember 'Go home and prepare for dinner'?

240

Wallace1297,

14/09/2008 18:44:42
Remember Jack tried to explain his position on the council tax
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=toQJKa1NP7g
241

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 14/09/2008 18:48:43
Has Joke McDonnell not p*ssed off to Malawi yet?

Liebore have had DECADES to sort out sectarianism in west central Scotland. Was their personal fiefdom for long enough...WAS being the operative word.
242

Centurion2,

Glasgow 14/09/2008 18:55:19
275
Bigotry comes from the home, not the school.
243

Keith Mac,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 18:55:29
69 - Scottish Exile - I couldn't agree more. Please come back and form a Government!
244

Pro Libertate,

Not the far side of the moon 14/09/2008 18:57:38
Dear pot, you are black - the kettle.

Nice one Jack, somewhat hypocritical though as you were once part of the north Lanarkshire Labour clique that had their fingers in lots of pies.

What are your concerns? Perhaps that democracy is taking over - OMG how disasterous, what hope for Labour now? Hopefully none.
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 18:58:59
268- catholic schools exist all over the world the only places it causes concern are scotland and northern ireland [common denominator?] u decide football players bless themselves all over the world the only places it causes concern are scotland and northern ireland, [COMMON DENOMINATOR ? ] U DECIDE catholics have there own schools because they had to because they were not wanted in non denominational schools that they are called now , i read with intrest today that black english players are calling for a ban on croation fans and balkan fans in general for racial abuse , celtic fc goalkeeper artur boruc is on a sfa charge for lifting one finger to rangers fc fans who without doubt were abusing his religion family and gender ONLY IN SCOTLAND , COMMENTS WELCOME PLS
246

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 14/09/2008 19:01:00
#286+289 - don't give me your dross responses which I suspect mean the pair of you are first class bigots as well as narrow minded nationalist seperatists. McConnel's remarks are a factual account of the lack of leadership and no-sense of direction from Salmon regarding this disease that pervades society in Scotland, albeit mainly in the west of our country. If he can't face up to reality then he is most welcome to the type of supporters you two blatently appear to be - now go back into your caves!
247

Pro Libertate,

Not the far side of the moon 14/09/2008 19:09:39
Following on from wee Jack's rant, nice to see the Scottish Labour Party has been blessed with the election of what's his name as leader.

From the high-class field he was a stand out winner, whoever he was.

Hopefully he will be following in the path of former Scottish Labour Party leaders and:
a) being subservient to his Labour masters in London,
b) doing nothing for the Scottish people,
c) resigning for fiddling the books, or
d) being banned from Holyrood for being incompetent and not registering donations, however unlawful.

Keep up the good work.
248

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 14/09/2008 19:10:56
#303+304 - well if the cap fits...........! - but I suspect you have been wearing it a gey lang time already.
249

Arthur Teak ,

Glasgow this week 14/09/2008 19:11:42
'Sectarian' Crime like the near beating to death of a Rangers' fans by 4 'football fans wearing green and white hoops amounts to 0.03% of recorded crime in Scotland. The man who lost labour Scotland for the first time in fifty years and who brought us the 'Scotland's Secret Shamel fiasco to appease the West of Scotland Labour Establishment (Celtic Park Branch)is trying to reserect a campaign that was discredited as soon as the RC Church forced the concession that denominational schooling would not be included. Thus the only beneficieries of this nonsense are the 'Sectarian Industry' types, Like NBM being paid a fortune out of the public purse and the demented sectarian bigots who continually phone up radio phone-ins claiming to be members of the 'oppressed' Irish diaspora.
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/09/2008 19:12:36
Is Jack McConnell getting ready to vacate his seat for his post in Malawi?

Best explanation for this story appearing.
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Western Gael,

14/09/2008 19:17:06
Scots have already weighed Jack McConnell and his policies in a public balance and found it wanting. Otherwise the SNP would not be running the place.
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Arthur Teak ,

14/09/2008 19:17:27
11 Richardhihno

"...but I will suggest that if you got rid of Catholic schools, it would represent a massive victory for the bigots and would intensify, not lessen, sectarian hatred..."

You may suggest this all you wish but unless you can back it up (and that would require an argument ofJesuitical 'double-think' proportions) I would say you are completely and utterly wronf.
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/09/2008 19:18:37
Hmmmm? Can't find the post but it was a bout the Orange Lodge worshiping only God and doing it through Jesus.

