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Planning expert warns of Trump case fallout

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Published Date: 16 December 2007
By EDDIE BARNES
ONE of Scotland's most senior planning experts has warned that the handling of the Trump golf deal could "damage the integrity" of the system.
In a highly unusual move, the national director of the Royal Town Planning Institute (RTPI) has written to Finance Secretary John Swinney, reminding ministers of the need to be "politically impartial" and "transparent" when handling planning applica
tions. Dr Veronica Burbridge warns Swinney that her members have been in contact to "express concerns" about the way the case has been handled.

The move follows a week of turmoil after ministers decided they, not the local council, would decide whether plans by American tycoon Donald Trump to build a huge golfing complex in Aberdeenshire should go ahead.

It emerged that a day before the decision, First Minister Alex Salmond, who is also the local MSP for the area, met two of Trump's representatives to discuss the case.

It then emerged that the pair had also met the Scottish Government's chief planner on the day the decision was made.

The matter led to a bitter political row which continues to rage, with opposition parties accusing Salmond of "sleaze", while the SNP accused them of risking an investment of up to £1bn.

In the RPTI letter, Burbridge states: "The handling of this case has raised a number of matters of principle. Members of the institute have expressed concerns that the manner in which this case is handled should not appear to damage the integrity of the planning system."

It adds: "They stress the need to ensure that procedures are transparent, respected and clearly understood by all those involved. Members of the institute are concerned that the approach to scrutiny of this case should be politically impartial and according to planning law and planning policy."

Opposition parties seized on the letter last night, claiming it supported their own concerns.

Scottish Lib Dem leader Nicol Stephen said: "This is an exceptional move which underlines the seriousness of the institute's concerns. This matter has grave implications for the conduct of Government.

"Ministers are ultimately responsible for the actions of Government and there is a fundamental lack of transparency and openness in the SNP Government's approach to this issue."

Swinney is expected to make a statement to Parliament this week answering questions about the Government's handling.

No one was available for comment from the Scottish Government.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 December 2007 7:28 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

,

16/12/2007 00:38:50
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2

,

16/12/2007 00:45:07
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3

Petro,

Scotland 16/12/2007 00:57:39
The government have been well and truly caught out. They told downright lies to the BBC for godsake!

And now SNP stooges like "famous 15" are trying to blame Nicol Stephen. Pathetic.
4

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 01:02:43
#3 - Pedro - Caught out? Like Wendies latest ruse here?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3056768.ece
5

walter,

16/12/2007 01:03:35
Dr Veronica Burbridge and members of the Royal Town Planning Institute have the audacity to question the SNP in the handling of this affair, just because they are experts in this field they think they know better than SNP politicians anti Scottish union stooges each and every one that is what they are.
6

subrosa,

16/12/2007 01:09:23
#3 Get your facts right Pedro. The BBC asked the wrong question. If they thought they'd been lied to don't you think the story would be running and running? It's dried up on the BBC now because they were wrong as they didn't even research well enough to know there were TWO telephone calls hours apart. The asked about the call regarding the calling in of the application. Nobody was in the room with the Chief Planner at that time. Auch it's just impossible for you SNP bashers to absorb truth after all these years of listening to lies, lies and more lies.
7

Spotter,

16/12/2007 01:11:35
well if this gives the "very restrictive high house price" planning a kick in the backside ...it will all be worth it for that alone

Swinney and Mather have had planners in their sights X -- go for it now lads
8

subrosa,

16/12/2007 01:11:55
I don't think this letter will worry John Swinney in the least. In fact I'm sure he will appreciate it and make doubly sure every action he takes is recorded in triplicate and every word spoken recorded. He will act with integrity as he has done so far in this matter.

He'll certainly not feel intimidated much to the LibDums disgust.
9

cataibh,

Bo'ness 16/12/2007 01:21:38
If the RTPI is concerned that the Goverment will not act impartially within the planning laws should the institute on our behalf take immediate legal action to ensure this does not happen.
10

Petro,

16/12/2007 01:25:55
Subrosa,

I do not know who you are so I do not want to call you a liar. But you are wrong about your defence of the BBC being deliberately lied to by the government.

I would ask you to look at:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7142696.stm

and after reflection you may wish to withdraw your comments above.


11

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16/12/2007 01:41:47
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16/12/2007 01:46:13
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16/12/2007 01:48:25
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The Strategist,

16/12/2007 01:48:28
In the RPTI letter, Burbridge states: "The handling of this case has raised a number of matters of principle. Members of the institute have expressed concerns that the manner in which this case is handled should not appear to damage the integrity of the planning system."

The integrity of the planning system was destroyed years ago. Poorly designed housing developments with the houses crushed together, villages overdeveloped with no additional facilities and so on and so forth.

I'd take no lessons from the RTPI.
15

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16/12/2007 01:49:54
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16

Richardinho,

16/12/2007 01:59:47
At first it was just the nimbies and the lunatic green fringe who were against this project. now it is the lib-dims with typical cynicism who are weighing in demonstrating that they care more about attacking the SNP than with the economic good of Scotland.
17

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16/12/2007 02:00:28
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18

Silver Shred,

in the jamjar 16/12/2007 02:01:54
Oh yes - that'll be the same Veronica Burbridge who used to be at Nimbys in Chief Scottish Natural Heritage, then?

Like she has no agenda of her own to pursue?

Give us a break! How about some intelligent journalism, that embraces some basic skills. Like an ability to use Google, perhaps?
19

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16/12/2007 02:05:13
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20

subrosa,

16/12/2007 02:12:00
#11 Ah AM2 so you were present also? That's not the article I read initially and please don't imply I am a liar (ie 'false statements). I have researched the BBC questions and obviously I've read a different version to yourself. I could accuse you of 'false statements' also but I won't bring myself to that level. I do my utmost to be fair and honest in my opinions without making personal statements and I do not use spin of any kind or cut and pastes to suit my causes.

I stick by my remarks that if the BBC thought they were lied to then we would never have heard the end of it for days.

Have a wee look at the Sunday Telegraph to see an article regarding the BBC and relating to Newsnight. Disgraceful and biased behaviour seems to be the norm with them these days.
21

brian mcc,

the arctic 16/12/2007 02:13:22
The full circus is in town now. The big-top, the greatest show on earth. It will turn into a freak show like Michael Jackson and Neverland.
22

subrosa,

16/12/2007 02:15:57
I should have added in my last post that the Scottish government apologised immediately to the BBC if there was any misunderstanding about the telephone call and there response to the query.

Isn't it far more important that Ms Alexander and her senior officials have now been found to be using taxpayers money to invest in a Labour company based in London? You couldn't make it up! See the Sunday Times.
23

subrosa,

16/12/2007 03:02:36
My apologies for the grammatical error. It should, of course, read 'their' not 'there'. I wince when I read bad spelling and now I'm guilty. Put it down to tiredness not ignorance. Bedtime, goodnight.
24

Willie Macleod,

16/12/2007 03:35:27
If Donald Trump cares about Scotland and Macleod history invest in Arts and Education which would benefit everyone not a select few we dont need a another Skibo
25

Richardinho,

16/12/2007 04:00:19
#25

Get real you clown-There wont be any money to spend on art and education-or anything else for that matter- if there isn't a strong economy and entrepreneurs like Trump around to invest in it!
26

Beth Boyle,

NY 16/12/2007 04:06:53
Yes, I have pointed out from the beginning this has all been handled very badly. It most certainly has damaged the whol system. The firing of Ford is the sadest of all. Stand on principle and get eaten alive. I think the man is the only man of priciple in the sorry lot. Even if you don't like his stance he did his job as it was written. Pitty it's turned into mob rule.
27

nabodican,

Portree 16/12/2007 04:24:30
What integrity of the planning system ?
Donald Trump's project pales into insignificance compared to how the planning system has bent over backwards to accommodate the profit margins of the wind industry who are allowed to bulldoze through SSSI's NSA's blanket bogs and various other protected areas as well as kill off as many protected birds as they wish.
Our planning system is a sick joke.
28

Willie Macleod,

Wick 16/12/2007 04:26:09
#26 Clown My word your insight and Intellect is overpowering I Bow in disgrace to yor higher intellect
29

Willie Macleod,

Wick 16/12/2007 04:44:40
#26 Can I get up now from Genuflecting on your superior knowledge and wisdom
30

b h,

dornoch 16/12/2007 05:05:21
Take a referendum in Aberdeen/shire or everybody in favor raise your 3-iron or your skil saw, and end all this jabberwocky. Let the will of the people be heard. Donald's mothers ghost is getting apoplexy and the greenies are circling the wagons for another go round.

