Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Salmond to table coalition compromise

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 06 May 2007
The SNP is expected to offer the Lib Dems a 'govern-first, decide-later' coalition deal which, if agreed, would propel Alex Salmond into power as Scotland's next First Minister.
In talks scheduled to begin tomorrow afternoon, Nationalist sources say they will propose putting a referendum bill on independence "on the back-burner" for up to two years, if the Lib Dems agree to sign up to a partnership deal.

Only at the end
of that period would the coalition partners have to decide on the question of the referendum. Up until that point, they claim, both sides could focus on issues over which they have agreement, such as scrapping the council tax.

The deal is seen as a way of getting round the Lib Dems' implacable opposition to a referendum on independence, which they reiterated yesterday following a lengthy meeting of MSPs in Edinburgh.

But sources close to Nicol Stephen, the Lib Dem leader, last night issued a cool response, offering further evidence that the SNP may have to go it alone as a minority administration.

The SNP's coalition building began yesterday, just hours after their one-vote victory, announced at 6pm on Friday. Salmond met

Green party leader Robin Harper for "positive" talks in Edinburgh.

Former leader John Swinney has now been put in charge of talks with the Lib Dems. The SNP still insists it will not bend over its commitment to hold a referendum within the four-year term of the government. However, SNP sources are drawing a comparison between the deadlock over this with the same disagreement which occurred between the Lib Dems and Labour in 1999 over tuition fees.

One way round the problem is to agree a deal in which a White Paper on independence is published this autumn, but a vote on a bill is delayed until around 2009.

One soon-to-be MSP said: "It may be that we can put it on the back-burner for a year or two. It may be that we can work with them for a year or two and see how it goes.

"The overwhelming feeling among the SNP group is one of moderation and cooperation. But there is no bending that we must have the referendum within the four years."

Another added: "The numbers in the Parliament might make it a sensible option. First and foremost, this is about extending the hand of friendship around the Parliament."

Both the Nationalists and Lib Dems want the council tax replaced with a local income tax. They also oppose the siting of any new nuclear power stations north of the Border.

In a statement yesterday, speaking in front of his new cohort of 47 SNP MSPs, Alex Salmond said: "The people have spoken and the view of the country is quite clear. All politicians have to remember the conversation we've just had with the electorate."

Salmond added that he had already had informal talks with other parties. "We've had conversations informally, but there's been no formal negotiations as yet," he said. "During the election we expressed a preference for a coalition and that's certainly my preference."

Meanwhile, Lib Dem MSPs spent the day locked in talks as they plan their next move. It comes after a disappointing night for the junior coalition partner, which lost one seat.

In a statement, Lib Dem leader Nicol Stephen said he believed the SNP had the authority to try to establish a government. "The group agreed that the largest party has the right to seek to form an administration either through a coalition or as a minority," he said.

However, he added: "The result of the election shows there is no demand or mandate for independence. Therefore, the group agreed unanimously that we will not support a referendum on independence."

One source close to Stephen said that the idea of delaying a referendum bill was a recipe for "bad government". Another hindrance to an SNP-Lib Dem government is thought to be the fact that the SNP dealt two painful constituency defeats on its likely coalition partners. In Gordon, Salmond beat sitting MSP Nora Radcliffe, while in Argyll and Bute, Jim Mather beat former finance minister George Lyon.

One SNP insider said: "They will be feeling a bit bruised at the moment. We have to take that into account."

There is also speculation that the party's UK leader, Sir Menzies Campbell, may be opposed to his Scottish party joining up with the SNP - especially with the Lib Dems at Westminster in the running to enter a coalition with Labour after the 2009 elections.

If the deadlock cannot be breached, the SNP could decide either to press ahead on its own. The Lib Dems would also then have to reach a decision about whether or not to talk to Labour.

Both the Conservatives and the one independent candidate in the Parliament - Margo MacDonald - have now both ruled themselves out of any talks.

A senior Conservative Party source said: "There is no way our supporters would allow us to put the Labour Party into power when clearly the result of this election is that the Labour party has lost.

"If we were to get a minority SNP administration that has to win the support of the three Unionist parties to get anything, I don't think that would be such a bad situation."

Meanwhile the SNP has published figures showing they are now the largest party in Scottish local government, with 363 councillors, compared with Labour's 348. The Nationalists claim that the figures show the scale of Labour's defeat last week, and mean they no longer control local government north of the Border.

The Greens were also meeting in Edinburgh yesterday to discuss their next move. A party spokesman said: "We haven't ruled anything in or out and we are considering all the options."



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 May 2007 11:24 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Holyrood Elections
 
1

www.scottwebb.co.uk..,

06/05/2007 02:15:18

It will be interesting to see how this develops :)

2

Richardinho,

06/05/2007 02:22:37

Think the Liberals should just form the coalition with the Torys and the labour party that they're obviously so desperate to do.

3

Rossmcl,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 03:11:25

Oh Richardinho for Gods sake will you just stop being so stupid!!! For months now you and other Nat extremists have been spouting macho rubbish on this board. Don't you understand that the election result puts your party in a position where you have to start acting like grown-ups? The SNP have an opportunity now to show what they can do as a responsible party and I for one am curious to see what they do. It could be a new beginning. But this situation calls for maturity, not kintergarden stuff. Lets hope your MSPs show a bit more humilty and leadership than you do, and understand that other parties have a right to their views. For the sake of good government it would be so refreshing to have a week of positive language, with the children's toys back in the toy-box. Just for this week. D'you think you could manage that? Please?

4

conundrum,

06/05/2007 04:07:48

I'm surprised by the LibDem position. They could either go into government with the SNP or spend the next four years as nothing more important than the 3rd biggest opposition party, which is hardly the best way to get themselves noticed or to get their policies implemented. As it looks pretty clear that the SNP would lose any independence referendum, I don't see what they're so scared of...