Is that not a contradiction? If you worship God then you go direct.
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Liberal for life,

Dunblane 14/09/2008 19:18:57
~306 - so where did the Protestant bit come into my post?

Its not Christianity thats the problem but its mis-representation by the different faiths and creeds who adopt it to suit their various predjudices, so behave yersel!

And remember "God is Love" and once some of you learn to love thy neighbour i.e England, then you can call your selves non-bigots. Until then I think my post hits it right on the nail in relation to Aik Salmon and co.
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Compactor,

Barcelona 14/09/2008 19:20:15
#300

The RC population were given their own education system under the Catholic Emancipation Act in 1918 because the RC Church in Scotland ASKED for it NOT because the big ,bad Protestants wanted it.

Let's get that sorted right now
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aficionado de ?,

BARCELONA 14/09/2008 19:22:31
314 and pre 1918 ?
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 19:23:25
314 please give me your thoughts on my other points in post 300
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 19:31:36
314 so who did the english welsh n irish ,rest of world ask? or is the rc church in scotland responsible for rc schools all over the world serving the 1 billion catholics worldwide 1 /5 of the worlds population
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Choose a nameDr_Joseph_Phd,

Tynescos 14/09/2008 19:37:01
#300

1. Boruc is trouble. Trouble in his own country, trouble in Scotland. Players from both Celtic & Rangers are subject to religious abuse from supporters, most do not react. It's unprofessional.

2. Things like blessing or pretending to play a flute to incite a crowd are just silly. It's unprofessional.
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 19:44:15
320 mabe so , BUT does it make it right, do u expect to suffer this in your workplace and if no would you put up with it or just turn a blind eye to act profesional , and ye boruc took a drink ,can you expand on your meaning of trouble pls? have u ever done that? boruc should hire the best lawyer his wages can afford and counter charge the sfa for falling to make his workplace a safe and healthy enviroment ,another point the hibs goalkeeper does a similar religious act before the goal but i,m not sure what his religion is but not a word on it from anyone ? can anyone tell me what it is?
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 19:45:37
314 awful quiet sir/madam
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 19:47:29
320 boruc blessed his goal long long before he had the mis fortune to turn up in scoland ,should he have stopped to apease the bigots?
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 19:49:19
#321 re.the Hibs keeper.

He does not turn to face the opposition fans,stare them down for about 5 secs and then do some jazzed up blessing.
He is an embarrassment to the true believers of his faith.Many players come to Ibrox and bless themselves and get no abuse.One of Rangers new players done it yesterday with no problem.
Boruc is only looking for someone to bite and some of the young drink fuelled guys will
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 19:53:17
320 never mind that pre 1918 ? why did they ask for seperate schools , u were at ibrox ah well that explains everything, oh so why when boruc will play in the champions league go to the man u alborg villarreal end will there fans not give a jot EXPLAIN PLS?
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 19:54:42
#315

If you want to go down that road,some of the very first acts of anti-catholic abuse after the arrival of survivors of the famine came from Scotlands already-resident RC community.The type of Catholicism practiced in Ireland was very far removed from what was practiced in Scotland.Almost the same shift as is happening now with the Polish influx into Scotland
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 19:57:25
#327
Why did Paul Gascoigne get abuse for mimicking playing the flute at Parkhead.Why did he not get abuse against Steaua Bucharest when he done it in front of their fans
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aficionado de ?,

BARCELONA 14/09/2008 20:00:21
sorry son you are deluding youself and it all there for everone to see, if thats what you beleive then fine i,m sorry for you ,you are the type jack mcconnell was trying to rid from this great country of scotland ,goodnight remember and say your prayers you sure need someones help ,god bless
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Choose a nameDr_Joseph_Phd,

Tynescos 14/09/2008 20:09:30
327

I haven't said a word about schooling. Went to an RC school myself.

Also pre 1918 I wasn't even born, never mind at Ibrox.

In response to your 321 comment: Almost every footballer takes abuse. It isn't nice, but it won't go away. Most footballers act professionaly and do not rise to the bait.
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Pro Libertate,

Not the far side of the moon - but with educationa 14/09/2008 20:10:44
This type of debate always ends up as a circular argument, so congratulations to Jack McConnell for pushing everybody’s buttons again.