The aye's have it!
31

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 16/12/2007 05:10:06
Willie Macleod:

Richardinho #26 is not justified in insulting you, but he is correct economically. Art, education, etc. might be paid for by the government, but the government has to get its money from taxes. Government cannot create money. Nobody will start a business for the express purpose of paying taxes. People who start businesses do it to make a profit. The government then takes away part of that profit by taxing it.
32

b h,

16/12/2007 05:25:20
They're selling postcards of the hanging,
they're painting the passports brown;
the beauty parlor's filled with sailors,
the circus is in town.
In comes the blind commissioner,
they've got him in a trance;
one hand's tied to the tightrope walker,
the other is in his pants.

And the riot squad they're restless,
they need some where to go,
As lady and I look out tonight from
Desolation Row.

Cinderella, she seems so easy,
"Well, it takes one to know one," she cries,
and puts her hands in her back pockets,
Betty Davis style.
In comes Romeo, he's moaning
"You belong to me I believe,"
Then someone says "You're in the wrong place my friend,
you'd better leave."

And the only sound that's left,
after the ambulances go,
Is Cinderella sweeping up on
Desolation Row.

Einstein, disguised as Robin Hood,
with his memories in a trunk,
passed this way an hour ago
with his friend, a jealous monk.
Yes he looked so immaculately frightful,
as he bummed a cigarette;
and went off sniffing drainpipes
and reciting the alphabet.

Now you would not think to look at him
but he was famous long ago,
for playing electric violin on
Desolation Row.

Now the moon is almost hidden,
and the stars are beginning to hide,
The fortune telling lady
has even taken all her things inside.
All except for Cain and Abel,
and the Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Everyone is making love
or else expecting rain.

And the Good Samaritan he's dressing,
He's getting ready for the show,
He's going to the carnival tonight on
Desolation Row.

from Desolation Row by Bob Dylan
33

Pete40,

Tassy 16/12/2007 05:54:35
Well I have tried to post a comment twice and not succeeded. That along with about eight earlier tries.
What's the secret? Do I have to get out of my chair, twirl round twice and sit down again. There must be something I am doing wrong, alternatively this is a duff web site. Sussed it out, I am using my old sign in tab. Apologies to everyone at the Scotsman.
34

Willie Macleod,

Wick 16/12/2007 05:55:04
#32Arts and Education funding. Ithank, you for your polite reply we can discuss this and other issues without resorting to name calling and other abuse that is a feature on these forums .Arts and Education aretoo important to be left to the whims of Billionairs Best Wishes Sierra Willie
acleod
35

Pete40,

Tassy 16/12/2007 06:00:26
Anyway to back to the original post. This is a speculative venture which could leave politicians with a red face or Mr Trump's backers with serious financial losses. Ach keep the sand dunes, you know it makes sense. In some parts of Scotland.
36

A Better Way,

16/12/2007 06:13:26
Willie I agree that there was absolutely no justification for the disrespect shown to your post. You are entitled to post your opinion on any matter on these forums. After all we are all just Scots who are discussing our point of view in a peaceful manner.
37

A Better Way,

16/12/2007 06:16:53
Pete you have to bend over and kiss your own erky before pressing the Post Button. Dont know why you were having a problem,it seems simple to the rest of us mate.
38

Pete40,

Tassy 16/12/2007 06:21:55
#38, I am OK now, does kissing your own erky give you any other brownie points? Naw, I don't believe it, I will stick to tying my shoe laces. Now that is well worth the effort.
39

Argyll on line,

Argyll 16/12/2007 07:32:29
Nicole Kid Man and Bella the Balloon continue in their cynical opportunism to hazard this project.
40

Jock's Away,

Africa. 16/12/2007 07:47:30
At last we have an African export of note. The Planning actions for the Trump Golf course and those of the Edinburgh Politicos and Abredeen Council would win awards,and a mention in Transparency International. Never let the law or rules get in the way, and nail the guy with the right option if he steps off message. It is nice to see Scotland setting the ground rule for independence early. One Caveat: Scotland fix it and soon,No matter WHO is in the frame. Corruption of any kind is the most corrosive of all human activities to any society.
41

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 08:33:04
It's time for Scotland to free itself from the straitjacket of Unionism.

All the moaning has not come from the political parties locally, as everyone locally bar the Greens is in favour of the project.

What else was the SNP to do but call it in, once the Infra Ctte (specifically arch-critics Ford & Storr) voted against? Ford has since admitted, with hindsight, the proposal was too big for them to handle! Pity he didn't realise that at the time.

But for the opposition in Holyrood, all of whom are run from London, to accuse the SNP of sleaze when all it is doing is looking at this potentially massive investment, is scandalous.

The FM in N.Ireland has no problem in trying to woo Trump. What's the problem with similar happening in Scotland?

The petty point scoring is classic Unionism & is sickening. They seem to have an anti-NE agenda.
42

williamx,

canada 16/12/2007 09:03:01
Low lying land, right beside the sea. Sea levels will rise to flood this area in the next 30 years. Will the insurance companies provide house insurance to those who buy houses on a future flood plain? On that basis, the Scottish Gov should bow out and let the Aberdeenshire planning authority take over and face future lawsuits for doing the incredibly stupid and allowing this to go ahead.
43

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 16/12/2007 09:11:09
"Members of the institute have expressed concerns that the manner in which this case is handled should not appear to damage the integrity of the planning system."
Aberdeenshire Council has ensured that the integrity of the planning system is already in tatters.
44

walter,

16/12/2007 09:35:10
#42 What else was the SNP to do but call it in

Here's a wacky idea that they could have tried, when Salmond met with Trumps reps (wearing his MSP cap of coarse) he could have told them that they could go back to the council and negotiate on the areas the application was rejected on or appeal the decision as any appeal would be heard by ministers in Holyrood.
He could also have given them some advice from his position as FM (even though he was there wearing his MSP cap)in that he nor his government will assist any one who rather than follow due process in our democracy would rather use threats of blackmail.
No matter how much the development is needed nor how much it will benefit the economy the SNP government will do nothing until it arrives on their desk through the appeal system and when that happens it will be investigated to the letter of the laws that dictate planning in Scotland.
That's just a suggestion of what else they could have done.
45

beeree,

Local (as in pub) 16/12/2007 09:37:23
I find it so so sad. All these SNPers so aghast that their heroes have feet of clay. The best defence they have managed to put up so far is that Labour is corrupt, and, therefore so can we be.

If Aberdeenshire council wants to wreck their county they should be allowed to. Why should outsiders in Edinburgh be allowed to dictate??
46

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 09:39:10
Walter,

Yup & whilst Scotland wades through & is held up by red tape, some other country steps in & is quite happy to accomdate the project.

Scotland...closed for business.
47

McMillar,

Fife 16/12/2007 09:43:12
Planning expert warns of Trump case fallout

Danger – this could lead to development, regeneration, investment, increased prosperity and fun. But hang on! With the likes of Nicol Stephen around there is still time to do a classic and snatch defeat from this situation. We are open for business and here for the long term.
48

walter,

16/12/2007 09:49:46
#50 Richard.
How about instead of Scotland closed to business.
Scotland won't be held to ransom through blackmail.
49

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 09:50:16
Speaking of sleaze, I see John Major's on BBC TV now.

Does Ms Goldie know?
50

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 09:50:53
It's a golf development Walter, not a nuclear power station.
51

walter,

16/12/2007 10:01:36
Richard
Whether it is a golf development or nuclear power station both need planning permission and there are options for any developer following rejection.
Renegotiation is one option and the appeal system is another.
Blackmail is not an option, well at least it wasn't until now.
52

James,

Dundee, exposing the LibDems - the true Sleazers 16/12/2007 10:22:44
ELECTION WATCHDOGS are to speak to the Scottish Liberal Democrats in Dunfermline West after it emerged that the party spent more than was allowed at the Holyrood elections.
In May the Lib Dem candidate Jim Tolson won a spectacular victory, snatching the seat from Labour.
The expenditure limit set by the Electoral Commission for the seat was £11,111.51p. However, the party actually spent £11,125.
The Electoral Commission said that no further action would be taken, although they do plan to speak to MSP Mr Tolson in due course.
“Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act (PPERA) provides that the Electoral Commission should monitor candidates’ expenditure and assess compliance, but it does not provide the commission with any specific enforcement powers,” said a spokesman.
“We would consider each case on its individual merits and decide whether it is in the public interest to take further action.
“In this circumstance we have decided not to do so, although we plan to discuss the issue with the candidate in due course.”
Last night Mr Tolson said the overspend was a genuine mistake, for which he apologised.
“I regret that my election expenses have gone over the limit albeit by a very small amount,” he said.
“While it was always the Liberal Democrats’ intention to spend as much as we legally could to win the seat, £14 will have made no real difference. It certainly would not have, for instance, come near to paying for another leaflet run.
“It is always my intention to represent my constituents to the best of my ability but I apologise to them for this slight oversight.”
Mr Tolson’s election agent Tony Martin said, “It is obviously a mistake on my part. I am sorry for that. Obviously we were a few pounds over.
“We miscalculated and I regret that.”
Thomas Docherty, chairman of Dunfermline and West Fife Labour Party, said, “The Lib Dems have spent tens of thousands of pounds on glossy election materials in the past 18 months.
“It is no surprise to west F
53

James,

Dundee 16/12/2007 10:24:16
“It is no surprise to west Fifers that their slick PR machine ignored the limits set down.

