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Scotland over a barrel



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Published Date: 27 April 2008
THE Grangemouth oil crisis escalated dramatically last night after workers refused to unload a tanker carrying 120,000 tonnes of fuel destined for forecourts.
Unions claimed the Astro Arcturus, berthed in the Forth, was attempting to break the strike and not, as agreed with refinery owner Ineos, delivering supplies to the emergency services.

Although several tankers have unloaded in recent days, continued shipments from the Netherlands and Sweden are crucial to keeping Scotland moving in the weeks ahead.

Last night, the Scottish Government revealed that seven more tankers, carrying a further 65,000 tonnes of fuel, were expected in the Firth of Forth this week, but union officials set a collision course by saying there was no agreement to unload them.

The extra cost of shipping fuel across the North Sea is likely to be passed directly to motorists and could mean prices hit £1.50 a litre during the dispute, it was claimed last night.

Meanwhile, the strike is set to cause serious economic damage if, as expected, the BP Forties pipeline is shut early this morning, cutting off £50m a day in oil company revenue and depriving the Treasury of £30m a day in tax.

But despite the mounting crisis, motorists appeared to be holding their nerve yesterday as most garages reported they still had stocks of fuel and there was little sign of the panic buying seen towards the end of last week, despite fuel prices hitting £1.23p-a-litre for unleaded in Shetland.

Some shortages were, however, reported yesterday in the north-west and north-east of Scotland. The political row over the dispute was also escalating last night. Prime Minister Gordon Brown came under pressure from political opponents to intervene, and was accused of failing to realise the seriousness of the crisis.

The oil and gas industry has also urged the Government to intervene. Chief executive of Oil & Gas UK, Malcolm Webb, said: "We appeal to the Government to intervene urgently with Unite and Ineos to stop the industrial action at Grangemouth from spilling over and hitting offshore production. This is now affecting some 80 companies and their operations which are in no way connected to or involved in this dispute."

The Grangemouth row centres on planned changes to pension plans for the plant's workforce and has led to staff beginning a 48-hour strike this morning. Last night, officials at Unite, the union representing the employees, said they could not rule out further action. Spokesman Pat Rafferty said: "We will evaluate the situation after the strike."

The refusal to unload the Greek-registered Astro Arcturus came after the vessel docked at Hound Point near Grangemouth yesterday.

Unite had agreed to allow a 'skeleton staff' on to the jetty where it was moored, but had not reached agreement with the company over unloading its cargo. As a result, the cargo was last night still on board.

A spokesman said: "We have pleaded with them to provide the cover needed to offload those cargoes. There is an agreement for providing fuel for key workers and emergency services. The point is around offloading for other uses. We are bringing in

as many (tankers] as we can from all over Europe."

The new convoys may also face similar problems in offloading their shipments from Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Gothenburg. A union spokesman said that its members would not unload any vessels that docked at or near Grangemouth.

He said: "Our members will make the jetties safe and that's it. We will unload only to supply island areas and emergency services."

On an average day, Scotland consumes about 6,000 tonnes of diesel, so these additional imports represent nearly 10 days of normal supply, ministers said.

First Minister Alex Salmond said:

"From across Europe, unprecedented supplies of additional fuel are arriving in and heading for the Forth over the coming days to make up for the loss of production at Grangemouth.

"That's good news for the country and is tangible evidence of the advice we have had for some days from the industry – that we will have ample fuel supplies to see Scotland through this dispute and well into May."

Ineos has tried to circumvent the Grangemouth refinery strike by importing fuel – "millions of dollars' worth a day", according to industry insiders – from the continent.

But as it has been forced to pay 20% extra for the cargo, it is virtually certain that the hike will be passed on to motorists.

According to an industry insider, Ineos is paying $1,108 per ton of refined fuel, compared with the normal rate of crude, which last week was $819. Instead of selling its own fuel to wholesalers at around 32p-a-litre, Ineos is currently having to spend 50p-a-litre on foreign fuel and that means the 17p price difference will invariably get picked up by the consumer, meaning a potential £1.50p for a litre of diesel.

He said: "They are spending literally millions of dollars a day buying fuel from around the world to bring into the UK to keep the country running."

Petrol and diesel prices showed wide variations across Scotland yesterday as the impact of the fuel strike continued to bite.

Glasgow appeared to be the most expensive city in which to buy a litre of either fuel, with motorists paying up to £1.19 a litre for unleaded petrol and £1.28 for diesel.

In Edinburgh, average prices were around the £1.11 mark, but were slightly cheaper in Aberdeen and Dundee. Glenrothes, in Fife, had the highest prices for diesel at £1.30 a litre.

