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Crisis sparks new move to oust Brown

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Published Date: 17 May 2009
GORDON Brown is facing the renewed threat of a leadership challenge this summer in the wake of the expenses scandal.
Health Secretary Alan Johnson is "seriously considering" a challenge to Brown which could be triggered in just three weeks if – as expected – Labour bombs in the European elections, say senior party sources.

A new poll today shows that two-thirds of voters believe a general election is required immediately to draw a line beneath the expenses scandal.

Labour is bracing itself for a backlash in the European elections on 4 June which, say Labour MPs, may act as the catalyst for a change of leadership.

Allies of Johnson say he is still "reticent" about whether to take on Brown, but he has growing support for a challenge.

With the expenses scandal having taken the party to a new low in the polls, his supporters say that, without a change of leader, they are facing a wipeout of "historic proportions" at the next election.

Labour is now only three points ahead of the Liberal Democrats. A senior figure said: "This is literally about saving the Labour party now. If we don't do anything, this might be the moment when Labour goes the same way as the Liberals in the 1920s. We might not be back in government for 50 years."

Johnson has emerged in recent days to become the only alternative leader. Supporters say only he stands a chance of winning back voters' trust.

Another Johnson supporter said: "One of the issues till now was the lack of an obvious candidate. The fog has now cleared and that makes it very, very dangerous for Gordon Brown."

The MP said that the trigger for a challenge would be if Labour won less than 15 per cent of the vote in the European elections. A challenger would require the support of 20 per cent of Labour MPs. "If we get 15 per cent, I suspect Alan would get the names he needs at a stroke," said another.

Johnson is understood to be coming under growing pressure to make a move. One friend said: "The question is whether he wants to do it."

The moves to back Johnson come as a poll last week found that only 22 per cent of voters said they would back Labour in a Westminster election – the lowest figure ever. The Conservatives are on 41 per cent, with the Lib Dems on 19 per cent.

Johnson, former leader of the Communications Workers Union, was appointed Health Secretary by Brown in 2007.

Supporters say his tough background – he was orphaned aged 12 and started work as a postman – would contrast well with the privileged upbringing of Tory leader David Cameron, boosting Labour's core vote.

Johnson has said before that he is not interested in the top job. In 2007, when mooted as an alternative to Brown, he said his chances were akin to "putting the Beagle on Mars – a nice idea but doomed to failure".

But last weekend, asked if he would go for No 10 if Brown were forced to go, he declared: "I'm not saying there are no circumstances."

The Prime Minister will this week aim to draw a line under the expenses scandal, as campaigning for the European elections steps up.

He has ordered a review of all MPs' claims and last night he warned that any ministers guilty of rule breaches would be axed.

"The bottom line is that any MP who is found to have defied the rules will not be serving in my government," he declared.

But he is widely seen to have been playing catch-up with Cameron, who has set up a panel to decide which claims by his MPs are inappropriate and should be repaid even if technically within the rules.

Meanwhile, some of Labour's biggest donors were last night reported to be abandoning the party, which is nearly £19m in debt, in protest at the expenses' row. Today's poll for BBC2's Daily Politics programme suggests voters believe the only way to draw a line under the scandal is to head to the polling booths.

The ComRes survey found 65 per cent of voters thought an election should be called as soon as possible. A similar number (64 per cent) said they believed politicians "named and shamed" in newspaper revelations should be forced to quit.

However, the poll suggests the controversy may not badly affect turnout at next month's local and Euro elections.

Though 28 per cent said they were less likely to vote as a result, 25 per cent said they were more eager to do so.

In another poll, Labour slumped to neck and neck with the UK Independence Party in the Euro vote. BPIX put the party's expected share at 17 per cent – six points down in a week. The Tories took the same hit, dropping to 30 per cent, while UKIP surged seven.


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17/05/2009 00:04:59
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Ewan Randall,

17/05/2009 00:05:46
Though this would normally be considered to be political suicide this close to a general election, have the Labour party not already committed political mass suicide already?
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17/05/2009 00:17:50
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17/05/2009 00:28:28
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Observer,,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 00:33:10
3 Jesus Ewan that sounded dangerously like an opinion. You're right, unless Cameron gets caught having sexual relations with an orangatang and charging the Fees Office for the Hotel room, the Tories are in come the next GE.

So all this stuff about Brown is futile.
6

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 17/05/2009 00:40:51
There it is for all to see the Westminster thieves and “Don’t blame it is the system that’s at fault”


Yes but who put that system in place?

Who tried to block the freedom of information act from the Westminster expenses discloser?

Ok then what odds will we get on the turnout for the European election not reaching 20%?
Remember that they are even worse with their clocking in and scarpering?

So no mandate there then; Brown will have to go to the “Palace” and we will then be able to elect all the “white suits” to the new Westminster.



7

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 17/05/2009 00:46:53
A man died and went to Heaven.

As he stood in front of the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind St Peter. He asked, 'What are all those clocks?'

St. Peter answered, 'Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone on earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie the hands on your clock move.'

'Oh', said the man. 'Whose clock is that?' 'That's Mother Teresa's', replied St. Peter. 'The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie.'

'Incredible', said the man. 'And whose clock is that one?'

St. Peter responded, 'That's Abraham Lincoln's clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abraham told only two lies in his entire life.'

'Where's Gordon Brown's clock?' asked the man.

'Brown's clock is in Jesus's office. *He's using it as a ceiling fan.'*
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17/05/2009 00:49:40
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For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 17/05/2009 00:50:29
Just like Bendy Wendy and the labour Party turned on Hurricane Jeck, so the Labour Party and the Scottish Press will eventually turn on Maggie Brown - but not until it is certain he is going - no one wants to be seen as first.
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17/05/2009 00:53:24
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17/05/2009 00:54:57
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Brianwci,

17/05/2009 00:55:38
#10 Jeeemy: Very Good Jeeemy. lol
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17/05/2009 00:57:29
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Steve A.,

17/05/2009 00:58:37
Could this be the first onionist free Sunday thread ?

I haven't seen any since the latest polls have been oot !

Labour on the GE poll 20%

WOW !
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17/05/2009 01:01:18
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Scotindy,

Los Angeles 17/05/2009 01:16:09
Roll on REFERENDUM DAY so that SCOTLAND CAN LEAVE THIS DISCREDITED, DISHONENST, THIEVING, LIEING SHOWER OF CROOKS BEHIND. We MUST GET OUT OF THIS UNION WITH england or she will pull us down to thier level. INDEPENDENCE AT ANY COST. It's TIME, LADIES and GENTLEMEN AT THE TROUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17

Ronald Penman,

GLASGOW 17/05/2009 01:20:35
COURAGE

BRAVERY

THE SON OF THE MANSE

MY MORAL COMPASS

WE WILL NOT WALK ON THE OTHER SIDE

ITS A WORLD RECESSION

ITS A WORLD EPIDEMIC

I HAVE SET UP A COMMITTEE

WE HAVE TAKEN DECISIVE ACTION

WE BRITISH

BRITAIN CAN BE PROUD

THE LADDIE IS NOT FOR TURNING
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17/05/2009 01:25:02
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17/05/2009 01:28:37
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SW5,

17/05/2009 01:34:36
You cannot have Independence........and swap it for the EU.......Independence....means just what it says....COMPLETELY :)
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 01:39:06

Does one think that the government will put up with this scandal for much longer!?

Listen and hear me out,

The Biggest Brother of all time, is about to step in and use muscle!

Press restrictions, and the sealing of lips will take place this week, like our Banks it will be downplayed, and we will all be made 'Mutual'

It very quickly becomes History, Brown may even survive it!

One thing is for sure, Labour will not be shifted, because 'Mice' as all the other Political Party's are these days, hide in that wee hole, in the 'Skiting'!


22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 01:41:00
error correct ~24,

'Skirting'
23

Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 01:41:08
Did any Leeboar MPs make any claims for a whetstone or two by any chance?

re23

Och take the medicine and stop being so miserable to quote one of Lieboars very happy Glasgow MPs
24

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 01:41:38

Rufus! @#26,

Correct!


25

Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 01:43:39
I am just having a toast to the demise of Tavish - most fun I have had in years, oh what is this the Grey man has been a little bit bit less than well?

Oh it just gets better.
26

Blarney,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 01:44:11
Well well well, as disgusting as it is we couldn't have wished for better.
Roll on the referendum!
Me thinks a wee landslide is coming the SNPs way.
27

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 01:44:18
Brown has no contenders!, fortunate for him, all the rest,...
....'Pus$y-Foot-About'

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Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 01:45:51
Newsflash!

Gerbils caught trying to board plane out of country
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17/05/2009 01:49:00
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 01:49:03

RufusTeaFirefly ~34,

More like,..'Never'!