“Given how ineffectual their MSP and councillors have been since getting elected, I wonder how many more thousands they plan to spend in the next 18 months.”
54

subrosa,

16/12/2007 10:26:13
#55 Nothing in the Scottish press.
55

subrosa,

16/12/2007 10:30:12
#57 I read that article last night. How can they be so stupid for £14? Can't they do simple arithmetic? The first thing anyone with any sense does when spending money is find out how much they have to spend. That's how most households and people try to survive. Of course the LibDems were using other people's money so what do they care. Much the same attitude as Ms Alexander and her senior cohorts in today's Times.
56

Alexander,

Edinburgh 16/12/2007 10:44:10
"ONE of Scotland's most senior planning experts has warned that the handling of the Trump golf deal could "damage the integrity" of the system."
Lets all hope that he is right!
57

McMillar,

Fife 16/12/2007 10:45:17
The lib dem overspend scandal would (and should) be completely irrelevant. Someone sticking in a taxi bill to get home after late campaign duties(?) would blow the budget there. However, coming hot on the heels of the heat applied to Wendy and the muppetry displayed by Nicol Stephen over the golf development in his own NE, I expect this will blow up. We really shouldn’t be wasting time on £14.
58

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Edinburgh 16/12/2007 10:49:41
Walter

Just exactly who is being “blackmailed”.

Aberdeenshire Council have shown their disdain of the actions of Henry T Ford, (you can have any colour of planning permission you want, as long as it meets my concept of green), by removing him from having any decision making opportunities.

The Trumpet has indicated that unless his conditions are met, he will take his development elsewhere

In what way does this differ from for example, Chung Wa, insisting that we build a large facility for them adjacent to the M8, before they would consider locating their production plant here?

Or how about that fantastic inward investment opportunity which led to the re-alignment of the M90 just north of Dunfermline?

What became of these labourtory initiatives, and what was the cost to the Scottish taxpayer?

What is the cost to the Scottish taxpayer as a result of the government calling in this planning application?
59

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/12/2007 10:51:09
What the RTPI do? I didn't know they even existed.

They obviously haven't had much input into planning OUR towns. Huge housing developments matched with lack of transport, retail, leisure and educational infrastructure is prevalent throughout Scotland.

Should their comments be respected in this debate, or are SOS scraping the barrel for a story?
60

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/12/2007 10:58:08
44 WilliamX

I take it you've studied the topography of Menie in relation to balanced research on rising sea levels?

I think not.

61

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/12/2007 11:04:21
48 Walter

Yes, and by that time, they'd be teeing off on the new championship course in Northern Ireland.
62

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Glasgow overspill, courtesy of town planners 16/12/2007 11:11:46
RTPI

Town planners who attended art colleges and tend to live in quaint wee fishing villages in Fife.

Responsible for Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Drumchapel, Pilton , Craigmillar, Whitfield and the carbuncle of Cumbernauld town centre.

Yes, we must listen closely to what they say, so that we can avoid the mistakes of the recent past.
63

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 11:16:55
I suggest that these people should have written Councillor Ford a couple of weeks ago and warned him about political interference. This may have prevented his eco fascist agenda taking precedence in planning decisions.

She could also have contacted Nicol Stephen three years ago when as Transport Minister a previously unknown but politically expedient for him plan appeared as a route for the Aberdeen Wester Peripheral Road. Or when as deputy First Minister this unknown (but missing much of his constituency)route was chosen
64

Linda,

Edinburgh 16/12/2007 11:20:10
Gets worse for Labour as well as fresh revelations about Wendy Alexander in Sunday Times, Gordon Brown broke Westminster expenses Rules by subletting his Kirkcaldy office to the Labour Party. Sunday Herald page 17 but can't find online link.
65

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 11:20:34
We can only hope that the police investigation will bring the guilty to justice. If the funding link is confirmed, lengthy jail sentences are inevitable.
66

overton,

Balmedie 16/12/2007 11:27:03
RTPI
#69 #70 #71 - Where were they indeed!
Remember Whitfield in Dundee?
Where exactly have they offered any good advice lately and what prompts them to stick their noses in now unless they are in some way related to or connected to the Lib Dems / Nicol Stephen / Sustainable Aberdeenshire - quite frankly their belated, but timely interference STINKS.
67

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16/12/2007 11:29:19
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68

Jim M Glasgow,

16/12/2007 11:31:30
Let's talk about how Nicol Stephen has become the focus of ire in North East for trying to scupper £1 billion worth of investment in Scotland:

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=149212&command=displayContent&sourceNode=149702&contentPK=19258432&folderPk=85910&pNodeId=149693

PRESS & JOURNAL EDITORIAL, 14 DECEMBER

TIME TO THINK OF THE GREATER GOOD

Less than 24 hours after Aberdeenshire's council made an impressive job of rectifying the mess it had created of the Trump project, Scottish and UK politicians have made a fresh attempt to sabotage it.

Scottish Lib Dem leader Nicol Stephen, a man who should have the wellbeing of the county at the forefront of his consciousness, placed that priority firmly behind the desire to make political capital by attempting to portray the SNP government's efforts to keep the plan alive as some kind of sleaze-ridden journey on the gravy train to personal glory.

First, his party led the rather pathetic criticism of First Minister Alex Salmond's use of the ministerial car to attend a meeting with Trump's representatives when he was acting in his constituency role. Now, Mr Stephen himself has jumped on the bandwagon by calling "foul" over the government decision to call in the plan.

We know that politics is a dirty business, but there are times when the opportunity to land a punch should take second place to the greater good, which, in this case, is ensuring that a development which will bring massive investment to the north-east of Scotland is welcomed and encouraged rather than blocked and criticised at every turn.

Worse still is the decision by Westminster politicians to have their pop at the SNP by suggesting that the calling-in of the Trump proposal runs contrary to the party's beliefs on the removal of power from centralised government. The only consolation was that any credibility Edinburgh MP Mark Lazarowicz hoped to gain by seeking the high moral ground was instantly nullifie
69

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16/12/2007 11:37:29
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70

Jim M Glasgow,

16/12/2007 11:39:13
And it got worse for him by the evening.

http://www.thisisaberdeen.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=148836&command=displayContent&sourceNode=148580&contentPK=19225897&folderPk=85556&pNodeId=148358

EVENING EXPRESS EDITORIAL, 14 DECEMBER

END THIS TIRESOME HECKLING

12:00 - 14 December 2007

First Minister Alex Salmond is spot on in his assessment of yesterday's sleaze row as a descent into gutter politics.

It is tiresome that Nicol Stephen is hijacking attempts to get the Trump bid back on course to score cheap political points.

As a North-east MSP we expect him to represent the interests of his constituents, not sling mud at the expense of efforts to rescue the Menie proposals.

Mr Stephen is hardly the one to indulge in such heckling. People in the North-east still haven't forgiven the way he presided over the bypass farce.

Mistakes have been made, but work is now going on at the highest levels to ensure the Trump proposal is feasible. We expect our MSPs to support that.

71

tomo577,

erie 16/12/2007 11:39:16
it's a verra sad day for scotland when they buckle under to the DONALD

if he wants to rule scotland from new york will they agree ?

you should just tell him 'NO' and go away.

we dinna want you here- sleeze bag that he is.
72

McMillar,

Fife 16/12/2007 11:42:53
Can someone explain what Nicol Stephen is on these days? He is alienating everyone and I see nothing positive in his actions. When does Charles Kennedy step in or has he commented on this already? Or Ming for that matter.
73

overton,

Balmedie 16/12/2007 11:46:41
To support the ambitious Golf / Hotel and Housing Development opportunity at Menie please vote:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/TrumpSupport/
74

overton,

Balmedie 16/12/2007 11:53:04
Nicol Stephen isn't very good really and him trying to hijack this project is an illustration of what a sad and pathetic apology for an MSP he is. Even his worst Lib Dem Councillor (Debra Storr) seems more politically capable than he.
The P&J Statement is spot on.
75

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16/12/2007 11:57:49
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Harris tweed and levi's 501,

Edinburgh 16/12/2007 12:00:28
#74

Yes, I remember Whitfield in Dundee particularly well.

Skarne housing on a Scandinavian model, poured concrete construction , cheap but not very cheerful.