Prices went up across the board by about 6p last week, also reflecting the record prices of oil on the international markets. However, analysts said they are expected to escalate further over the next few days as oil companies attempt to recoup the additional cost of importing oil to make up for shortages caused by the closure of the Forties pipeline.

Yesterday, panic buying of petrol appeared to ease from its height on Thursday and Friday as motorists had either stocked up or heeded Government warnings not to rush out to needlessly fill their tanks.

Although a few garages reported shortages, it was mainly due to a lack of tanker drivers to deliver fuel stocks to forecourts. As a result, some garages were still operating rationing systems.

But the overall picture from around the country was that shortages had eased. At the Morrisons petrol station on Ferry Road in Edinburgh, a spokeswoman said: "At times it has been very, very crowded with a lot of people waiting, but at other times there are no queues at all."

In Glasgow, the Government's assurances seemed to have paid off as it was business as normal at the pumps. There were shortages of diesel and petrol in places, but assistants said this was down to panic buying early last week.

In Dundee, forecourts appeared eerily quiet for a Saturday, with garage owners claiming any panic was over.


The full article contains 1170 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

26/04/2008 22:00:40
1. Well we followed the advice not to panic buy.

2. As a result two of our works vehicles have not been able to work through fuel shortage for 3 days now.

3. If this continues, two employees will be laid off.

4. Is this the result our "brothers & sisters" of the Unite union want ?

Solidarity my a r s e.

Highly militant and relatively im potent hard left wing union leaders have invaded a local dispute and riled up the workers to a fever point. This is a dispute manufactured by far left wing s cousers who want to build up some muscle for their failing union at any cost.

The cost is now for fellow workers to lose their jobs, and for a nation to become economically crippled.

All for prehistoric political dogma.

There is a balance in all things. Too far on the right with greedy employers is bad, and so too is too far on the left.

It is about time some politician of any political colour took a lead and sorted this appalling mess out.
2

bill2,

27/04/2008 00:24:40
This is just the beginning,
3

Trotskyite,

West Lothian 27/04/2008 00:30:12
Gentlemen of the Press, the Astro Acturus is a crude oil tanker and will not be carrying refined product to or from anywhere. Hound Point is the terminal from which Forties crude oil is exported and is owned and operated by BP. As such it is not within the scope of the dispute at the Ineos refinery up river. This story is sensationalist, inflammatory and factually inaccurate and not what I'd expect from your hitherto high quality newspaper. The refinery is still exporting fuel by road to keep forecourts supplied.
4

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 00:36:37
4 reporters and none of them can tell you that it was £1.20 per litre in Grangemouth of all places.

5

Hmm ...,

27/04/2008 00:40:02
... an effect of this fag-end government is that the far left sees the chance to stir up industrial relations - tough on the workers now on strike. But that's OK so long as the Trots have the chance to flex their muscles and see what damage they can do.

And what is the strike about? Future recruits' pensions. Get real, stop making yourselves pariahs and get back to work, you dummies!
6

Jock Tamson,

Putting reporters on the spot 27/04/2008 00:41:14
Hey, Scotsman stable reporters, get on your horses and go to the scene. Be on the spot for a change. Instead of being put on the spot.
7

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 00:48:34
I take it Ross Chemicals @ Grangemouth(Q8) is not affected by the Ineos/Unite dispute? Don't they unload from tankers anyway? That was the case when I worked on the new overhead gantries for filling the petrol tankers at the Forth side of the mollasses tanks about 15 years ago.
8

,

27/04/2008 00:49:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

,

27/04/2008 00:55:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 01:56:32
Its all becoming a, 'Conspiracy' in this Paper Anyhow!

Yesterday the article about paying £6.00 per Gallon completely disappeared after 3hours on being on here!

'WHY'

BTW, the Scotsman may think is deleted, but it is NOT as Google catches all!

Put,..£6 per Gallon Scotsman News, into Google, and see the article!

Yes the Secret Service, is now starting a 'Cover Up'!

As is this News Paper!
11

,

27/04/2008 02:09:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

claire voyant,

borders 27/04/2008 02:09:47
Jim Ratcliffe, the owner of Ineos bought the former ICI site at runcorn. He then demanded 300 million from the government, otherwise he would close the site. He got 50 million. I see a pattern developing. Hes already mentioned that the Grangemouth site needs 750 million spent on it. It doesn't take a genius to work out whats coming next. Someone had better explain it to messrs Salmond and Brown.
13

Charles MN,

27/04/2008 02:25:55
You are quite correct Claire this has nothing to do with pensions. So what is the ulterior motive? Every time you see a Ineos spokesman on TV they talk about investing £750m. This is all about getting Government grants to pay for updating the plant. Obviously the £380 million a year they make isn't enough.
14

Alan Reid,

NZ 27/04/2008 03:28:03
"Scotland over a barrel" For once a true headline. Although it's missing something, it should read Scotland tied into this Union is over a barrel!
15

W Smith,

Middle East 27/04/2008 04:04:24
Where is muscovy duck breeding Salmond?