5

eastside,

Japan 06/05/2007 04:27:27

I can't believe the Lib Dems are so opposed to a referendum either. Letting us vote ourselves for independence or not would be the best way to settle the debate.

There is now the possibility to get rid of the WMDs stored in Scotland. I hope the Lib Dems don't pass it up.

6

AlanSmart,

Falkirk 06/05/2007 04:37:01

The Vote Scandal is a bigger issue than all of this . Please sign this e-petition and help get it to others
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ScottishVoteScandal2007/

7

,

06/05/2007 06:26:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Freemind,

Germany 06/05/2007 06:28:28

#3, Talking about toys, I think Richardinho (who is just as entitled to his opinion as you are to yours) should only put his teddy away if you get off your high horse. That is true democracy!!

9

donald,

weegieland 06/05/2007 06:55:27

No point in gaining power if you lose your soul and hold office just for the sake of it. You may as well be Lab-Lib Dummies.

No Deal.

Go for a rerun. The disenfranchised have now had time to wake up.

10

Greenheatman,

06/05/2007 06:58:26

"But sources close to Nicol Stephen, the Lib Dem leader, last night issued a cool response, offering further evidence that the SNP may have to go it alone as a minority administration."

Well, the SNP must go it alone, the Lib Dems and labour are back-stabbing opportunists and should not get any power again. If they vote everything out then Alex will just call for an other election - it is that simple.

The thought of their collective snouts being whisked away from the trough will concentrate minds wonderfully for the next 4 years.

11

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:35:44

Does anybody know if our New MSPs have started pulling down their salaries and claiming expenses yet? and if so what are they doing to earn them?

12

stevek,

perthshire 06/05/2007 07:38:59

As a newcomer to Scotland, I am finding the voting procedure very odd. However I think that Mr Salmond would be nuts to pass up this opportunity to form the Excecutive. He should accept that a referendum on independence needs to be put off in this Parliament in order to get into power, to demonstrate to the Scottish people that the SNP can govern. I would think most of SNP voters would understand such an important compromise in order to secure the coalition with the LibDems (anf the Greens) and enter a majority Executive: he would of course need to explain such a position in full in relevant speeches to the electorate.

13

Boyce,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 07:40:29

10

Since when was majority rule a priority for Unionists? go look up the meaning of the phrase gerrymandering and while you at it go look up the vote counts of the last 10 UK general elections and see how long we have been governed by minority governments.
And then consider what a complete prat you are for posting stupid statement like that one.

14

Goat Boy,

06/05/2007 07:45:47

Beware - the Golgothan has been put into a position of power.

15

mariac,

Dunfermline 06/05/2007 07:52:18

There is no way that the Lib Dems could agree to a referendum after being so staunch on the issue during the campaign. People may have voted for them on the basis that they wouldn't and to roll over and change their minds now would just be political suicide.

Whether they should have taken that line in the first place is a matter of debate - I have no problem with the idea of a referendum although I have no faith in the Labour Party to campaign responsibly during it, however. You could be forgiven for thinking, from the way they campaigned during the recent election that if the SNP won, Alex Salmond would be on your doorstep demanding your firstborn for breakfast.

16

lachlan,

06/05/2007 07:58:40

#10 is not adout 85% of 'eligible scots' who would like a choice of a referendum on independence .the lib dems stated during election run no to a referendum and lost votes

17

howyoudoingboy,

englandish 06/05/2007 08:07:23

i will tell you boy

while alec salmon is surrounded by by his schiltron in his braveheart role (a rather tubby one i might add)
waiting the charge of the English heavy horse

i will tell you boy two things
number one if and when he becomes the first minister
and he takes the oath he will be taking the kings shilling and will from that day forward and forever become the kings man in Scotland (know your history boy) that will known as the day the dream of independence died
number two you can expect barrow loads of gold to be heading north from London enough to fill the mouths of the SNP boyos to their rims and as the saying goes there many a Scotsman bought and sold for English gold (and all the glittering prizes) know your history boy THAT AULD BOOK IS CLOSED

and alex salmon fish will be the one to sit on it

Au revoir as they say in govan (pish)

18

howyoudoingboy,

englandish 06/05/2007 08:09:08

as Winston Churchill once said


ALONE THEN

19

AlexOg,

Argyll 06/05/2007 08:15:34

Lachlan's view that the LibDems lost votes because they campaigned on no referendum is a pretty feeble argument. It is also true to say that they campaigned on no nuclear power stations and lost votes!

20

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:46:41

According to the opinion polls between 60% and 80% of the Scottish PEOPLE want a referendum on independence.

Let's let the people decide, anyone who is against that democratic move should not be in politics.

This election saw the most scaremongering alarmist garbage EVER about independence, but most people still chose the SNP and the Liberals should recognise that fact.

The Lib Dems have feel into fourth place behind the discredited Tories. We don't need a new talking shop constitutional convention, we need a choice on independence.

If the Lib Dems have genuine proposals for more powers lets hear them but a Westminster Government would not accept any vote for more powers, but they would have to accept a vote on independence.

If we want to use our ample oil wealth to rebuild our country we need to move to independence in the shortest possible timescale. We need to ask the people if they want it and that democratic choice should not be blocked by unionists who have enjoyed a ridiculous advantage due to our horribly biased media.

Yes OF COURSE the media wants the SNP to park independence, what else is new?