Damp with horrendously expensive electric storage heating, shared corridors littered with refuse, dog dirt and worst..

A sink estate, used by the then Dundee City Council to dump all their anti-social tenants , misfits , druggies, weirdos, clowns and comic singers.

There were good people there too, as there are everywhere.

I recall attending some community association meetings whilst a resident in Whitfield and being impressed by the will some of the other residents to improve the area.

The enemy at that time was not so much the anti-social neighbours, but more so the neglect of the Labour Party controlled city council who caused the problems in the first place.

I understand that much of the place has now been demolished, not much of an endorsement of the planning policies of the1970’s

This place was built only around 30 years ago!
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16/12/2007 12:01:38
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16/12/2007 12:02:53
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 12:04:47
82 AM2, how disingenous to complain about relevance while bringing in an unrelated topic. Also very odd that the "quotes" you attribute are actually quotes from Nicol Stephen, not any BBC source. You have complained about people doing similar things before.
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McMillar,

Fife 16/12/2007 12:14:27
#82 AM2 – ZZZzzz, have you bothered reading any comments or is that just the standard post? Looks like it came straight from ‘the big book of schoolboy debating – page 3’. And I should know. It seems to be a very common theme on these pages that a sensational headline is posted and the content doesn’t actually say very much. That leads to a general discussion which is much more informative. Wendy is keeping her head down (and I for one think the whole wendygate story is pointless anyway – she is just an easy target) and Nicol Stephen is just trying to be remembered…for something other than his bypass.
82

boudica,

Glasgow 16/12/2007 12:17:21
When the SNP gave out the info on how their election funding was spent ..why wasnt the £500.000 they were given by the Ex RSB Chief mentioned ???? and were did that go ????
83

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 12:22:37
93 It was declared. And was given legally.

As you bring up election funding and spending, what do you make of Laboru giving £40,000 from the Scottish parliament funds to "Compueters for Labour". A CfL Spokesman (Sunday Times) said " income from elected representatives made its election campaign possible. It pays for the salaries of the same empoyees who help with political support for election campaigns, so it is all the same, it cross-subsidises it".

I hadn't realised that Scottish Labour had totally endorsed state/ tax payer funding of political campaigning so fully, without tellling anyone. ANy thoughts?
84

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 12:23:24
94 Matheson. Publicised by the SNP, and declared to electoral commission.
85

overton,

Balmedie 16/12/2007 12:24:19
The pathetic low life slanderous clown, Nicol Stephen, was on BBC Scotland just now - what an embarrassment to the country and to Aberdeen he is - let's hope he gets the leathering he deserves in the press tomorrow.
86

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 12:25:30
89 Shame that "Scottish" Labour couldn't find any Scottish computer company that could help with their needs, and had to use one, at tax-payer expense, housed in Labour's London Headquaters? Very odd. You would almost think that Scottish Labour have abused parliamentary allowances to pay for political campaigning?
87

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 12:28:07
89 Smells of sleaze?
88

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 12:38:23
Why did Nicol Stephen's public interference in the Aberdeen western by-pass, where he publicly opposed a planned route in his constituency, when Deputy First Minister, not interfere with the planning process?

And why do the Lib Dems want an inquiry before John Swinney has answered questions in parliament?
89

iain morrison,

nairn 16/12/2007 12:48:36
So the muppets who gave us Easterhouse, Cumbernauld, oversaw the destruction of the Inverness river front and think pedestrian crosings beside roundabouts are a good idea (The rest of Europe tends to go for under or over passes to avoid congestion and accidents)are worried, GOOD!

I refer you to the definition of an expert; - ex as in has been and spurt a drip under pressure.
90

McMillar,

Fife 16/12/2007 12:51:16
The Trump development is not about political point scoring. It’s about doing what is right for the NE and Scotland in general. A great opportunity and should be a catalyst. That’s why the objections from key political figures is so bizarre and completely out of touch with the local view. It’s fair to acknowledge that McConnell was instrumental initially and now Salmond has picked up to deliver. All parties should be completely behind this sort of initiative and collaborating to show some sort of unity. That would gain far more credibility than the ankle biting that is typical.
91

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 13:05:56
Ian McWhirter, SUnday Herald:

"But to accuse Salmond of behaving improperly is wide. The only apparent breach of the ministerial code involves using his official car to attend a constituency engagement with Trump which, if an offence, is trivial. There is no suggestion that any laws were broken and none of Salmond's people misrepresented their relationship with Trump."

92

kimba,

16/12/2007 13:16:04
so why are they hiding!
93

kimba,

16/12/2007 13:25:24
Ayrshirescot. In the light of Salmonds improper behavior, do you feel you have been duped by the SNP.
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16/12/2007 13:27:37
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16/12/2007 13:31:11
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alanh,

16/12/2007 14:06:39
am2 have you forgotten that they admitted to breaking the law, but that they sed it was unintentional?
Are you now claiming they never accepted illegal donations and the last few weeks are just a bad dream?

why the need for blind defence when you say that you support another party?
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16/12/2007 14:08:00
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16/12/2007 14:12:58
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juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 14:26:21
Poll currently on herald.

Do you support Scottish independence?
Yes
82.4%
No
17.6%

Your thoughts AM2?
101

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 14:32:01
117. Well, seeing the paper's website is swamped with the SNP mob, are YOU even surprised?
102

alanh,

ek? 16/12/2007 14:32:40
#115 AM2
I must have dreamed her admission to being sorry but sure that the comission would clear her of any intentional wrongdoing.Her team, for which she is responsible took an illegal donation. Much as you dislike it, much as you try to hide it that is a simple fact
Obviously I'm not as clever as you but your blinkerred comprehension of the whole issue is nearly as funny as the way nicol has ignored it and then attempted to smear snp and lose the NE a very important investment opportunity.
Then again I dont really expect fairness from your biased answers anyway.......but it is funny watching you wriggle and deflect
103

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 14:38:32
#118- Would that be because Labour no longer have rellevance in Scottish society and the numbers infered are reflective of Scotland as a whole?
104

Blimp proxy No. Umpteen,

16/12/2007 14:39:59
voila!
105

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 14:50:37
120. Er, no. Because its only a newspaper poll on a website that is swamped (as is every media website) by SNP card-carriers doing their bit for Party Central.

As the REAL poll still suggests a minority support for independence, does this 80% 'support' have any basis on fact and reality? I think not!

Even after a MASSIVE campaign of spin and propaganda to gather support for independence (how often is Salmond and co in the news spouting on about how the UK has damaged Scotland without actually providing any evidence? Daily?) along with an implosion by the main opposition, the SNP still, STILL, cannot get a majority in a snapshot poll!
106

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 14:53:45
115 AM2, I find your answer very curious. With Alexander, where Labour admitted to illegality, you remain studiously on the fence, but here, where no one can point to the rule or code they think has been broken, and there is no suggestion of illegality or personal/ political party gain, you don't adopt the same approach. I confess I am disappointed, and am thinking from this that you may be as biased and one dimensionally anti-SNP as some people have speculated.

The state of play:

- Labour, Tory, Lib Dems have all taken questionable foreign donations. The SNP have never done so.

- Labour, Tory, Lib Dem have MPs and very senior party figures convicted of various criminal offences, corruption and sleaze. This has never been the case with the SNP

- Labour, Tory and Lib Dems are now attacking the SNP on an issue where the SNP is working to benefit the NE and Scotland, and where no serious commentator has suggested any wrong doing, at a moment when the unionists are totally mired in illegal and improper funding at every corner.
107

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

16/12/2007 14:56:54
AM2

You are kinda struggling to make any kind of reasonable comment upon the success and popularity of the current Scottish government.

Indeed, your preferred option of Unionist cringe has now been rejected by the majority of the Scottish electorate
.
Boo hoo, it must be a fix, it is only a snapshot, there is no trend, deny, deny, deny.

The game’s a bogey, your tribe has been found out!

Your lack of understanding of Scottish idioms may be seen as somewhat of a disadvantage for those who care to comment upon Scottish affairs.

However, please do not let your lack of understanding constrain you from commenting upon issues you have little knowledge of.

We all like a laugh.
108

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 14:59:30
#124 - juan is my christian name and Kerr i my second. Whats the problem?

My point is. If labour is doing so well in Scotland, why are their supporters not turning out , even online for them?
All I am seeing is people distancing themselves from labour.

If the SNP are such a minority as you continualy sugest. Why is their such a public amount of support for them. Such as this easily accessible forum.
109

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:01:04
126 AM2

as he (Salmond) hasn't even been accussed of illegality, and as LAbour have admitted such, why are the two cases equal in your view?