This is his James Callaghan moment - "crisis, what crisis?".

Salmond is too left wing to condemn this strike and the party activist are on line already telling us that everything will be different after independence.

RUBBISH!

Salmond has always been a leftie and now the militant tendency in the SNP is coming to the surface.

If Scotland becomes independent within a year the STUC communists will want to govern the nation throught the back door.

Salmond is clearly not up to it and, in fairness to our Alex, neither is Wendy Alexander.

So its up to the Tories to sort this out!

16

Shhh... you know who,

27/04/2008 05:18:02
This hoo-hah is the doing of an uncoordinated bunch of bored rabble-rousers and NOT, as some commentators have wrongly claimed, the start of the Summer of Discontent. That will come later, just as soon as the EU orders it. Its objective will be to undermine and discredit national government(s), so as to encourage a disillusioned electorate to assume that things could only get better under... the EU regime.

Do not make the naive mistake of assuming that meaningful political power resides anywhere in the UK these days. It doesn't.
17

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 05:29:04
W Smith: It's Mrs Salmond who breeds the ducks d1ckhead, try and keep up.

What gets me is all this money coming from Scotlands North sea oil. And yet for years the UK goverment tried to keep a lid on this.

The UK government has known for more than 30 years that Scotland does support itself financially.

For example, Professor Gavin McCrone, Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, advised the UK government in 1975 of the truth about Scotland’s finances. As Chief Economic Adviser to the Secretary of State for Scotland, he prepared a report, “The Economics of Nationalism Re-examined”. His report advised the UK government that an independent Scotland would have a massive budget surplus. It was promptly classified "Secret" and suppressed. It came to light only in 2005, when the UK government was forced by law to release it.

The UK government’s ‘Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland (GERS) report provides another example of the UK government’s duplicity. This was finally exposed by forensic accountant Niall Aslen's analysis of the 2005 GERS report. The analysis (available at http://tinyurl.com/y

p7osx) was based entirely on the UK government’s own figures, with one exception for which UK government figures were not available. Mr Aslen documented the sources of all the figures.

Mr Aslen's analysis exposed the UK government’s egregious misallocation – to Scotland’s serious disadvantage – of revenues (not just oil revenues) and costs. If a private firm cooked its books half as seriously as the UK government's GERS report, its directors would be in jail.

Mr Aslen's analysis convincingly demolished the assertions that Scotland was being subsidised by the rest of the UK. But the British press ignored or suppressed it. Luckily, enough people saw it on the internet before the 2007 election to discredit Labour’s claims that Scotland was running a £11.2-billion deficit. Mr Aslen’s analysis showed that Scotland actually had a £9.6-billion surplu
18

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 05:30:48
So W Smith, since your the expert on Scottish matters give us the low down on that last post.
19

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 27/04/2008 06:26:43
And fat Alex fiddles while Scotland burns.
20

M Perth Oz,

WA 27/04/2008 06:41:25
#12 You pathetic green eyed cretin, if your that jealous get off your fat toosh and do something about it.

The refinery workers are a highly skilled and sought after workforce, trust me on this I now work in oil and gas in WA, the INEOS workforce are highly regarded all over the world, have you noticed that large intenational oil company's advertise in the Falkirk Herald ?.

They are well payed, but it is the industry standard, without the money the complex brings in and distributed around the central region, especially Falkirk, the area would rapidly go down hill.
Ineos have done nothing but lie and break promises since they bought the facility.This generation of workers have to look out for the next lot.

Maybe it was time all you whingin yellowbellys on this site should start standing up to your employers,maybe then you'd get better conditions,pay and pensions.

Good on you the Ineos employees, the whole of Scotland should be behind you, and follow your lead.
21

Cretan,

Some where in Greece 27/04/2008 07:12:52
Roll on independance
22

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 07:29:19
22 Cretan-"Roll on Independence" Eh?
Wrong forum shurely?
23

1745,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:34:05
Is this somewhat reminiscent of the Miners strike? Maybe Broon should ask Maggie's advice ?
24

happy english,

London 27/04/2008 07:40:28
A bunch of greedy workers who are going to bring Scotlands economy down, where is your Mr Salmond who you think is so great very quiet at the moment is'nt he, if things get to bad it will be England that will have to bail you out supplying you with the fuel that you will need and the millions of pounds lost every day a huge amount will have to come from the English. Marching with there silly flags they are making Scotland look like a laughing stock.
25

jaw,

edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:50:13
To M Perth oz, I agree in some of what you say, people should be behind them, but if No 12 is correct that they get between £40,000 and £60,000 a year, surely a final salary pension for them is silly. OK they are fighting for future people coming in, haven't all companies now had to rethink pensions.
Look at the local goverment, if they haven't money to pay pensions they have to put the council tax up, it's just a knock on effect all over, so come on, get with the plan.
26

