Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Sunday, 29th June 2008 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Scotland On Sunday site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Fuel strike 'will bleed pumps dry'



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 20 April 2008
SCOTLAND is set to be hit by crippling fuel shortages within days after plans for a strike at the country's biggest oil refinery led to it being shut down for safety reasons.
Motorists could find petrol and diesel supplies beginning to dry up as early as Friday, the company which owns the giant Grangemouth plant warned last night.

Experts fear fuel shortages are likely to last for a month and the disruption is set to spread well beyond drivers to affect the entire transport and distribution network and even the emergency services.

More than 1,000 workers are due to walk out on strike on April 27 and 28 in a row with owner, Ineos, over pensions.

Yesterday Ineos began shutting down Grangemouth, Scotland's only crude oil refinery, on safety grounds. The process, which has never been tried before, takes several days. Restarting production is also a long and complex procedure.

Ineos said that as well as potentially cutting off fuel supplies to Scotland for a month, the north of England would also be hit. The Forties oil field, which pumps crude oil to Grangemouth, would have to cease production for several weeks.

Tom Cotty, their chief executive, last night admitted that the strike would cause "fuel chaos" but blamed the union, Unite, insisting that concessions had been ignored.

He said: "The union is well aware that a 48-hour strike will cause fuel chaos in Scotland and the north of England for weeks on end.

"This is a huge oil refinery and they know you can't just turn it on and off like a tap. A month is our best guess but safety considerations will be at the forefront of everything we do.

"It is not our wish to suspend production at Grangemouth but Unite has given us no choice. They have deliberately chosen a course of action that is the minimum pain for them but which will inflict the maximum pain on Scotland and the whole of the UK."

The imminent crisis will reawaken memories of the fuel crisis of 2000, when a protest by hauliers triggered panic buying from motorists, leading to shortages across the country.

Industry figures last night warned that a repeat of the panic buying across Scotland was now likely. Filling stations have between three and seven days' fuel supply left, depending on their location.

A spokesman for the UK Petroleum Industry Association said: "The danger is that people will dash out and stockpile fuel and generate shortages."

Pat Glancey of the Road Haulage Association said: "Our members are greatly concerned with this situation. It would be absolutely disastrous for us if the strike meant that petrol stations were going to run out of fuel."

David Capitanchik, a national security and oil industry expert with Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen, said strike action could bring chaos to forecourts. "Any stoppage could also cause serious fuel shortages in Scotland and beyond for a month or longer."

A senior police insider confirmed that measures were being prepared to ensure that essential services would not be disrupted.

He said: "Our first concern is obviously to the wider community and to ensure that life in general continues along as unaffected by this as possible.

"What we do not want to see is people rushing out to petrol stations filling up their cars and other containers and trying to hoard supplies."

The UK Government and the Scottish Government are liaising to discuss ways to ensure supplies of gas, oil and other fuel are maintained. Ministers hope Ineos and Unite will reach a deal but last night the two sides were still trading blows.

Unite national secretary, Phil McNulty, said that Ineos was demanding cuts to workers' pensions at the same time as making £3m a day on the plant. "Industrial action is now inevitable," he said.

But Ineos said the union's claim that the refinery made £3m a day was "nonsense", and repeated that it needed to invest £750m in the site, which would not be profitable for at least seven years.

FULL STORY: Bank crisis, high street blues and now petrol pumps could run dry

The full article contains 692 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

19/04/2008 20:10:09
An Open Letter To Alex Salmond....

---------------

Dear First Minister,

I suspect you are old enough to remember the disasterous Ted Heath/Harold Wilson Governments, with rocketing fuel prices, queues at petrol forecourts, electricity blackouts, strikes, and the winter of discontent ?

Sorry but I am having Deja Vu with this current mess.

Rocketing fuel prices, queues at petrol forecourts and strikes by intransigent unions forced by employers that are frankly "at it" with shutting down the only refinery we have for a month on "safety" grounds. More like they are pushing the union with bad publicity in the same force that the archaic acting union is pushing the refinery managers.

MEANWHILE AN ENTIRE NATION GRINDS TO A HALT.

As our First Minister, what are you going to do about this please ?

Yours faithfully,

Seriously Angry From Argyll.

