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Labour to 'steal' Conservative plan for tougher immigration law

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Published Date:
21 October 2007
THE Government is poised to "steal" the Conservatives' policy of setting limits on the number of non-EU migrants who come to live in Britain each year.
Liam Byrne, the immigration minister, last week repeatedly refused to rule out annual quotas as a means of controlling the rising number of migrants.

Home Office officials have now confirmed they are considering whether such a scheme would help to ease the pressures on public services created by large numbers of new arrivals.

Ministers have previously ruled out the Conservatives' plans for a cap on numbers, believing that a points system to replace the existing 80 different routes to working or studying in the UK was the best way to tackle the issue.

The Government is introducing an Australian-style points system next year, where migrants from outside the EU earn points based on factors including skills, qualifications, age, abilities and previous or prospective salary.

But the first official review of the impact of migrants on services such as health, education and housing, published last week, is thought to have reinforced the need for greater control of the number of migrants.

The Home Office's migration impact forum found that most regions of the UK were concerned about the pressures on GPs, hospital accident and emergency departments, schools and other public services.

In an interview with Channel 4 News last week, Byrne was asked four times whether he was now prepared to consider the introduction of limits on non-EU migrants and each time he refused to rule it out, beginning his answer by saying: "My focus is on getting the points system right..."

A Home Office source said: "Why shouldn't we consider all possible means of dealing with the impact of migrant workers... draw your own conclusion's from Byrne's response."

The move brought fresh Tory accusations that the Government is plundering its policies in the same way it did over inheritance tax.

Damian Green, shadow immigration minister, said: "The immigration system is in chaos and it will remain in chaos unless they produce some limits. It would be sensible of them to steal our policy and if they have the nerve to steal another Conservative policy it is a matter for them and their consciences."

The Office of National Statistics has revised its estimate of the number of migrants coming to the UK each year, from 145,000 to 190,000. In Scotland, those figures have increased from 4,000 to 8,500.

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  • Last Updated: 20 October 2007 11:39 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Immigration and refugees
 
1

The Daleks,

21/10/2007 03:19:01

My, old GC's certainly high as a kite today!!

Immigration.

We don't need any more immigrants.

What we need are policies designed to keep our own people from flooding out of these isles, and the swift removal of people who are here illegally.

2

Frank McGeachy,

Calgary 21/10/2007 04:54:12

Before you make ant final judgement on this issue, read WHILE EUROPE SLEPT. Then pressure your MP to keep out the trash that has damaged Europe to the extent it already has.

3

Guga II,

Rockall 21/10/2007 06:20:14

#2 Daleks. Totally agree. Enough is enough.

It is interesting to see though that the New Labour Numpty Party are so bereft of ideas that they have to steal them from the Tories.

Obviously Maggie Thatcher must have encouraged Maggie Broon to follow her party's lead during their little tete-a-tete over tea. I wonder if he phones her for instructions, just as The Mouth of the South phones him for her instructions?

4

Boy Wonder,

21/10/2007 06:35:19

"Labour to 'steal' Conservative plan for tougher immigration law"

And why not? They stole a lot of other Tory policies throughout Blair's reign and Brown is set to continue that.

Ans that's one reason I tore up my Labour Party membership card and voted for Scotland instead!

5

mrs spook of leith,

21/10/2007 06:45:24

#4 Guga 11,

Does your mother know that you habituate these forums day in day out reciting the same old drivel. Whatever the topic of discussion you repeatedly use the phrases', Maggie Broon, New Labour Numpty Party and, the Mouth of the South. Is that really the limits of your vocabulary or are you just intellectually challenged?

6

Haleakelaman,

21/10/2007 06:53:05

Jenny Percival is stating the obvious, plagarism is rife in politics (and everyday life). I'd like to see the dole scrounging lazy Scottish scum made to work for their money, then perhaps we wouldn't need so many immigrants who come here and work honestly, paying NIC and taxes. I'm all for a hard crackdown on illegal immigrants (and I mean hard- just put them on the next plane).
Lastly how nice to see the england rugby team getting beat by South Africa especially as the press and BBC had been touting them as the "retaining World Champions bar one game". They too are not impervious to bad decisions, amazing what the collective energies of five million Scots can do.

7

jj,

21/10/2007 06:53:24

Set limits to match the UK historic profile. If we are 2% muslim only allow 2% of immigrants to be muslim. We can take proprtionately more Christians and Hindus, of course.

8

Eric D,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 07:36:20

This is just naked politics at its ugliest.

ONS are an affront. 8500 immigrants each year .. and pigs can fly. Last year 75k Scots left , 95k migrants came in - a net 20k .40k from UK, 10 -20k from EU and the rest 3rd world. Repeat 35- 45 k ,3rd world alone from visa approvals, "fresh talent" ,asylum seekers , family reunion etc. If this continues at this rate, Scots will be seeking asylum themselves.

NO 7 - Have you any proof , evidence or statistics to show ; "..perhaps we wouldn't need so many immigrants..". The Governments, claim that the UK needs immigrants is based on a pack of lies.There is no evidence anywhere that the country needs immigrants for economic or any other reasons. Nulab needs immigrants as voting fodder, as few if any centre or centre right parties anywhere in Europe ever get the immigrant vote... and what's Engerland rugby thing about !! .