I'm sure that most freethinking people would like to eliminate sectarianism, but sadly for some of those who are professing this very thought, it is not the case.
I'm sure that catholic schools do not intend to split the community, but that is exactly what they do.

I do not have a problem with people worshiping their own god, but it should be everybody’s choice to do this in their place of worship - NOT AT SCHOOL!!!!

To give any credence to Jack McConnell’s latest rant, you would think that the merging denominational and non-denominational schools would have been a plank of his administration? Wrong!
Perhaps a motto could be: ‘Free thinking people are difficult to control, so programme them early’

Just more smoke and mirrors from wee Jack and his cronies from the north Lanarkshire clique of Scottish Labour.
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 20:16:23
sorry 331 that was ment for the intolarent bigot compo, ye i,m not against you on the boruc 1 but when you get personalities like cantona ,e to ,and boruc they can,t hold it back ,reacting to bile is not as bad as dishing it out in the first place ,it makes me laugh when boruc sticks his finger up at the baying mob and they all cry foul ,its just a bit silly don,t you think ,thats my view but i am ok with yours ,its just a case of it takes all sorts
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Galalean,

Mission 14/09/2008 20:30:27
It's the leaders in religion that should attempting to stop the bigotry, not the politician. How can people all over the world believe that only their God & their killing for the cause can be normal...
You can't all be right holy & good. Really when you are alone ask yourself, are you really a good person?
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 20:31:05
very clever tact 335 but he,s to silly to get what your saying but i await with intrest what he has to say,i must say that you are correct ref gassa and artur but thats our problem not there,s our society stinks
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14/09/2008 20:37:25
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dsm68,

glasgow 14/09/2008 20:39:28
lets all feel sorry for mr boruc according to prof devine in the insight section under the banner of the shame game. Mr boruc has every right to bless himself, i dont have an issue with that, it is his inconsistency in doing such stupid stunts like show a picture of the pope on his T shirt at an old firm game then doesnt do it on the worlds 3 biggest stages...the world cup, european championships and the champions league games he plays in shows to me a childlike mentality to wind up rangers supporters which has nothing to do with his proffesing faith but in having a pop at the supporters of rangers fc. mr boruc needs to be sat down and told that if he really does want to promote his faith then do it to a larger target audience than an old firm game. although mr devine wont see this wit his head buried in the green grass!! mr boruc has no intentions of ever promoting his faith at any major turnamnet as it will not allow him to annoy rangers supporters. he deserves what he gets its not eductaion mr boruc needs its wisdom
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 20:40:43
The Act Of Settlement is as much anti-Protestant as anything else as only an Anglican can be Monarch so the specifically anti-Catholic accusation is risible.

As for the morally wrong sectarian apartheid in our education system, we didn't tolerate this on skin colour in South Africa and it shouldn't be tolerated here either because of religion.
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Upandunder,

14/09/2008 20:42:20
Typical socialist politicians. All point-scoring, spin and not a lot else.

God help an independent Scotland. What a choice we'll have: In the red corner, the party of the won't-works and can't works, and in the yellow corner, the kilted version of the party of won't-works and can't works.

Scotland is peering into an East Germany-style abyss, one where we'll pay vast taxes in order to allow the lazy to sit on their drug-addled erses.
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jimboo,

the wemyss 14/09/2008 20:43:56
225# cunning
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aficionado de ?,

barcelona 14/09/2008 20:45:07
340,
did or did he not [artur ] bless hiself before he came to scotland?, or did u see in the imagionary shoot magazine in poland an article 8 years ago under player profile - artur boruc legia warsaw
your biggest ambition in football - to bless myself at ibrox to annoy the intolarent bigots

well did you? lol
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14/09/2008 20:46:19
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Pro Libertate,

Oh no! Not the Spanish Inquisition! 14/09/2008 20:47:50
Don't be fooled by this. It is all about controlling the masses (pardon the pun) and not wanting to lose the contol over them.

Hell and damnation of your soul for evermore is a mighty powerful threat. That is, unless you are a free thinker and fall off the flat end of the earth first.
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 20:50:55
The same people defending Boruc's "right" to publicly express his religious beliefs would presumably be the same folk who froth at the mouth on seeing the Protestant Orange Order doing the same. And don't mention Orange coloured football shirts either...it brings on hysteria for some strange reason.
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 20:53:12
#344

Can you not have a reasonable debate without being arrogant about it.The post you replied to sums up my sentiments too.