---------------

P.S. I just bought a generator. The only thing missing from the 1970's revisited are the power cuts and that is only a matter of time :@)

P.P.S You got my vote in 2007, but I might be taking it back if you aren't able to sort this mess out.
2

Forward not Back,

20/04/2008 00:07:20
I can see Salmond now - "Independence would mean that oil will run freely, these men will keep their pensions, fuel tax will be reduced and utopia will be here".

Brass necks to the fore this week.
3

Keenan,

Lanarkshire 20/04/2008 00:19:43
Get out and fill up your tanks today people.
4

democrate,

near Grangemouth 20/04/2008 00:23:39
Maybe it's time for U.D.I. and we in Scotland can reclaim our oil and our petrol and sell it to the rest of the world if we feel like it, and not if we don't.
5

Jackie Priest,

20/04/2008 00:39:18
Bicylces.

6

Senga Jean,

SCotland 20/04/2008 00:42:55
#1 #2 OIL IS A RESERVED MATTER> HOWEVER I THINK ALEX SALMOND WILL TRY HIS BEST not to pick fights with Westminster to get it sorted. Sorted!
7

Forward not Back,

20/04/2008 00:50:32
#7 - I'm aware oil is a reserved matter (as are pensions). The point is that it won't stop Salmond trying to make as much political capital out of it as possible, despite the fact that final salary schemes are dead.
8

Jackie Priest,

20/04/2008 00:58:15
#8

So you would rather Scots just sat back and did nothing forever.

You must be so proud of yourself.
9

Guga II,

Rockall 20/04/2008 01:08:01
#9 He's so proud of himself that he'll probably sit there tugging his forelock for the rest of his natural.
10

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 20/04/2008 01:17:29
Please let's go for INDEPENDENCE NOW. and get rid of the old fashioned employers who would shaft themselves if they only had the guts, instead they pick on the most vunerable the employee. FCUK EM.
11

2Right,

On Location 20/04/2008 01:49:48
All motorists in Scotland and England should protest at the prices of the stuff at the same time.
Then maybe when they re-open again after the strike the petrol will be cheaper.
The prices now are just daftly ridiculous
12

Forward not Back,

20/04/2008 02:59:02
#8 - Hardly. There are two stories here. One is the pension scheme - final salary schemes are dying on their feet and it's about time the public sector schemes died too. Striking over them won't preserve them because we are all living longer and they are becoming unaffordable.

The second point is that Salmond et al will blame New Labour for this when the fact of the matter is that it is an inevitability.
13

,

20/04/2008 06:16:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 20/04/2008 06:32:35
I remember SUEZ 1956-57. The story was told of the lady, in Glasgow I think, whose car ran out beside a shop, so she ran in, came back out with a bottle of whisky, emptied into the tank and carried on, at least for a bit further. It's an ILL WIND THAT BLOWS NO GOOD. At least somebody profited.
15

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 20/04/2008 06:35:30
Jackie 6.
Dinna think you'd get far on that thing.
16

Jam Tarts 1874,

On the Rebound 20/04/2008 07:55:57
#5. You are talking rubbish! The shortfalls in defined benefit pension schemes have nothing to do with the Government of the day. It has everything to do with global share values and the amount of money Employers have to spend to cover their liabilities because of the drops in share values.

A properly managed defined contribution pension scheme can provide the same benefits in retirement.
17

Jam Tarts 1874,

On the Rebound 20/04/2008 07:56:49
#5. P.S. BP sold Grangemouth 3 years ago, try and keep up!
18

kimba,

20/04/2008 08:00:06
we'll that's another fine mess salmond has got you into.
19

cabrach loon,

inverness 20/04/2008 08:04:43
this is so called UK so why should scotland be treated as a separate entity when one UK refinery wants to strike / what about all the other refineries and imports from europe / this is pathetic / also final salary pensions are unsustainable these days with investment uncertainties!
20

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 20/04/2008 08:10:27
You can run a car on methane from composted chicken/human/animal dung; or on wood alcohol/gas from a wood gassifier fitted to a trailer. I bet instructions for both are on the web somewhere. Mother earth News certainly has full building plans for the wood gassifier. Don't despair: ingenuity will get you there!