9

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 07:51:30

#9 Eric D

You're right. Another example of NuLab incompetence and duplicity. They cause the mess then try to appear tough in sorting out a crisis of their own making. And lie about it all in the process. Take the asylum seeker crisis for example. Repeatedly we're told there will be no amnesty for failed asylum seekers. That's why 40 families PER WEEK are being allowed to stay in Scotland alone.

10

Guga II,

Rockall 21/10/2007 08:00:49

#6 It is you who is intellectually challenged if you don't undertsand what an apt description is. The fact that your precious New Labour Numpty Party uses the same lines all the time does not seem to disturb you, possibly because you are already well disturbed.

Just as an aside, Gordon Brown well deserves the epithet Maggie Broon as he acts like a transvestite version of his heroine Maggie Thatcher. That's in addition to him taking elocution lessons so that he can even sound like her.

11

Guga II,

Rockall 21/10/2007 08:03:15

#7 That was a good, and well deserved win by the Springboks. It also enabled me to relieve a local Englishman of a lot of money by way of a bet.

12

wellwood,

ayr 21/10/2007 08:29:05

Nu Labour Liars,they are content to stock-pile our country with human dross.
It allows them to keep wages down and makes them look good humanitarians.
At the end of the process you get a nice bunch of Mongrels who will have no sense of nationhood and vote...Nu Labour.

13

Roy,

21/10/2007 08:37:53

It's time that the Tories began distancing themselves from new Labour. A move to the left should do the trick.

14

WKKB,

21/10/2007 08:44:32

I think the first pre-requesite for being able to come into Scotland is to be able to speak the language fluently. The hospital I work at is filled with drs, nurses and csw's that most of the time I can't understand a word from their mouth. Also, just how easy is it for muslim families in their entirety to get in? Considering how many are taking over businesses here and bring their families over to run them. How about letting a few more American students in to pay for the Scottish students to attend good universies. American students pay upwards of £15,000 for one year of study vs only a few thousand or even free in some cases for UK students. International student tuition is how Universities stay alive these days. Then after their studies are over and they have skills AND speak English the UK kicks them out and says we don't want you here any more.

I don't care who steals what from whom as long as it works to raise the level of actual benefit to Scotland.

OH, I have a question completely off this subject, well not completely---

Can someone tell me why it is that Muslim woman can wear clothing that completely covers them in the name of their religion, even students in our schools, but a good Christian girl can't wear a purity ring or a good Catholic girl can't wear a small cross on a chain around her neck?

When I travel the airport authorities MUST see my picture ID to make sure it's me getting on the plane but last time I got on a plane behind a muslim/Islamic woman they looked at her passport but how did they know it was really her underneath her Hijab, which covered her entire face except her eyes?

Sorry, 2 instances of inequality that really burns me

15

MtnKat,

21/10/2007 09:17:52

I have an American friend whose family emigrated from here two generations ago. She has received job offers both times she has visited.
Both times she had to return to America while her visa request was processed in LONDON. Both times she received a polite letter informing her, in essence, that her request was denied because she would be taking a job away from a 'British citizen'.
What is the criteria for this current batch?
(She was contemplating seeking asylum status from the Bush administration.)

16

Toast,

21/10/2007 10:09:20

By the time Brown calls an election the entire country is going to have figured out that labour is totally devoid of ideas and talent,they will suffer the sort of drubbing they only have nightmares about

17

Rickie,

Reality 21/10/2007 10:10:08

No offence to those here that intend to work and raise families in a law abiding manner, but isn't the same party that opened it up 'very badly' to abuse origionally closing the door after the horse has bolted several times already?

Seems labour are doing nothing but raising questions on their 'ideas & actions' these days - just wish more of us would ask the questions rather than accept 10th rate service from these trough nuzzlers.

18

John Reece's cook book,

london 21/10/2007 10:21:42

15 You're racist for airing any complaint about Muslims. They are allowed in and we have to accept that.

They have to accept nothing, they don't accept our culture, history or heritage but if we speak out they scream racism when religion is not a race but the looney leftie brigade fawn over themselves to back up these fascist.

There is nothing in the Koran, absolutely nothing, thats says women must wear the hijab, niqab or burqa, it's the islamonazis dictating the agenda. They demand we all change and accept their moronic, fascist, racist ideals like joining the anti Semitic bandwagon.

These people are being funded by our taxes to help eradicate our culture. Blair even had the Muslim extremists in Downing Street telling him how we should deal with the very people sitting round hios table.

The ones telling Blair are nearly all traceable back to extremist groups.

The simple way is stop anymore coming, we have taken enough of the Nazis who have sat here on their fat bone idle ar'es and ponced off the state while promulgating their hatred of us.

The eyes started to open and now ten bloody years too late the prisons are being packed with them.

If the looney tunes hadn't been too busy with their fascist agendas then maybe the usual racism rants would not have been aired and the islamic nazis would not be so endemically entrenched in our country.

Labour will never tackle immigration because they are nothing more than spongers themselves and believe these immigrants will always vote labour. No Islamic Nazis will vote for a party that will tackle their pervasive hatred, that rules the tories out.