Mice everyone else act and have become like!

It would not have been the case in Thatchers Days, She would of Kicked her wellies, into power!

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17/05/2009 02:01:39
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SW5,

17/05/2009 02:06:27
Comment@39 Steve......oh really, i find it acutely shameful what goes for intellect in here when i see a lot of the comments. you point fingers at puppets that are selling our country out. Around the world there is a long over due awakening going on. There are people who are now understanding the SYSTEM for what it is and the various occultist groups involved......and better than that......they are cracking the codes and data bases of each and every individual involved in the deception
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17/05/2009 02:13:46
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17/05/2009 02:25:40
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17/05/2009 02:33:09
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madrab,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 02:33:19
Give us a General Election now.
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17/05/2009 02:35:12
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17/05/2009 02:42:49
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17/05/2009 02:48:46
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Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 02:51:20
RE51

Must be Lieboar or Fib Dum? Looks like the will have to rotate thier leaders in Scotland again. You know that neither of them has any sense of irony let alone humour.
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17/05/2009 02:51:51
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Steve A.,

17/05/2009 02:58:22
54
Sparky

Don't keep him/her going i was in a great mood aboot labours demise before Mr / Mrs paranoia turned up!

Know whit a mean?
48

Colkitto,

River Clyde 17/05/2009 03:00:21
Latest YouGov poll !

POLL PREDICTS SNP LANDSLIDE OF MPS !

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/101585/Poll-predicts-SNP-landslide-of-MPs

SNP 37 seats, Labour 12, the Lib Dems eight and the Conservatives just two.

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17/05/2009 03:02:09
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17/05/2009 03:02:58
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17/05/2009 03:04:23
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Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 03:05:06
re56

will Lieboar be able to find 12 candidates?
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Steve A.,

17/05/2009 03:05:29
57
Sparky
:)
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Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 03:07:00
re 57

it is badger baiting that is illegal - there is not a law against troll baiting yet?
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17/05/2009 03:07:26
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17/05/2009 03:07:33
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17/05/2009 03:14:58
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Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 03:16:06
re66

And in the days following the demise of the Red Raith the world will come to an end?
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17/05/2009 03:21:14
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Steve A.,

17/05/2009 03:21:48
68
If its numinous then i will have to decline your offer.

But something tells me your gonnay tell us anyhow !

:(
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17/05/2009 03:22:21
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17/05/2009 03:28:22
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W Smith,

Middle East 17/05/2009 03:32:18
"..Supporters say his TOUGH BACKGROUND.. would contrast well with the priviliged up bringing of Tory leader David Cameron.."

It would also "contrast well", Eddie, with the privileged upbringing of the following Labour politicians who were educated at private school eg Tony Benn, Tam Dalyell, Tony Blair and Alistair Darling.

Our Eddie Barnes has a problem with Tories who go to private school but not so-called socialists who go to private school.

Never read Animal Farm then Eddie?

67

W Smith,

Middle East 17/05/2009 03:35:11
Eddie Barnes forgot to mention Alan Johnston, ex-Trade Union leader, supported the undemocratic block vote.

As I understand it the block vote was also used by the STUC to push Ian Gray into leadership.

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17/05/2009 03:38:37
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Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 03:53:28
So who is going to put Our Dear Leader out of his and our misery???

TV should be good later today.


NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - SORDID LOSERS
70

Iainbroch,

17/05/2009 03:57:02
re 77

I wonder if Glen is applying for a leave of absence. I would love to see the sick look on his face!
71

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 04:00:58
#78

Aye, he's been shunted onto Radio Scotland. There are quite a few in the BBC and on the Hootsmon staff looking a bit foolish in their slavish support of the thoroughly discredited, disgraced New Labour Sleaze Party.
72

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 06:36:26
This expenses disgrace carries with it a number of unexpected consequences. Politics and politicians are finished. Democracy (if it ever existed) is finished. As a result, the prospect of independence is further away than ever.
73

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 17/05/2009 06:48:33
80 WUM

An interesting view - but not original, is it? You must have heard yesterday's discussion on Radio Scotland. I thought the the SNP people were particularly downbeat. However, I agree with you.
74

Advance Alba,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 06:59:43
we should apply our minds to sensible effective ways to put a stop to this in the future, and to save our democracy. I would propose that every single MP be subject to re-selection by their local parties, and I mean all registered party members. Secondly, all MPs expenses should be posted on the web on a monthly basis. Thirdly, any MP found guilty of dishonesty by an independent audit group, should be expelled from Parliament and barred from ever standing for public office again, banished as being unfit to hold public office. And Parliaments should sit for a defined number of years, say 4, and the power of PMs to pick the election date should be abolished. The Green Book should be binned and salary and expense policy given to an indpendent group, non negotiable. And lastly, the Sovereign should either be given the power to dissolve Parliament and call an election, even against the advice of the PM.
Much less than that will fail to retore public confidence in Parliament.
75

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 07:14:41
This expenses scam, allied to the Tavish Scott Capital Gains Tax issue is a godsend to the SNP and the independence cause.

With the degree of odium and scorn now being heaped upon the institution of Westminster, all of a sudden this opens up the prospect of more and more voters embracing the idea of consigning the very place to the annals of history.

With the most recent YouGov opinion poll showing the SNP winning 37 seats at the next general election the signs for the future are indeed optimistic.

Toblerones all round!
76

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 17/05/2009 07:35:39
#36
RATS.
Guido Foulkes!!!! Where are you when we need you??
Consider the alternatives, MUGABE, MARKOS, PERON, CHAVEZ, CASTRO and dare I say some others (Struggling along on their $120million plus pay out from Freddie Mac or was it Fannie May. Does it matter which?)
Comrade Napoleon was right. I must work harder. (Sigh!!!)
77

Walter Ego,

Durness 17/05/2009 07:51:18
History shows that you get one punch to knock out the establishment. The establishment has been stunned but not knocked out. Beware.
78

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 07:51:47
#86 Lewis,

New Labour Sleaze and, when it was Old Labour Sleaze, was always riddled with nepotism and cronyism

This headline from the MOS say it all really.

"Michael Martin to quit, but not until after next Election to install son in 'hereditary' seat and claim £100,000 golden parachute"

79

Fitba Krazy,

17/05/2009 07:53:41
It's all a load of mince, the greedy self servers will still be around. It's a genetic disorder that's been around since before Merlin came up the Clyde in a banana and started up Pertyck Thistle. It's no goany go away soon either. This is all delusional fairy dust. Just go out and look at the sky and see the truth. We do not matter at all in the grand scenario, and what is planned by the pseudo-elites is jist merr kerrapp so that they can think they run the show. That's why they are all pointing nuclear warheads at each other. Didn't you realise? But if Hibs beat Celtic it could all maybe change in an instant. Aye right.
80

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 07:56:24
#86 Lewis,

And on the subject of nepotism and cronyism, this from The Times,

"THE new Labour establishment was decisively rejected last night in a bid to parachute the daughter of one of its grandees into one of its safest seats.

Georgia Gould, the 22-year-old daughter of Lord Gould, the polling guru and party strategist, was trying to be chosen as the parliamentary candidate for the Erith and Thamesmead constituency in southeast London, where Labour’s majority is 11,500.

Her campaign was backed by senior figures including Tessa Jowell, the Olympics minister, and Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair’s former director of communications.

However, a backlash by local activists saw Gould, a part-time student who works for the Tony Blair Faith Foundation, beaten by Teresa Pearce, a local candidate who has served on Bexley council. Pearce won 109 votes from party members eligible to vote, with Gould taking 55."
81

Ubi,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 08:05:43
I will not be fobbed off with rule changes.

I demand a general election.
82

Fitba Krazy,

17/05/2009 08:13:07
#90 Jimmy Le Pie.

Oh, so that'll make a big difference then?

Well spotted anyhow. Orrabest.

83

Kenny A,

17/05/2009 08:20:36
My grand daughter could do a better job of running the Uk than what is presently in charge. Big Arrrragh the pissed up siberian snowman certainly could have.

It is long overdue for parliment to be scrubbed out, demolished and started again in a new format.

The phrase I would rather be a Slave than a King if I kept my self respect springs to mind.

Politicians have no respect unless it is when the look at themselves in the mirror.

84

John S,

17/05/2009 08:33:04
#90:Jimmy Le Pie, the part I found interesting in that article was about postal ballots
Gould’s supporters were said to have broken party rules by encouraging voters to register for postal ballots.
Suspicions were raised when about a third of the 279 local party membership eligible to vote registered for postal ballots – a far larger proportion than normal.
The hustings had initially been due on April 18 but were postponed after an official at Labour’s London headquarters found that a ballot box containing more than 70 postal votes had been broken into and the voting papers ripped up.
85

John S,

17/05/2009 08:49:56
#95-Wardog salus populi suprema lex esto
Yep because there was no mention of the £20 corkscrew or £2 for a Toblerone chocolate in the article.
86

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 08:52:17
I think everyone can see (except Comrade Broon) that Comrade Broon is finished.