Out of interest, what is your first reaction to Scottish Labour paying £40,000 in parliamentary allowances to "Computers for Labour" housed in London Labour HQ?
110

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 15:01:30
120. Just found that Herald poll and it demonstrates perfectly it is the SNP mob that swamp media websites, doesn't it. Thanks for pointing it out.

123. Er....what about the £500,000 donation from an owner of a private bus company just before the SNP dropped its pledge to re-regulate bus services??? This shows that even the SNP has its price, doesn't it.

111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:03:53
130 You refer to a legal, properly disclosed donation. This compares rather favourbaly to Labour's series of ILLEGAL, concealed donations. Not in the same ball park. Or court room.
What are your thoughts on Labour using £40,000 in tax payer public funds for "Computers for Labour" which, other than IT support which the Scottish parliament offers free, deals in political campaigning and is housed in Labour HQ?
112

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:06:00
133 And your thoughts on Labour's early, and clandestine, adoption of public funding for political campaigning?
113

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 15:06:48
127. "If the SNP are such a minority as you continualy sugest. Why is their such a public amount of support for them. Such as this easily accessible forum?"

Because you don't get people campaigning for the status quo, do you?!

"What do we want? The Status Quo! When do we want it? We already have it!"

You see?

114

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:07:10
133 AM2

do you think, if Trump withdraws and goes to Ireland due to adverse publicity etc, that the unionist handling of this issue could be said to have contributed to that and damaged investment in the NE of Scotland?
115

Carlo,

Fort William 16/12/2007 15:08:25
AM2 the replies posted at #124 and #126

Oh dear oh dear.....is this a first? the entity that is AM2 has just caught, filleted and fried itself....!!!!!

LOL.....it just gets funnier and funnier.....
116

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:08:48
135 If unionists do not campaign for what they want, that is up to them. It hardly helps your argument complaining that pro-independence people do - it merely highlights the fact that unionists seem demotivated or can't be bothered.
117

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:11:29
137 Do you think people have "jumped the gun" on Trump matters then?
118

AJ of Fife,

16/12/2007 15:14:04
God bless Alex, Nicola and John.

Scotland has never been in better hands!

Seasons greetings to Ayrshire, Hoops, Arthur(AM2)and even mental kimba.
119

Montague Q X Burton,

Toasty toes roaring fire...braw! 16/12/2007 15:14:43
#94

What Sir George Mathewson also gave £500,000 to the SNP as well as his valuable support and expertise? Fantastic news, I didn't know he was as spectacularly generous as that. Any links?
120

Evan Owen,

Dyffryn Ardudwy 16/12/2007 15:21:50
This is all assuming the planing 'system' had any integrity to begin with!!
121

Just_Me,

moray 16/12/2007 15:23:48
It does seem that this subject does seem to be based more on hot air and opinion than reality. I would strongly suspect that if there was even an inkling of ilegality in the SNP's recent actions then a labour minister (With what I would assume he thinks is good intentions) would have called the police in by now, just like as has had to be done to themselves in their two recent major fraud cases i.e. wendygate and honour dealing!

It would be worth noting that it was a lib councillor who put forward the no confidence motion that effectively sacked the fool of a chairman!
122

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 15:29:07
144

Just Me, are you unaware of the involvement of the police?
123

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 16/12/2007 15:29:49
Personally, I find it hard to believe that yet another golf course and estate will draw the money and provide the jobs that Donald Trump claims they will. There are thousands upon thousands of golf courses and golfing estates scattered all over the globe, many of these in spectacular locations.
124

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:30:57
145 That was not my question.

You said the Tories had "jumped the gun" on Computers for Labour.

Have the Libs/Tories/ Labour "jumped the gun" on this, given no illegality, no code breaking and no proof of such?
125

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:32:26
148 AM2

I am not following your logic. You said the Tories "jumped the gun" because the matter had not been investigated?

But you struggle to say, again where no evidence of wrong doing is to be found, the same here? Why?

They haven't "jumped the gun" because an inquiry might later uncover something?
126

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 16/12/2007 15:35:44
Dr Veronica Burbridge is 100% right. There has to be a 100% transparent, thorough planning process. We cannot have Scotland succumbing to any passing millionaire who waves a fistful of dollars in its face; a cheap tart willing to do anything for a buck. The SNP has given me the strongest impression that it took one look at the amount of money on offer, and fell onto its back. If a proper planning process has been followed by the people qualified and empowered to do so, then we should abide by their decision. Otherwise our country is for sale - a streetwalking strumpet.
127

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:36:43
152 Very well, I note the difference.

Do you think Labour are guilty of hypocrisy here, having stirred about use of a car, when McConnell twice hired helicopters at tax payer expense to give tours to Trump people?
128

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 16/12/2007 15:41:41
#AM2: A hard lesson that I have learnt is that no one reads a message precisely. People are emotional beings who react according to the general impression they receive from a message: they are not binary automatons given to exact Boolean analysis. Alas, a skilled politician knows that logic has little in common with popularity. If the import of what you write hangs on a single word, then take it for granted that your message will be garbled. Rewrite it.
129

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:45:10
157 I am not making a "two wrongs" argument Labour vs SNP. The three wrongs:

one wrong - McConnell publicly backing the plans as FM, which Salmond has not done.

second wrong - Nicol Stephen publicly opposing a by-pass planning application in his constituency as Deputy FM.

third wrong - Labour/ Lib hypocrisy possibly damaging to Scotland when Salmond has not publicly backed or opposed the scheme.
130

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:46:57
157 AM2 - Summarising your statments then-
- the illegal donations are a more serious matter
- the lib/labs may have jumped the gun on this issue
- there is no evidence of wrong doing by Salmond
131

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 15:55:07
162 AM2, what is innaccurate at 160?
132

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 15:58:26
160. Two 'illegal' donations of just £1,990 in total

OR

a certain SNP First Minister having several secret meetings (STILL waiting for these 'press releases') with a businessman about a £1,000,000,000 investment in HIS consituency and then suddenly bypassing local councils to have the scheme reviewed by....SNP ministers!

Like I say, this alongside the very suspicious timing of dropping a key pledge to re-regulate Scottish bus services just weeks after receiving a £500,000 'donation' from the owner of a bus company.

Let's review:

So we have the SNP whining about a £1,990 donation to Labour.

And then we have two very suspicious incidents by the SNP involving a £500,000 donation and "forbidden" interference by Salmond in a £1,000,000,000 investment.....in Salmond's very own constituency!

It very much looks like we have a classic diversionary tactic that even Montgomery would be proud of.

The hypocrisy of the SNP, let alone the stench of graft, is truly astonishing!

and that the SNP mob refuse to even question this to totally destroys any credibility they had....not they had much anyway.
133

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:00:13
Just because the police aren't involved YET, doesn't mean there is nothing illegal going on!
134

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:01:34
164 The £600,000 Abrahams donations were also illegal. As were the £5,000 Harmen and Hain donations. The use by Alexander of her parliamnetary office for fundraising appears to be against the code of conduct. The donation of £40,000 of public fund by Alexander and Co to "Computers for Labour" also appears to be against the code. The selling of peerages was dubious. As were the Hinduja's passports. And Blunketts lover/ nanny issue. And Mandelson's loans. And the £1 million returned to Ecclestone.....
135

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:02:44
165 Indeed. And where illegality has been admitted?
What law do you suspect Salmond has broken? Which part of the ministerial code has he broken, do you think?
136

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 16:04:02
Poor poor English Voice, the dribbling mentalist spokesman for the British Nationalists, when the police begin to investigate Salmond for meeting someone over a constituency matter then you can compare the two. Until then, please be satisfied that even though 'unintentional' the only politician to break the laws of the land belongs to the Labour party in Scotland..
137

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:06:21
164
"AS JACK McConnell strode into the 58-storey Trump Tower on New York's Fifth Avenue last October, he would have been forgiven for thinking how well things were going. Today, however, that meeting has come back to haunt him.
The billionaire's golf company was lavished with attention. Two memos released show that the public purse paid for two helicopter tours of Scotland, taking in the golf course site, as they showed off the country to their deep-pocketed American friends. McConnell offerred to put Government staff at Trumps disposal. E-mails show McConnell backed the plans.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=2775346

And Labour criticise Salmond for using his car? And for meeting Trump? Hypocrisy? Diversion? Desperation?

English Voice, car to comment?

English Voice, why did senior Labour, Liberal, Tory and SNP MSPs all syupport the decision to review the plans? Are they all in it together?

English voice, why did the parliament rural affairs committtee, chaired by a Lib Dem, also back the review decision?
138

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:08:55
170 AM2 - is there any evidence in the public domain to suggest illegality or wrong doing by Salmond?
139

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:09:44
166. So because Labour have been breeching donations rules, that justifies the (so-far only suspected) political corruption by the SNP? Excellent argument.