None of these immigrants were needed, it's total bllx, we had mass unemployment before they arrived, giving people an incentive to work to get out of poverty would have been the right way forward. Instead we bring in millions of low level labour that drops wages even further and drags more people in to poverty with less housi

19

tommy,

Belfast uk 21/10/2007 10:29:08

It seems the conservatives are already moving toward the left

A body set up by David Cameron to advise the Conservatives on Muslim issues has criticised the Government's relationship with Israel and concluded that Iran has "legitimate" reasons for wanting nuclear weapons.

The Conservative Muslim Forum also wants the compulsory history curriculum in schools changed to give "full recognition to the massive contribution that Islam has made to the development of Western civilisation".

It also argues that preachers who advocate a rejection of democracy and its institutions should not be denied entry into Britain.

http://tinyurl.com/2qkqy6

islam has actually contributed nothing to the development of the west-nor to science for that matter-they are delusional in this respect-and expect to force this delusion on others
Any contributions to science were made by the dhimmis in the lands they conquered and as these dhimmis faded due to persecution so did islams science
Throughout history they have destroyed books of knowledge and anything not considered islamic.
The wests success is due to its judeo/christian roots that encourage science and development unlike islam that has shown the world barbarism from its inception to the present day

The leaders of this country must stop being puppets and start to learn about islam using their own God given intelligence.It is imperative they stop being a repository for muslim spin and taqiyya.
This country is slipping into some degenerative phase that beggars description

20

Boab,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 10:37:42

#8 jj: interesting theory JJ. Although you do realize that if our Muslim population grew to 3% their immigration allowance would also grow to 3%, by your system ... in other words, the faster ethnic groups breed the more immigrants they would be allowed.

Unless you want these quotas to be set in stone forever?

#21 Bit Kilroy-Silk, there, Tommy. Islam's given plenty to the world in the fields of science, art and literature. It even gave us hip-hop if you count Public Enemy and Ice-T!

21

Boab,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 10:42:15

#20 See that zero next to the number 2 in the number of your post, John? Muslim. Means you can count up to 100 using only 2 digits.

Far from being a drain, immigrant labour adds £6,000,000,000 per year to the UK economy, as far as I remember.

22

EWB,

UK 21/10/2007 10:45:42

I'm almost tempted to suggest that Labour call themselves the New Conservatives and invite Dave to be Deputy Leader.

However, I look at Labour's plans for ID cards and other means of storing personal data, and I see that they have more in common with a totalitarian state.

How can a party like New Labour, so devoid of its own ideas, which must reflect on its Supreme Leader, be fit for purpose?

23

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 11:05:40

#25 Boab

That's debatable but, assuming we a ccept that figure, it's based on legal immigration. Thanks to NuLab incompetence there are 100,000s of ILLEGAL immigrants working in the black economy. Doing necessary jobs, perhaps, but contributing nothing in terms of tax or NI and, literally, draining billions of pounds of cash out of the UK economy back to their families in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Somalia, Nigeria etc etc

24

blarney expat observer,

21/10/2007 11:10:47

I've had it up to hear with Brown! He'll be stealing from the Lib Dems next! Don't listen to people like him and the grandson of the winged messenger!

25

Eric D,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 11:12:50

No 25 - Your numbers are a pile of crap. THe official line is that immigrants added "3.1 per cent to Britain's Gross Domestic Product (GDP)" since 1998." But this does not take into account the increased population,the other critical fact: over the same period, immigrants added 3.8 per cent to the total British population. Put those two together and you get the result that the effect of immigration since 1998 has been to lower GDP per capita, not to increase it.

26

John S,

21/10/2007 12:06:19

Telegraph - 21/10/2007

Rising immigration, a higher birthrate among migrant families and longer lifespans are on course to lift the population by at least 15 million by 2051, from last year's 60 million total. There are fears it could even hit 77 million.

Prof Coleman told peers that the proportion of the population that is non-white was on course to grow from 9 per cent at the last census in 2001 to 29 per cent in 2051.

Women are now expected to have, on average, 1.84 babies each during their lives, compared with an expectation of only 1.74 two years ago. Foreign-born women living in the UK have, on average, 2.2 children. Pakistani-born women living here have an average of 4.7, whereas British-born women have only 1.6. Last year, 22 per cent of UK births were to foreign-born women.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=IT4...

27

megz,

glasgow 21/10/2007 12:46:49

clearly what is needed it a law to stop labour stealing lol

28

John Reece's cook book,

london 21/10/2007 12:52:28

25 the same old fable about this great contribution.

They are a net loss of over two billion so stop giving out the same old garbage. The other myth was that giving jobs to the half million sponging asylum seekers would produce 4.7 billion pounds.

Another fable from the fantasy league, there is no half million jobs for the spongers and so the figures and fables are all inside the heid nipping looney lefties who just keep promulgating the same old sh'te.

300'000 homes gone, given to spongers in front of the indigenous population, that's not fantasy that's fact.

The NHS and social services falling apart because of the spongers, fact not looney tune fantasy. The vast majority of any contribution from immigrants comes from a tiny minority who had the required skills to integrate in the city.

There are no homes, no jobs and no more money to keep feeding the spongers.

So boab the next time you want to witter looney tune facts tell us where they can be perused, try to get it sort of neutral because even your dense dullard labour government are leaking the facts that the spongers are a vast drain on our society.