The only detail to be decided is where and when.

When he goes that'll signal the end of New Labour Sleaze (at least in its present form) for decades.

The General Election will result in total wipeout for the Comrades, which was certain BEFORE the sleaze scandal broke.

New Labour Sleaze have been rumbled by the electorate for what they are - a bunch of self serving career parasites, who care for themselves first, then their sleaze ridden party. The voters are merely incidental!


NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - NEPOTISM AND CRONYISM TAKEN TO A NEW LEVEL.
87

gus1940,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 09:01:51
I have asked this before and shall ask it again.

If a sitting MP ascends the dizzy heights to a cabinet position and is rewarded with a grace and favour residence:-

On what grounds can that MP continue to claim expenses for the London residence occupied prior to the award of the G & F residence?

I am thinking in particular the claiming of cleaning expenses by a ceertain leading politician.

Can somebody with a better understanding of the rules set out in The Green Book please enlighten me on this matter.

88

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 09:02:31
95 Wardog-the Unionist guns are alive and well! Brown should resign and call an election-that would be the 'honourable' thing to do. He wont of course as Labour would literally be annihalated at the pollsat this point in time. But on the subject of 'Unionist Guns' Wardog, this isn't really a Unionist-Nationalist issue is it? But you guys spin everything thus!! I am much on the same page as youwith my disgust at the MP's and their antics. I also think that AS and his merry band may indeed be less tainted by the way. He has to keep as good and clean and fresh to retain his appeal to the scottish electorate keeping that one goal in sight. If that goal is ever achieved then the SNP might just end up like all the rest of them.
Or maybe not?
89

FTH22inarow,

17/05/2009 09:03:15
For the first time in my life I agree with Norman Tebbit, do not vote for any of these scheisters.
90

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 09:05:25
96 John S-what do you pay for a Mars bar in the Uk nowadays? I remember when they were 6d and Spangles were threepence!!
91

Observer,,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 09:21:10
Wilhelm ! Where have you been ?
92

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 09:22:36
105 Col Blimp1V-thanks Blimp-I like to keep my eye in against Meths.
I dont think the Euro elections are all that significant in guaging UK opinion. Are they not really just'play play' stuff allowing protest voting?
Poor old Gordon Brown! I dont think he is a bad chap-heart is in the right place but what a sorry mess. I would have thought that Labour's troubles would have been opportunity ideal for the LibDems-they have a youthful and charismatic leader-why are they languishing also?
93

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 17/05/2009 09:33:38
I've said it before and I'll say it again - the main cure for present ills is to boot out the incompetent, lying, treacherous, sleaze-ridden morons that comprise the Labour Party New or Old, doesn't matter they always screw up. And presiding over the shambles the main man who needs to be removed from office is Brown, a man so ill-qualified to run a country that even Michael Foot couldn't manage this disastrous performance and he was in numpty Big League.
94

Fitba Krazy,

17/05/2009 09:40:14
#104 Wilhelm

How art thou me ol son. Ah huvnae seen ye aboot fur a wee while. Huv ye been awa in yer Heinkel Junkers motorised hing glider thingwybob then?
95

The Strategist,

17/05/2009 09:44:48
I think it is time for the people to appeal to the Queen to dissolve parliament immediately.
96

The Creature from the Back Lagoon,

17/05/2009 09:53:30
I see Charles is on the boards again!
Well, I'll need to get his double on here to set things straight!
97

Desmo,

Lumphinnans 17/05/2009 09:55:55
#100 Geoff

The whole point of Independence is that if, as you speculate, the SNP do end up as sleaze-ridden and corrupt as the rest of them, then we, the Scottish electorate can vote them out of office without having to wait decades on English voters agreeing with us.

You do not need to be a Nationalist to acknowledge this because it is simply a consequence of the numerical superiority of the English electorate within the UK.

I suspect, however, that every politician in Scotland is already aware of all of this and their behaviour will have to bear it in mind.
98

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 09:56:35
111-the last time the Queen, in the form of one of her Governors general disolved a parliament was in Australia in the 70's when Governor General Kerr dismissed Gough whitlam(I think it was he). Such an eventuality in the UK would be highly unlikely and would provoke a constitutional crisis not seen since the time of the Lord protector OC!!
99

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 10:03:43
113 Desmo-whether independent or no I think Scotland would face the samelogistics as the rest of the UK in removing an unpopular or corrupt administration. I was not implying that the SNP would inevitably go the way of other politicos-they could continue to surprise but then again so could Camerons Tories. One thing stands out for me from my perspective here in SA-whatever you might think about Labour etc your political democracy is able to sort these problems out. Here in SA our freedoms are far more vulnerable. Corruption,nepotism and autocracy may yet overwhelm us.
100

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 17/05/2009 10:09:08
I'm not interested to here the labour Party is on 17% for the EU support in the UK. I'm only interested in what they poll in Scotland.

The Labour support needed to be broken by two things:
1) a massive public loss of confidence
2) an alternative party to vote for other than the Tories or LibDems.

I'm looking forward to the labour support in Scotland going below 25%.

Using the Electoral Calculator: (I don't know how accurate it is)
http://tinyurl.com/phttme
Using Tories on 18% and Libs on 17%, the turning point for SNP/Labour is 35%/29% at that point both get 23 seats.

With SNP/Labour at 36%/28%, the SNP get 31 seats and Labour get 16.

With SNP/Labour at 39%/25%, the SNP get 40 seats and Labour drop to 3rd place behind the LibDems.

From that point on there is a resistance level, so don't expect to see Maggie Brown lose his seat unless there is a total collapse in Labour in Scotland.

If the three unionist parties each get 20% and SNP on 39% then the seats will be:
SNP - 40
Lib - 11
Lab - 5
Con - 3
101

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 10:09:20
#87 "History shows that you get one punch to knock out the establishment. The establishment has been stunned but not knocked out. Beware."

The punch has not landed yet. Shock has still to turn to anger, and then vengence. The opportunity to hit the establishment hard will come at the elections in June.
102

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 10:14:16
Contrary to many opinions here, I think we will have a big turn-out in the European elections. People stay away from the polling booths because of apathy not anger.

We are in unchartered waters, so the outcome is impossible to predict. Imho, people really want to punish politicians - what better way than to vote their partys out. A record low vote for Labour could trigger a chain reaction, resulting in a general election later this year - and that is what everyone (except for a few guilty mps) really wants.
103

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 10:19:25
# 111 - I agree. It's about time the Queen earned her generous allowance and acting likje a real head of state. DISSOLVE PARLIMENT NOW - THE PEOPLE WILL SUPPORT YOU.

#114 I think we are fast-approaching a constitutional crisis.
104

Desmo,

Lumphinnans 17/05/2009 10:19:59
As much as it sticks in my throat, I`d have to agree with you about the Scottish Tories possibly springing a few surprises in future.

At least they have some able individuals among them which is more than can be said for the ranks of the blinkered and the unthinking that make up the Labour group at Holyrood.

PS. Why don`t you cheer yourself up and head out to Kyalami for the day ? It`s raining at Le Mans so you might enjoy the best racing on the planet today.
105

Desmo,

Lumphinnans 17/05/2009 10:25:09
Sorry Geoff. That comment,#120, was for you.
106

Russell M,

Stirling 17/05/2009 10:26:47
How many MPs must be sacrificed to secure Labour's continuing hold on government leadership? Two? A dozen? The whole lot?

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." Do we really want change or just revenge for the pain each of us is suffering personally?

The government, bureaucracy, and mainstream media will do all they can to insure the later. While I suggest what's really needed is the first.
107

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 10:32:06
Where is Our Beloved Governor General, Comrade Murphy during these turbulent times???

Is he in the bunker with Comrade Broon??

Is he plotting Comrade Broon's downfall??

Is he rehearsing his excuses for his expense claims??

Where are you Murf???
108

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 10:33:45
120 Desmo-I'm in durban Desmo so Kyalami is a little too far for a day trip! Still mourning the loss yesterday by our local Rugby team the Sharks to the usurpers from"Transvaal".
109

The Ayrshire Bard,

17/05/2009 10:42:03
The cost of replacing Brown is too much to bear. It would involve yet another Ex PM on massive pension, full security and chaffeur driven car for the rest of his or her life even if they are in the post for only a few months. Brown must be kept in situ until the next election. If he has any honour he would dissove parliament and let the electorate decide on his fate as well as that of the many MP's who have been revealed as self-seekers in the past couple of weeks.
110

English Voice,

17/05/2009 10:44:41
...Last July..proposed reforms including an end to the second-home allowance and external audits for all expenses. The reforms would also have abolished the "John Lewis list" of household items and property improvements that MPs could claim for.

