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Trump's Antrim visit raises golf plan fears

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Published Date: 23 December 2007
By Eddie Barnes
DONALD Trump is set to visit to Northern Ireland next month, amid concern among business leaders in Scotland that the tycoon is preparing to ditch his golf course plans for Aberdeenshire and take them across the Irish Sea.
Ian Paisley Jnr, the son of Northern Ireland's First Minister Ian Paisley, told Scotland on Sunday that Trump had been invited in January. The billionaire property developer has an option on land in County Antrim and is expected to make a trip there
before deciding whether to buy.

Sources close to the negotiations say that the Trump organisation is not limiting itself to an "either-or", in which it would choose one of Northern Ireland or Scotland for a new course.

But there are growing fears among business chiefs who support his plans that the political storm which has been caused by the Trump deal in Scotland could send the developer elsewhere.

Paisley Jnr said: "I don't think this is an either-or situation. We have invited Mr Trump to come to Northern Ireland and we hope that will happen in the New Year."

Meanwhile, Geoff Runcie, chief executive of Aberdeen & Grampian Chamber of Commerce, has warned that Scotland has "played out an amateur production on the world's stage".

He said: "Our big name star – Donald Trump – has auditioned and made known his ambitions for the show but has come to the stage only to find himself playing alongside the amateur dramatics team. The words of our bard Robert Burns 'to see ourselves as others see us' have clearly not registered with many and we still put petty and party politics before serious economic opportunity."

First Minister Alex Salmond is facing a parliamentary inquiry in the New Year into his handling of the deal.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 22 December 2007 7:20 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

Spotter,

22/12/2007 23:41:53
truth is salmond just cannot lose on this

if Trump goes the Libs Tories and Labour wil pay a truly massive price

if trump comes folk thank Salmond

again the opposition give Alex a win win win situation :-)
2

Thorson ,

Ottawa , Canada 23/12/2007 01:02:52

Sure enough Salmond and his lads will be in a win-win situation for the first few days after Trump decides to head for Antrim. But one month later and in particular the night before the next Holyrood election most Scots will realize that ditching his grandiose scheme was good riddance to bad rubbish.
3

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 23/12/2007 08:58:09
#3
Nature Conservation Act - I presume was in force whilst Menie was still a shooting estate.
SSSI - red herring he is not developing Foveran or Forvie. If you have ever been to Blairton, Petten or Menie Links you will know what I mean.

The role of Holyrood in planning applications is more transparent now than ever. Nicol Stephen and the bendy AWPR. Wendy's sidekicks in bed with generous property developers - no public outcry from the ecofreaks then

BTW - how is Sustainable Aberdeenshire getting on with buying Trump out. News on handouts yet ?
4

V1cR,

edinburgh 23/12/2007 12:21:40
Nellie the Elephant (with apologies to Butler & Hart)

To Aberdeen a property magnate came
A millionaire with peculiar hair
And Donald was his name
He had a dream to put up a great resort
He went to see the authority
And he asked for their support

Oh…Aberdeen councillors cast their vote
And waved goodbye to the golf course
Off it went with a Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump
SNP Government intervened
They want the inward investment
Back it comes with a Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump

Council chiefs don’t want to rock the boat
They showed the door to the councillor
Who used his casting vote
Now we hear Alex’s in up to his chin
He got the hard sell in a posh hotel
And then he called it in

Oh…Aberdeen councillors cast their vote
And waved goodbye to the golf course
Off it went with a Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump
SNP Government intervened
They want the inward investment
Back it comes with a Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump

Ian Paisley was calling far far away
He’s an Ulsterman, with plenty of land
For Donald (and his toupée)…so…

Aberdeen councillors cast their vote
And waved goodbye to the golf course
Off it went with a Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump
SNP Government called it in
So much for local decisions
Hand in glove with Trumpety Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump


© Annie & Vic 2007

5

Roger Thomas,

Blairgowrie 23/12/2007 12:45:10
"To see ourselves as others see us".

While the climate change talks at the G8 Germany were on, the Scottish media flashed pictures around the world of a billionaire arriving by private airliner to build on unspolit Scottish coast line.

How much is 'Brand Scotland' worth in the new global development model of environmental sustinability, protection and enhancement?

One inappropriate golfing development could cost Scotland £10's billion in lost revenue and investment.