But don't let the facts get in the way of the looney left rants, they do give us a laugh at the naivety of some left wing numpties.

29

An Beal Bacht,

Travelling in Nihlon 21/10/2007 13:27:57

Inward migration has many benefits;

1. destroy national aspirations by demographic dillution thereby discounting a peoples claim to sovereignty.

2. creates a bogey man that can be used as a pretext to limit people's freedom

3. creates a pool of support as you can posture as their protector against those racist elements

4. cheap labour for your corporate buddies.

These are just a few examples of the benefits of greater levels of immigration. However, none of that is the fault of the immigrant who is just trying to get a better life for themselves and their families.

Britain is overcrowded, Europe is overcrowded. We don't need nore people. The people of Europe are demonstrating this by reducing their birth rates. If only our so called leaders would pay attention to what the people are telling them immigration wouldn't be restricted - it would be stopped.

30

Boab,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 14:01:10

#27 / 32 Leave it out, I'm just another capitalist! Here's where I got my £6 bn figure:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2672639.ece

Arguments rage about the extent of illegal immigration but by it's nature the figures are all conjecture. If you can direct me to compelling evidence that our social services are in meltdown due to immigrants, feel free to supply a link.

Getting back to the headline, I'm hard-headed enough to say: sure, bring in a points system for non-EU immigrants so that we only get trained professionals and millionaires.

We didn't let all those Jewish, Irish, West Indian and Asian people in because we're, y'know, nice ...

#29 Eric D: Er ... excuse me for being thick but aren't you assuming a 1:1 relationship there? e.g. immigrants increased the population by 3.8% but only increased the GDP by 3.1% ... does this necessarily mean they caused a net loss?

31

Ms Fiona,

21/10/2007 14:15:10

Is this not remeniscent of the 1970's when I was growing up and the NF were in their heydey. They are coming over here to steal our jobs, take our houses, scrounge off the system, etc etc. That was 30 years ago I'm getting deja vu. You've left out steal our women, that was in the days when a 'coloured' boy could get a doing for going out with a white girl. Is that progress do you think ?

32

tommy,

belfast uk 21/10/2007 14:38:57

to 22 Boab
There were certain advances in science under islamic rule but these were in spite of islam not because of islam, as islam by its very nature is incompatible with science
I think immediately of Omar Khayyam as an example of one who faced many trials in his production of mathmatical concepts
and his development of indian maths
Quote Khayamm.....
The Indians possess methods for finding the sides of squares and cubes based on such knowledge of the squares of nine figures, that is the square of 1, 2, 3, etc. and also the products formed by multiplying them by each other, i.e. the products of 2, 3 etc. I have composed a work to demonstrate the accuracy of these methods, and have proved that they do lead to the sought aim. I have moreover increased the species, that is I have shown how to find the sides of the square-square, quatro-cube, cubo-cube, etc. to any length, which has not been made before now.....Unquote

However he had problems ... He found himself under attack by orthodox Muslims who felt that Khayyam's questioning mind did not conform to the faith

Quote Khayyam
I was unable to devote myself to the learning of this algebra and the continued concentration upon it, because of obstacles in the vagaries of time which hindered me; for we have been deprived of all the people of knowledge save for a group, small in number, with many troubles, whose concern in life is to snatch the opportunity, when time is asleep, to devote themselves meanwhile to the investigation and perfection of a science; for the majority of people who imitate philosophers confuse the true with the false, and they do nothing but deceive and pretend knowledge, and they do not use what they know of the sciences except for base and material purposes; and if they see a certain person seeking for the right and preferring the truth, doing his best to refute the false and untrue and leaving aside hypocrisy and deceit, they make a fool of him and m

33

Boab,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 14:53:51

#40 Tommy: Khayyam was still a Muslim, though, wasn't he? As a progressive he had to struggle against conservatives, same as in any system of thought.

34

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 21/10/2007 15:04:59

#38 griffe, Yes pretty much! but hasn't it always been like this? SNP are breaking the mold by questioning the practices of mainstream politics. The electorate are finally starting to see through the lie which is new labour.

35

Boab,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 15:22:47

#42 I just got what your moniker means, Banana Heid! Is the cave worth visiting? And did you really used to have cannibals living there?

36

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 15:25:42

#38 Griffe

Yup.

37

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 15:33:11

#39 Ms Fiona

You can't be so blind as to not see taht the situations before and after 1997 are completely different. Before this government came to power, there was at least a pretence at regulating immigration. The numbers from the West Indies, the Subcontinent and Ireland could be measured over decades in tens of thousands, the low hundreds of thousands at most. Now we have a situation where tens of thousands of LEGAL immigrants and a conservative estimate of hundreds of thousands of thousands of illegal immigrants are coming in the space of a year or two. PLUS woorkers from the new EU countries passing through or staying. You cant rationally argue that is going to have an effect on government service provision and social coherence. Happy clappy, we are the world niceness is admirable but not particularly sensible at times.

38

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 15:35:36

#42 Banana Heid

I trust you agree with a more open policy on immigration? The SNP stance is to allow a much more open door in the new Scotland.