The Scottish people do not, they want a vote on the issue (whether they support independence or not) and politicians of all parties should accept and respect that.

http://www.scottishindependence.com

21

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 08:47:29

MING CAMPBELL AND BROWN INTERVENING IN SCOTTISH ELECTION:

From the Sunday Herald today:

The democratic fear, however, is that they (Lib Dems) will do that deal with Labour, driven not by concern for what is best for Scotland's parliament, but by concerns that lie in Westminster. There are indications that LibDems national leader Menzies Campbell and prime minister-in-waiting Gordon Brown have been discussing how best to work together to keep the SNP out.
Herald Editorial - 5th May 2007
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This cannot be allowed to happen. The Scottish Lib Dems and the SNP must be allowed to come to a deal on their own terms.

A crooked deal Between Gordon Brown and Menzies Campbell to force the Scottish Lib Dems and Scottish Labour to work together is unacceptable.

If Salmond goes all the way and agrees to postpone the referendum option until the next parliament and the Lib Dems *still* walk away then we will know that the Westminster parties have intervened and decided on behalf of the Scottish electorate, which is simply unethical.

The people now expect a SNP-Lib Dem coalition, either with a referendum option or with that option postponed, if that be the price.

In a Scottish election, the Scottish parties, or the Scottish branch of those parties, should be left to negociate on their own terms!

22

Gtj,

Dundee 06/05/2007 08:51:59

The Liberals are a disgrace. They seem prepared to throw away all the good policies they and the SNP have in common for the benefit of the scottish people, just to prevent the scottish people having their say on independece.

Who do they think they are. If they blow this I would be suprised if they get much support in the future, even from their existing base of voters.

23

SouthernSkye,

06/05/2007 09:03:26

Whatever ones political view is, I found the following information enlightening when listening to Rad4 yesterday....

LibDem....."We will do what is best for the Scottish Liberal Democrats...."

Scottish Labour......"We now have to consider what is best for the Scottish Labour Party in light of this result"......

SNP....."We will put party politics aside and try to work with the other parties to ensure, whatever happens, is best for the country, best for Scotland"....

24

nicci,

gordon 06/05/2007 09:03:34

Note the press now claiming snp won by one vote - I understood they won by 50000 votes and a seat. Slight difference there. A blatant attempt to play down the significance of snp win. The media should be kept out of electioneering, its a disgrace. I wont be buying any more newspapers.

25

Roy,

06/05/2007 09:12:19

There are no doubt many reasons why the LibDems might not want to go into coalition with the SNP, but the referendum issue is a bizarre one for a party which claims to be both liberal and democratic.

26

Rab McClair,

FREE (TO LIE TO) SCOTLAND ...?????? 06/05/2007 09:26:49

#18@19 Howyoudoin'boy

You don't half write THE maist appalling trash!
.........shut up and get back into the gym to keep that adonis-like figure of yours in trim for YOUR campaign as Scotland's saviour !!
Yer a puddin' mate !!

(I have telt you boy !!)

27

RTL,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 09:50:46

I absolutely agree with the wise words of Stevek (post 13) ....... and Alex Salmond & the SNP should very seriously consider that postition

"Mr Salmond would be nuts to pass up this opportunity to form the Excecutive. He should accept that a referendum on independence needs to be put off in this Parliament in order to get into power, to demonstrate to the Scottish people that the SNP can govern."

I do not want Independence, but I wanted Labour and the Lib Dems even less, the SNP have now got the chance to prove themselves...Lets see them do it!

28

Night Owl,

Edinburgh Scotland 06/05/2007 10:00:19

I really don't want Scotland to be classed as some "Banana Republic" by the international community. Never mind about all this wheeling and dealing re-do these elections again ASAP.

29

howyoudoingboy,

englandish 06/05/2007 10:41:29

rab mclair

no referendum
no independence
no ending of the union

one queen
one parliament
one people

you dont know your own history it was a scotsman who closed that AULD BOOK

i am not going to the gym till the end of the week i am just of for a wee swally wi me english and scotish pals

thats what i am telling you boy

30

SouthernSkye,

06/05/2007 10:46:57

#29 AM2.
That may well be correct (as you state) however, from a simple political point of view, WHY do the Libs and Lab insist on coming over as selfish? On national (even international radio if you include radio4 via web) and they only refer to what is best for their party. It is this kind of thoughtless statement via (inter)national media that helps alienate voters such as I and turn them to looking for an alternative to their selfish ramblings.

31

JamesT,

Austria 06/05/2007 10:51:57

the people of Scotland will never forgive the LIBs if they don't stop this arrogance, Scotland has voted and its about time they took notice. come on Alex sort the puppets OOT.

32

Ronnie W,

06/05/2007 10:52:44

#16

"There is no way that the Lib Dems could agree to a referendum after being so staunch on the issue during the campaign. People may have voted for them on the basis that they wouldn't and to roll over and change their minds now would just be political suicide."

The situation for the Lib-Dems is far more compicated than you may think. When I saw the list results for the Highlands & Islands I realised something very strange had happened because the Libs and the SNP had 4 conctituency seats each there. 2 SNP list seats, no Lib!

On checking, the list vote for the SNP was massive - 64,000 to 37,000 for the Libs. A huge number of people must have voted for their sitting member (who happened to be Lib-Dem), then voted Alex Salmond for First Minister.

If I were in the Lib-Dem's position I would be looking over my shoulder very carefully at those who had voted for me. What will these people think, and, more importantly, do, if the Lib-Dems don't support an SNP administration?

33

Neil,

9% Growth 06/05/2007 11:17:45

The other way of putting that Ronnie is that a vast number of people lent their vote to Salmond just to get rid of Labour & are likely to revert if they just start picking a fight with England for the sake of it. It has been suggested that Salmond's best hope of independence is to so p*** off the English, who on polls seem considerably more keen on separation than we, that independence is forced on us. This would be a high risk strategy.