Business pressure for the golf course, without full assessment could be called counter intuitive policy planning. Not the right thing to do for the benefit of Scotland.

http://thecelticlion.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-trump-bad-for-scotland-and.html
6

Spotter,

23/12/2007 13:26:17
doh Roger thomas

not sure if you are amongst them but those who don't want a billion development ..can you imagine how they would be if a ten billion development came in

they would prob adapt your argument and say a ten billion devlopment could stop £100 billion

7

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 23/12/2007 13:38:02
#6
Unspoilt scottish coastline - you are either having a laugh or you have never been to the area.

So ecovandal Trump flies to Scotland in private jet - could have borrowed Al Gore's it must be ecofriendly

I presume the 11000 delegates swam to Bali
8

b h,

dornoch 23/12/2007 16:08:26
Is Trump playing Scotland?
9

b h,

dornoch 23/12/2007 16:12:30
Is he dangling Ireland in our face to get us to acquiesce?

10

Spotter,

23/12/2007 17:02:16
that won't be self interest form the dornoch course :-)
11

Spotter,

23/12/2007 17:02:46
okay what is on this SSSI what is so special about it ?????
12

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 23/12/2007 19:09:06
#13
When pressed about the SSSI the reason that SNH gave is that the sands are shifting.

Trumps course does not extend to Foveran Links it skirts the southern edge of Drum Links

Blairton, Petten and Menie Links are no different from the links at Balmedie. I totally understand why Forvie and Foveran should be protected but where Trump is developing is not unique.
13

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 23/12/2007 19:11:40
Whilst I support the application because of the benefits it will mainly bring to the N'East quality food industry there is such an air of brinkmanship surrounding Mr Trump that its beginning to border on the "gun to the head" approach.

Whilst the LibDems are bearing the brunt of the critical commentary surrounding this debacle one should not forget that Tory and SNP councillors also voted against the original plans being approved so lets just get a sense of justice into the debate before we bow to such unreasonable pressures from this multimillionairre.

If Mr Trump is genuinely wanting to build a lasting "monument" in his mothers homeland then he should be a bit more patient than his current behaviour would suggest.
14

Roger Thomas,

Celtic Lion Blairgowrie 23/12/2007 20:00:18
8) JR Ewing. I admit it is not very unpoilt coatline. To maintain dunes you can't really have people trampling on them. The best example of dunes in the UK I have seen is Newborough Warren Anglesey N Wales. Check out an image of them.

There is hypocrisy in the environmental movement. When Al Gore quotes the "British Government" in one of his themes, it is my work he is quoting. So have been advised to send him a polite letter in the new year.

As for 11000 delegates in Bali. When the solution becomes part of the problem?

7) Spotter. Development cannot be assessed just in terms of economic magnitude. It needs what it does, who does it affect and consideration of environmental and social factors. You might think I write like Homer Simpson, but there again DEFRA did recommend me to the UK Cabinet Office to advise on the sustainable development and the UKs legislative process.
10) Nomadas Natural Conservation Act 2003 might be based on the legislative guidelines I contributed to. Who knows the moving finger having wrote moves on.

A £1 billion development might not be acceptable but a different $100 billion one should be.

I can't expect you to agree on this. Why not comment, consider, express your views, or even support Celtic Lion's proposals etc over the coming weeks and months.

11) bh. It says "Ian Paisley Jnr, the son of Northern Ireland's First Minister Ian Paisley, told Scotland on Sunday that Trump had been invited in January".

Not that he is going or Trump said.

I think he is playing Scotland. This has divided Scotland. American billionaire has got Scot arguing against Scot. Not very good is it. Scotland can do better. Again one example is follow Celtic Lion's proposals over the next few months.
15

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 23/12/2007 20:05:31
#16

Did you read my post or are you just prone to making sweeping assertions.

Where exactly does Trump's courses encroach onto Foveran Links. You obviously are incapable of distinguishing the difference between Menie, Drum and Foveran Links, This strongly suggests that your knowledge of the area is via the internet
16

McMillar,

Fife 23/12/2007 20:30:47
Trump has spoken about NI for quite some time and he’s absolutely right to have a plan B lined up. It may be that we get A+B but the upper hand with any negotiation now lies with Trump after the blundered council attempts to block. It is true to say that Salmond cannot lose here but the people of the NE can. Salmond is going a sterling job in continuing what was started by McConnell etc... and I certainly hope it does come off. Lib Dems are effectively dead in the water anyway after this fiasco and Nicol Stephen has killed them off locally with his ‘bizarre’ personally motivated attacks.
17

McGinty,

24/12/2007 01:22:19
#5 V1cR

Bravo. You're nothing to do with Scaramouche are you?
18

overton,

Balmedie 24/12/2007 06:55:11
3 Nomada,

Yes there will be houses, a hotel and golf courses - just what we need here to establish a tourist draw to the North East. Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire is sadly lacking a first class hotel and the the 1500 house will assist with aiding Government policy and will create many quality jobs.