39

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 15:41:14

#35 Boab

I trust you haven't been reading the papers or watching the TV (even the BBC and C4, hardly the Inhouse Broadcasters of the BNP, have covered it)regarding the pressure on services caused by immigration. Pressure on housing in Slough, pressure on education provision in East Anglia and Cambridgeshire, differing crime trends across the country caused by cultural differences, noticable rises in Aids and TB cases across the South East. Come on, it's not all Daily Mai propoganda. Even this useless, deceitful government has realised it has cocked up big time.

40

John Reece's cook book,

21/10/2007 15:41:45

Aye well Boab why am I not surprised to see you quote a government document and quote it as gospel.

13'000 FOREIGNERS WILL DESCEND....Didn't the same government say that too.

WMD'S can be launched in 45 minutes.

Or the best one..........The people will have a referendum on the EU.

Wonderful Boab, this the government of the wooden noses and you promulgate the sh'te they publish as though it's true. The only people who believe that guff are the mentally derangned, the government are not even arguing against the tide of evidence against such lurid and flawed figures.

They haven't got a friggin clue how many spongers are here so how the hell can they say they contribute billions, they just made it up.

God I laugh at such crass naivety.

The same paper gives a complete different opinion in a different article.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minet...

41

John Reece's cook book,

21/10/2007 15:56:10

39 the looney tune fiona is back, tell us fiona how many spongers arrived in the whole of the 60s and 70s and how many arrived arrived in 2006.

You do give us a laugh, as already pointed out every time the looney tunes have nowt to say the resort to the racism sh'te.


You never cleared up the housing issue, seeing as you claimed to work in housing and claimed the spongers get no advantage. As I pointed out earlier and you obviously missed it.

A couple on the housing list for ten years with no children, the spongers arrive with children and are instantly ahead on the waiting list.

See Fiona they haven't changed the rules in 20 years and funnily enough I mentioned that last week and whispers abound this week that the government intend to attempt to rectify the situation. Seems that you know sod all about what you claimed to work in. I suppose cleaner in the hoosing office could be construed as a housing officer in some way.

Labour MPs have already spoken out about it but no doubt they don't conform to your looney left views so they'll be racist too.

42

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 16:11:02

#49 Cook Book

That fact that the poor indigenous people of the South East of England in particular are getting a raw deal has even penetrated the thick skull of Margaret Hodge, MP for Dagenham. And she, in her time as council leader in Islington, was on the loonier wing of the Loony Left.

43

freedomfries,

21/10/2007 16:22:36

Is that the horse's ass I see over the swinging barn door?

What about the mess we're in now? The country is already past critical mass. It's a national catastrophe.

44

Ms Fiona,

21/10/2007 17:21:56

#49 Eh ? You made statements about housing in Glasgow saying that asylum seekers were jumping the waiting list. I corrected you as that was and remains factually untrue. You live in London, you must be talking about what happens down there, I wouldn't know. But the original article was about Glasgow so thats what the discussion was about. I hardly see how that equates to me being a looney tune cleaner in a housing office, I must have upset you !

45

John Reece's cook book,

21/10/2007 17:32:09

Yes Draco I know about the South East of England as I live there and have been vociferous on said topic for many years. That's why the usual looney tune cry of racism matters not a jot because they haven't got a clue about what they are yapping about.

East London is the next Kosovo, the population has been gerrymandered to create a Muslim Utopia that so far has produced nothing but hatred.

Successive governments have sat back and allowed the hatred of Islam to descend on these shores. They have pandered to it, forced the indigenous population out the area, ethnic cleansing by any other name but the looney left have continually decried anyone speaking out against such policies.


Tower Hamlets funds segregartion and apartheid from the cradle to the grave.

Asian only housing is rife and the housing allocation is an absolute disgrace. The Commission for racial equality was supposed to get involved when an Asian only home was being built and the council took down the sign saying Housing for Asian elders and said the building was open to anyone.

Type Sonali Gardens in to a search and tell me where you find it advertised as open to everyone.

Asian Muslims in East London are the most bigotted and racist people on earth. That last comment came from a Bangladeshi girl speaking about the people in her community. Needless to say the council pandering to such racism funded these bigots to prevent integration. The prime motivator in getting the nazis the money was Michael Keith labour heid bummer. Along came the neo islamicnazi Respect and when they got what they wanted they voted the white keith out and put an Asian Respect Nazi in.

Respect are nearly all islamonazi immigrants who will not vote for whites. Galloway came all the way to Tower Hamlets to pander to the Islamonazi vote, he played the anti Semitic card and the nazis and the looney tunes voted in the most inept person on the planet, Galloway cares about only Galloway.

46

John Reece's cook book,

21/10/2007 17:38:40

Aw fiona darling the same laws in housing apply here and in Scotland, jings you say you work in housing but don't know the rules. I told you the rules, allocation is done on need. You sit ten years and along comes a sponger and a brat and instantly sponger is ahead of you on list. I can't make it much more simple than that. That is the cold hard fact fiona and you nor anyone else can deny it witout a cuckoo taking nest on a wooden nose on your face.

The fat is Fiona you lied dear, you lied either that 1 you work in housing or 2 you knew the rules on housing allocation.

You claimed the spongers get no advantage but they did and still bloody well do. Johnny foreigner is better treated than our own people.

I can give better examples of discrepancies but let's just wait until we see if you care to dispute the facts with some hairy fairy looney tune rant.