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:54:39
This is unfortunately a reserved matter and the Scottish Government have no power to do anything. So far their main contribution was the offer of assistance from the head of the Faculty of Actuaries in Scotland. Why this was refused has not been made clear as yet.
Gordon Brown has as usual gone to ground and has been issuing statements about the election in Zimbabwe, a great help to those sitting in forecourt queues in the coming weeks. His numerous ministers appear on TV and seem to be powerless to do anything except maybe make the situation worse by their "Corporal Jones" attitude which is encouraging panic buying.
27

steve 1511,

aberdeen 27/04/2008 07:55:14
well happy english,since it is the responsibility of the british government at westminister to maintain fuel supplies and NOT the scottish parliaments,how will the english be bailing out british citizens ,it is a british government that will supply fuel to scotland and its british citizens not an english government you do not have an english government, like most enlishmen you have a big gob and a small brain that does not have a clue what is going on in scotland,
28

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:57:29
#27. Agree. All companies rethinking unsustainable pensions and mostly employees inderstand this and are now so greedy as these people.

Emotive 'spin' words like 'protecting future generations rights' are total bo11ox.

The unions arrogance here is staggering, bring a country to this so much self interest. No wonder there is no symathy apart from the old far left nutters and those with self interest.

This from an ex shop steward too!
29

Sonare,

27/04/2008 07:58:57
I reckon that the likely difference in income to an employee earning £50,000 currently in a Final Salary Scheme; compared to a future employee seeking to match any current benefits through a proposed Money Purchase Scheme; will be a reduction of approx. £40 per week in spendable income. For standard rate taxpayers just below the higher rate tax band, the net loss will be similar.

This means many members joining a new scheme will have to plan for some £40 a week outlay coming from their own resources should they wish to improve on, or have similar pension benefits to those that exist through final salary.

As most of the folk whose cause we are supporting haven't been born yet, it helps to remember that they may accept or decline any employers future employment conditions, as compared to other opportunities on offer at the time.
30

happy english,

London 27/04/2008 08:00:20
#28 It is your own people that are holding Scotland to Ransom, stop blaming everyone else, you are in danger of becoming a laughing stock, already English refineries are producing more fuel to get to Scotland, the Scottish claim they want there own independence, how can you when you cannot even cope with a fuel strike, it is a joke.
31

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 27/04/2008 08:01:28
Conspiracy theorists reckon the company wants this strike as it puts pressure on the government to fund renovation work.

This is plausible, but does anyone out there have supporting evidence?
32

happy english,

London 27/04/2008 08:04:51
#29 Typical British when things get bad and Scottish when things are good. Get a grip BOY.
33

Argyll on line,

Argyll 27/04/2008 08:09:52
Time to get tough with those greedy bustarts.
34

puskas,

East kilbride 27/04/2008 08:13:25
Brown has been an expert in deceiving pension fund holders for 10 years or since he made his first budget..
Kept secret until a fortnight before the Holyrood elections last year ..
Ineos have a previous close history with this NuLiebour government and nothing would surprise me if manipulation between both to cause this dispute has taken place.
This Westminster government full of parasites would after all as we know stop at nothing to try to win support from an electorate that are about to send them into oblivion....
A nice manipulated dispute and attempting to appear strong will not win them votes next week.
Or in Scotland in the future. Liebour have been found out once to often during their long spell in government.

Nothing more is worth fighting for than a pension fund that all employees have been happy with.. And why not for future new starts .

Ineos are making millions / billions and any re-investment can be dealt with at no expense from capitulation of the work force...

I and many others have been screwed in the past by companies and none more so than Brown in his first budget..
Lets say I'm suspicious of all parties in this dispute.
The shop floor workers are quite possibly being used as pawns in a despicable political game.
35

School Inspector,

27/04/2008 08:13:35
Tell those lazy sods to get back to work.
36

School Inspector,

27/04/2008 08:14:10
Tell those lazy sods to get back to work - or ask the Poles / Lithuanians to step in and run the country.
37

jacabite view,

27/04/2008 08:19:42
This strike is good news.

Rotterdam oil processes are looking at increased processing orders, employment experts are ready to sign 'post-employment' training schemes and the SNP are ready to blame the labour party. I should think the owners of the plant are also counting the cash from facility sales and why not, oil prices are rich.