Your comment about the SSSI is a further example of your deceit and lies - the SSSI will not be harmed neither will any species of bird or mammal.
The flag you and your pals in 'Sustainablity Aberdeenshire' are flying with regard to the dunes and the SSSI is a big red herring flag and your own continued spouting of the same false propaganda indicates that you have a real connection with that group.
You continue to ignore the majority and the Lib Dem councillors and MSP's that you have in your pocket are so thick and ignorant that they are running carelessly over the wishes of the people towards an abyss from which the will never return.
If you are not happy with the proposed Golf Development why don't you move back to wherever you came from - Merry Christmas.
19

overton,

aberdeen 24/12/2007 12:45:08
22 Nomada:

You never state facts chum and you have no knowledge or interest in the dunes at Menie - what is the scientific merit of the dune area at Menie anyway?

Presumably the proposed houses and Hotel are OK with you and your pals since they do not encroach on the dunes?

The SSSI Citation is here and no reference to Menie is included although Foveran does seem to interest SNH:

SITE OF SPECIAL SCIENTIFIC INTEREST

Gordon District

Midas Reference: 659

PLANNING AUTHORITY: Gordon District Council

DATE NOTIFIED UNDER 1981 ACT: 14 February 1984

NATIONAL GRID REFERENCE: NK 000225

OS 1:50,000 SHEET NO: 40
1:25,000 SHEET NO: NJ 92

AREA: 203.2 ha.

DESCRIPTION:

Biological

Foveran Links contains extensive areas of mobile foreshore and sand dunes as well as fixed dunes, dune pasture, marshes and heath. The relationship between various plant communities and sand stability is clearly shown and the continuing movement of sand masses allow direct observation of these interactions.

Although closely linked and similar to the Sands of Forvie and Ythan Estuary NNR to the north, the site does contain several species and communities which are absent from or less well represented in the NNR. The vegetation of the dune hollows and pasture, some of which are grazed, are especially interesting.

The Links are well-known for the range of migrant birds which occur and for the large moulting and passage flocks of seaduck and divers found in inshore waters.

Geological

Foveran Links is an important part of the Sands of Forvie coastal area to which it is closely linked by a variety of environmental processes. Foveran Links, together with South Forvie, is a type example of what may be described as a normal sand dune system with a dynamic interchange of material between the frontal dunes and the extensive sand beach and spit complex at the mouth of the River Ythan. The site is of exceptional importance for the study of a wide var
20

overton,

aberdeen 24/12/2007 12:46:46
22 Nomada:

The rest:
Geological

Foveran Links is an important part of the Sands of Forvie coastal area to which it is closely linked by a variety of environmental processes. Foveran Links, together with South Forvie, is a type example of what may be described as a normal sand dune system with a dynamic interchange of material between the frontal dunes and the extensive sand beach and spit complex at the mouth of the River Ythan. The site is of exceptional importance for the study of a wide variety of coastal landforms and processes and its value is enhanced by the availability of extensive research results in other disciplines which provide much additional and complementary evidence relevant to solving a broad range of gemorphological problems
21

Kitti Kat,

PA 24/12/2007 19:39:15
It i t's one thing for Trump to build a golf course and hotel, but to add houses that most of the people who live in the area will not be able to afford is going to cause a real problem for the locals when they want to move. They won't be able to afford the houses in their area even if they sell their current places.I am in that position as I write. We are now a town of "McMansions" that only the moneyed folks can afford. We can't afford to move, yet our taxes are going up, more schools need to be built, and on and on. Let Trump have his golf courses but for heaven's sake , stop the building of over priced homes.
22

Sprauncy,

Aberdeenshire 26/12/2007 12:37:03
3 Nomada,23/12/2007 08:04:04
"It is about time this Menie scheme was called what it really is - a new gated village with golf courses attached, designed solely for the benefit of the Trump himself."