47

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 17:38:47

#52 Boudica

Labour CAUSED this mess. Either by incompetence or design. They've been in cahrge of it for TEN years for feck's sake. I hardly think their position now worthy of congratulation. That's like leaving the bath tap running, flooding out your neighbours, then expecting their thanks for turning it off.

48

Ms Fiona,

21/10/2007 17:44:06

#49 I never said the racist word. I said that some of the comments I read reminded me of the NF. They played to a sense of peoples fear of being 'swamped by an alien culture' as Thatcher said. #45 We have absorbed larger numbers of immigrants before, in particular the Irish. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth then about being flooded byRoman Catholics who were going to outbreed the protestants etc etc. Doesnt seem to have happened, well apart from glasgow city Council (joke). #52 I think the SNP are bang on the nail in how they relate to muslins, involving them in all aspects of civic and political life ensuring there is cohesion and not self imposed apartheid as you get in some parts of england.

I'm not saying there isnt a debate on immigration but it should be debated rationally and not in a climate of fear and ignorance.

49

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 17:56:33

#58 Ms Fiona

No. The influx of Irish people was over a period of a century! The number of Jewish people and the origin numbers of Poles after WW2 was, comparatively, very small. The numbers of Chinese was, again, relatively small. After some difficulties, the immigrants of the 50s, 60S and 70s were, largely, integrating (except a significant percentage of the Muslims in East London and NW England). The UK was a good example of people integrating, slowly. Better than most European countries. But what does Labour do? It lets in 100,000s, possibly millions in the space of a few years. More than there are Welsh people or Northern Irish people. Almost as many as there are Scots. It panders to them. It discriminates IN FAVOUR of them. It brands anyone who raises concern a racist. No, this will become a BIG mess with horrible results and it's all Labour and the hand-wringing liberals' fault.

50

Pilrig.,

Livingston 21/10/2007 18:05:15

21 - Jesus wants you for a sunbeam !

51

Pilrig.,

Livingston 21/10/2007 18:09:15

38 - err, yes.

52

Ms Fiona,

21/10/2007 18:11:25

#59 Sorry I think I'm at cross purposes with the people I am annoying. I am talking about immigration in a Scottish context, not a UK wide one. I think we can absorb immigrants far more successfully than places like Tower Hamlets did if we are canny about it and learn from their mistakes. How many is up for debate but it should be a rational debate and based on facts not myths.

53

John Reece's cook book,

21/10/2007 18:30:00

What myths would that be fiona because so far all I hear from the looney left are myths.

Why does Scotland need immigrants when it doesn't have enough employment for it's own people.

Immigration to Britain means Britain not just Sighthill in Glasgow.

Every rational person now accepts the problems that have descended. Housing crisis, The NHS crisis and socilal services in melt down.

I was decried as racist when organising a protest to block the isle of dogs in 1995 to prevent Omar Bakri using the Docklands Arena, as it happened the use of the Arena was pulled by the owners, Anschluss.

Omar Bakri later did a runner like the coward and lazy sponging parasite nazi ponce that he is and that's his good points. So being decried by the politically naive on here is nothing. Everything I said ten years ago has come to fruition.

These people do not integrate, they are here only to scrounge and promulgate their inherent racist propaganda. We are paying them to do so as well as giving them better treatment than our pensioners receive, pensioners who fought for this country.

The scum are here and now clogging up our prisons.

If they were all escaping persecution then they would be anywhere but here, they come through the whole of Europe to sponge here.

54

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 21/10/2007 18:53:32

#62 Fiona

Waht do you mean 'their'? The mistakes were, I suspect, yours. I suspect that you form part of the liberal consensus that has stridently dominated the debate on immigration in Scotland as well as across the UK as a whole. The liberals on both sides of the border have been singing from the same hymn sheet. Immigration is good thing. To suggest otherwise or even to recommend quotas makes one a racist. Fiona, I'm afraid we're all reeping what you, your liberal friends and Labour have sown.

55

Haleakelaman,

Auld Grey City 21/10/2007 18:54:04

#62
I agree.
I'm sure with proper debate and care we can set up a system in Scotland where immigrant workers have to work with a no welfare policy until it has been earned. Like I keep repeating they are more beneficial to our country than the home-grown lazy Scottish scum.

56

Eric D,

Glasgow 21/10/2007 18:54:41

No 41 -You been reading NULABS bible. Strong economies attract immigrants. Immigrants dont create strong economies. GDP might increase, but GDP per head can go down. Immigrants creates wage deflation at the bottom end, boosting company profits and hence higher taxes to the exchequer. Recent studies by think tank CIVITAS show , the net economic gain of immigrants to the Scottish economy is equivalent to a Mars bar a week because the Government does not include disproportionate uptake of benefits, housing, education and health costs, (Poles excluded) not to mention prison costs etc etc.

As far as population is concerned. There has been a net influx of 30,000 per year ( some say as direct result of 3rd world immigration crowded into the English cities) for the last 5 years ( not including asylum seekers) and is now at, or near its historical peak. There is no doubt population makup is changing rapidly - indigenous directly being replaced with 3 rd world and from the rest UK. Less and less Scots now living here. ( A quick walk around Braehead today emphasised rapidly increasing appearance of muslims in Glasgow). In the 60's , at the height of industrial output the Scottish population was 4.5 M Scots.
As for future workers , try getting the 10% of the unemployed adults into work by cutting incapacity benefit and increasing minimum wage. If the employers can't get labour wages will rise - supply / demand. Sort of what happens in almost any other European country without mass unrestricted immigration -eg Germany.