34

Ronnie W,

The Far Blue Yonder 06/05/2007 11:42:41

#37

My point, Neil, was exactly that people, realising that a list vote for the Lib-Dems wasn't going to get rid of Labour, gave their vote to the SNP. These were people that the Lib-Dems like to think of as a secure powerbase for themselves. The vote shows:

1) the power base is not as secure as they like to think, and

2) "their" voters want to see the back of Labour in Edinburgh.

The people in the Highlands are usually loyal to their sitting MP, but as Argyll has just shown, for the Lib-Dems to take liberties with their clearly expressed wishes would be folly in the extreme.

It is all very well for Ming Campbell to sit in London and issue orders as the what the party in Scotland will or will not do, but it is time for more analytical heads in Scotland to override the posturing and arrogance from London.

35

Gtj,

Dundee 06/05/2007 12:07:54

The Liberals will never be forgiven for there inflexible stance on a watered down referendum in their favour. They can only go down hill from here.

36

Doh,

06/05/2007 12:38:15

Tavish Scott has just ruled out a coalition deal with Labour - so that will have the unionist conspiracy negheads in a spin.

So the choices will be an SNP/LibDem coalition or SNP alone. Personally I dont really think it will make much difference.

The SNP face enormous difficulties in bridging their spending commitments and remaining pro-business and the economy. Thats would is a tough task for any government.

The SNP will also have to keep togther their internal coalition of pragmatists and zealots - tensions will rise and it is likely as in the previous parliaments that there will be defections.


It is going to be an interesting 4 years.

37

Would-be divorcee,

Aberdeen 06/05/2007 12:50:14

I suggest we have a referendum posing the question ...

"Do you wish to take part in a referendum on Scottish independence ?"

This lets everyone off the hook - but still provides a democratic approach

38

Gordon, Canonmills,

06/05/2007 13:09:04

42. Would-be divorcee

:-)

Good one!

39

Spotter,

06/05/2007 13:17:26

yes although most parties did not back full independence they did back more powers
how do we get that - a multi option referendum and let the people choose what powers they want in Scotland

40

LinBP,

West Lothian 06/05/2007 13:35:12

The LibDems have been in a coalition with Labour, a party which opposes it on the major issue of local taxation (and presumably still would be if Labour had been the party with the largest number of seats). So how come they cannot form a coalition with the SNP when the vast majority of their policies (including local taxation) are not too far apart?

41

Leonardo da Vinci,

Italy 06/05/2007 13:37:37

The key issue is a devolved Parliament (with more powers, if any) vs. separation. Any coalition without an agreement on this issue shall not work in the long run.
The ambiguity is due to the fact that devolution was supported by "devolutionists" and separatists, as well.
Pro Union parties have behaved in Scotland as they were in England, leaving the political initiative to the SNP and its very clever leader Alex Salmond.
In this frame unionists must win always, while for separatist is sufficient to win just once. SNP will try to choose its momentum to fix the date for holding a referendum.
It should be time for the unionists'parties AND for Westmister to take the deal on the issue of Scotland statuswithin the UK.
Should a referundum on separation from the rest of UK be hold right now, separatists would likely be defeated.
Leonardo da Vinci
Italy

42

Gtj,

Dundee 06/05/2007 13:41:50

That could be the answer. Let Alex form a minority gvernment and propose a multi option referendum that has all the parties options available ie.

Labour - No change,
Tory - More power,
Libs - More power,
SNP - Independence

If the other parties block this then they obviously do not have much faith in their voters and fear that the people might want to govern themselves.

Not giving the people their right to vote on this including SNP and their support will let everyone see them for what they are - repressive, and this would only benefit the SNP in the future.

43

weilian,

hk 06/05/2007 14:26:33

It's a misnomer to say 85% never voted for independence. Nearly half never bothered to vote at all, which shows they're obviously not too fussed either way.

Equally, the question of independence is never going to be the only factor affecting how people vote in a national election.

That's why a referendum on constitutional change - giving the people all the options available - is absolutely imperative.

True unionists are a dying breed, in my experience. The one thing putting most Scots off the Big Divorce is not that they don't like the idea -- they simply lack confidence that it will work. Little wonder, after three centuries of being told that it can't.

Give us three years of measured, sensible rule, working in collaboration for the best interests of the nation. Step up to the mark, newly elected MSPs, and show the people and the rest of the world that Scots are mature enough to run our own affairs, and we don't need our hands held anymore.

Do that, and the confidence will flood back - as it has already started to do since '99.

44

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow 06/05/2007 14:47:13

As the 3rd party the Conservatives cannot stand back and allow the 4th party Lib/Dems and the 2nd party Labour to form the Government. They should ensure that the 1st party SNP forms the new administration and thereafter deal on an issue by issue basis. This would be democratic.

45

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 06/05/2007 15:10:30

The SNP should go it alone with the full support of all those who voted for them. The lib dems are taking an unhealthy and undemocratic approach to Scotlands future and have therefore given up the right to any form of power sharing. What do the SNP have to lose?...

46

amck,

Stirlingshire 06/05/2007 15:46:30

The Liberals would be wise to support a referendum. It'd be a way to get what they want. More powers!

Would it read?

Put an X next to the option you support

Independence []
More Powers []
Tick here to Spoil you vote []

47

Chuck.U.Farley,

Pàrtaidh Nàiseanta Alba 06/05/2007 15:53:53

Where is my posting?

48

Doh,

06/05/2007 16:05:15

Tavish Scott has ruled out a LibDem coalition with the Labour party.

I just wish he had said this before the election rather than after it!

I think this clear statement would have won the LibDems more votes and maybe helped them another couple of seats.

The LibDem campaign was very weak and poor. Must do better next time!

49

BIG EYE,

Paisley 06/05/2007 16:08:51

There appears to be no mention of the other option available to the SNP, namely to announce another election in a few weeks time.