Tell us something new, this has been said so many times already!
23

Sprauncy,

Aberdeenshire 26/12/2007 12:42:58
Most of the postings - are just repetition of the same information!

Lets have something new and positive - like the council will take some bold actions in 2008 and start ripping up the country side to build much needed roads, railways and bridges, putting Aberdeen/shire first, giving the electors what they want and not pandering to minority interests?
24

Sprauncy,

Aberdeenshire 26/12/2007 12:50:43
Join this afternoons boxing day walk at Balmedie in aid of Aberdeen/shires Electorate, who have been abused for years.
25

overton,

Balmedie 27/12/2007 07:01:33
26 Nomada,25/12/2007 08:55:07

The 'cut and paste' was for the benefit of you and others.
It is of interest to actually note how little there is in the way of content within the citation and indeed Menie isn't even mentioned.
The associated documents only mention Menie in the context that the area is used for cattle grazing, sand extraction and for the use of dune buggies.
The fact that until recently the dune system was used to create some spectacular partidge drives isn't mentioned anywhere.
So yet again you make a lot of noise but say nothing just like your ill-mannered tree hugging chums.
Don't you think it's time that you came off the social, got a job and stopped sponging of the tax payer?
Maybe you should make yourself a big steaming bowl of brown rice and lentils, pull on your wooly hat and head down past 'Local Hero's' scrapheap, polluting farm to the dynamic dune sytem, have a seat and contemplate how you could perhaps change the habits of a lifetime and start to make a positive contribution to the society that has looked after you so well.
26

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 27/12/2007 10:59:24
#31

Your elitist condescending attitude typifies that of the majority of the people against this development.
The simple truth is that Foveran Links and Foveran Links SSSI are not the the same. The ecofascist brigade have since to the outset tried to muddy the waters regarding this fact. Foveran Links SSSI to SNH and their ecofreak cheerleaders include Drum and Menie Links. Foveran Links to local people mean just that- easily understood on any map. Local journalists have attempted to ascertain why Menie and Drum are included on the SSSI map but ignored on the citation. The best reply to date from an anonymous SNH spokesperson was "shifting sands"

Trump is not developing Foveran Links he is developing an area of Menie Links which is detailed on the SSSI map but is given no mention on the citation.





27

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 27/12/2007 12:56:06
Amazing how quickly N Ireland can welcome inward investment, but how S L O W L Y things take in comparison here.

A "robust planning regime" in realality = RED TAPE.

If the Rev Paisley & Martin McGuinness can attract Trump, then that says it all about Scotland being CLOSED FOR BUSINESS.

Nomada
28

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 27/12/2007 12:56:32
OOPS!

Nomada has gone all quiet!
29

overton,

Balmedie 27/12/2007 12:59:35
Nomada the professional dog walker and eco-zealot - he no very happy!!!
30

mobocaster,

Aberdeenshire 27/12/2007 18:46:00
JR/Overton.

You are giving completely false information about the SSSI & the environmental value of the area. Indeed, SSSI aside, the entire costal Strip at Menie comes in for "Prioroty" Status in the UK Biodiversity Action Plan because of its environmental value, as well as being exactly the sort of land protected from this very type of developmentunder the Exec's own consultations:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1997/08/nppg13-coastal

Also remember that while the dunes are not exactly pristine, they are amongst the best we have & are a significant chunk of the UK's remnant of this type of habitat.

31

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 27/12/2007 20:55:14
#36
Smoke and mirrors.

Simple question if Menie Links are so important why are they not a Special Area of Conservation, Site of Community Importance, Candidate SACs, Possible SACs or even a Draft SACs.

Why can a straight answer not be obtained from any of the eco lobby and I don't mean obtuse links to Foveran SSI or the one you have pasted above.

Here is a link and where is Menie if it is of national importance

http://www.jncc.gov.uk/protectedsites/SACselection/habitat.asp?FeatureIntCode=H2110
32

mobocaster,

27/12/2007 22:27:41
Is that list is meant to be a definitive or exhaustive selection of sensitive sites?

I hardly think our bureaucracy is that well organised.