But in a free vote, MPs rejected the moves. Brown was among several ministers who failed to show up for the vote, amid accusations that Government whips had privately orchestrated its collapse.
-------------------------------------------------

New Labour, bold leadership!
111

TWC,

exLabour 17/05/2009 10:46:03
123 Jimmy Le Pie,

Yup he has not been mentioned at all, neither have the Balls. Maybe they are clean or they may be the juiciest.
112

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 10:49:37
125 Ayrshire Bard-The incumbent party and PM will always take more flak than the opposition when these situations arise but it should be remembered that this is a Parliament(s) wide and Party wide issue-including perhaps some from the SNP!? Also not all of this expenditure is unlawful according to the rules as they stand-maybe distasteful and dissapointing but if they have used some of their generous ENTITLEMENTS ,well...

Also there ARE some good men from ALL parties.
113

English Voice,

17/05/2009 10:51:18
128. Geoff

great post. The SNP, by writing and administering the expenses system, are clearly to blame. Their votes for reform of the system are pure puffery. It is reminiscent of the SNP responsibility for the FSA and banking regulation.

New Labour, We've Got What it Takes to Shift the Blame!
114

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 10:55:43
129 English voice-thanks EV. Watching Sky news debate with Adam boulton on the issue-v.interesting!
115

brownlie,

17/05/2009 11:06:03
129 English Voice

You forgot the rest: "We've got what it takes to shift the blame but not what it takes to blame the shifty" was the message at the morning briefing.
116

English Voice,

17/05/2009 11:07:41
131. Brownlie

yes, quite right.

New Labour - We're on the take!
117

Vivas,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 11:22:52
Its not all bad news for Brown. He's still getting some celebrity supoort from la-la land...
---------------------------------------------------

Lily Allen will vote for Gordon Brown at election despite MPs' expenses row

Despite the controversy Mr Brown currently faces following The Daily Telegraph disclosures of MPs' expenses, the 24-year-old singer has said she will continue to support the beleaguered Prime Minister.

"Of course I'll still vote for [Brown]," she said, "I can't not vote Labour." She described Brown as "a nice man" and said she could never become a Tory, although she does say that the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, is "a cool guy".

Allen also admitted that she is tackling the recession by spending money. "I haven't lost any money, because I'm terrible. I spend, spend, spend," she said. "There are loads of Chanel jackets in my wardrobe. I am single-handedly keeping the economy going," she said.
118

Johnnyf,

Scotland/ Never Never land 17/05/2009 11:34:07
#85 How dare you link Castro with Mugabe et al.
The man was a hero to his people and still is, where else in the world can you be a doctor and not be extortnate university fees. Read real history and not your U.S.led inventions.
To the other matter, nobody is perfect here, what is a general election gonnae do now. Cameron looks the whiter of the lillies but when we examine the other issues like M.P.s not turning up at the Commons, if you watch T.V. there's nobody there most of the time, M.P.s with other jobs I beleive Cameron is still a major PR consultant, I think the sleaze factor will become greater with revelations of their actual salaries outwith the M.P. salary.
As a life long Labour supporter I can't understand why this whole sordid affair is downing the government further, I think if you check the Telegraph's site there are, at the moment, more Tories on the list, Lib Dems are pitiful, You know how does Clegg have the gall to criticise in the wake of his "expenses" claims.
I think that the M.P.'s who have so much outraged the public, legitimate or not (according to the Green Book regulations) should all be sacked. I'm sorry to say that this includes Gordon Brown.
I was going to head this comment "Oh NO Not Alan Johnston" as a Labour supporter, I don't trust the man, think he doesn't have a personality or image.
Ed Milliband would get my vote any day. I don't know why the SNP supporters are getting any joy out of this either, Salmond's as corrupt as anybody else and don't expect a Tory government to deliver anything for Scotland apart from expecting to sleep with the bride before you do Husband. Always total ba*****s.
119

nova albion,

17/05/2009 11:36:03
119 Her Majesty has already read Brown the riot act.
120

Richard Lionheart,

17/05/2009 11:38:42
Is this not becoming a bit repetative? We all know what is going to happen.

First Scotsman says moves to oust Brown.
Second Brown reshuffles cabinet.
Third Brown relaunch
Fourth Brown bounce
Fifth see First.

None of them have the guts to oust Brown!
121

Stan Butler,

17/05/2009 11:42:30


There will be no challenge to Brown.

The Government will go its full five years.

The expenses scandal (brought to you by the dyed in the wool Tory Telegraph and presented to cause maximum damage to Labour) will gradually cease to be the talk of the steamie.

The new rules, which come into force in the summer, whereby all MPs have to be completely candid about their second jobs, will play to Labour's advantage and to the Tories' disadvantage.

The economy will probably start to improve.

As the election gets closer people might actually question what POLICIES the Tories actually have. They might also wonder whether a bunch of public school, Bullingden club, multi millionaires led by someone whose only previous job was as a PR consultant are who they want to rule the country.

In Scotland the SNP will doubtless come up with another pathetic rhyming couplet to encapsulate their ambitions. Such is their contribution to the body politic.

122

nova albion,

17/05/2009 11:48:20
137. The Telegraph exposed as many tories as labour.
123

smokey joe 1,

17/05/2009 11:53:08
137.
Then you woke up.
124

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 11:56:09
Morning Stan,

Have you had any time to think about the truly 'socialist' New Labour Sleaze Royal Mail privatisation plans???

You know the one where they're going to need the Tory votes in parliament to get it through???


NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - TNT BOARDROOM PLACES FOR THE COMRADES!
125

Media at One,

17/05/2009 12:04:03
Britain needs an Englishman at the helm - Blair educated in Scotland and thus almost as Scottish as most and Brown the Scot have undoubtedly been the most appalling leaders Britain has ever known.
Salmond is another failure - Scottish politicians are ridiculous, Britain needs strong leadership and we aint going to find it in a Scot.
126

Cabbage'n'Ribz,

17/05/2009 12:07:56
I can't understand the clamour to call a general election because Labour MP's are corrupt.
The whole system is corrupt and it needs to be changed, unfortunately those that would change it are politicians.
No party has tried to make political gain from this because they know anyone that shouts will be targetted for inspection.
None shall pass.

they heap their shame on us.
127

Johnnyf,

Somewhere I thought was semi sensible. 17/05/2009 12:15:30
#137 Stan
The best post I've ever seen on this site populated by prospective Tory voting w******s who will regret their vote "within the twelve month", especially if they live in Scotland. We have been punished enough by the Tories, yeah Thatcher did the hatchet job on us , again, Cameron's speech at Perth the other day shows the contempt they hold us in "respectfully" FU** **F.
I am was tempted to vote SNP at the European Elections, in all fairness, they've done a good job, don't like Salmond, Sturgeon iffy but Salmond's greedy budget of a meagre £400 a month on food, even in Parliamentary recess has put me off. Strangely, there has been much talk of his salary in both Holryrood and Westminster, but what of his income as a Racing tipster.Does he still do that? I hope not because he's due me £549 exactly in sh*t tips.
128

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 12:20:50
Just watched that odious creature David Milliband on the politics show.

Squirming and slithering like the snake he is. At least the interviewer gave him a hard time unlike our resident clown, Glen Campbell, who seems in awe of New Labour Sleaze.
He's going to look a right t!t in a wee while!!

Elections soon I think!!

NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - POSTAL VOTE FIXING PERFECTED!!
129

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 12:23:15
#142 Media at One,

Britain needs to split into its component parts and England can choose whoever it wants as government.

Hope you choose wisely!

NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - A NEW FRAUD EVERY DAY!
130

James.com,

17/05/2009 12:25:45
Labour are 23% in the Polls ; 21% being Postal Votes!
131

Media at One,

17/05/2009 12:38:06
An independent Scotland under the SNP will be a socialist state - Not sure I am all for that, seems a little backward and against the grain in terms of what our ancestors fought for.
132

Stan Butler,

17/05/2009 12:49:20
#148 Media at One

'An independent Scotland under the SNP will be a socialist state'


'Any notion that an independent Scotland would be a left wing country is delusional nonsense' Jim Mather SNP MSP.