Of course, those Noahs of us with an electric bike powered from a wind turbine.......
21

TommyAtkins,

Edinburgh 20/04/2008 08:19:48
#17 Pension shortfalls have a LOT to do with G Brown's removal of tax relief from pensions. And when I see MPs, MSPs etc changing to Defined Contribution, then I will believe such schemes as being as good as Defined Benefit.
Only I hear that A Salmond is removing Scottish Parliamentarians (+executive, +local authority) pensions from index linked, final salary schemes, just then will I take the SNP as being a serious political party, rather than being simply anti-british.
22

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 20/04/2008 08:29:43
If Unite felt that they could bring down the SNP Government by bringing Scotland to a standstill they would not hesitate to do so.
Their senior officials have shown by their speeches and publications to be so full of hate for the SNP that it is almost beyond belief.
23

kimba,

20/04/2008 08:33:31
23.Just as the SNP are full of hate for GB,the English part mainly!
24

Blindscout,

dunfermline 20/04/2008 08:45:19
what next between the rise in fuel and now not being able to get it great fun , oh
what a lovely fine mess this time mr salmond
25

The Strategist,

20/04/2008 08:45:56
Given there is a liquid fuel supply problem looming anyway then this strike will provide a preview of what life is going to be like not that far in the future.
26

Scoop in the City,

20/04/2008 08:53:42
#5 Your memory deceives you. Petrol coupons were never used in the 70's - despite being issued by the government.
27

kimba,

20/04/2008 08:55:01
You are about to have a taste of what life would be like in salmonds independent scotland;you poor bu--ers!
28

,

20/04/2008 09:01:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

kimba,

20/04/2008 09:07:36
29.Well,if you are so stupid not to understand I suggest you read post 23!
30

fife runner,

20/04/2008 09:10:58
non contributary final salary scheme. What world are they in
31

,

20/04/2008 09:12:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

kimba,

20/04/2008 09:20:59
32.Not at all,but if salmond was a little less anti GB [COME TO THINK OF IT HE'S ANTI EVERYTHING}then maybe Scotland wouldn't find itself in this position.
33

subrosa,

20/04/2008 09:24:38
This is the result of selling out to foreigners.
34

11+failed,

the pans 20/04/2008 09:33:50
With these sort of headlines the lemmings will be filling their tanks and creating queues at the pumps.
Sadly I have just topped up both cars!
35

whatsyourname,

20/04/2008 09:36:34
Good for you Scotland...bring down the prices too..theres no need for it being that high...I am proud that you fight back...
36

Richard M,

Scottish Raj 20/04/2008 09:44:08
Water, water everywhere and all that......
37

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 20/04/2008 09:46:28
Even though energy is a reserved matter, the unionists will do everything in their power to put the blame on Salmond if the forecourts dry up.
Grangemouth is not the only refinery in the UK.
I would wish to know what is the pensions norm in the industry? Why are no other oil companies similarly affected? Why is only one part of the UK being disproportionately affected. What emergency powers does the UK have to ensure the distribution of fuel?
I cannot think that a UK government would allow London to grind to a halt if fuel was readily available in the rest of the UK.
The Scottish Government really has no powers to take charge in this as it is not a devolved matter. It will be interesting to see what powers the UK seek to use. In a situation where one plant can bring the whole of the country to a standstill some state of emergency powers must exist which can be used. But it will be for Gordon Brown to exercise them not Alex Salmond.
It would not surprise me if the Labour Government is quite happy to stand back and do nothing and allow their affiliated trade union to inflict punishment on Scotland for voting SNP in order to project the image that in an independent Scotland fuel crises will become the order of the day.
38

Mcsnagpile,

20/04/2008 09:48:44
10 Sept 02005----UNIONS have welcomed the dollars-9 billion (GBP5bn) sale of BP's Innovene chemicals unit, which employs 1300 people at Grangemouth, to Southampton-based Ineos.
Only 100 staff connected to the Forties pipeline will remain as BP employees at the Grangemouth complex once the deal completes in early 2006.
Jim Mowatt, of the Transport & General Workers Union, said:
"Ineos is a company which has looked after its workers well and has good relations with trade unions.
"We have embraced change ... Go on gee's a kiss.
39

McX,

20/04/2008 09:53:17
The Japanese government this week, temporarily CUT tax on fuel, for the next few months, to aid the population and boost the economy. If Brown or Darling were to do something similar, their popularity would soar.