I'm not a Labour voter either and I look forward to reading about how the Labour Treasurer and Salmond get on in prison. I really hope they get to share a cell!

168. Ah, the baseless insults. That other mainstay of the SNP mob 'debate' along with lying, misquoting, selective quoting, exaggerating....
140

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 16:10:05
At the crux of this matter is the question of whether or not international business should invest in Scotland. It doesn't matter whether it's holiday resorts for the rich or widgets for Buckfast no self respecting CEO is ever going to look at Scotland and think what a great place to invest in.

The Lib Dems and Tories pretending to be a valid opposition have set back potential overseas investment in this country by decades.
141

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:12:28
Where.

Are.

These.

Press Releases?

How many times do I have to ask before you admit they don not exist?
142

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:13:11
172 What "political corruption" by the SNP?

Aberdeenshire council voted overwhelmingly to back the plan. 80% of locals back the plan. The council local area committee back the plan. Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and SNP MSPs and the parliament committee have backed the decision to review the plan. The SNP are reviewing a plan that has a lot of backing, including that of all party MSPs, councillors and the former FM.

Please stop your amusing, but hysterical and unenlightening cries, and explain what corruption you are accusing the government of?
143

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 16:14:17
#172 Where's the baseless insults? You are a dribbling mentalist spokesperson for the British Nationalists, that's a fact can you describe yourself in better terms?

Are you holding aloft a beacon of truth, are you a Brittanic hero or heroine (sorry I'm unsure of your specific gender), do you see yourself as the self proclaimed leader of the British Nationalist drones?

Come on old fruit let us know what you stand for.
144

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:14:33
172 "Ah, the baseless insults" - from someone who cannot state what law has been broken while screaming about Salmond going to prison. Would have to get alot better to be pathetic....
145

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:16:40
LOL! What am I saying!

The SNP mob have been thoroughly brainwashed into firmly believing Salmond is perfect (should we start banning printed images of The Great One?) and even if he did start a 10 year sentence for corruption and graft, the SNP mob would just believe it is wrongful imprisonment, probably by yet ANOTHER global conspiracy to oppress the SNP and Scotland.
146

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:16:59
172 "justifies the (so-far only suspected)...." - LMAO. WHat an accussation.

I suspect you of being a mass murderer (only a suspicion based on your hysterical output) - just because the police have not nabbed you YET just does not mean my suspicions are wrong! Is this your logic?
147

subrosa,

16/12/2007 16:17:38
#164 You're just a fool. Your allegations have been answered over and over again and you continue to spew this drivel.
148

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:17:54
178 EV

I note you haven't answered my questions. here they are again:

English Voice, why did senior Labour, Liberal, Tory and SNP MSPs all syupport the decision to review the plans? Are they all in it together?

English voice, why did the parliament rural affairs committtee, chaired by a Lib Dem, also back the review decision?
149

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:17:54
178 EV

I note you haven't answered my questions. here they are again:

English Voice, why did senior Labour, Liberal, Tory and SNP MSPs all syupport the decision to review the plans? Are they all in it together?

English voice, why did the parliament rural affairs committtee, chaired by a Lib Dem, also back the review decision?
150

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:25:27
183 AM2

certainly, I clarify my remarks above to

- you see the political/ legal aspects of the illegal donations Labour scandal as more serious than matters Trump, which may have more important economic repercussions
- you believe there is no evidence against Salmond publicly available

Correct?

151

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:25:51
176. "Where's the baseless insults? You are a dribbling mentalist spokesperson for the British Nationalists"

LOL!

Is 'being a supporter of the BNP' the best you can come up with??

This from the mob who call anyone who is anti-SNP "collaborators" (such as you, Ayrshire Scot), demand that all collaborators leave Scotland immediately (which would leave Scotland with a population of about 500,000 then), post racist insult after racist insult about anyone who is anti-SNP (that will be the vast majority of Scotland then)....etc etc

Oh dear. Plot lost, I believe.

Anyway, must get back to my day of relaxation.

I'll leave you to rant about that terrible £1,990 donation in your failed attempt to distract attention away from the your great leader's involvement in forcing through a rejected £1,000,000,000 scheme for his constituency.
152

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:26:05
185 I saw it. I marvel at how you differentiate one 5% increase vs another.
153

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 16:27:32
It does strike me as odd that belief in a political leader can only be construed by opposition drones as messianic devotion. These are the same people who hid in the shadows and whispered that Salmond had gambling addictions in 1999, in 2007 the whispers are that he's suffering from a drink problem, I await 2008's revelations that he felches rent boys and slaughters goats at s*inger's weekends with Tangerine Tam.

How sad it must be to have no faith in Brown, Cameron, Goldie, Stevens or (chortles up sleeve) Alexander.


PS Arf SoS won't allow the word s-w-i-n-g-e-r-s
154

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:27:33
187 I have never called anyone a "collaborator" and have condemned such language on a number of occassions. I have never said that anyone should be asked to leave anywhere based on their political views and have condemned such views repeatedly.

Please retract your silly lies.
155

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:28:15
189 I won't? Poor Tommy. Does it allow cocaine and sex clubs?
156

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16/12/2007 16:28:35
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157

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 16:29:03
Poor old English Voice when exposed as a dribbling mentalist he flees the scene like Garry Glitter at a nativity play.
158

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:31:14
193 Swinging is allowed it seems. But not the plural of people who might. Poor Tommy. Off to the big house again.
159

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:33:41
Has anyone noticed how there are far, far fewer posters from the SNP mob now that multiple usernames are harder to register?

That is very curious!
160

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:35:36
195 How do you know that multiple user names are harder to register, do tell?
161

Carlo,

Fort William 16/12/2007 16:36:19
AM2 #150

Actually they are true....you've already been skinned alive on the Sunday Heralds forums for your ridiculous contradictions.....

No amount of pomposity or verbosity will detract from the fact that you have refused to comment or condemn any of the unionist MSP's recent criminal activites.

You are simply a unionist windbag whose attempt at spin and deflection is so transparent that even a labour voter could see through them....!!!

LOL

Roll on the general election......Its time
162

Just_Me,

16/12/2007 16:36:21
146. W U Merchant

Im not aware of any police involvement!
163

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:37:56
195 Has anyone noticed that there are now only 2 unionists (and one is not really much help to their cause) now that as EV has reported multiple user names are harder to register? Wonder how he knows that?
164

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 16:43:09
#196

I believe that is referred to in the sporting vernacular as 'game, set and match'.

Poor poor English Voice, all day long sat at the computer trying to create a plethora of usernames and clones and merely left with the hapless 'English Voice', now would that be Bill Sykes or Frank Windsor?
165

Just_Me,

16/12/2007 16:46:37
This whole incident is really just an explosion of bad decision making/practises at aberdeen council.

Labour would have had to pull it from a council if the same scenario applied in middle England.

It was a decision that was far bigger than a small sub committee of 15 should have been deciding. By the time they were at 50/50 the decision was already skewed towards comittee members personal politics rather than their community obligation! The chair should have put that right and not simply follow his own need rather than the community he represents.

Im afraid that the government pulling the decision out is in fact democracy at its most honest. The real question now is how such a huge decision was left in the hands of so few people and how did this group manage to get so heavily weighed towards the opinion of the majority self serving nimby's!

Its not like trump is getting an automatic yes! As far as Im aware Alex Salmond has no part to play in the future of the planning decision!

I think labour would do well not to shoot themselves in the foot, like making laws to limit bit party donaters and then falling foul of them theirselves!
166

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:46:47
And only 5 SNP activists when there used to be dozens!

And as with the "massive support for independence" that saw just 0.8% of the adult population download the SNP's much publicised White Paper on independence (undoubtedly 'revelation of the week'), it seems that the SNP mob is merely the thinnest of thin blue lines.

Now I am going as the second half is about to begin.

Oh, such fun!
167

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:50:04
200 AM2 point me to the publicly available evidence of illegality or wrong doing by Salmond and I will clarify when I have seen what it is.
168

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:50:57
206 EV fourth time. Why don't you answer these questions?

English Voice, why did senior Labour, Liberal, Tory and SNP MSPs all syupport the decision to review the plans? Are they all in it together?

English voice, why did the parliament rural affairs committtee, chaired by a Lib Dem, also back the review decision?
169

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 16:51:50
203. Exactly!

Secret meetings with an investor shortly before bypassing local authorities to force through a £1,000,000,000 scheme in his own constituency.

No sniff of major corruption there at all.
170

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:51:56
206

How do you know that multiple IDs are harder to register? You have carelessly ommitted your answer to that question as well.
171

subrosa,

16/12/2007 16:52:24
#183 AM2

Can you cut and paste the links for the BBC question and also the two SNP replies.
172

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:52:31
210 "secret" meetings which were reported in the local press some weeks ago?
173

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:54:52
210 PS, EV, the press releases are referenced in columns by Bell and McWhirter, and Labour have questioned who issued them (i.e whether Salmond issued them via the Gov info service or via his constituency). Please keep up. If the press releases had not been issued, the meetings would not have been reported in the local press thereafter, they would not have been mentioned in columns and Labour would not have questioned how they were issued.