Given that the SNP could almost certainly raise the money and the others parties are skint AND that the Lib Dems would almost certainly be wiped off the map AND the disgraceful way Labour have behaved in proving themselves to be exremely bad losers AND the fact that Salmond has won the election and has not eaten any children yet would seem to me a very good opportunity to amass even more support for the SNP.

The Lib Dems are playing with fire!

50

buzzer,

06/05/2007 16:24:42

There will be marches organised by those of us who feel really annoyed that a small party can deny us the right to a referendum. Any one want to join us

51

Doh,

06/05/2007 16:38:20

#56 buzzer

Which small party is denying you a referendum? The 46 Labour MSPS?
The 17 tory MSPS? The 16 LibDem MSPS?

They didnt campaign for a referendum which should they support one now?

There are two small parties in favour of a referendum together they have 49 MSPS.

The people of Scotland have spoken,
accept it, they dont want a referendum.

52

Trevor,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 16:49:07

#38

Interesting point of view. In both the constituency and regional ballots the SNP polled the most votes. Yet the result is unjustified? Please explain!

What IS wrong is Labour winning 37 FPTP seats to SNP's 21 - despite getting less votes overall. It's time... to move to STV for all elections in Scotland.

53

Sanny,

Portugal 06/05/2007 16:59:00

In opposing a referendum the LibDems are being neither Liberal nor Democratic! Surely democracy demands that the people’s voice should be heard. They need to be aware that the electorate will note their approach and the slight rap on the knuckles they have had for cosying up to the failed Labour party will be as nothing to the drubbing they will get if they are seen to be standing in the way of progress.

If as is claimed there is no appetite for Independence then what do they stand to lose? Whereas, if they agree and a referendum is held, they are at liberty to campaign against it. Or is that in truth what they are afraid of?

I do not accept that the SNP should (or will) set aside such a fundamental part of the manifesto and their very reason for being. Indeed I believe the SNP should adopt the Wallace moto: -
Dico tibi verum, libertas optimum rerum, nunquam servili sub nexu, vivito fili.
I tell you the truth, the best of all things is freedom, never son, live under the bonds of slavery.

In my opinion, if the LD’s continue with their obdurate attitude, then the SNP should try to run as a minority government. This will force the LD’ to either support those SNP policies that are also contained in their manifesto, with all kudos going the SNP, or by opposing them, destroy their own credibility. I believe that is known as being on the horns of a dilemma.

I’m certain Salmond, being the most astute politician in the UK today, is well aware that the LD’ have painted themselves into a corner.

54

Sanny,

Portugal 06/05/2007 17:10:37

In opposing a referendum the LibDems are being neither Liberal nor Democratic! Surely democracy demands that the people’s voice should be heard. They need to be aware that the electorate will note their approach and the slight rap on the knuckles they have had for cosying up to the failed Labour party will be as nothing to the drubbing they will get if they are seen to be standing in the way of progress.

If as is claimed there is no appetite for Independence then what do they stand to lose? Whereas, if they agree and a referendum is held, they are at liberty to campaign against it. Or is that in truth what they are afraid of?

I do not accept that the SNP should (or will) set aside such a fundamental part of the manifesto and their very reason for being. Indeed I believe the SNP should adopt the Wallace moto: -
Dico tibi verum, libertas optimum rerum, nunquam servili sub nexu, vivito fili.
I tell you the truth, the best of all things is freedom, never son, live under the bonds of slavery.

In my opinion, if the LD’s continue with their obdurate attitude, then the SNP should try to run as a minority government. This will force the LD’ to either support those SNP policies that are also contained in their manifesto, with all kudos going the SNP, or by opposing them, destroy their own credibility. I believe that is known as being on the horns of a dilemma.

I’m certain Salmond, being the most astute politician in the UK today, is well aware that the LD’ have painted themselves into a corner.

55

buzzer,

06/05/2007 17:16:13

#Doh What are you scared off; a positive result for independence perhaps. Oh BTW those who did not vote because they were disenchanted with the political parties may well want a referendum on independence. Have a nice day

56

McCracken,

Granville 06/05/2007 17:48:54

Is it me, or are the Lib Dems waiting around to see if Labour can mount a successful recount of Cunningham North? It seems strange they're not moving faster into negotiations with the SNP.

Alex

57

"Suck"-=-McCrunchie,

Disenfranchised in the banana republic 06/05/2007 17:56:46

.

58

JD,

06/05/2007 18:39:10

When will the People of Scotland be allowed to make a decision???
At the end of it all.. it will be down to a vote... Do the "majority" want INDEPENDENCE?

That is all the "Referendum" is... Just a VOTE..

Why do LD and others fear this...???

59

Dumyat,

Dorset 06/05/2007 19:05:32

As a expat Scottish Conservative, I have only praise for the statesman-like conduct of Alex Salmond whose TV address - to the world - even before the results were confirmed, showed courage, perception and political sophistication. If he is to be the future, political voice of Scotland, that future promises great things for a much-admired nation whose enterprise and individuality have been under-played or mis-appropriated for too long. There are battles looming, but support from fellow-countrymen at home and abroad is assured if they have any sense of excitement and imagination in pursuing a new political and cultural path. The current provinciality of the Edinburgh political mentality, however, has somehow to be overcome.

60

Rob me blind,

06/05/2007 19:07:37

What a sell out already!!!!!!!!!!!!

61

New Town Resident,

06/05/2007 19:11:30

Of course we should have a referendum to settle it, it's in everybody's interest.

But what is the debate about? Its just about how much more power should be returned from the Union government to Scotland alone,

none, some, or all of it - right?

No-one in this debate is talking about Scotland giving back power to the Union government.

But meantime Bliar is going off to the European summit to hand over even more power to the EU. English power, Scottish power, who cares, he is still handing it over. Its not about taking some back, he's giving yet more away.