Can Kimba, in a sensible manner explain why he thinks this is Salmond's fault?

40

Toast,

20/04/2008 10:20:54
Why should private sector workers lose their final salary pensions but have to subsidise public sector employees schemes.
41

cleaning the bathroom,

washing the cat. 20/04/2008 10:32:37

"What we do not want to see is people rushing out to petrol stations filling up th
eir cars and other containers and trying to hoard supplies."

so what contingency plan do you have in place??

I'm off to fill my commercial van with diesel mate...
42

kimba,

20/04/2008 10:33:49
40. If post 23 is to be believed,it would make sense to presume no salmond no problem,funny how it's only a scottish refinery taking strike action!
43

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/04/2008 10:36:54
Of course Broon's tax raid on private pensions disnae help, add to that we're ALL and I mean ALL crucified by the tax on fuel. I mean the food going to the shops disnae fly through the air by itself.
44

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/04/2008 10:38:28
I was referring to the Jambo at 17
45

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/04/2008 10:41:42
41 - spot on.

43 - Wendy and Broon are oor saviours !
46

kimba,

20/04/2008 10:46:06
46.Now you're just being facetious.
47

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News 20/04/2008 10:50:39
Alex Salmond has been in power less than a year.... and some people are trying to blame him for this...?
48

kimba,

20/04/2008 10:55:36
48.It's not how long he's been in power,but his approach to situations,and boy can he moan and whinge,usually at bu--er all.
49

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/04/2008 10:56:00
47 - no, no I get your drift. Had Jack McC still been 1st Minister this Grangemouth rammy wouldn't have happened ?
50

Angus Ogg,

20/04/2008 10:58:36
#14,

Trust me, Gordon Brown got one too. But I don't have much faith in McAvities Cat. With all the trouble he has, I think he may well have gone into hibernation. If his revolting backbenchers and lynchmob junior ministers are anything to go by, he will be out of a job by the end of May.

Political persuasion aside, I simply have more faith in Alex Salmond.

Also, the oil may fall into Reserved Matter, but what happens when the road transport system grinds to a halt? Last time I looked, that was a Devolved Matter.

Then we have the NHS. When the Ambulances run out of petrol. When the National Grid goes down and the hospital generators run out of fuel, what then? Hosptials too are a Devolved Matter.

Same with the car ferries. When CalMac, Western, Pentland and Northlink run out of bunkers what happens?

Think the thing through? This mess concerns everyone.
51

foulkes had my name removed'the t0sser',

20/04/2008 10:59:43
33#
No Alex Salmond is pro Scottish unlike you!!!!

and thanks for getting my comment removed hit a nerve?
coward!!!
52

kimba,

20/04/2008 11:05:01
52.point one-I'm English
point two-I didn't get your post removed,you did that yourself by being so rude.
53

NBJT,

North Berwick 20/04/2008 11:12:52
Unfortunately Mr Salmond can do very little about this possible strike!!!

However, I fully expect the English run media to start blaming him. If he sneezes the English controlled press, including the Scotsman EEN hwill highlight it as a negative!!!

Thank goodness the scots can think for themselves and, as confirmed by recent polls, are increasingly backing Mr Salmond and his push to start making decisions for ourselves.

On the subject of polls why did the Scotsman not publish the results of their recent one on independence? I think they came out with a lame excuse when in reality I know that they ditched publishing the results because the figures showed a clear majority in favour of Independence. Democracy, free press...dont make me laugh!!!!!
54

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 20/04/2008 11:13:26
Make Scotland independent ASAP!
55

kimba,

20/04/2008 11:16:49
55.Why would a welshman say that,does it make a difference to you!
56

kimba,

20/04/2008 11:22:05
54.It won't be the English press that kick off,but you can bet your life salmond will start whinging to westminster.
57

It's me!,

20/04/2008 11:25:37
Somehow suspect the close down is an over reaction by the employer to point all blame on the union. Also suspect this could come back and bite the employer on the bum.
58

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/04/2008 11:37:14
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Refinery-strike-39could-spark-major.3996094.jp

Here is the report from the 18th. It is all about a financial dispute between Unite and Ineos. Politics don't come into it.
59

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/04/2008 11:40:26
58, It's me!, the plant can't operate without the health and safety supervision provided by the Unite members. If they strike, the plant cannot operate.