Its cash out time for managers and union leaders.

Stikes like this always create money for some one.
38

Newt,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 08:20:18
It's been interesting to hear the teachers in England being villified by the public for asking for a pay rise in line with inflation when they earn £34,000 or less (£34k is top of the payscale) and have the nations future in their hands while this is the first time I've heard negative comments about workers on an average of £40k striking over ther removal of a NON-CONTRIBUTARY pension (anyone else got one of those?) for folk not even working yet. Yes, teachers get good holidays, but they don't just work 9-3 - more like 8-6 in most cases I know, plus a large proportion of their weekends and holidays - and there's no pay for the overtime and little or no sympathy or recompense for the stresses suffered in many schools (physical and verbal abuse from children & parents alike). There is an ignorance all round about what other people's jobs involve and a over-readiness assume - we've all been to school so we THINK we know what teachers do, though few other professions suffer this assumption from the public. A bit off topic, possibly, but it's interesting to see the differences cast into light by these two strikes.
39

Non!!,

East Britain 27/04/2008 08:31:07
What do you bet the "workers" will turn up for work when the two day strike is over, the plant will be shut and the pipeline too. They won't be able / willing to perform their normal duties or any tasks of which they do not approve, but they'll want to be paid just the same."It's their 'uman rights ennit." How would Russia, the home of communism and solidarity, deal with this mess d'ye think.
40

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 27/04/2008 08:38:05
From what I understand, the company will not offer final salary linked pensions to future employees, and the Trot/Marxist dinosaurs have decided they will decide what is paid to whoever, not the employer.
Sounds like the old commies are still around, and able to manipulate/intimidate, as they liked to in times past.
I for one hope Ineos take them on.
41

Alan Reid,

NZ 27/04/2008 08:51:21
20 Patrick O'Reilly, What has Mr Salmond go to do with it you pr!ck. This is the responsibility of the british government.
If you half wits don't want to bail us out, which you wrongly claim to do, then why don't you vote for independance?
42

Mikey,

27/04/2008 08:53:33
I know this question will be anathems to all the union jocks on this rag, but since energy is 'reserved,' what is London doing to halt the crisis?

Do you think that if the refinery in question had been on the Isle of Grain that it would have gone this far?

Some 'honest' union jocks will attempt to answer the questions while the rest of the brain dead unionist weirdos will probably just vilify me for asking!
43

,

27/04/2008 08:55:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

gus1940,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 08:55:32
Even if the tanker was carrying refined products does anybody other than idiot SoS journalists imagine that they would be fit to be put in car petrol tanks after having been pumped through pipelines that have been used to carry crude oil for 20 odd years.
45

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 08:59:54
44 Mikey-one could also ask-what would Holyrood do if energy was NOT reserved? It would be nice to debate an issue such as this without bringing the "Eternal Conflict" into everything. If Scotland were Independent its politicians would have their successes and failures like everyone else.Independence and Alex are not a panacea for everything!
46

mrsbruce,

Livingston 27/04/2008 09:05:08
In reply to message 32.

You're not quite grasping it are you.

The British government has the control of this situation (allegedly).

The British government are the one's who have to sort it out.

No-one else apart from the employer and the union can legally do that.

All the Scottish government can do is suggest everyone talk. The power still lies with the British government.

Is that clear enough for you?
47

puskas,

East kilbride 27/04/2008 09:06:41
Westminster has a dirty hand in this dispute.
48

mrsbruce,

Livingston 27/04/2008 09:10:37
In reply to message 47.

I agree, it would be good to debate that point properly, but almost impossible without the knives coming out.

I also agree with your last sentence, all governments balls up. I once heard a quote from an American General which I believe applies to governments too, "Winning a war is based on who makes the least mistakes". Paraphrased of course.
49

jdships,

27/04/2008 09:16:04
Intersting thought over the past year that a pattern is emerging .
If the political news is good it is all down to the "Scottish Government"
If the political news is bad it is all down to the "British Government"
As a "don't know" voter who do I believe because I don't trust Salmond or Brown - ah michty me whit dae ah dae ?
50

Big Smoke,

27/04/2008 09:25:31
I've heard that the union rep had a great deal put in front of him from bosses and hid it from the workers, story goes is that he views a great career in unite and this is a great way to make a name for himself.