133

Johnnyf,

Neverneverland Previously called Britain 17/05/2009 12:50:04
#145 Jimmy La Pie
Are you of French extraction James?
Yes David Milliband is odious, no doubt whatsoever.
Elections soon?
Who can you honestly vote for and who can honestly and uncomprimisingly carry out your ONE silly wee vote in Parliament? We now need a total weed out of candidates.
Brown, Blears,Cameron, F******g Osborne(totally one not short of a bob or two but not 20 shillings to the £),all the Lib Dems(Clegg's pontifications make me sick, the man's as guilty as anyone (has he actually thought out what this personally means to him, £23,000 less a year. But nobody really listens to the Lib Dems and he can rest assured he will still maintain his privilleges.)
Oh aye, Alex Salmond, £400 a month on food, even during recess.
134

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 13:03:23
152 Johnny,

No I'm not of French extraction, I'm of Scottish extraction. I used to be called Jimmy the Pie, but Paddy O'Poison, the famous Hootsmon censor/statistician/car salesman/Union enforcer got me banned from using Jimmy the Pie for daring to criticise our Irish friend. I was lucky, I could have had a visit from his friends in the Met!!

The SNP will be getting my vote every time. Nothing that has happened recently has given me cause to doubt the leadership.

New Labour Sleaze are finished for decades thanks mainly to their mantra that the Party is the most important thing before all else, including decency.

The Tories are an irrelevance as are the Libdums.


135

Johnnyf,

I wish I Wiz never reading this Sh*t MAN 17/05/2009 13:08:27
#149 £0.01 or a million grand it's all a gigantic rip off at our expense. This is not about politics it's about greedy ba*****s from ALL of the parties.
#148 Do you think William Wallace fought for capitalist policies? Do you think he thought the Poll Tax imposed on Scotland by Tory Guru Thatcher was fair? Do you think that, when your pit's been closed down and all your family has worked ther for 200 years and your unemployed, that the last Tory government's resident fascist, Norman Tebbitt's solution was to "Get on your bike and look for work". The next (hopefully not Tory Government will be totally worse than that shower of C**P). They are all privilleged "lads" do you really think that they CARE ABOUT YOU?
136

The Ayrshire Bard,

17/05/2009 13:16:28
#128 Geoff. Sorry, don't understand your post. The article is about the possibility of Brown being replaced and my comments were purely on the huge cost of having another PM who is likely to be ousted in less then a year.
137

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 17/05/2009 13:26:12
Why doesn't Brown simply understand we all hate him as an unelected incompetent creep?
138

Johnnyf,

Coming back to Scotland 17/05/2009 13:29:04
#153 Hey Jimmy your human.
As a semi-regular writer to this page I have watched your posts and thought oh eh., but, yes that was a thoughtful answer to my last post, and I appreciate that.
Colonel Blink or whatever, is there anything wrong with being honest, and by the way I'm standing as the moral candidate back home here in the SNP led constituency of ********* I can't divulge the actual constituency, but I'm trying to be elected under the name of Baron G Osborne 666 the 19th, so you will probably find it and SMEAR me with being a moralist. Got the white suit MA-AAN and the stigmati in baith hands.
139

nova albion,

17/05/2009 13:30:37
The Tories are an irrelevance as are the Libdums. Ofcourse they are jimmy! David Cameron is only going to be the next PM. In case you didn't know that out ranks Salmond and the salty nuts party!
140

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 13:33:24
160,

Remember the last Tory UK government and how Scotland took to them. It just brings independence that little bit closer!!
141

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 13:36:33
Strange, Gordon Brown is no longer reminding us how he saved the planet lol.

It will cost Labour dearly to replace him. That is why he has survived for so long. However, even his close "friends" in the party are now begining to worry about the cost of keeping him as leader before the next election. There will be a leadership election this year - he may just survive, but if he does, Labour will be wiped out in England in 2010.
142

,

17/05/2009 13:37:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
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143

Johnnyf,

Reallity 17/05/2009 13:40:04
#157 We don't all hate him. If the world economy hadn't gone pear shaped, you wouldn't be saying this. Could you really imagine Osborne being in charge of the British finances right now. The man's not in control of himself, watch him in parliament!
Anyway, somebody from Drumnadrochit, unless your a kitchen porter or horse groom, must be a Tory voter in the first place, so your hatred of Brown must be inbred.
Anyway, he's got to go as an MP for ripping us off.
144

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 13:46:49
Every party is damaged by this, but Labour will take by far the most flak. Therefore, by default, the other parties will do relatively well at the next election (unless a large number of high-profile independents stand).

Labour will suffer disproportionately for a number of reasons:

a) Labour snouts have been deepest in the trough (although there has been stiff competition from others). Guilt.

b) Labour is the party of government, residing over this sorry mess. Responsibility.

c) Labour politicians have betrayed the ordinary, hard-working people of this country (the very people they claim to represent). Betrayal.

The Labour party will soon be in opposition, and remain so for at least 20 years. Scotland will be independent long before that time.
145

Johnnyf,

Planet Sanity 17/05/2009 13:49:09
#163 By What the BNP?
That's, I'm afraid all that's left down there.
Unless you all want to come to Scotland, plenty of room up here. You can get a shell of a disused cottage for, oh, let me think, £125,000, send the cheque to .............., London.
146

nova albion,

17/05/2009 14:00:50
162.England will manage just fine without Scotland, pity Scotland won't manage without England!
147

smokey joe 1,

17/05/2009 14:02:18
Comments are now allowed on the speaker of sleaze and concealment.
148

TWC,

exLabour 17/05/2009 14:12:43
169 nova albion

If you were right then England would be desperate to give us Fiscal Autonomy so that they wouldn't have to subsidise us... But they aren'r at all keen on the idea which tells you the opposite is the case.

Fiscal Autonomy would put the Independence off the agenda yet the Union parties won't even consider it.
SLAB should be screaming out for it before the Tories get in so that Scotland can continue to run it's own business.
149

Mèths,

17/05/2009 14:21:34
Hi Kimba!
150

Mèths,

17/05/2009 14:23:15
170

Where?
151

Nelson51,

Newcastle 17/05/2009 14:26:54
Coming soon-EXPENSES-The Movie.
152

Johnnyf,

The Falklands 17/05/2009 14:30:53
#162
Why then did you always feel the need to invade us, control us (Cameron reiterated that this week at Perth), deprive us of our basic human needs, sha*g our women, claim Celtic's European victory as a British, similarly Lulu's victory. I will stop short of "our oil" because that's an SNP fantasy. But,....drive on our tyres on our invented roads, wear our coats(waterproof),kilts etc.,watch our T.V's, and there's so much more.
Ironically, I watched on BBC last night Great British composers, Handel and Holst, Germans, you people down souff, aint the be all and end all. And,... on a rather salutory note. Scottish football managers are your most successful ever. I won't quote in case it opens wounds. It was our king who ruled you James V1, although you could have kept him and we deigned to join you in 1803.
We really don't need England, but we need our borders secured through the U.N., cause you'll try to invade us again!
153

keystone,

Wisconsin USA 17/05/2009 14:35:26
What a shining example of what Mr. Blairs NEW LABOR is this criminal enterprise. NEW LABOR means on the TAKE and on the MAKE. Mr. Blair pocketed his fortune, and then cleared out. Regretfully for Mr. Brown he does not have Mr. Blair's instincts for clearing out after fortune making, and now has the task of captaining the near criminal enterprise that is the Labor party as it goes to where it deserves to go, to the very BOTTOM.
154

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 14:41:54
Fascinating story in the Telegraph about Hazel Blears.

The photo of her and Our Dear Leader is a cracker!

"Gordon Brown has been warned that Hazel Blears, the Communities Secretary, has become “dangerously out of control” after featuring in the MPs’ expenses scandal and facing reports she will be sacked from the Cabinet. abinet colleagues fear that Hazel Blears will “not wait to be sacked” and may instead resign, aiming a public broadside at the Prime Minister which will further undermine his position.

The Sunday Telegraph has also been told that she has threatened to “bring down” another Cabinet minister with her if she feels she is being forced out.

Last week Miss Blears said she was paying back £13,332 in capital gains tax (CGT) on the £45,000 profit from the sale of a London flat in 2004.

At the time she had declared the property to be her second home with the House of Commons and her main residence for tax purposes – meaning she was not liable for CGT."

Like ferrets in a sack!!!
155

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 14:43:07
#177


Here is the link to that photo!! Have a look.

http://tinyurl.com/ojzvyb
156

Gtj,

17/05/2009 14:49:16
Please, please, please Gordon fight your corner and stay to the death.

You are the SNPs greatest champion.
157

smokey joe 1,

17/05/2009 14:52:24
178.
She looks as if she just wet herself.
158

Johnnyf,

Outside your house 17/05/2009 15:04:58
#176
What the f*** are you doing commenting on our domestic policies. Put the U.S. in order first. There's lots of big issues to be sorted out there, like how to stop being a megapower without brains behind your srategies.
159

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 15:24:27
Nick Clegg is right. Politicians should not be profiting from second homes.