Yet this seems to be perfectly OK with the SNP. No protest, let alone any calls for a referendum.

Surely some inconsistency here? I'm confused. Could a SNP supporter please explain why they are happy with this. Why not have a question about handing Scottish powers away to the EU also?

62

RogueNun,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 19:13:23

Dont you get it?!?!?!

The union is past its sell by date!!

Neither the english or Scottish want the union anymore, and we certainly don't want YOUR queen, you colonialist clown.

63

Iain More,

Moray 06/05/2007 19:42:09

So the Fib Dems are feeling a wee bit bruised at the moment - tough!
They were lucky they did not lose more seats! Lets have a re run so they can get thier just desserts! Wiped out!
I guess we will not get a re run as the Lib Dems are obviously running scared of anything that remotely looks like democracy in action!
Its time to stop being gentle with them! The Scottish nation cant afford thier sensitivities! We need action now! They were elected to do a job of work to improve the Scottish nation - they obviously think that they were elected to sit on thier ever so tender as!!!!!!

64

Iain More,

Moray 06/05/2007 19:51:38

I just heard on the radio news that the Fib Dems will not do a deal! Is this true?

65

Iain More,

Moray 06/05/2007 19:52:53

Minortity SNP abmin! Screw the Fibs!

66

Iain More,

Moray 06/05/2007 20:06:24

Fib Dems - Go back to your constituenncies and prepare for extinction!

67

Arthur,

White Rose County 06/05/2007 20:13:54

As a Scot living in England, probably until 2015 at least, Would the SNP or any other supporter with cash to spare be interested i
funding me and my non extravagent life style, in founding an English Nationalist Party
There are 10 times more of them than us, therefore 10 times as many separitists
there are certainly many more who want to give us wingeing Scots the boot out of simply ignorance of the facts of the situation.

68

LiviJambo,

Livingston 06/05/2007 20:18:41

The union has long been past its sell by date, the scottish people have said that out loud to Tony Bliar now. We certainly don't want a GERMAN monarch ruling a place she has no interest in, as a matter of fact, she should really hate us because of the auld alliance with France. Yes, believe it or not, the auld alliance is still "legally binding", even today.

Anyway, point being, the SNP won, fair and square, and the Lib Dems, Labour and the Tories should just put up with the vote of Scotland and get on with it. The Lib Dems are standing in the way of progress and, in my opinion, being petty in their views. The SNP polled 48% (Or something like that) of the vote on Thursday, this being larger than any other party.

They rightfully won the most seats (although only due to the PR part of the voting system).

I still believe it's ridiculous that FPTP is used here when it clearly produces a "minority" government (Just look at Labour down south with 39% of the vote and 52% of the seats). Although the SNP were short changed by the voting system, they still came out on top.

Anyway, I support a referendum on independence but believe that the SNP should put it on the back burner to prove to the Scottish people that they are capable of running Scotland. The referendum is important, but it could be postponed to allow power.

I'm a gradualist and believe in Alex Salmond's policies, I don't care if the Lib Dems support them.

After all, as one writer posted earlier, the Lib Dems policies are so similar to the SNP's that even if they don't form a coalition, they may well end up voting in favour of the SNP's policies, hence rendering their position as opposition pointless.

And, what? Are they scared that the people of Scotland may just want to rule themselves?

I worry for the future.

I, as an SNP voter, would understand the need for Alex Salmond to postpone any referendum on independence for a short time, but

69

LiviJambo,

Livingston 06/05/2007 20:20:58

Bit of a catch 22 situation for the Lib Dems eh?

70

ayrshie,

Drongan,Ayrshire 06/05/2007 20:25:35

After reading a lot of the threads on here we all seem to be missing something . There is a political party sitiing on the sidelines "the lib-dems" dictating what and what not is good for the people of Scotland.
Whatever your political slant doesn't it stike you as a bit obnoxious that we "the people" have just told them through the ballot box what we want and that is an SNP administration in Hollyrood and for a shower of chancers to undermine that for their own political ends gets right up my F nose.
PR was designed by the liberals to start with and got nowhere and then that other lot the SDP joined up with them in a desperate attempt to get into sharing power one way or the other and the end result of all that interbreeding is the most mongerel political party that we are ever likely to see in Scotland.
We have just voted out the most corrupt labour administration that Scotland has ever seen and still the libdems stand in the way of policies that both they and the SNP have in common and in the meantime Scotland is in Limbo.
The system is rotten to the core , we have MINGING Campbell pumping his gums from the other side of the border , we have Cathy J up here struggling to pull the numpty Joke from the political shit and we had a secretary of state for Scotland David Alexander and his partner in crime David Cairns in a blatant attempt to rig an election in their favour.
I dont know about you guys but Scotland deserves better than this and the standard of political morality in Scotland leaves a foul stench in the air.

Alex Salmond , go it alone if you have to as the Scottish people will thank you for it if we have to go prematurely again to the ballot box because another party held the Scottish people to ransom. If that happens I would expect to see a lib-dem wipe out in Scotland.

As for the afore mentioned Alexander and Cairns I hope when the proverbial shit hits the fan in any judicia

71

LiviJambo,

Livingston 06/05/2007 20:25:50

In fact, many people don't know this, but Scotland has had a referendum on independence already!

It was held in 1979 i believe, and with a 60(-ish)% turnout, the answer was a resounding yes, but the Tory government of the time denied us our legal right by saying that the turnout was too low.

There you go. Just proves how things always come back to haunt political parties.

72

ayrshie,

Drongan,Ayrshire 06/05/2007 20:43:36

#48 weilian

A very true and sensible assesment of the political situation in Scotland.