There are bound to be Celtic fans out there who see Borucs double standards when it comes to publicly showing his faith
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14/09/2008 20:54:18
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14/09/2008 20:58:58
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 20:59:03
#341

In actual fact in the United Kingdom ,MORE Protestants are discriminated against than Catholics by the Act of Settlement.
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14/09/2008 21:03:50
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 21:06:44
# 349

A Presbyterian, Methodist,etc, CANNOT be the Monarch...only an Anglican as he/she will also AUTOMATICALLY be Head of the C of E.

Therefore the Act is NOT specifically anti-Catholic legislation.

Also, the O.O. is open to all Protestants of whichever denomination and colour so the "fascist" accusation is down to poor education.
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14/09/2008 21:11:31
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 21:14:34
#347

Therein lies the problem the OO has to this day.Whilst the Order is for protestant christians only it does not promote anti-Catholicism per se.
There are bigger anti-Catholic bigots outside the OO who would ,in fact ,not be allowed near an OO.
If the OO could just get rid of the hangers on who are looking on from the pavements then the more accurate face would be seen.The amount of charity work done by private lodges is quite unbelievable and never goes reported for the reasons you mention i.e.

How the OO are perceived by other people
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 21:18:01
# 355

On annointment,The Monarch is automatically Anglican due to his / her accession to Head Of The C of E. Complaining that this is "bigoted" is as daft as saying why isn't there a Protestant Pope.?

As for the Orange Order, in Ireland itself the organisation are the guests of honour by the Irish Prime Minister every year for the annual Orange Garden Party in Dublin. Bigots. ? The Teasaoch doesn't apparently think so.
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iainscott_8,

London 14/09/2008 21:25:58
This is a filthy move coming from Scottish Labour!!! How many years have they ruled in Scotland? It was they who refused to stop the sectarianism where it begins - in the schools!!! It was they who allowed the divisive Rangers-Celtic garbage to go on and on for decade after decade.
Why are they bringing issues of religion up now? Is it because the Independence Referendum is getting closer? Mark my words. Both Scottish and English Labour will do ALL they can to divide the Scots on the basis of religion. The old divide and rule on Scotland's religious fault lines has never failed in the past.
It is going to get VERY dirty between now and the referendum and British Unionism's hands are very dirty where religion is concerned.
We need to hammer religious bigotry wherever it rears its ugly head but let us not kid ourselves about the evil motivations of those uniounists who now suddenly are raising religious issues in Scotland.
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Pontificatus Maximus of Avignon,

14/09/2008 21:28:35
#357
You are caliming that the monarch "automatically" becomes Anglican because of the annointing! Even if the monarch was a muslim? What p!sh!
Besides the "head" of the church is Jesus Christ. The monarch is in fact "Supreme Governor" of the CoE.
But it really IS time the whole rotten and bigoted system was abolished. The repulsive and divisive Act of Settlement should be thrown on the scrapheap and the CoE disestablished.
A positive spin off would be of course the lack of raison d'etre for the bigots of the Orange Order when the Act of Settlement is dumped.
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Upandunder,

14/09/2008 21:41:10
Sectarianism is a class issue, not a religious one. Almost all the worst RC and Protestant bigotry in Scotland and Ulster is among the poorer socio-economic sector, hence the foul abuse at Rangers-Celtic games. I'll bet the worst culprits among those clubs' support come from working class backgrounds.

How many anti-IRA songs does one hear from Scotland fans at Murrayfield when we play Ireland? None! It's the opposite in fact, we drink with and joke with the travelling Irish fans. And do we drink! So no blaming alcohol.



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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 21:41:28
#360

The Monarch is both Head and Supreme Governor of the C Of E and must be Anglican and nothing else.

Also, without the descendents of the O.O. at the Boyne and before in 1688 we wouldn't have the civil, religious and democratic freedoms we have today. The O.O. should be congratulated for reminding everyone each year of this.
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 21:41:42
#357

The Taoiseach has just given a helluva lot of money to the Boyne memorial site which is a location prominent in Orangeism.Apart from being a decisive battle in the history of these islands and ,arguably Europe-given the aspirations of Louis XIV,the Good Friday Agreement has provisions for the long-term future of the Ulster-Scots traditions of which Orangeism is a large component.It co-exists peacably in Donegal,Monaghan,Cavan and Dublin as well as other parts of the world.
Indeed many Orangemen have fought against fascism (80,000 from Canada alone in WWI ) so to call it fascist,as another poster said, is way off the mark and unfair
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14/09/2008 21:48:41
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 21:52:09
# 363

Well said.!