Politicians like John Swinney who is currently sitting on a £95,000 profit for his Morningside Flat. He has already claimed over £34,000 from the taxpayer for mortgage interest.

Politicians like Andrew Welsh (SNP) who is currently sitting on a £30,000 profit for his Powderhall Flat. He has already claimed over £29,000 from the taxpayer for mortgage interest.

Stewart Stevenson (SNP) who has made a claim for a second home of over £18,000.

Richard Lochhead (SNP) who has made a claim for a second home of over £17,000.

Fergus Ewing (SNP) who has made a claim for a second home of over £25,000.

Alex Neil (SNP) who has made a claim for a second home of over £18,000.

Adam Ingram (SNP) who has made a claim for a second home of over £10,000.

As you can see, when it comes to feathering your own nest, the SNP MSPs are up there with the best of them.

160

nova albion,

17/05/2009 15:26:44
171. Now why would brown give England her independence and put himself and the rest of his countrymen out of a job,they'll be out soon enough.
161

Observer,,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 15:28:25
182 Wow it took you until 15.24 to find that story ? You're a bit slow quite frankly I read it last night.

You missed out the other MSP's.
162

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 15:35:15
Hey Rufus,

The petition to save Our Dear Leader is up at 90!!!

Some of the worthies to have signed are

R U Cumminquiatleigh
Ivan Taplazmateevee
Angi N Stugoodfrum
Don Thay-get-it-we-elect-MPs-to-represent-us-not-steal-from-us
U R A Tw at
Juan Ayed Nobjoky
Dee Selleck-Brown
Jay Lemmall
Dee Moat-Hogg
Letha Meatcake
Drea R Ottenmassajcherz
Ivor Motekneads-Kleen
E R Mintrudelavache

The 'other' petition is at 59,400


New Labour Sleaze - WE LISTEN, WE IGNORE, WE KNOW BEST!
163

,

17/05/2009 15:35:38
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Reason:
164

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 15:37:21
182

Surely a profit is only a profit when the hoose in question is sold???

My hoose would be worth £2 million if somebody was daft enough to pay that!!
165

Pavla,

Irvine 17/05/2009 15:38:22
The spectre of a BNP mep in Scotland should worry all of us irrespective of party affiliations.If Labour continue to slide in the polls will their supporters vote tactically to prevent BNP success or open the door to the unthinkable?I really don't want my children or grandchildren to be Peat Bog Soldiers in some new British reich in the future.Don't laugh many in Austria and Germany did in the late 20s and said Hitler and his party would never be in government.The atmosphere at the moment mirrors much of that period.
166

,

17/05/2009 15:38:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
167

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 15:41:52
187 Jimmy Le Pie,17/05/2009 15:37:21
182
Surely a profit is only a profit when the hoose in question is sold???
My hoose would be worth £2 million if somebody was daft enough to pay that!!
===================================================
Great post. It is impossible to put a realistic valuation on a house isn't it?

If you believe your house in Niddrie is worth the same as John Swinney's flat in Morningside then you have deep rooted psychological problems.

TIP: Stick to petitions and cutting and pasting articles from other newspapers. That is your forte.
168

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 15:43:31
Rufus,

It was at 55,000 two weeks ago but why let the facts get in the way of typical New Labour Sleaze manipulation of the figures.

New Labour Sleaze - Fiddling the figures!
169

Johnnyf,

Somewher over the Rainbow 17/05/2009 15:46:16
#182
Yeah Nick Clegg, Good man claimed his £23,000 expanses consistantly. No hoper, I Hope.
#183
Racist. We'll rattle your windows and shake down your walls - again.
170

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 15:48:04
Rusus,

As you may have noticed hoose prices are dropping like a stone under the expert guidance of Our Dear Leader, Comrade Broon. If the houses in question went into negative equity would you be shouting so loud??


If this was a proper newspaper rather than New Labour Sleaze's Press Releases then I wouldn't need to copy the real news.

But rest assured I'll be keeping up the real news on here until I get fed up.

NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - WE SHOULD CONTROL THE MEDIA.
171

,

17/05/2009 15:51:13
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172

Mèths,

17/05/2009 15:51:21
Rufus creature

You were right all those weeks ago - Hamilton to stay up.
First time in their history they've remained in the Premier for 2 seasons. Go Rufus & his crystal ball.

OK - here's the tie-breaker. Who's going down? Inverness or Falkirk?
173

,

17/05/2009 15:52:28
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174

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 15:58:15
Hey Rufus,

You should read the Hootsmon's story about Gorbals Mick then read the Times version.



"Michael Martin’s future as Speaker of the House of Commons looks likely to be decided tomorrow after both Opposition parties made clear they felt his position was untenable.

Nick Clegg became the first party leader in modern political history to call for a Speaker to resign, describing Mr Martin as a defender of the status quo and obstacle to the reform of Parliament.

William Hague, David Cameron’s effective deputy, said that the Speakership was “in crisis” and urged MPs to hold a vote of confidence in Mr Martin within days.

Downing Street have not commented, but the Government also seems to be cooling in its support for Mr Martin."

NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - "I didn't come into politics NOT to get what I'm owed!"
175

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 16:03:35
Meths, guaranteed Falkirk!
176

smokey joe 1,

17/05/2009 16:04:23
197
Jimmy Le Pie,

Hopefully he will get what the voters think he,s owed.


177

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 16:04:36
Jimmy Le Pie.

Michael Martin has to go. Everybody knows that. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
178

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 16:06:18
Rufus,

Is it just the SNP claiming that annoys you??

I know most Sleaze Party activists still can't accept that the SNP are the government in Scotland.

To quote Lard Foolkes "they're doing a good job, deliberately"

NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - DESTINED TO RULE SCOTLAND FOREVER!
179

smokey joe 1,

17/05/2009 16:13:50
More Labour SLEAZE.

http://tinyurl.com/q67s8t

You cant turn a page without finding Nu Labour sleaze and corruption plastered all over it.
180

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 16:15:03
201 Jimmy Le Pie,17/05/2009 16:06:18
Rufus,

Is it just the SNP claiming that annoys you??
=================================================

Of course not.

However anybody reading these messageboards, which let sface it are infested with numerous nasty nats, would think that the SNP were whiter than white.

Clearly they are just as bad as anybody else and I am simply pointing that out.

Question for you, is it ok for the SNP to screw the taxpayer, or is it only a problem if Labour does it?


181

The Scotchman,

17/05/2009 16:20:21
#188 You forget to mention the Olympics. London 2012 may well mirror Berlin 1936 by then too.

#202 Liebore - "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better, mmm mmm, Betty!"

182

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 16:24:59
Rufus,

No politician should screw the taxpayer.

The claims coming out this last week or so are breathtaking.

Even more so when you see the attempts to cover them up.

My thoughts on the SNP are that any MP abusing the system should be de-selected. And as a party member I have already stated my opinion to head office. That's all I can do.

But this whole sorry saga has been dominated by New Labour Sleaze.

To quote Gorbals "I didn't come into politics NOT to get what I'm owed!"

He did his best (spending a fortune in taxpayers money) to prevaricate, stall and shred.

He seemed more upset by the release of the data than the content.


NEW LABOUR SLEAZE - DO AS WE SAY, NOT AS WE DO!
183

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 16:28:11
#205 Yes Jimmy, as hard as it is for me to say this....................... I agree with you.

But don't let it happen again.

:-)
184

Johnnyf,

In the m middle of a quandry. 17/05/2009 16:31:03
#202 remember the Tories still control the media.
#204 Scary but I am thinking along these lines too. We don't have a history of extreme politics but, yes the time is ripe.
185

,

17/05/2009 16:42:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
186

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 17/05/2009 16:42:59
Has Angus MacNeill resigned? Rumours up here.
187

Johnnyf,

In the m m midle of a quandry. 17/05/2009 16:44:54
PS. Despite a lot of comments on this page and others, The Scotsman is not by any shot a Socialist paper, if you think that it is, your politics must be well to the right.
188

Marga,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 16:54:24
Off topic, but interesting - has anyone heard the details about the West Bromwich Building Society rescue package?

Telegraph: The FSA is understood to be trying to engineer a rescue of the West Bromwich building society by offering the group to white-knight bidders.

Coventry and Yorkshire building societies are reported to be in talks with the regulator about a takeover of West Bromwich.