The shutting down and starting up procedures take about a month.
60

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow. 20/04/2008 11:44:29
At least the Greens will be pleased!!
61

R. Maclean,

cumbernauld 20/04/2008 11:49:05
I trust if the strike goes ahead that the Scottish Government will have plans to ensure that transport and food suppliers get priority along with essential sevices. The company should realise that they have a responsability to the community--are they foreign owned?
62

The Strategist,

20/04/2008 12:11:33
#62

Not entirely true.. The health and safety supervision is a regulatory requirement but it doesn't physically stop the plant operating.
63

Jaime,

FALKIRK 20/04/2008 12:15:38
Anyone here remember when the Grangemouth refinery had an explosion several years ago in which a radio-isotope was lost and never recovered? The politicians then threatened to bring draconian and punitive measures to bear as punishment. Well, the owners then said they would simply up sticks and move the whole operation to their other EXISTING plants in Australia - and you bet they would have done it too - think Globalisation !! So, who here thinks that couldn't happen again? But at least the ex-Ineos workers would be able to sleep peacefully in their Grangemouth beds at night without the noisy and smelly night-time flare-offs that the rest of us in the area have to suffer in support of their non-contributory pensions. Happy days. Bring it on.
64

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 20/04/2008 12:31:58
#13

You sure you're not really called "BACK NOT FORWARD?"

....................
65

Jaime,

FALKIRK 20/04/2008 13:18:00
Did anyone read my post at 67? Well, I just extracted this comment from a "note to editors" on Ineos' website -
7. INEOS has a history of good industrial relations at 75 of its 76 facilities throughout the world. The company is committed to securing growth and a sustainable long-term future for each of its manufacturing sites. To achieve this at Grangemouth, over £750m of investment is necessary in the facility over the next five years. Failure to modernise and reform the pension plan arrangements will put this investment at risk and lead to a review of the site’s current operations.
SOUND FAMILIAR?????????
66

Angus Ogg,

20/04/2008 13:46:57
A little off topic, but one of the above posters reminds me of that nutty lady from the Tyne that used to post on the Scotsman Boards.

She was going to marry a Scotsman. She was a great bundle of fun.

Can anyone remember her name ?

I miss her.
67

Anus (the SNP campaigner),

20/04/2008 13:59:33
How can Scotland who owns all the world's oil have a scare of a shortage. Is this Brown's precious dividend.

LieBore is as dead as the Union.
68

Anus (the SNP campaigner),

20/04/2008 14:39:44
73

Agreed. Brown is a window licker. Scotland can aspire to more though because we do not lick windows or invade countries to kill people. Trident is bad too.

Indipindince NOW!!
69

Charles MN,

20/04/2008 14:57:03
#67

That was in 1987. The world is a different place these days. We now have a worldwide shortage of refining capacity, we also have a worldwide shortage of tankers due to the phasing out of of single hull vessels.

Ineos operates by buying underperforming plants from petro-chemical and oil companies and turning them around. It will look closely at all costs and try and reduce them. Personel costs are no different.

Ineos would be daft to persue this to the point of a strike as the money saved is trivial ( a back of a fag packet calculation suggests less than £2M a year or a days profit).
70

Hickory,

US 20/04/2008 15:40:34
Aye, while ye are awalkin' to labor, send a thank you note to Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and George Soros. They own the largest block of petrol reserves in the world. Their aholdin' it for a rainy day and it looks abit like no rain for a while...y'know. Speakin' of refinin' capacity, who owns the majority of refinin' facilities in Nigeria... our fair boy mr. Gates. E' also does a lot of carbon black makin' too. Did ye know mr. Soros is a very good customer of large tankers? Our mr. Buffet likes the crude so much, that e' keeps it in volume. For a rainy day ye know. Aye the trio make a fine lot. Got good shoes have ye? Maybe mr. Gore's tree huggers will walk with ye...NOT!
71