My opinion though, the workers are greedy s**ts, good paid job and they want to save the pension for future workers, p*ss off!
51

happy english,

London 27/04/2008 09:25:54
#45 You can call me what you want, How on earth will Scotland be able to cope as an Independent country alredy fuel is being brought in from Europe, the English are producing more fuel to keep the flow going, this is going to cost the English, Welsh and Irish nations millions of pound to keep those Greedy men out of work, and even if you had the oil that you claim is yours it would not be enough to keep going. This strike is making Scotland look weak and your foolish if you think it will not. Mr Salmond is in hiding, surely as Minister for Scotland he should be out there but where is he, you cannot keep blaming London, this is the makings of Scottish Workers Greedy one,s that do not care about there country and there people only in there self greed.
52

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:29:15
44 ...Well as the Government know that there is enough fuel in store to cope with this and it is the Motorists who are Panicking .We Pedestrians are Chilled about it ..It is just another lot of Greedy B`s wanting a bigger share of the Rip Off Pot ....I wonder how many of the Panic Merchants ( Car Drivers ) in this are are coping with the duplicity of being "Eco Friendly" and Petrol Hungry at the same time ..another thing there is a lesson here.. The next time you hear the Comment about " They are only after the Oil" about whichever Government ...Look at the State of the Motorists over this ..Total Panic Merchants ..did they say ...I`ll just use Public Transport for a couple of days till this blows over ...No!! they all starting freaking out and burning up the fuel they had looking for more ..So ...Just Imagine if all the Oil dried up what a sorry state we all would be in ...The Oil Junkies couldnt handle it ...
53

carrottop,

Dumfries 27/04/2008 09:32:10
Unions are trying to go back to the 'good old days'.
Next to nobody other than the lefty brigade, who think everyone owes them a living, want this. I hope the Grangemouth mob are not allowed back to work until the system is up and running again as they are the cause of the down time. DO NOT pay them to sit on their backsides and smirk while the pipelines are made operational again.
Another great blunder by the socialists and a few more points in the SNP bag.
54

Willie,

27/04/2008 09:36:06
Scotland on Sunday should be ashamed of itself!!
Article is another crude attempt to get the Scottish Public to panic. Typical Tory Rag!!
Read the comments of #3
Hound Point doesn't have an import pipe line so how are they going to get the petrol ashore. Its an Export Facility.
Then theres the bilge about £1.50 a litre.
Every hour of every day petrol tankers are at sea around the UK and Europe delivering product to ports everywhere. Buying on the spot market doesn't increase the price to the degree claimed.
Its sad that a once great newspaper is now so much c***.
Mays you think if their preferred party get back into power what will happen then?
55

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:39:37
51 ..Mrs " Now you seeme ..Now you Dont " Salmond is on the Job ...Under the Guise of a Breeder of Ducks that is a cover up as she has been beavering away and is now in the final stages of her Duck Oil experiments although she is keeping the results close to her chest ...she will not reveal how many Ducks it takes to fill a can as she fears reprisals by the Animal Liberation Army ...but not too Worry ..Alec eats all the evidence...
56

Indyman,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:40:35
Surely the figures being released through this dispute dispell the myth of Scotland being subsidised by the rest of the UK.

If the closing down of the pipeline from the Fortes field is costing the UK Treasury £30million a day, just how much does Scotland subsidise the UK?
57

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:44:15
As Wee Eck was in the Socialist Republic Org the 79 Group it is his underlying beliefs we should worry more about.. after all he is a Marxist.....
58

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 09:49:23
50 mrsbruce-thanks for ur comment.
51jdships-"I dont trust Salmond or Brown" Well theres always the LibDems in Scotland-not much difference in their policies and those of the SNP and NuLabour if politically that is broadly your home.For Westminster theres wee Cameron-comes across as a bit smarmy but at least the Tories would be fresh faces in government and, come to think of it,theres not much to distinguish them from NuLabour,Libdems,and...oh I dont know jd!
59

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 10:07:58
24 - she'd tell him to close doon the Grangemooth refinery
60

Quo Vadis,

27/04/2008 10:09:18
If there was refined fuel being imported it could come into the Finnart Ocean terminal on Loch Long. There is a pipeline directly between the facility and Grangemouth. I used to work at the site from time to time. Originally it was used to berth VLCC (very large crude carriers) which offloaded to a huge tank farm and was then piped to Grangemouth. It waslater converted to allow refined product to be pumped from Grangemouth to small tankers which supplied the west coast and Ireland. I don't see a problem in reversing this unless the plant is Ineos owned. It used to be BP.
There are also quite a few MoD/NATO terminals at Ardyne,Gairloch etc which could be pressed into service in the Scottish national interest.
61

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 10:11:46
51 Boudica, Queen and Iceni tories - "now you see me - now you don't" Surely you must be referring to our PM Macavity Broon. Well known for hiding when the going gets tough.
Plus it was Broon's "Robert Maxwellesque" raid on company and private pensions when he was Chancellor which laid the ground for this dispute
62