The Welch report submitted to Aberdeenshire goes part of the way to explaining the overall importance of the most sensitive parts of the site & where there are weaknesses in the environmental evidence submitted in support of the application.

http://www.ukplanning.com/aberdeenshire/doc/Consultee-4437374.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=4437374&location=VOLUME4&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=3

Here is a doc from Fairhurst detailing the prelim works needed within the part of the site covered by the SSSI

http://www.ukplanning.com/aberdeenshire/doc/Consultee-4677058.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=4677058&location=VOLUME4&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=10

Any clearer now?
33

mobocaster,

27/12/2007 22:41:41
Even then, SACs are only considered as the very top slice of our conserved land (for a variety of reasons).

You may also like to consider that the EU has also threatened to take legal action against the UK because they have listed fewer areas for SAC status than almost everywhere else.

34

overton,

Balmedie 28/12/2007 07:20:49
It is clear that the Trump Organisation have bent over backwards to mitigate any potential damage to the adders tongue and that the borehole pattern looks totally acceptable.

The neglected and damaged dune system can only benefit from the creation of the golf courses and their stabilising influence.

The eradication of rabbits is what all the local farmers have always sought to do and the Golf Course should seek to do no less.

The document by David Welch is totally self opinionated and should be challenged for clear proof that the plant species noted as endangered do not occur at Drumms to the North and Balmedie to the South.

It is of further interest that it appears that only plant species are alleged to be threatened and that amongst other apparent objectors to this project are the RSPB and the Ramblers Association - the former have not as yet come up with any potentially threatened species and the latter can only be regarded as destructive and damaging to the environment.

Nomada went bleating to Debra Storr and Martin Ford and low and behold mobocaster was mobilised for action at 18.46 on the 27th of December 2007 - welcome mobocaster let's hope we can discuss the situation on a purely factual basis with you.
God save Balmedie from the Community Council.
35

overton,

Balmedie 28/12/2007 07:26:57
38 mobocaster:
Do you know who commissioned the Welch Report?
36

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 28/12/2007 13:49:25
#38/39
At long last someone from the eco brigade who is able to and willing to provide sources to the ecological argument,apparently minus the elitist bull$hit.

Like Overton I have concerns about the Welch Report. On the surface it appears to be an objective presentation but when you dig a little contradictions with other eco sources appear

http://www.bsbi.org.uk/Carex_maritima_2006.pdf
http://www.searchnbn.net/gridMap/gridMap.jsp?allDs=1&srchSpKey=NHMSYS0000461283

Where do we get access to the data used to compile his report ?
37

overton,

Balmedie 28/12/2007 15:38:06
42 JR Ewing,:
On the basis of the information that you included regarding distribution of Carex Maritima (Item 3)and Adders Tongue (item 4)it would appear that the Welch Report can be totally discredited for failing to acknowledge the full extent of other populations of these plants.
It would appear that until the Golf Course project was presented, knowledge of those plants at Menie was not widely known and it would also seem that they must be more widely distributed than has been actually surveyed at this time.
The Welch Report does indeed seem to be a very biased and opinionated piece of work - the smell of sleaze and Martin Ford seems to permeate the pages of the report.
38

mobocaster,

28/12/2007 19:25:45

Overton, you will have a hard time challenging Welch, as he has a longstanding high reputation for his work in this area. Quite a bit of it at the behest of Aberdeenshire/Grampian themselves. I think I do know who asked him to give his opinion but comissioned is maybe too formal a word for it?

RSPB have also detailed their objections in several places elsewhere. Some of which are echoed in the SNH submission Here's one, with species:

http://www.ukplanning.com/aberdeenshire/doc/Consultee-5064061.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=5064061&location=VOLUME4&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=2

They also have their own campaign going so can probably be counted on to speak for themselves:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/conservation/sites/scotland/menie.asp

One of the downloads there will answer your questions about SSSI location & site overlap area very clearly.

I've only heard very vague things about the RA's interest but TBH, Trump's current behaviour on access is rather worrying.

You assume too much about me. Nobody is pulling my strings - other than knowing a few of them & sharing some of the same concerns, I'm just another local bystander who is also disturbed about a whole lot more than just the environmental aspects of this scheme.

I'm not partucularly interested in the elitist/non-elitest side of the argument as IMO, there are few things more driven by elitism than a Trump golf resort. Go check-out some of his other golf schemes & the market they aim for.