73

LiviJambo,

Livingston 06/05/2007 21:00:11

Well, it seams we now have an SNP minority executive.

On you go Alex Salmond, prove your point.

As I said earlier, i believe that the SNP and the Lib Dems will end up in a sort of "unofficial coalition" anyway since their policies are very similar.

74

Arthur,

White Rose County 06/05/2007 21:28:41

76) I think most people over 40 remember that denial of democracy only too well.
I can't remember the turnout figure for it
but the catch was the vote in favour had to be a 2/3 majority, and we didn't quite make it. It was a denial of democracy because the treaty of union states that if a majority of either nation wished to separate then it would be so, by that reckoning we should have been independent by 1980. It was a denial of democracy because in every other vote or referendum before or since a simple majority has sufficed, there was no precedent for it, so by my reckoning the SNP has held the moral right to democratic rule since then.

75

Arthur,

White Rose County 06/05/2007 21:43:08

74) The Auld Alliance was apparently rescinded in the Treaty of Edinburgh in the early 1500's
Yes to most of your other points

76

william john,

ayr 06/05/2007 21:55:47

Stick with the SNP they are the new Goon Show a laugh a minute. Trouble is they are a expensive laugh wih uncosted policies.

77

,

06/05/2007 22:01:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 598584, Article id was mapped to record!
78

Iain More,

Moray 06/05/2007 22:07:36

How long before thier is a challange to Nicol Stephen?
They surely cant all be sheep!? Mind you there is less of them to choose from after Thursdays results!
Also any candidates will have to suck some part of Mings anatomy first! So there probably will not be a challange and they will become extinct soon! Inability to adapt to changing conditions! Unwilling to accept that Scotland needs and wants change! Otherwise they would have voted Tory!

79

Iain More,

Moray 06/05/2007 22:11:16

82 Arthur!

81 is from Ayr - where they are a little slow mentally(look at the vote from Ayr on thursday) - bioling his heid would serve no purpose as there is no brain to boil!

80

jayceebee,

06/05/2007 22:35:16

ye are a godless race. reap what you sow.

81

Trevor,

Edinburgh 06/05/2007 23:19:09

It's time... for Alex to cobble together all the best policies from the other parties and take credit for the lot.

82

Iain More,

Moray! 07/05/2007 01:30:50

re 88

Well said Drongan!

I expect Alexander is looking for a get away that does not have an extradition treaty with UK! I guess Jack has some good friends in Malawi or maybe even Zimbabwe! Labour in Scotland are starting to make Robert Mugabe look benign!
I am almost tempted to bring back public executions just for him but I beleive that we should be more humane to those less able than ourselves!
Although in this case I could make an exception!

Can we put out Wanted Posters Tomorrow? Offering a reward for his capture! Since he has not been seen in public lately!

83

carolrtw,

07/05/2007 03:48:43

I really don't understand what the lib dems problem is or anyone whose opposed to the referendum for that matter. I, for one, haven't made up my mind about independence yet and so don't know how I'll vote if & when we get the opportunity. I just wanted to have a different party in power than Westminster and now we do. Let's see what differences SNP can make to Scotland for the next couple of years (and this is what they should concentrate on, not the referendum) then see if independence would be beneficial. Either way we should get the opportunity to vote for or against. After all that's what democracies all about.

84

sgar,

glasgow 07/05/2007 05:34:02

I would have considered the election on 3 May was a comment on independence. The unwillingness to accept this view is typical of the SNP and their desire to secure power - for whatever reason is not quite clear. I think this will be confirmed by the various options that the Great Eck will propose and which will see him discard his 'principles' and beliefs in order to gain this power.
SNP supporters have always been ready to attack and blame others - and so because their message was not accepted by sufficient numbers of the elctorate then lets blame the LibDems . Margaret McDonald will be next!

85

sgar,

07/05/2007 08:26:13

I would have considered the election on 3 May was a comment on independence. The unwillingness to accept this view is typical of the SNP and and their desire to secure power - for whatever reason is not quite clear. I think this will be confirmed by the various options that the Great Eck will propose and which will see him discard his 'principles' and beliefs in order to gain this power.
SNP supporters have always been ready to attack and blame others - and so because their message was not accepted by sufficient numbers of the elctorate then lets blame the LibDems . Margaret McDonald will be next!

86

Arthur,

07/05/2007 08:33:26

92) What a load of politically niave self serving undemocratic twaddle.
The SNP WON and are the largest party by one seat in a rigged election. Only the Tories ie the former political party, formerly known as the Conservative and UNOINIST party wish to maintain full union. Because of this stance they are now a pathetic rump of a party in Scotland
All the other agree on devolution, it is only the degree where they differ. Would this not suggest to any intelligent democrat that the groundswell is toward further devolution at least. So you are right it was a positive comment on independence and the SNP have been given a chance to see what they can do. I suspect the electorate are saying we want change, but we are wary of full independence, let's see what the SNP can do and if they do well they will get a mandate for independence next time round. They have the moral right to try at the very least.
I cannot understand the Lib/Dems stance as they are in favour of federalism, and referenda and independence cannot happen right now, if they continue to block
they will be seen to be as undemocratic
power mad and controlling as the others and will pay the price for it in the long run.
The SNP would be well advised to go it alone, the others would be well advised to give them their head if they wish to be viewed in a more favourable light by the electorate.
It may be that another election would have to be called sonner rather than later, but not now, and not until after an enquiry and the SNP have had a chance to get some of their policies effected.
I suspect this is what will happen and if any other player behaves negativly they will be shown for what they are and will pay the price.

87

Transparent?,

Scotland 07/05/2007 10:00:53

Alex Salmond and the SNP are entitled to their opinion. So too are Nicol Stephen and the Lib-Dems, Annabel Goldie and the Tories, Jack McConnell and the Labour Party and any other party you care to mention, unless you support the SNP and don't believe anyone else should have a different opinion from your own.