There isn't a population deficit , the ratio between those in work and pensioners is changing due to low birth rate as a direct result NULABs anti-family policies. The indigenous birth rate can be increased by incentives, for instance stop inducing mothers into work and reward them for having more kids .

The most likely reason NULAB want continuing mass immigration is voting fodder. 83% of all immigrants across Europe vote for left of cen

57

MichScot,

USA 21/10/2007 19:08:48

#3

That is on my list of books to read. I will read ASAP!

Thanks.#15

I agree with you. Also I would like to say that the muslims are taking over businesses left and right over here, as well. Is this is a part of a take-over strategy? You never know. I would not put it past them.

#16

I have heard of such instances, as well. I guess a hijab is in order?

#57

I feel a bit outnumbered here at times, as well. The population is darker. My daughter is very blonde and she has been told to darken her hair to dark blonde to have a chance at as much as placing in competition in pageants. We thought her blondeness was different and an attribute, but it is a liability. (Reverse discrimination?)

The Mexican government is encouraging emigration in order to take back their land (SW USA). So many gas stations and motels, (and other businesses )are muslim that I am surprised when it one isn't run by them.

#58

I'm sorry, Ms. Fiona, but this is a different kind of immigration.

Mexicans, Irish,Chinese, Italians, etc., will eventually fit in one way or another. Muslims won't.

Sharia law and rule of the entire world is their goal. Read the Koran. Read the book, "The Apocalypse of Ahmadinejad" by Mark Hitchcock. That will put the fear of God in you. There are countless other books out there that state the same Sharia takeover plan, and there are many that were written by ex-Muslims.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Don't be an ostrich.

58

MichScot,

USA 21/10/2007 19:18:58

#66

Good point about supply/demand.. When did the middle class arise? When wages went up because so many serfs had been wiped out by the plague! More immigrants means more people competing for lower wages.

And you can count on it: if the muslims are in control, we dhimmis will be second-class citizens at best. Want to try serfdom? I don't.

59

honest, jock,

Leith 21/10/2007 23:09:40

What amazes me is the fact that "New" Labour are still trying to pretend they are not just another Tory party. You couldnt get the edge of an american express card between their Ideologies. Both are bought and paid for by the same big businesses.

60

Senga Jean,

Scotland 21/10/2007 23:42:53

Vote Labour...get Tory. Vote SNP get a party (middle left) that cares about Scotland.

61

MichScot,

USA 22/10/2007 01:39:32

By the way, about Diana's article yesterday, when I said that about it being a victory if a Muslim could topple the monarchy, I did not state it as I meant. What I meant was that it is a hypothesis that it could be a motive, and I apologize for the misunderstanding. You are right that it was contemptible as written, but it really was a conspiracy theory thing.

I actually have muslim friends who are very nice, but I really do not want that religion in control, so I am caught in a vice.

I just want to be free.

I would love for them to be free and integrated with us, but there is a real possibility that will not always be the case.

My apologies.

62

whatsyourname,

22/10/2007 03:09:47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA
This is really what we are in for vote No

63

punklin,

glasgow 22/10/2007 04:03:59

Why is the tone of so many of these comments so angry, vicious even?

Why do some people blame the victims rather than the policies of globalisation that caused these movements of mostly desparate people to places where, you'd hope, they might at least find tolerance and understanding?

I suspect very few people risk the unknown journey and abusive reception that is the reality of immigration in order to sponge off another country.

I sympathise with them and hope that they will be better treated and respected than seems to come across from some of the comments on this message board.

Read TWO CARAVANS by Marina Lewycka.

Economic realities? States make their own economic realities - take a fraction of the money from nuclear weapons and wars and we could welcome many more people (if we wanted to ...)

We are all equal.

64

tommy,

belfast uk 22/10/2007 06:39:03

To 41 Boab
By any description khayyam would have been an apostate as his science was "outside the koran" were notable scientists of the era were
Ibn Sina (980-1037)medicine
"The after life is a notion received from religious teaching; there is no way of establishing it's truth save by way of religious dogma and acceptance of the prophet's report as true;he rejected unreservedly the resurrection of the body, and with it the literal acceptance of those passages in the Koran describing in graphic physical terms the pleasure and the torture of the damned."

Abu Bakr Mohammed ibn Zakariya ar-Razi (841-926)medicine physics maths and astronomy
-"These billy goats (Prophets) pretend to come with a message from God, all the while exhausting themselves in spouting their lies, and imposing on the masses blind obedience to the "words of the master."

Abu 'L-ala Ahmad b. Abdallah al-Ma'arri (973-1057)poetry and grammar
al-Marri did not believe in resurrection and strongly condemned religious beliefs.
"Hanifs (Muslims) are stumbling, Christians all astray
Jews wildered, Magians far on error's way.
We mortals are composed of two great schools:
Enlightened knaves or else religious fools....."