The woeful ignorance surrounding the Orange Order is not surprising given the utter embarrassing nonsense written about it in the low end of the Scottish tabloids. As stated earlier, the Irish Government itself holds the O.O. in the highest respect and esteem and donates thousands of Euros to the upkeep and maintenance of Orange Halls in Ireland.

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14/09/2008 21:55:03
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 21:58:54
Pax

To be pro-Protestant, as the wonderful and colourful O.O. parades are, does not automatically mean anti-Catholic, just as the Afro-Caribbean Notting Hill Carnival does not signify anti-white bigotry . You should get yourself down there in Glasgow every year when the Big Walk is on, you might just enjoy it as much as the tourists do. In fact, Glasgow should be paying the O.O. for this guarantee extra income every year.
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14/09/2008 21:59:18
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 22:03:06
#364

On the contrary,as has already been explained,at grass roots level,the OO is not bigoted per se.
Being a member of a protestant only organisation is no more bigoted than the Catholic Police Officers Guild or the Muslim Police Officers Association or being told not to apply for a teachers post at an RC school because your ,errr, not an RC !

But what is anti-Catholic bigotry.The police would surely shut the organisation down if it displayed such traits.It's not the members or the bands or the music they play.The OO has publicly stated that it backs police action to arrest those drunk-fuelled idiots of the F T P brigade at the side of the parades.The membership of the Order is behind the OO leadership on this one
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:04:46
Pax

Public expressions of religious belief are the sign of a healthy, well -balanced and free society, just like Boruc's and the O.O's.

As for the Pope, he is the Head of a nation state, just like GW Bush or Gordon Brown so public criticism is norml and not be fussed over.
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14/09/2008 22:08:09
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14/09/2008 22:09:49
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:13:33
Pax

If the O.O. expressed "rancid bigotry" against Catholics why would the Irish Government host parties in its honour.? Get educated.....
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14/09/2008 22:14:28
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 22:18:08
#379

Thats not enough for me to go on PV.

If you have serious issues with the OO ,then take them to the police or your MP.

On the subject of MP's,a prominent MP,Frank McAveety has recently visited the OO offices.He gave a glowing report.He sees where the order is trying to progress

Or is your experiences with individual members who do not toe the OO party line
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14/09/2008 22:18:41
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:19:01
Pax

" Widely perceived as sectarian" by who exactly apart from the low end of the Scottish tabloids.? I'll ask again, if the O.O. are bigoted why do they attract every race and creed on the planet and why would the Irish Government host parties in its honour.?
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14/09/2008 22:21:44
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14/09/2008 22:23:15
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:23:42
Pax

Maybe you've had a bad experience near an O.O. parade and its tainted your view of the organisation.? I'll say again, go to next year's Big Walk in Glasgow and see it through unprejudiced eyes alongside the thousands of tourists also participating. You may just surprise yourself.
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14/09/2008 22:24:28
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:25:34
Pax-

The CoS Committee got their information from where exactly.?
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14/09/2008 22:26:05
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:27:37
-Pax

Why would you wish to join.? You say you don't like the O.O., even though you know nothing about the organisation. Be more open minded....
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14/09/2008 22:29:55
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14/09/2008 22:31:27
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:32:06
Pax-

I asked where the Committee got its information in order to form a negative consensus opinion on the O.O.?
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14/09/2008 22:32:09
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14/09/2008 22:32:45
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:34:26
-Pax

I couldn't join other "sectarian" organisations specifically for others of their own personal beliefs such as Opus Dei, Islamic Foundation, etc, so why get upset if you can't join the O.O. due to yours.?
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14/09/2008 22:36:37
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:38:41
-Pax 413

Most likely the same reason I can't join the Muslim Foundation or Opus Dei. Dem's the rules as they say....
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14/09/2008 22:39:26
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Compactor,

14/09/2008 22:40:33
#386

PV,The "harsh reality" you speak of is that Glasgow recently elected its first non-RC Lord Provost in 40 years.GCC is run,by a fair share (if not more),by those of the RC faith.
I believe most of those in the planning dept can be seen "en masse" at a certain football ground in the East End every other weekend.Glaswegian Protestants regularly vote in MP's they know are of the RC faith

There is no harsh reality for any particular faith in Glasgow.James McMillan and Bishop Devine have shouted from the rooftops but the facts would appear differently as analyzed by Prof.Bruce in "Sectarianism in Scotland".
The truth is that a Protestant is as likely to experience it as much as an RC in one form or another.