I'm also glad to see facts discussed as IMO, they have been very much overlooked in favour of aggro & mudslinging.
39

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 28/12/2007 21:52:23
#44
Nomada you are at it again bending the truth I also accept that the development overlaps the SSSI. Our point is that Menie Links are incorporated on the map but not mentioned in the citation. So simply put - why?
SAC status, nonsense is it. Why does your attitude to legitimate debate not surprise me.
40

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 28/12/2007 22:27:04
#45
Mobocaster
In the interests of fair debate I have since found the following reference
http://www.bsbimaps.org.uk/atlas/map_page.php?spid=1381.1&sppname=Ophioglossum%20azoricum&commname=Small%20Adder^s-tongue

As far as the RSPB are concerned I do not believe they have any credibility in this matter - what were they doing when Menie was a shooting estate - does anyone know ?
According to the RSPB officer Menie has " an internationally important aggregation " ( pink footed geese) something he has obviously kept to himself

http://www.searchnbn.net/searchengine/search.jsp?tab=1&pg=1&searchTerm=Pink-footed%20Goose

Or could it be since Donald bought the estate they are no longer shot.
41

mobocaster,

29/12/2007 02:30:57
Yes, if he was using the Red Data Book as a source, it could easily be not entirely up to date, most of the data for the 2006 edition dates from the 1999-2004 period. Whatever, Ophioglossum azoricum is still a scarce plant that only really thrives on otherwise marginal ground. It is also considered a very good indicator of a habitat that has remained reasonably undisturbed for a very long time.

As for the RSPB, they have some very genuine reasons for interest/input but I am more than aware of other issues surrounding their approach to land management elsewhere, which I would agree are not always for the best overall.

The whole NE coast is however of considerable importance to a variety of migratory species & even though Pink-Footed Geese are on the increase (I have seen the place literally carpeted with them at times), this is of no small consideration as they have been highly threatened in the past. For the shooting side of things, the RSPB, BASC, landowners & other bodies have always walked a bit of a tightrope on sporting & management by mutual agreement issues but TBH, most of the bird species popular with wildfowlers in Scotland are not amongst the most endangered, shoots themselves are often more conservation-minded than opponents give them credit for & where geese are concerned, the season dates, size, propensity to take flight & the logistics of handling carcasses on a shoot are important limiting factors to the take. Also, IME, most of the wildfowlers up here go for something a bit smaller & tastier.

Another important point to remember is that the laws & good practice guidelines on shooting & proximity to places with public access (ie the beach) meant that a substantial part of the coastal strip at Menie was seldom if ever shot for very sensible safety reasons, wich undoubtedly helped with the conservation side of things as well.

42

overton,

Balmedie 31/12/2007 06:41:05
44 Nomada,: Lies? Where are the lies then?
You have never been able to state fact since you started to post here and your approach is not disimilar to that of the ill-mannered louts who populate 'Sustainability Aberdeenshire'.
If you cannot present anything that resembles a reasoned debate then please stick to the other instructions you have been given by Don and the 'Wee Accordiannista' - maybe do some letter writing to Mike Rumbles instead?

49 JR Ewing, / 50 mobocaster,:
I don't know who was up there on Saturday night but the Pink Foots, Mallard and Wigeon were certainly getting the works - they must have had a very good bag going by the number of shots.

Mobocaster - you are no doubt aware that the geese and ducks do not really land on the Eastern coastal strip which is mainly dunes - they either land in the farmer's parks for the new shoots of grass or they alight on the wee loch.

Since when were the RSPB interested in the bird life at Menie? The short answer is never and their mismanagement of the special colonies at Forvie is legend. Their involvement at this time is entirely suspect and is surely at the behest of the Anti Golf Course Campaigner Martin Ford or his close relatives.



43

mobocaster,

31/12/2007 18:53:22
Yes, I'm well aware of where the geese are likely to land.

I do remember some interest in other birds on the costal strip but TBH, you will need to get that answer from a Birder, no doubt one will be along.

44

b h,

dornoch 02/01/2008 21:33:26
Goodbye Trumpie, Goodbye Trumpie,
Goodbye Trumpie, we hate to see you go.
I'm gonna miss that Casino!
45

overton,

balmedie 03/01/2008 06:43:49
53 b h,dornoch : Good to see you back and offering some lively debate.
Are you still drunk or have you just been lobotomised for the safety of the public and are now free to wander the streets and dunes of Dornoch - the big bangs will really scare you now.
46

Richard Lionheart,

06/02/2008 15:42:47
Donald Trump should have known that he should have made a donation to Wendy's leadership campaign. Then this would all have gone through without any problem.

Future investors in Scotland note well.

 

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