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 20/04/2008 16:14:29
Typical bloody mindedness of the Trade Unions. No point blaming Alec or Wendy. What we need is to abolish Scottish parliament and unite the country under a strong anti-union Thatcher type PM. Cameron comes to mind.So called Working Class are getting uppity again and need reminding of the Miners strikes of the 80s and the very happy outcome - almost strike free 90s.
72

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 20/04/2008 16:37:21
Well I've just been out and filled up my car. The queues were backed up on the street, so it would appear many people had the same idea. With some scaling back a tankful could last me a month.
73

Ray Colbert,

El Paso, Texas 20/04/2008 18:40:52
As the prices continue to climb, there as
here in the Colonies, it will get worse.
I remember when living in the Edinburgh
area in the early 60's, where only the very
well to do had automobiles, less well had
motorcycles- with sidecars for families.
At that time the public transport - buses -
was very good and covered most of the area.
Long trips were on the train or overland
buses. Increase the number of doubledeckers
and that should help. No traffic wardens,
no parking fines or having to look for a
parking space near home.
74

Sambo,

20/04/2008 19:03:15
#40 McX
It's a good idea to temporarily remove the fuel tax. It won't help with the Grangemouth situation but will put cash into public purse and boost the economy. Removing 60p from a liter of petroleum/diesel will reduce the cost of food and other commodities. The US is considering abolishing/suspending it's 9p per gallon fuel tax.
What happens if the distillers have no fuel to deliver alcohol?
75

Sambo,

The deep south 20/04/2008 19:06:50
#80 Ray,
We used to call SCAT.. Shuffling Chicano's around town.
76

Bird of Prey, Will watch what i say.,

20/04/2008 19:16:37
#82 sambo

OH good lord, are you into SCAT ? Poo you minger.Perver t
77

Sambo,

The deep south 20/04/2008 19:21:34
#83
SCAT is the acronym for Sun City Area Transit in El Paso Tx. Don't know what you're on about?
78

Angus Ogg,

20/04/2008 19:22:06
#71

Hi Spook,

LoL yes it is a little late for to be posting on the same days thread :@)

Have you still not cracked that code yet? C'mon Spook, that's the whole point of spooks - to crack special codes ??? I bet you a bottle of whisky you can't beat me to the first post in tomorrow's Scotsman (Monday 21st April). Any thread. Any whisky !

Thanks for remembering it was Mixi. I just drove down from the Highlands, and was racking my brains for half the journey trying to remember the name. Whatever happened to her? Did she transmogrify into a Kimba, or did she flounce off in a huff never to be heard of again? I seem to recall she got a bit upset when someone faked her, and she didn't see the humour in her fakey being called Maxipad.

Right, I'm off to win a bottle of whisky :@)
79

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/04/2008 19:53:03
77 - a tory
80

Sambo,

The deep south 20/04/2008 19:57:18
I remember August 2000. I was over touring and couldn't find petrol. If the Grangemouth plant shuts down say in June it would devastate the tourist industry.
81

Rod,

Champfleurie Estate 20/04/2008 20:10:55
A nice cup of tea and trams running in Edinburgh and everything will be tikedy boo.
82

Fifi la Bonbon,

20/04/2008 20:11:22
According to BBC News the UK holds 70 days of fuel in reserve which will be sufficient to cover the month that Ineos expects Grangemouth to be out of action. The UK has nine oil refineries, with Grangemouth providing about 10% of the total refinery capacity.

People should put their energies into supporting the Unite members defending their pensions, especially since the Union has got 97% support.
83

Gone Walkabout,

Escaped 20/04/2008 20:11:46
Every cloud has a toxic lining, especially down Grangemouth way. We should be glad these events have unfolded in a controlled manner and not by way of disaster that would take years to recover from. What kind of idiot Government allows a situation to develop where the loss on one refining facility will cripple a whole country? A pretty flippin’ bad one that’s what.

There is no hiding from the truth – our country is so badly run that if some kind of event was to put Grangemouth out of action the entire country would grind to a halt. That is as criminal as it is insane.

This is a governance outrage and an indication of how badly London runs things in general. What else is out there we don’t know about? We are already in line to be nuked first since we’re looking after ‘our’ Trident subs, if one of them goes up we won’t need central heating I suppose.