Anyway,I'm off but I've "enjoyed" the debate.There was no vicious slagging ,noising up just people with differing viewpoints
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:41:56
-Pax 418

See 416.
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Monty Python,

14/09/2008 22:43:16
Time to go for me also. Enjoy what is left of the night everyone.
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Wee Beardie,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 22:51:51
I'm all for taxpayers' money supporting faith schools.

Can Eddie Barnes tell us when we can expect the government to start supporting Protestant schools?

I'm not sure whether we should have just one Presbyterian educational establishment; or perhaps some Church of Scotland Schools, some Wee Free schools, some Methodist and some Baptist.

What do you think?


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livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 23:12:51
Went down to Morrisons tonight for bread and milk for the morning. They were busy taking away the piles of unsold Scotsman on Sunday.
Why do you wonder so few potential readers are taking this chip wrapper?
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Pepper Pig,

London 14/09/2008 23:14:11
The Act of Settlement actually makes a lot of sense. The Act was set up to ensure that the Monarch remained head of state of the UK. If that person was Protestant, he/she would remain unanswerable to anyone. If they were Catholic, they would shuffle down the pecking order behind the Pope, the leader of the Catholic Church. And so The Pope would be the ipso facto head of our country. A man who does not believe in people using condoms. My, that is sensible.
And also, The Catholic Church also involves itself in selective processing. The man elected Pope has always been old and white and male. At least some the monarchs of the UK have been female, let along younger.
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livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 23:26:26
402 Pax Vobiscum
The introduction to the authorised King James' English bible:
"...So that if on the one side,we shall be traduced by Popish persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us,... ...whom they desire to keep in ignorance and darkness,..." etc?
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livilion,

livingston 14/09/2008 23:39:06
469 Pepper Pig,
What about Pope Joan who reputedly gave birth during her papacy?
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pardos/PopeJoan1.html
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John PM,

Edinburgh 14/09/2008 23:49:22
This is desperate stirring rubbish. The SNP are under no obligation to continue any Labour initiative if they feel it is not effective.

McConnell should resign as he has accepted a job in Malawi. His opinion is irrelevant and since he couldn't stand up to his own London based party leadership why does he think we should be forced to listen to his biased pathetic whingeing now, particulaly when it is predicated on a blatant lie.

The SNP are probably more opposed to sectarianism than Labour are because it is the continued union which benefits from dividing 'n' ruling Glasgow between Brits vs Irish. Those who sign up to either side will never put Scotland first ergo the status quo ie unionism will prevail.
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Matt there,

somewhere 15/09/2008 00:04:54
It is THIS kind of trumped-up twaddle that tells us exactly WHY Jack McConnell is an ex first minister.

Jack McConnell claims to be committed to anti-sectarianism. But he isn't really!

How so? If he was really committed to anti-sectarianism, he would not use it as a mere stick to poke the current first minister with.

Calling Eddie Barnes: Wake up! Time to stop taking the worms from New Labour.
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livilion,

livingston 15/09/2008 00:08:22
477 Col. Blimp­IV*,
The Marsh arabs in Iraq are reputed to be practicing the closest form of 'christianity' to that probably practiced by Jesus before the Roman genocide of the Israelites prompted by the reaction to the martyrdom of St James, Jesus' brother and immediate successor.

The Roman catholic church founded 300 years later by the Emporer Constantine, shortly before his death, was an amalgum of many Roman ideas and those of the early christians.
It may not be too far fetched to suggest that Joshua ben Joseph, Jesus the Christ, might have had some issues with the new religion that bore his title.
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The Moog,

Edinburgh 15/09/2008 00:08:36
This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with football. If only supporters got behind politics the same way they get behind football then we might see some change in the way the uk is run!
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Udith Fonseka,

Clynder 15/09/2008 00:10:28
This article and most of these comments are so far behind the times and so unimportant. There is a large group of people in Scotland who are against RC's but they are not Orange!!!!
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Arthur Teak ,

15/09/2008 01:19:09
That's interesting but unsuprising, I have written adetailed rebuttal of #359s diatribe including factual indformation to countermand his or her inventions. I'm being told I can't post it becuase of allegedly offensve language when. in fact there is no offrnsvie language contained in my reply.