They have won the largest number of MSPs but have yet to win the hearts and minds of the Scottish people. Perhaps, IN TIME, they will learn but don't hold your breath.

We all get what we deserve and the SNP are no exception.

88

puskas,

East Kilbride 07/05/2007 10:56:42

No. 3

Explain to me what is extremist about freedom from the yoke that London doesn't give us?.

Many like myself who are nationalist are extremely mild natured people who wish nothing more than allowing us Scots to govern ourselves...
Indeed we wish to enter the world map of free nations throwing out the hand of friendship to all and sundry...

Extremists hardly, I would suggest to you that many if not all unionists are more that way inclined...

Again ;
Now how do you define extremist ?.... Think closely about what you may print.

89

puskas,

East Kilbride 07/05/2007 10:59:18

No 10...

How do you know this ?... Have we had a referendum recently that none of us took part in... Including yourself .

90

puskas,

East Kilbride 07/05/2007 11:14:55

No 18

Excuse me ...

What a case for independence you spout....

What you say has been happening throughout the centuries by quisling Scots....

Our country is full of them in power either in Holyrood or London...

Eventually Scotland will be free of the upstarts that sold their sole for the English gold and a Scottish FREE government and MSP's could then not be accused of what you write.... No party who would be in power would then be accused of what to have said .. Easy isn't it.

By the way your language lets you down when attempting debate. Typical of a neaderthal unionist...
Sorry I reply in this manner but you must admit its mild compared to your slang regards a gentleman.

91

puskas,

East Kilbride 07/05/2007 11:23:56

Some of the debate going on is wide open mouth stuff..
Personally I think we should see how talks settle as there are to many issues at stake to pre-guess.

As an ex-Labour supporter all I will say is that the SNP will come out of this stronger than even now..

Minging and the pension snatcher down in London it seems have their dirty paws in the pie...
Independence would put the stop on the gravy train down to London and Broon's ambitions for himself ,but not Scotland's.

92

MoragMcV,

ALVA 07/05/2007 12:25:29

Tight corners are the best place to devise new and creative solutions.
A majority of one is a tight corner.
Coalition or minority government, are these really the only solutions?

The best place to start discussions is on points of AGREEMENT.
Could not Alec Salmond therefore first of all sit down with the leaders of all parties, after all they are all elected representatives of the people, and set out a programme of issues common to all their platforms.
Drug free streets, Health, Poll tax, etc

After debate, there could be compromise, consensus, coalition, in order to get solutions within a time scale agreed with the presiding officer. Annabel Goldie has already said she would decided ssue by issue.

We have said that in Scotland we want consensus government, not the Wullie fecht? in the red corner, and Wullie No! in the blue corner of Westminster ,which formal coalition, by preformed divisions into government and opposition implies.

There might even be delegation. On the drugs issue why not set one party to do all the research on the 'lock em up side, in discussion with police and courts , and report back, another party to lookat the provision of drugs treatment services, and report back, etc to decide in plenary how the finances could be distributed. Wouldn't it be a great legacy for an all party government if we had drug free streets to add to smoke free pubs in Scotland.

I am not a political guru but I would be grateful if somebody in the know could give me a serious answer to the question I have raised above.
And could the press ,and everybody else please take a rain check on the most divisive issue, that of the referendum, till that is necessary at the end of this session!

93

puskas,

East Kilbride 07/05/2007 12:41:01

Hi Morag... 100

Pleasantly written and posters would agree with many points you mention..
I fear though a good many policies that could be agreed are scuppered before talks can start.
An example and probably the best one is the future independance referendum.
You would have thought that the issues the Lib Dem have in similarity could have been a good starting point but as you probably know that has been ruled out of order by Minging and the pension robber...Democracy what a laugh .
The 2 from London's jobs would bi oot thi door in an Independent Scotland.

A pleasure replying Morag...

94

Strombus,

Grand Cayman 08/05/2007 08:32:37

Perhaps it just looks like inconsistency and double standards from the Liberal leadership.... Although, as I recall, there was no impediment to forming a coalition in the past, with Labour - when the two parties were diametrically opposed on the very significant issue of Nuclear Weapons - and it was clear that their respective policies could not be reconciled. Is it just possible that on this occasion, the 'blocking stance' is being dictated by Liberals in Westminster, rather than in Holyrood?

95

pwd,

Borders 08/05/2007 08:53:32

21 Joe M

We've already had a vote and c70% of voters have said NO to independence. Scots simply DO NOT WANT an independent Scotland. We are British. It's time to face the facts and get down to what matters: restoring the character of the Scottish people; modernising and ditching once and for all the haggis, kilt and pseudo Gaelic music hall image; getting back to work; relearning how to speak and write English, etc, etc.

Preoccupation with another referendum when we had one on May 3rd is mere obfuscation.

96

Birnamo,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 09:30:54

Just what is the Brown imminence going to do to harness his fifedom to his Westminster career ?

He is probably in a bigger difficulty than Alex Salmond since an election could solve the West Lothian question for him.

First devolution and then the SNP, have quickly brought the reality of modern government and democracy as opposed to whipped everything as the normal exercise of party power.

Perhaps the bind facing Alex Salmond, of no absolute control, is really quite healthy where ALL ELECTED MSPs can represent the will of their constituents.

This could do more to engage the electorate with Scottish Government than party bullying.

I suspect that Alex Salmond knows this and may see the dangers of an earlier than expected new election with rather less trepidation than some.

Just think what it would be like with parties representing their interests without the power to dump the votes of those who think differently for their electorate.

Issue by issue Government has yet to be understood by our parties but proportional representation and devolution perhaps makes this the future.


 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.