Birmingham Post:

http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/2009/05/17/fsa-seeking-buyer-for-west-bromwich-building-society-65233-23644296/
189

The Scotchman,

17/05/2009 17:03:06
#210

1. "Change Your Life in 7 Days" by Paul McKenna - Brown (Liebore)
2. Chauffeurs to job centre and Celtic park - Gorbals
3. Jellied Eels - Rosindell (Conlaxative)

(NB: 2 and 3 are true)
190

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 17:24:30
"Meanwhile,in NEW LABOURS decade, billionaires wealth quadrupled, and 60% of them paid not a penny in income tax..........
This weeks income figures are so shamefull that NEW LABOUR MP's are left gasping. How can inequality be higher than under Margaret Thatcher,and the highest since records began.
The verdict on Gordon Browns tenure of the Treasury is as bleak. Was he the worst Chancesllor, with the worst economic advisers?
Replay the hubris of his every budget speech and shudder!
There is no excuse for the way he(Brown)has let this inequality swell in the good times".

Polly Toynbee, NEW LABOUR suporter and Guardian hack,
writting last week .
191

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 17:42:59
#211 Johnny,

New Labour Sleaze can by no stretch of the imagination be said to be 'socialist'.

Privatising the Royal Mail just one example (with Tory votes to force it through!)
192

PointOf View,

Bonnie Scotland 17/05/2009 17:52:36
19 Scotindy,
Totally agree with you. HOWEVER, let’s gain our Independence but be careful not replace one master with another dark master. In other words lets ensure we keep out of the European Union. That dark master will rule us from Brussels in ways you couldn’t imagine.
193

Stan Butler,

17/05/2009 17:53:23

There are 350 Labour MPs.

There are 7 SNP MPs.

194

Stan Butler,

17/05/2009 18:07:10

Of the 7 SNP MPs 1 has been at Westminster for less than a year, 2 have been there for less than 4 years and 3 for less than 8 years.

Given there are so few of them and given the short length of time they have been there I think they've done quite well in the fill your boots culture of Westminster.
195

Geoff,

sa 17/05/2009 18:15:09
156 Ayrshire bard-sorry AB-the thread tends to wander and my comments become more general. I suppose what I was trying to say is that maybe we should not be so hard on Gordon Brown as he is just one amongst many sinners. If he were to call an election now he knows Labour will be annihalated. I think he may resign but more likely he will be forced out of office by his own people. The cost of looking after him would be a relatively small burden to bear in the great multi billion pound scheme of things.
196

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 17/05/2009 18:25:03
General Election Now!!!
197

Johnnyf,

Scotland 17/05/2009 18:33:40
#229
General Election Now.
... and which party is fit to govern?
Another waste of our money.
198

morris,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 18:34:46
226

You might be better advised to address the reality of Labour showing at 17% 19% and 20% in three polls within the last week ! Any party who sink to that level , cannot ever expect to form a government again.
Changing the leader will not save Labours skins. Only A General Election followed by a shake up within the Westminster parties to the point that they are unrecognisable will help them now.

Scotland has two choices now only.

1)Secession from the United Kingdom.
2) Vote Labour and elect an opposition ad infinitum (and I am assuming they will be second,when third or fourth is now possible).
That can only be somewhere between futile and stupid.

Anybody who has not yet grasped THE PARTY IS OVER,they never will!

I think Brown will prove to be the last ever UK Labour PM.
Even with Scotland they are finished!
199

Stan Butler,

17/05/2009 18:41:51


AS Chicken-licken was going one day to the wood, whack! an acorn fell from a tree on to his head.

"Gracious goodness me!" said Chicken-licken, "the sky must have fallen; I must go and tell the King.".......
200

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 18:48:36
Tell me Stan are you a Sellick Unionist Labour man?
201

morris,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 18:51:32
236 Okay !Anything to oblige

83% of the UK have no confidence in Labour.

Hey you are correct, Go Spookums
It does have a certain something about it !

Any relation to The Tartan Spartan by any chance?
202

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 18:53:53
Implosion. Not only within Labour but within Westminster also.

Great - most deserving.

This is truly a great time for politics.
203

Johnnyf,

17/05/2009 18:55:29
#234
"I think Brown will prove to be the last ever UK Labour PM."
What absolute and utter nonsense. We could have said this about the Tories 10 years ago and look at you saddoes even contemplating voting for them again. They are certainly not blameless in this fiasco.

#236 The word is "written£ note "wrote".
Obviously not at Eton like your pathetic would be next government.
204

BIG EYE,

Paisley 17/05/2009 18:55:57
238

Bad news Stan, been in the pub in Paisley this afternoon watching the footie, packed full of ex Labour voters.

Unionists you can spin and spin over the £20 corkscrew but the punters know EXACTLY who's screwing who!

As one guy told me "My family has voted Labour all their lives but they are livid at these fraudsters, not one will ever vote Labour again.They should be ashamed"

Hard to improve on!

Bye Douglas!

Before you go where are the Glenrothes registers?
205

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 18:56:22
Broon's universe - the one he saved - has shrunk to personal space.
206

Johnnyf,

Scotland 17/05/2009 18:57:12
"written" not "wrote".I hope yours was a slip of the keyboard as well!
207

Alan B,

17/05/2009 19:01:16
Labour made a big mistake in making Brown prime minister as he clearly is a clown.

It was obvious he had made a mess of the economic fundamentals and the economy was vulernable to any problems with the global economy.

As labour should have choosen someone who was not so culable in another of labours not for purpose ministry.

They should have looked for what was best for the country and the labour party not one guys ego.

They needed someone to address the corruption within the labour party that has been so rife under the blair/brown tenour.

208

Alan B,

17/05/2009 19:03:34
#Johnnyf

There are 2 types of labour mps in all this. Corrupt ones and ones that have stood by for their careers and looked the other way at their colleagues corruption.
209

morris,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 19:06:19
243

Even if New Labour could get out of this mess,(and there is no chance whatsoever),the finances of that party are already millions in the red, and their major donations have been withdrawn .Looks like they will need the biggest expenses claim in history to get out of this one!

The excuse of a low turn out must be Labours only salvation now.If they dont get humped into the confines of the history books on the 4th June,then there is indeed a God and he has intervened on Gordons behalf!
210

BIG EYE,

Paisley 17/05/2009 19:10:22
Is it not astonishing that Labour can still command 17% support across the UK despite this level of crookery?

Where do these people live?

Mars?
211

BIG EYE,

Paisley 17/05/2009 19:11:00
Thought about it a bit longer

They must be postal voters!
212

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:17:34
Administration for Labour would indeed be a step in the right direction, morris@243. But that is football terminology.

Hmmmm? Oh, yes please. Put Labour into administration.

Then receivership.
213

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:20:54
Go Spookums. Are you typical of the new Scotsman readership?
214

nova albion,

17/05/2009 19:21:04
Vote tory,for independence for England and Scotland.
215

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:23:21
Big Eye. The 17% is the postal vote. The plus or minus variation is the zombie vote.
216

morris,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 19:25:51
244

Read the article !
Even Labours own leaders fear they may be out for "50 years".

It says :(check it if you want but I copied and pasted it so there is no error)

Labour is now only three points ahead of the Liberal Democrats. A senior figure said: "This is literally about saving the Labour party now. If we don't do anything, this might be the moment when Labour goes the same way as the Liberals in the 1920s. We might not be back in government for 50 years."

I should point out at this point that the Liberals to date were not only out for 50 years.They have been out for nearer to 100 and counting.

You cannot foretell the future any more than I can,but all the indicators favour my forecast where none come even close to favouring yours!

I could be wrong,but the question we should ask is What chance that you could be right?
I reiterate what I said earlier.When a party drops to a level of below 20% in public opinion,they are unlikley to ever return.
217

nova albion,

17/05/2009 19:31:13
267. Why do you think i am big bird kimba? I am not big nor female.
218

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:33:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yeCDdwjOBY

Scottish unionist voters.
219

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:36:59
Spook, were you moderated into oblivion? I thought someone was impersonating you.
220

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:39:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcA-ChaGdYw

He, he hhfh.
221

English Voice,

17/05/2009 19:41:08
290. Word from Berero says the same :-)
222

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:41:21
285, ColB. Does the toilet seat come with a wee girl sitting on it?

Yeah, I know, delete.
223

English Voice,

17/05/2009 19:43:55
294. Ahoy
224

English Voice,

17/05/2009 19:49:08
297. No man, is shangers
225

morris,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 19:49:23
272 Funnily enough that thought occured to me also.
The crazy part is that whilst Labour are just desperate enough to try it,the problem is they would have to adopt him as a by election candidate in a safe seat to have any chance of him being elected as an MP. No danger there then !Maybe he could be a special advisor to Broon,at an appropriate drain on the public purse of course and also claimed again as an expense by Maggie Broon.
226

Nikostratos,,

17/05/2009 19:50:01
The Sunday Herald has learned SNP chief whip Brian Adam and minister for parliamentary business Bruce Crawford advised MSPs against talking to the media about the issue, in what one senior SNP worker called an atmosphere of "blind panic".