SoS, being, selective in its censorship? Well, her's some news for your esteemed organ The Hootsmon will probably be around long enough to anounce the departure of Brown and the end of the Labour government but I doubt it will be around for another five years when, I fully expect Scotland to be an independent nation.
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Willie Macleod,

Wick 15/09/2008 01:34:23
This is not about First Ministers past or present and what they have done or could do,

It is about all of us.
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Ursus arctos horribilis,

15/09/2008 04:10:45
Re The " British" Act of Settlement of 1701 this was actually passed before the Union of Parliaments in 1707 and was therefore purely English legislation.

It was subsequently applicable to Scotland by being incorporated into the Act of Union in 1707 -even although it openly discriminated against Presbyterian Scotland.

That is why it will never be repealed -don't you think Blair would have done so if he could-it is just too difficult and would have enormous constitutional implications-eg The Act of Union would also have to be dissolved-now there's a thought.
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voltaire's janny,

15/09/2008 08:56:32
Religion out of schools = sectarianism out of impressionable minds. Take yout gods and stick 'em; whether his spokesmen are the humourless old f@rts that would ban sex lest it cause dancin' or the misogynist virgin worshipping paedo-apologists, I don't care. Get ye hence.
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karinxxx,

15/09/2008 10:49:15
so everyone who is against roman catholic faith schools will therefore also be against the new hindu school opening in london.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7615539.stm
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dsm68,

glasgow 15/09/2008 14:07:27
344, again my issue isnt with people blessing themselves im all for seeking guidance from God and asking for protection when playing footbal if that is what they are asking God that is!! but my point is mr boruc isnt interested in promoting his faith to a world wide audience if he was he would surely promote his faith and love of an elected pope on the bigger stages at wc, euros and cl games that he plays in, he is no better than the scum who sing sectarian songs from both sides and then go to church/chapel on a sunday kidding themselves on they actually want to make a difference in erasing bigotry. it simply wont happen. mr boruc needs wisdom not eductaion. his actions are no better than flute mimicking idiots or people praising cowards who hide behinds masks.
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adam murray,

Windmillhill 15/09/2008 15:21:09
Mcconnell really is a joke When sectarianism spewed from the mouth of his drunken brother-in-law towards 2 schoolgirls -what did Joke say?Was he up on his soapbox condemning it?No sirree -a strange silence on that one from the great campaigner
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JohnBowes,

15/09/2008 23:12:44
So, what has Jack the Lad said about apartheid in our schools?

What has he said about the child abuse within the RC Church and the fact the same church protected paedophiles?

Jack Lad ought to think about sin more generally, and keep his pants on. Yes indeed, he betrayed his wife and family. SO why should we trust him?

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JohnBowes,

15/09/2008 23:15:21
Remember Jack Lads son having a party in the Government House in Edinburgh? Free drink for his son and his son's spoilt brat middle class college boy mates.

Remember the idiotic kilt Jack Lad wore? Boy did he look "weird".
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JohnBowes,

15/09/2008 23:17:29
Jacl Lad focused on football. WHY?

Simple. He was a cheap opportunist. AND STILL IS. A publicity seeking DIC*.
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JohnBowes,

15/09/2008 23:22:11
Bigotry conferences? How much free drink and so on was given to the people who attended them? Freebies galore eh?

Bigotry? Yes the RC School demands that 5 year old are separated at school. Apartheid = segregation.

Why not have separate public toilets and so on Jack?

WHY have separate schools?

Ethos? So why did the RC Church hide/protect paedoo priests and monks? Ethos and morality? Eh? How many of th epaedo priests - I refer to those who were convicted of this crime - sat on School Boards?

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Phil1,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 18:12:07
Well something must be right about the article judging by the huge number of comments on sectarianism - its a pity that half of them are from the type of bigots Jack, Jock and Joke was trying to deal with.

He may have better luck in Malawi next year - they have their own Section 28 for him to concentrate on getting rid of.

 

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