"Secret" meetings indeed.
174

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 16:57:51
210 Salmond also backed the plans at an election hustings meeting in Inverurie in April, before he was FM (as FM he cannot back it publicly). All very secret - only every other candidate and 100 locals, local press etc were present. All hush hush.
175

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:02:49
215 Are those "SNP" replies or replies from politcally neutral civil servants AM2?

Just, as you have made the points above about precision, it would be unfortunate if you gave the impression that an SNP spokesperson or minister had answered these questions when in fact it was a neutral civil servant? Wouldn't it? Trust you'll clarify?
176

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 17:04:01
#217

Aye away and play with the bairns, give your wife a break feller. I've had several scowls and I'm only on here a fraction of the time you're on!
177

,

16/12/2007 17:07:31
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178

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 17:07:32
Here you go a headline I never expected to see in the Hootsman on Sunday.


"Sweet smell of independence defies corporate blandness."


http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/opinion/Sweet-smell-of-independence-.3594783.jp
179

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 17:08:55
#221 Meths are you ready to join SoSAnonymous?

180

,

16/12/2007 17:10:48
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181

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:17:01
222, 225 Hi fakey me.

182

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 17:20:01
How galling it must be to get on here with a fakey name, then discover it's the only name you can use. All your own fascinating insights, thoughts and deliberations forever rent asunder, all so you can attempt to undermine a chap that you so obviously want to have b-u-m-s-e-x with. Simply galling.
183

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:20:31
228 Is Maltese or English Voice (weird, EV never answered how he knew multiple IDs are harder to register now). Both are clearly still smarting and a tad cross. hehehehe
184

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:23:20
229 Montague

is the b-s word pre-banned as well? Discrimination I say!
185

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:24:49
229 Report the fakie - a few reports may see him permanently disbarred. Hoos poos. (I don't do elderly transvestites anyway, so he is wasting his affections on me)
186

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 17:25:10
Lavander gag of the day.

How do you know you're gay?

When you bend over and see four balls.

Boom and indeed tish!
187

boudica,

Glasgow 16/12/2007 17:25:46
In all the recent press regarding the SNP Election they tell of the spending of their fund but that 1 donation isnt on the list ..just wonder why and yep I remeber seeing it in the Media because not long after the Ex RSB Boss donated ..Salmond was talking about giving the RSB the same deal Labour gave the Bank of England ....and I am surprised at how stupid Wee Eck as been over this Trumpland Fiasco as they gave Mc Connell a hard time over his dalliance with him ..did Wee Eck think no one would question his being at any meetings with trumps people ...or maybe his arrogance got the better of him ..
188

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:27:14
233 Meths

I can only say in my own defence, he is rich and offered me use of his house in Malta, and I thought the diving etc would be good. A couple of months seeing a geriatric, and first hand experience of his drunken tantrums and constant demands to be wolf-bagged by a younger man, and I was sick of him. It is sad that he plays out a private matter on here by stalking an ex in this way. He is clearly stil fixated with me. I would rather forget the whole matter.
189

Montague Q X Burton,

16/12/2007 17:28:09
#236 Boudica, in amongst the ramblings of your strangled syntax I detect a question struggling to come to the surface. Can you please rephrase it in a way more understandable to humans than dogs?
190

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:29:22
233 He told me he wasy 49 when we met in CC blooms. He is actually 68, but has had an acid peel and botox. His bottom is very saggy and wrinkly. He was also considering a scrotum lift. More money than elasticity sadly. How i wish I could forget.....

191

WL,

livingston 16/12/2007 17:29:39
What has the Royal Town Planning Institute got to do with the Trump application?
192

boudica,

16/12/2007 17:35:31
239...There is nothing worse than someone who tries to give the impression they are both educated and Intelligent but you Sir even fail at that miserably ....You dont happen to be Wee Ecks spin doctor ????
193

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:35:39
244 Nice house in Malta though. Big pool. I was blinded (and had a cold at first, so my sense of smell was out, shocker when it returned - stale pee and moth balls pervaded through-out). Gravity has been unkind to him though, not least to his visibly drooping knee caps. Horrid. He should just move on and forget me, was a youthful mistake on my part, why is he stalking me still?
194

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:36:15
245 Stop stalking me you old pig. I will not go out with you again.
195

boudica,

16/12/2007 17:40:31
Meth ..Hiya!!! didnt stay long enough to see the answer earlier ..just catching up ....
196

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:40:47
250 Is weird, no?????? Kimba uses the most !!!!!!!!!!
197

boudica,

Glasgow 16/12/2007 17:41:25
Why not Meth ??????????????
198

Karin M,

16/12/2007 17:41:43
so anyway are they still running this boring story. havent been on in days because i hate the whole website it suckee big much. and as for the where are the nats lots of us hate the website thats why we are not on. had an email from the electoral commision the other day about wendy(it wisnae me)alexander. here is the reply i got.

Dear Ms xxxxxx


Thank you for your email of 7 December 2007.



We have received material from Wendy Alexander and will be reviewing the information.



We will not comment further during our review.

199

overton,

Balmedie 16/12/2007 17:42:23
210 An English Voice:
You are an embarrassment to England - go away, have a rest, then try and get a job. At that time you should be able to review your hypocritical self-righteous new wave commie viewpoint properly and gain an enlightened understanding of how business works for the benefit of all, including low life wasters like your mouthy self.
200

blair,

North Berwick 16/12/2007 17:48:38
I have always understood that it was the duty of a Chairman to vote for the Status Quo in the event of a tied vote. As far as sleaze is concerned, it might be a good idea to have an enquiry and if it cleared the Scottish Government it would be the proof that Labour/LibDem are smelling their own excrement.
201

Karin M,

16/12/2007 17:51:23
I thought am2 hated the webiste i guess the restoration of the cut and paste function sorted him out. By the way AM2 your reasoning on the polls escapes me. A new poll showing support for independence at 40 percent is produced and you rubbish it because it does not ask about devolution mark 2 and yet you support the idea that it is a good idea not to include a question on independece in the gang of threes little constitunional soiree. Please do not explain your failed logic as i fear you will show yourself up again.
202

boudica,

Glasgow 16/12/2007 17:52:29
Meth ...It is Just one of my little peccadillo`s ....
203

Karin M,

16/12/2007 17:52:58
258 naw smelling in it. sitting in it and bathing in it more like. I want to know whats happening with donor gate and i want to know now.
204

Karin M,

16/12/2007 17:53:49
261 sleepy happy dopey and criminal. or is that dwarfs.
205

Karin M,

16/12/2007 17:54:44
anyway going to do xmas pressie wrapping. catch u all later.
206

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:58:37
260 One of many. God, I wish i ould forget
207

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 17:59:19
261 Paste the link again? (????)
208

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 18:01:56
255 Meths, still you were very hospitable when we visited you. And you didn't make a thing about his age. I at least appreciated it. Just be thankful I was the one with the travel details and your address or he would be stalking you too.
209

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 18:11:07
270 LMAO. That is great. I have to say Wendy and Alex look the most Santa elfy with their cheeky wee grins. La Goldie looks like a man, and Nicol looks like he is concentrating very hard to remember the moves.

Re. 271, yeah, sorry about his wee "mistake" in your bathroom. I was affronted, but he doesn't remember it and I was too tactful to mention it to him the next day. Best forgotten
210

b h,

dornoch 16/12/2007 18:14:00
How far is the proposed Trump TIGL site from Balmedie, and is it to the North or South of Balmedie?

Thanks.
211

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16/12/2007 18:14:25
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212

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 18:21:30
276 Maltese ( aka Graeme....). Stop it. We had a wee fling. Its over. Accept it. You are only embarrassing yourself. If you keep it up (something you never managed in other areas, ahem) I'll post your details and a fuller account of the "episode" in Meths bathroom.
213

Conan the Librarian™,

16/12/2007 18:39:38
Evening All.
My wife has just bought wee santa suits for the dugs.

Over my twitching corpse...
214

Conan the Librarian™,

16/12/2007 18:58:59
Twas the wifie no' me.
My dugs are highly trained anti-rabbit operatives.


http://www.dogcoats.net/catalog/images/ContentImages/ClipClose1.jpg

Mair like it:-)



215

,

16/12/2007 18:59:54
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216

,

16/12/2007 19:01:14
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217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 19:03:10
286 Not the only ones. At least you had the good grace to take you false teeth out.....
218

,

16/12/2007 19:04:29
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219

,

16/12/2007 19:07:57
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220

Harris tweed and levi's 501,

16/12/2007 19:41:15
Where does Annabel Goldie hide her wife?