These guys had no respect for islam and certainly could not be called muslims- though when you listen to muslims now --
extolling them as products of islam,you can't help but worry as to who is swallowing this nonsense


http://tinyurl.com/3cj9v7

65

Displaced Scot,

Uk 22/10/2007 16:28:06

I dont like the present policy of letting in all and sundry from EU nations. You can be a doctor from an EU country with little or no knowledge of English and be allowed to practice. Yet if you are a Kiwi or Aussie you have to prove that you can speak English.

66

Sscotty,

U.S.A. 23/10/2007 00:07:32

First of all let me say #1 why bother putting your two cents in, when it doesn't make any sense.
Have something intelligent to say, or say nothing at all.

Whatever it takes to keep illegal immigrants out of the U.K.i say go for it. Their are 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.s. They are given free embergeny medical coverage.which can last for yearrs. Their children are given free education. The tax payers are paying for bylinguil teachers, while the parents of American born children are told they have to pay for tutors, to assist in thier childrens education. Many children here in the state, do not have medical coverage. Howeever, illegal immigrants are given free medical coverage, their children free education. Yes I say whatever it takes to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the U>K> I say go for it.

67

Milagro,

Edinburgh 23/10/2007 08:33:34

Latest reports show Scotlands population declining; we need to to double it if we are to be able to support ourselves. Immigrants contribute overall not only doing jobs Scot are unwilling to do (our own youngsters seem less committed to work); many are highly trained and doing more menial jobs; while many gaps especially in the NHS are filled by Drs, nurses and others from abroad- and they do a good job!

68

Redfive,

23/10/2007 14:01:20

John Reece's cook book

Spot on I agree with all your posts, with my head in my hands I keep asking myself where will this all end. Will we ever be able to jail those NuLabour numpties for the destruction of the quality of life for the UK natives.

69

ford escort,

dar al harb 23/10/2007 21:45:58

25-Boab, the Hindus had the 'zero' idea first.

As regards all the 'science, art and literature that islam gave us'
Glen Chancy in his article -Examining the 'Golden age' of islamic civilization sums it up rather well.

For the first centuries of the Islamic Empire, the majority of the population was comprised of highly skilled Christians ruled by a minority of Arab Muslims. During this time the productive people did what they had done for centuries -- they built, they traded, they created wealth. Asthe dhimmi population declined through conversion, emigration, and mass execution, so did the vitality and glory of the Islamic Empire. Without the Byzantine architects, Armenian merchants, Greek craftsmen, and Egyptian peasantry, the Islamic world became the poverty-stricken place it is today; one that differs little from the Arabia of the seventh century. In a sense the Muslim world didn't decline. Rather, as the Christians declined it simply returned to its barbarian roots.

At the beginning of Muslim rule there were some impressive accomplishments. The progress however, can be attributed to the advanced but conquered Christian culture. The city of Baghdad was built by Christian artisans and architects, often enslaved. The Christian physician Ibn Bakhtishu founded the great hospital of Baghdad. Jerusalem's Dome of the Rock was designed and built by Byzantine architects. Christian and Jewish scribes translated Sanskrit, Persian, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts into Arabic. Many of these scholars and artisans converted to Islam in order to work and to ensure their safety. Consequently, their accomplishments have been erroneously credited to Islamic civilization ignoring the fact that they received their training as Christians or Jews.

Eventually some great scientists and philosophers arose in Islamic culture. With the accumulated knowledge of antiquity made available by the translations into Arabic, some scholars were able to advance in opti

70

BB,

all corners of the world 23/10/2007 22:06:35

.. right... just on a different note..

So its ok for britain to Build an "Empire" upon which the sun never sets. Its ok for Britain to rule over the world and reap resources in colonies where once flourishing economies and cultures strive and then rape them of it by "bringing it home" (Jewels, medicine, artifacts etc). Its was ok to tax the colonies for the benifit of the the "Mother Land" (eg "The Salt Tax" http://iref.homestead.com/files/Salt.htm";) and till today it is ok to restrict trade of certain goods and comodities by duties and regulations from outside the EU.

But when a migrant enters Britain for a change of living or even fleeing from persecution, it is not ok because they are supposidly reaping the rewards of a supposidly soft welfare system.

Get your facts right.
- Migration to the US (cause by every means know possible!) benifited or not? seeing that it is now the largest economy in the world?? ok it has its flaws but does which country does not?
-Migration to Australia. Benifited a declining population, a shortage of skills and labour and thus stopped in many ways helped stop the huge outflow of migrants from it.

The rate at which the world is changing today, it no longer should matter where you are from or what color you are.

If you think about it, if the movement of goods can be so free ("supposidly") why not the movement of labour?

Oh and #29. Get your figures right please. 3.8% increase in population would be.... 2.3Million People (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=6 calculated 60.6 *0.038)
3.1% increase in GDP would be 28.3 Billion (Based on PPP: Source http://www.nationmaster.com/cou

71

,

25/10/2007 02:04:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
72

Redfive,

26/10/2007 11:51:27

Just like to point out that stopping non-eu immigration will not stop this uncontrolled immigration, the greatest number of immigrants comes from the eu. Until we can put a cap on that we will contiue to be bursting at the seams. Also what about stopping arranged marriages of conveniece to gain UK passports. What about student visas for entering the UK that are serialy abused, there are many many loop holes left wide open for abuse so dont expect any difference in the current immigration debacle.


 

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