Of the 28 MSPs currently charging taxpayers for the cost of mortgage interest on a second home in Edinburgh, 12 are Nationalists, half of whom are cabinet secretaries or ministers. They include finance secretary John Swinney and housing minister Alex Neil, who would make profits of £95,000 each if they sold up.


According to SNP sources, Crawford and Adam contacted Nationalist MSPs to tell them not to be drawn on the subject. "It's a blind panic. It's Crawford and Adam doing the phone round. They're saying, We have people involved'. It's a case of battening down the hatches," said one source.

The Sunday Herald has also obtained an internal memo sent by the SNP press office to MSPs on Thursday about second home profits. "I advise that you don't get into that issue,
227

Don Roberto,

17/05/2009 19:52:18
Ahoy hoy chumrades
228

morris,

edinburgh 17/05/2009 19:53:09
288

PHIL WOOLAS
"The Labour Immigration Minister had claimed for nappies and women's clothing when submitting requests for expenses"

Yes....................but they were not for his personal use .......................were they?
229

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/05/2009 19:55:01
Yes, Nikostratos@301, but the issue is on other things.

Like fraud.
230

English Voice,

17/05/2009 19:57:34
303. Ahoy ahoy the mangy!
231

Don Roberto,

17/05/2009 20:01:25
How's things Chuckles, I note your team humped the Hoops chances today. Our lavender chum will have filled his socks with glee!
232

Brianwci,

17/05/2009 20:29:26
This fiasco all seems to be too good to be true from a Scot Nat perspective but remember the Unionist propaganda machine is working hard to drag the SNP into this too in order to neutralise the gains it is making at the expense of London Labour in particular.

Look at today's Sunday Mail on line and once you fight your way through the football threads you came across 1 political thread and it's not about the tens of thousands the unionistas have ripped us off for, it's all about Angus McNeil and his flat furnishings, his mini bar claims and of course his now infamous Toblerone Bar, price £2.

Today on the Scotland show they spread the blame across the parties but interestingly London Labour's contribution was EX LL MP Tam Dalyel. However Robertson's infamous £20 corkscrew and yet again McNeil's £2 Toblerone were prominent.

Most people won't be fooled by this but many will so we must keep hammering away in our daily lives at the unionist MPs.

This is a fantastic gift for us but we must NEVER become complacent. We are up against a ruling class which built the greatest Empire the world has ever seen........they won't give up easily.

Keep pushing hard until we are well over the line.
233

Nikostratos,,

17/05/2009 20:34:20
he Sunday Herald has learned SNP chief whip Brian Adam and minister for parliamentary business Bruce Crawford advised MSPs against talking to the media about the issue, in what one senior SNP worker called an atmosphere of "blind panic".

Of the 28 MSPs currently charging taxpayers for the cost of mortgage interest on a second home in Edinburgh, 12 are Nationalists, half of whom are cabinet secretaries or ministers. They include finance secretary John Swinney and housing minister Alex Neil, who would make profits of £95,000 each if they sold up.


According to SNP sources, Crawford and Adam contacted Nationalist MSPs to tell them not to be drawn on the subject. "It's a blind panic. It's Crawford and Adam doing the phone round. They're saying, We have people involved'. It's a case of battening down the hatches," said one source.

The Sunday Herald has also obtained an internal memo sent by the SNP press office to MSPs on Thursday about second home profits. "I advise that you don't get into that issue,
234

Nikostratos,,

17/05/2009 20:35:28
Brianwci,
17/05/2009 20:29:26
This fiasco all seems to be too good to be true from a Scot Nat perspective but remember the Unionist propaganda machine is working hard to drag the SNP into this too



The Sunday Herald has also obtained an internal memo sent by the SNP press office to MSPs on Thursday about second home profits. "I advise that you don't get into that issue,
235

Nikostratos,,

17/05/2009 20:37:16



it's all about Angus McNeil and his flat furnishings, his mini bar claims and of course his now infamous Toblerone Bar, price £2.


Of the 28 MSPs currently charging taxpayers for the cost of mortgage interest on a second home in Edinburgh, 12 are Nationalists, half of whom are cabinet secretaries or ministers. They include finance secretary John Swinney and housing minister Alex Neil, who would make profits of £95,000 each if they sold up.
236

Observer,,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 20:42:18
325 You know this issue has only arisen because the Scottish Parliament has changed the rules and will no longer be subsidising mortgages for MSP's.

You are attempting to conflate two unrelated issues. Pathetic really.
237

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 20:43:46
Ian McCartney's expense claims make interesting reading.

Champagne socialist indeed,

From The Telegraph,

"Mr McCartney’s claim, which was submitted in 2006, included £4,045 on furniture for a bedroom and lounge, £3,300 spent at B&Q, £1,328 on two settees, £817 on towels and kitchen ware, £699 on a mattress, £699 on a dining table and chairs, £662 on bedding and soft furnishings, £399 on a television, £249 on a vacuum cleaner and another £241 on soft furnishings. It also included £1,815.37 on decorating.

The House of Commons fees office informed Mr McCartney that the total claim of £16.274.10 exceeded the John Lewis list limit and it was reduced to £14,914.10. That included reducing a claim of £1,100 for a wardrobe to £600.

Mr McCartney made his claim for a total of £16,274.10 on April 12, 2006 and asked for the items to be off-set against the 2005/06 Additional Costs Allowance. Many of the purchases were made on March 31, the day the 2005/06 financial year expired.
238

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/05/2009 20:45:20
Hey Nico,

How's Tavish's reputation looking??
239

Observer,,

Glasgow 17/05/2009 20:45:59
I am getting expense fatigue. There's only so much of this stuff you can read. My favourite is still that diddy that charged the Fees Office 'cause he couldn't work his washing machine.
240

brownlie,

17/05/2009 21:19:06
Nikol,

You're far from home. Why are you not on AM2's blog yes-manning and boosting his ego?
241

Campaign Lawer,

Elgin 17/05/2009 21:57:29
Just read this on the BBC's Have Your Say

Added: Sunday, 17 May, 2009, 18:06 GMT 19:06 UK

If and when MPp's that are found guilty of stealing from us and thrown out of parliment Will their pension also be stopped as Harriot Harmen said of Sir Fred this is a moral issue not a law issue.

stuart mckenzie, manchester

Brilliant!!!
Can the Scotsman ask Harriet the question??
242

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

17/05/2009 22:05:31
I see Wardog's favourite movie is on ITV 3.
243

Fitba Krazy,

17/05/2009 22:23:04
I told you all about these creeps in the Herald two years ago when I said they were up to every possible scam. Many thanks to those journalists and others who probed for the info under FOI to prove that I was not as crazy as many made out. The sooner we are rid of these parasites for good we will all be much better off. They have been so busy lining their bank accounts and fitting up not one, not two, not three, but in some cases four or more houses to luxury levels whilst people have been made homeless and had their businesses stolen by their ilk all over the country. People have lived through sheer austerity and worked in dangerous and grossly underpaid jobs while these horrible cretins have been helping themselves to everything we and our parents worked and fought for.

ITS PAYBACK TIME AND DON'T LET THE SCUM EVER FORGET WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IN OUR LIFETIME TO DESTROY US AS THEY HAVE BLED US AND STOLE OUR FUTURES.
244

Stan Butler,

17/05/2009 22:36:01


So mibbaes the SNP aren't morally superior to the other parties after all.

Now there's a surprise.
245

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 17/05/2009 22:57:38
#127 TWC ex labour..

BALLS - courtesy of Guido..
http://www.order-order.com/2009/05/ed-yvette-triple-flipped/#comment-91827
246

Brianwci,

18/05/2009 00:05:47
Nico #323, 4 and5:

All the SNP MPs and MSPs put together don't even come close to a middle ranking London Labour offender never mind the two who are currently suspended for claiming for mortgage relief for a year and more after their mortgage was paid off.

More to the point Nico, the public doesn't see the SNP in the same black murderous vein they currently see the London Labour MPs.
247

Alan B,

18/05/2009 01:17:36
#Nico

The issue is corruption by mps at westminster largely labour.

Your attempts to divert from labour corruption due to supporting that parties shows your own level of morality.

It is the reason labour has become so corrupt when activitists like youself will accept and condone corruption from your own party.

Labour used to be an honerable party but with morally corrupt people like yourself they have lost there way.
248

Bill Mac,

ed 18/05/2009 21:00:21
137 Stan Butler - It is because of this sort of blind following that MPs find easy to take advantage of. The electorate must take a more intelligent interest in how the candidates are performing and behaving.

 

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