Perhaps it is yon AM2 character, who being unable to understand Scottish idioms retires frequently dazed and confused.

Perhaps she is merely away to ask the advice of the Right Reverend, Dr, Sir, Lord, Slayer of the Antichrist, winner of the Nobel Explosives prize for blowing people to pieces, drug Baron extrordinary, Mad Some Ballon or other, VC, VD and Bar.

221

Nikostratos,

16/12/2007 20:08:01
This website is no fun anymore..I'm going to give it a miss for a while see if it improves.

And the email i got said 'more interactive' like oh!yeah
watching paint dry

goodbye.......
222

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 20:11:56
291 bye
223

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 16/12/2007 20:45:24
#275

Its just north of Balmedie Country Park. Starting at Blairton Links and ending south of Drum Links.
224

Kipling,

16/12/2007 21:53:22
Ayrshire Scot. you didn't get 200. Here's a step on the way to 300.
225

Kipling,

16/12/2007 21:59:40
You didn't get 200 because you've posted too many 103s.
226

Kipling,

16/12/2007 22:05:56
Can golf course holes be used as nesting places for hedgehogs?
227

Kipling,

16/12/2007 22:07:10
Wini, that was crude. Go tend to your bulls.
228

Kipling,

16/12/2007 22:09:24
My argument for investing in something is whether it can be used for more than one thing.
229

Royster,

16/12/2007 22:11:41
Scotland's First Minister, Mrs Trump, should resign immediately. He is a swaggering fool of the first order who cares only for his self-agrandisment.
230

Kipling,

16/12/2007 22:15:32
Your naked ambition.
231

Wini`,,

16/12/2007 22:19:54
Ha!
232

Wini`,,

16/12/2007 22:20:37
HA !
233

Wini`,,

16/12/2007 22:22:30
HA !
234

Wini`,,

16/12/2007 22:23:35
I have pooed
235

Wini`,,

16/12/2007 22:24:47
Ha ! 400 i come
236

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 22:24:52
I smell AM2 approaching. The force is deffinately in a stae of flux.................
237

 Ayrshire Scot™,

16/12/2007 22:28:29
311. Yes, there is a disturbance in the force. he is near
238

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 22:38:19
The thing is. This planner above was once a senior office holder at SNH or the National Trust. This surely points to a heavy biase also, as their sister organisations in England are currently buying up any land to stop development.
239

Pilrig,

Livingston 16/12/2007 22:41:34
289 - she had integrity, none of her enemies/critics would deny that. Unfortunately the present Scottish government, otherwise doing a pretty good job, are coming a cropper over the Trump affair.
Sad to watch really.
You need a long spoon to sup wi' the deil.
240

Pilrig,

Livingston 16/12/2007 22:46:06
288 - you slaver a load of p*sh, bud.
241

Elizabeth I (1558-1603 AD),

edinburgh 16/12/2007 22:59:42
Great! This is just the first of many slip ups, you may surive this one and not go down this time 'President' Alex, but your days are numbered.
242

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 23:06:14
#316- perhaps in the mind of a deluded scots hater like your ginger harpy self.

243

Adonis,

16/12/2007 23:12:18
snp drones
244

Adonis,

16/12/2007 23:13:10
snp
245

Pilrig,

Livingston 16/12/2007 23:17:54
316 - all our days are numbered, Bess. You really should get laid, you auld virgin, you.
246

,

16/12/2007 23:27:38
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247

,

16/12/2007 23:33:06
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248

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 23:38:08
And the stench of corruption gets stronger and stronger!

"Questions have been asked over the role of senior government figures, but SNP MSP Alex Neil said an inquiry was a "complete waste of time"."

A parliamentary inquiry investigating SNP interference in a £1billion scheme in SNP First Minister's very own constituency....and the SNP call it a "waste of time"?

Why oppose it if they have nothing to hide? This is getting a lot of UK-wide publicity so surely it would be a perfect opportunity to prove the SNP are not a party of sleaze.

Very strange behaviour by the SNP, totally inconsistent with their claims that they have "followed the rules to the letter."
249

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

16/12/2007 23:45:26
#321- The only thing i smell is you attempting to make soup with only water.
250

An English Voice,

16/12/2007 23:50:58
I never knew this!

"It also emerged that, on the day ministers called in the Trump application, Aberdeenshire Council confirmed it had terminated a call with the government's chief planner, Jim McKinnon, as Mr Trump's team was also present."

Trump representatives were with SNP officers ON THE VERY SAME DAY the scheme was called in for review by the SNP.

Was everyone involved in the same room for this? Or was it just the SNP and Trump's reps?

Mr Neil said the SNP had nothing to fear from an inquiry, adding: "It's unnecessary and a complete waste of time: "There's no need for an inquiry, there's no justification for an inquiry, because everybody in the Scottish Government has followed all the codes to the letter and everything has been done according to the rule book."

Oh, why didn't you say so? We'll stop investigating then.

Who gives a damn abaout a meagre £1,990 when £1,000,000,000 is involved!
251

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

17/12/2007 00:05:27
#323 cont. - So says English voice , whilst running around squawking like a chicken.........
252

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/12/2007 00:59:59
Let's face it, if you are opposed to the development, you are going to look for a conspiracy whether there is one or not. If you are for the development, you know that, even if there is a conspiracy, the Govt are acting in the interests of the vast majority.

It is highly unlikely that there is a conspiracy, however, because Salmond is not stupid enough to meet Trump on the Monday and allow the application to be called in the next day. He's too long in the tooth for that and couldn't have known.

The opposition parties now have to decide whether or not they want to pursue the development or whether they want to pursue Alex Salmond. If they do the latter, they may find nothing AND lose a £billion investment opportunity in the bargain.
253

Reasonable person,

Dundee 17/12/2007 09:46:51
I am an RTPI member and I was not consulted on Ms Burbridge's letter. I am very concerned about MY professional institute becoming involved in gutter politics.
254

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 19/12/2007 23:44:51
SNP apologists should be ashamed of themselves as they can't even accept this commnetray from a professional who doesn't have a particular political axe to grind. The present adminstration will end us sensible Scots up in court if they continue to behave in such a high handed manner. Just accept your medicine for once and stop behaving like headless chickens as one tantrum follows another in your pathetic attempts to defend the indefensible.
255

fiona hardie,

aberdeenshire 22/12/2007 13:07:11
FORE!

Article from Daily Mail, Saturday December 8th 2007-12-11
He is the man in charge of realising Donald Trump’s £1billion vision to build ‘the greatest golf course anywhere in the world’ on a stunning stretch of Scottish coastline.
But people in another community which the US tycoon’s right-hand man in Scotland also pledged to transform said last night that they were still ‘paying the price’ for backing that scheme.
Neil Hobday is project manager of Trump’s dream to create a world-class golfing complex in Balmedie, Aberdeenshire - featuring two championship courses, a five star hotel and housing.
But his high-profile role with Trump International Golf Links Scotland has riled the people of Spey Bay on the Moray coast. He promised to revive the area when he took over the Spey Bay Hotel and driving range and the lease of the historic Spey Bay golf Course in 2004. however, a year later, the company, Spey Bay Golf Links Ltd., went into administration owing almost £1million.
The course had been gifted to the local community by the Duke of Gordon in 1905 and is owne3d by Crown Estates, but is traditionally managed by the hotel owner.
An ambitious plan was put forward, involving the creation of a £600,000 clubhouse, golf lodges, greenkeepers’ maintenance facilities and an upgrading of the 18-hole links course to championship standard. It was to be funded by the construction of 21 houses on the site occupied by the hotel. In March 2004, Mr Hobday said he believed the venture’s potential was ‘immense’. He added: ‘We want to attract wealthy golfers from the UK, Europe and North America. Everyone in the local area could benefit from that and Spey Bay would be put back on the golfing map’.
But documents from the receiver show that in 2005 the company owed almost £948,000 - £500,000 to Allied Irish Banks, £280,000 to the previous owner of the complex and nearly £168,000 to local businesses.
This meant the loss of 25 jobs, the loss of facilities to golf club member
256

HEN BROON 5,

17/01/2008 11:43:16
329 Liberal for life,Dunblane 19/12/2007 23:44:51
SNP apologists should be ashamed of themselves as they can't even ..................blah blah blah cringe cringe cringe, WHAT THE F ARE YOU ON ABOUT.


THERE ARE NOW ALMOST 15,000 SIGNATURES SUPPORTING THIS SCHEME.
257

HEN BROON 5,

17/01/2008 11:44:22
#330 Does that have any bearing on the Balmeddie scheme?

 

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