Meanwhile I am sure the Olympics will be spectacular. Like the dome or the eye or the Jubilee line or that MI5 monstrosity and all the other freeloading money grubbing ‘investment’ we have been paying our British share for.

But energy security for Scotland? You’re ‘avin a larf Jock oo yoo fink yoo are? Ukraine?

It would seem so.
84

Sambo,

The deep south 20/04/2008 20:33:24
#91 I agree.
It is sickening when an entire country can be crippled by a two day + strike action. 2000 should have been a wake up call.
85

Phil C,

20/04/2008 20:41:10
Reading this thread I do feel the Assionists are losing the plot here. It shouldn't be a funny thread but these increasingly desperate and nutty types are blaming St Alex for this!!! Self-defeating, small minded losers!
86

Trade-wind,

USA 20/04/2008 20:54:19
Workers need to be able to live. They do a dangerious job everyday and should go into retirement at least comfortable. The company deserves to be able to do business and make a profit which is the only reason to be a business. Yet people's lives are affected by both's needs. The government exists only to protect and serve the citizen so fine both parties each day the strike is on. Tax the oil company in good times to buy gas for reserves at times like this. Make the union pay a percentage of the companies tax and include it in the money used for purchace of gas supplies. Distribute ration books and when this kind of thing is about to happen put all gasoline on ration to prevent hording. Next start making citizens conservation aware by charging for over use of horsepower. BUT, quit complaining unless your willing to do something about it the day after the strike ends. Don't just forget it until the next time a crisis come up. Throw out the polititians and run for office yourselves. I'm sure from the sounds of it you all could do a better job.
87

Phil C,

20/04/2008 21:01:57
#90 Fifi

Pensions as they exist are indefensible, unless you are the most selfish of trade unionists. Fair pensions for all should be the cry- not fair pension for ME!!!
88

Ineos employee,

Grangemouth 20/04/2008 21:19:48
Ok just want to clarify a few things from an employees perspective and try to convey a bit of truth as opposed to speculation to this forum.
post 38 presents the most revelant questions which I will anwser,
but firstly I would like to state that the SNP and even westminster are unable to do much in relation to this situation...the dispute is between a private company and the employees of ineos grangemouth.

Right so what is the pension norm in the industry? you would be correct in saying alot of oil companies are contributary, however in comparrison to ineos their salary is substantially more. In the past it has always been the companies bargaining point to pay us less by saying, "We still offer a non-contributary pension scheme." At the moment our overall package-pay, pensions, bonus ect is competitive with the rest of the industry and to remove the non-contributary scheme would no longer make the companys remuneration package for employees competitive.
The reason no other oil companies are being affected is because no other company has the odasity to degrade something as sensitive as the pensions.
In terms or fuel shortages and 'chaos' in the country well that is only induced by panic buying and media speculation however I am confident the country will and has supplies to cope just fine with this situation.
As for the companys press realeases and statements from gordon grant and tom crotty - lies - we know this because their lips are moving! These people are like politions and I would not believe a word the say.

To conclude, the unuion are not fighting for a pay-rise or better penssions, no, they simply want to keep what they have. A simple analogy would be; if someone comes up to you in the street and asks for your wallet, do you negotiate for the contents or point blank refuse? This company is owned by a man with a personal fortune of 3.5 BILLION, the 10th richest man in the U.K and it appears he gets kicks from stealing pensions from the working
89

Richardinho,

20/04/2008 21:20:17
I doubt this will actually lead to petrol becoming unavailable. Worst case scenario we'll simply get it from some refinery down South. Of course it's quite likely that we'll have to pay more for it.

Just to be certain though I did fill up my car this morning!
90

Ineos employee,

20/04/2008 21:22:59
CONTINUED......

class? Personally, at 21 years old and just finished my apprenticeship I am a long way from collecting my pension however if the company wins this dispute you can make no mistake about it that they will be back for more-cutting our terms and conditions bit by bit. Again us employees only want to keep what we have and remain competitive within the industry.
91

Sambo,

The deep south 20/04/2008 21:24:28
#96
So you would put the poor people of Scotland in jeopardy?
92

Ineos employee,

20/04/2008 21:31:53
#99
In what way would strike action do that?