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 10:15:05
42 Senator Joe lives !
63

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 10:40:25
Pilrig ....Tory me ? ...My boys will have a good laugh at the one ...as for GB ..some see him as a ditherer ..me I see him as cautious ...and everyone shouts Uturn when he does something the Public wants..I call it listening ... .I dont think he is has media savvy as TB or AS but that is a good thing as far as I am concerned " Celebrity Politics" is what got TB the Big E ..and the UK Public are seriously P off with that style of Politics .But some dont learn that lesson ...Salmond is another one who fails to take note of that ....and as for the SNP tactics ...very iffy ...the cash for honours fiasco ..that was down to an SNP MP reporting it wanting it researched back to 1925 .....and Scotland isnt very fond of "Grasses "...He didnt do it for the Good of the Country ..he did for his own and his parties agenda ...so that shows what stuff the SNP politicians are made off ....so notjhing to boast about there ...and you can bet there will be more SNP sh-t hitting the fan in the near future ...
64

R. Maclean,

cumbernauld 27/04/2008 10:46:28
The workers at Grangemouth are well paid and do not have to pay into their pension scheme which is almost unheard of now. The company are asking for a 1% contribution which is not unfair in the pension world of to-day. Most companies now do not allow new entrants to enter their existing schemes so they should wise up to the real world
65

Senga Jean,

Scotland 27/04/2008 10:49:59
Dearest Boudica...what these events remind Scotland of is the fact that we send huge revenues to our neighbour and beg for just a little in return. The generous Scots have the highest poverty levels along with the HIGHEST FUEL PRICES of not just oil producing nations but ALL nations. What Boudican spell have you cast on the Scots. When they wake they will be INDEPENDENT.
66

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 27/04/2008 10:50:45
To those who think otherwise an Export pipeline can be used for importing it just means closing and opening a few different valves although you dont need a pipeline to load road tankers they can be loaded direct from the ship,
also Ido know there are plans inthought of closing Grangemouth refinery and dismantling it and moving the refining section to immingham. eventially releasing the land for future developement if scotland wants to be carbon free it will have to give up all its oil products and move to greener stuff but I dont think the government is genuine on green issues. and no the mod terminals cannot be used we are closingthem anyway and moving all military south
67

Publius,

London 27/04/2008 10:58:19
#56 Willie

You write "Every hour of every day petrol tankers are at sea around the UK and Europe delivering product to ports everywhere. Buying on the spot market doesn't increase the price to the degree claimed."

Right on. And for what it's worth there is less diesel aboutthan unleaded. In recent times the the UK has been a net importer of refined diesel and a net exporter of refined unleaded. (The fashion for diesel cars came later to the UK than to the continent, because diesel doesn't have the same tax break here. So we never built enough diesel refining capacity.)

For Alex Salmond to claim that extra ships are coming from Europe and to imply that it is his doing is absurd pretentiousness. He does not say - cannot say -whether they are carrying crude, diesel, unleaded or aviation spirit. He can't say whether they would have come anyway. He can't say whether they are following a UK government plan to replenish stocks (a lot of plans were made after 2000). He can't say whether it is simply the market responding to shortages in one place and surpluses in another.
68

Publius,

London 27/04/2008 11:00:16
#68 Senga Jean

I thought that Norway had higher petrol prices than the UK - and Norway has even more oil.
69

zorba,

airdrie 27/04/2008 11:17:26
£1.50 a gallon! they are telling us that they have 70 days supply of fuel and not to panic buy, can someone then explain why the price has to increase. This labour government is a shambles, and a bunch of liars.
70

Slippylizard,

Sunny Rock 27/04/2008 11:25:12
Let's get this straight shall we? This has nothing to do with independence as some idiot mentioned earlier. Mr Salmond and Mr Brown need to get this sorted for the benefit of the ordinary people in the street not for the benefit of the scum unionists holding us all to ransom. Most union members are honourable people, these people are greedy and are being misled by ignorant left wingers who are as bad as the right wingers who manage the plant. Their benefits are way above the average man on the street and they want more. If that is not greed what is?