The country has enough reserves to cope. the only people losing out are the rich corperate fat-cats because of the loss of production. not to forget the employees do not get paid for the time they are on strike.
93

Fifi la Bonbon,

20/04/2008 21:31:56
According to BBC News the UK holds 70 days of fuel in reserve which will be sufficient to cover the month that Ineos expects Grangemouth to be out of action. The UK has nine oil refineries, with Grangemouth providing about 10% of the total refinery capacity.

People should put their energies into supporting the Unite members defending their pensions, especially since the Union has got 97% support.
94

Fifi la Bonbon,

20/04/2008 21:34:27
It didn't take much effort to find out that here are plenty of reserves. Why didn't the Scotland on Sunday report this? Cos it would make a less dramatic headline and take focus away from the crimes of the employer.
95

Phil C,

20/04/2008 21:43:10
#90 & 101 F F F F F F F fifi, that's a terrible stut ttt ttter you've g g g g ot......or is it just an echo?
96

Fifi la Bonbon,

20/04/2008 21:55:05
You mean "According to BBC News the UK holds 70 days of fuel in reserve which will be sufficient to cover the month that Ineos expects Grangemouth to be out of action. The UK has nine oil refineries, with Grangemouth providing about 10% of the total refinery capacity..." don't you, Phil C?

Yes, I had inadvertently put that in twice. It's true, though.
97

Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 20/04/2008 21:55:56
#101 & #102
The Union may well have 97% support. Frankly, I care as much about the Union as it cares about me. Accordingly, I have conducted a poll with myself, and have arrived at 0% support for strike action. I could extend the poll to any number of my acquaintances, and the same big fat zero percentage would result.
98

Grangemouth Lad,

Grangemouth 20/04/2008 21:59:29
#96 Us guys over the fence are 100% behind your stance, be sure about that, looks like we will be in a similar position in the coming weeks, good luck.....
99

Jackie Priest,

20/04/2008 22:02:59
#96, 98 and 100,

Fantastic post and excellent insight into the reality of the situation.

I think you'll find that the majority of people in Scotand will be right behind you, as long as your point of view gets fair representation via the media, which might not be the case.

Let's hope it does, and good luck with the stance you're taking.
100

Itchy,

20/04/2008 22:19:24
#94 which part of the Soviet Union are you from?

I'm a contractor at Ineos and i'm shyting it, to be honest.

I hope this is resolved soon.
101

Ineos employee,

20/04/2008 22:23:43
#105
ok so u are not in favour of strike action, fair enough.. the result of the action will not affect you in the slightest so from a selfish point of view why should you be behind the strike?
From the employees point of view to have the public behind us is only an added bonus and if the public do not give support or the union is portrayed in a bad light in the media then you can be rest-assured that this will have no bearing on the outcome....at the end of the day do the general public pay our wages, feed our families or pay our mortgage? Exactly. support from the public and media would be appreciated but is by no means needed.
#106
thankyou and you have the same support back, we need to show these thieves that this simply cannot happen, to pensions or anything else.
102

Jackie Priest,

Swizzerlan 20/04/2008 23:17:21
Bicylces - f**king Bicylces

They're the cause of my rash. Some f**ker's been putting swarfega on my saddle
103

Jackie Priest,

20/04/2008 23:57:23
The guy directly above is a fake, posting under my username.

He or it should be careful when doing things like that, because maybe I have ways and means of finding out his IP address and finding out who the fckuer is.

104

truthsleuth,

A more thoughtful motorist 21/04/2008 01:43:53
AS it is measures like this that are the only ones that stand a chance of cutting the ubelical cord between petrol heads and their exhaust pies this is probably the best news the planet has heard for a century
What are they all whingein about high oil prices are caused by demand exceeding supply. Now the arabs control supply and motorists control demand ergo Arabs aint gonna play ball so motorists have got to cut demand.
Problem is the bio fools (non de plume for petrol heads) know a thing or two about combustion and hot gases so with the enormous amount of gas and hot air above there should be no problem powering motor cars.
If you have any trouble getting petrol connect your mouth to the exhaust pipe and blow.