Government as a whole are a bunch of manipulating liars.
71

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 11:25:34
Senga ..for a child not to have a Bike is deemed deprivation in the UK or have you even looked into what relates to Poverty in the UK ? ..I agree that some could do with lessons on how to live with what you have ...till you can get what you need to change it....further Education etc ..it is all out there and it has benefited Scotland ..that is one of the reasons Scotland has been doing so well in the last 6 yrs ...and why ? because it was a Labour Government in Westminster that got us this far ...Not the SNP ...You act like the SNP are the calavary and have come into rescue a "Poor Deprived Subjicated Scotland " ....I dont know were you came from in Scotland ..but I was brought up to be Proud of Scotland and what we had already done and were going to do ..I had Grandfathers and Uncles that gave their Lifes so we in the UK could have the freedom we have ....Tell me when those men and women came back to Scotland after the War ...How many of them started to shout for " Scotlands Independence" I`ll tell you very few if any ...the reason being ? look into SNP History ..you`ll get your answer there and the Party of the 40`s isnt any different from the Party nowadays in its core beliefs ...Oh! and another thing ...Why is Alec so quiet on Mugabe ? ...I thought he wanted Scotland to have a Voice on the International stage ...So let me get it ...Alec will only speak on the International stage against the USA and the UK but will keep his opinion to himself when regarding his penpals ..Yep he will do Scotlands Repution no damage at all will he...
72

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 11:26:43
65 Boudica, Queen of the NU Lab Iceni - thanks to Broon's little escapade with company and private pensions, me and quite of of other blue-collared working class types will have to work beyond the age of 65. Add to that, we're ripped off big style with fuel prices: some Saudi princling catches the cold and up go the prices. And of course the Dick Turpins in UK treasury do their bit with the excessive tax on fuel. The occupant of No. 11 Downing St, is due to hike fuel duty even higher come October.
Maybe these jokers think the ordinary working man and woman is undeserving of driving a car, or having a holiday aboad, who knows ? but please spare me any cattle manure about this measures being essential to saving the planet (yawn).
73

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 11:29:09
Zorba ...because the all Petrol Pump owners are Greedy b`s...it is called Profiteering .....
74

Pilrig.,

27/04/2008 11:38:39
77 Boudica - add to that the UK treasury.
Anyway I'm off, driving doon to Melrose in a wee while. Oh what a sin - me using up the planet's and country's precious resource ! : )
75

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 27/04/2008 11:39:01
#73 Zorba £1.70 a gallon? I hope your other facts are more reliable.
76

Phil C,

27/04/2008 11:39:37
Groundhog Day. Both barrels should be pointing at disUnite. Selish, greedy, ignorant, thick, pig-headed b's.
77

b.allan,

lothians 27/04/2008 11:43:54
oil and pensions are reserved matters. Mr "north britain" began creating the current pensions situation many budgets ago, as part of his steal from the poor to make the rich wealthier philosophy. Still they pretend to be a socialist party. Shame on them. The SNP government has done all they can as i repeat this is a reserved matter. Meanwhile Mr Broon appears to prefer to talk about Zimbabwe...
78

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 11:50:41
68 Senga Jean-the UK has amongst the highest petrol price at the pumps yes, but as to the Scots having the highest poverty levels amongst ALL nations!!?! This simply isn't true-not even remotely true.
79

Dileas,

27/04/2008 11:56:35
I think that everyone is being unkind to happyenglish - it is understandable for any English people to confuse the Westminster government with England. Even the PM manages to confuse the two. Add to that the peculiar English arrogance and perception that their local area within England is the centre of the universe and it would be difficult to see it otherwise. Westminster is as foreign to them as Brussels is to the rest of us.

IN my youth I had a job interview with Westinghouse, a major US corporation. The interviewer said that they liked recruiting Scots - the British spoke their language and had a good professional standard but the Scots fitted in better - get three Englishmen together and they form a colony. His exact words!
80

Black Five,

edinburgh 27/04/2008 12:04:08
This just gets worse.These commies from Grangemouth are holding the country to ransom.
81

Mensa George,

Washington, DC 27/04/2008 12:06:51
Just fire the strikers and hire new folks. Duh?
82

boudica,

Glasgow .. 27/04/2008 12:28:22
82 ..Leave Senga alone she is living in that 4th Dimension Scotland ..Ypu know the one were it is a 3rd World County but has the Potential. to be 3rd Richest Country in the World .....and of Course Geoff ...Scotland will be in a better position To take over the World ...Fred the Shred in Charge of the Finances for this endeavour.....
83

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 12:36:30
86 Boudica-:)
83 Dileas-I think you are unfair to my friend happyenglish-after all the English are the only Home Nation not to have an assembly of their very own and have to use the British Union Parliament as an ad hoc English forum. NuLabours halfbaked devolution settlement has left the English, and many others understandably confused.
84

subrosa,

27/04/2008 12:41:51
I have concerns about both parties in this dispute but I do not think it's very wise to keep pillorying the owner of Ineos for being a multi-millionaire. So what? The man is obviously a risk taker and it's paid off.

As for the leader of Unite he's dreadful and does nothing for his members except appear to whip them up into a frenzy. I noticed on TV this morning there were no other unions at Grangemouth supporting them. They're staying out of it and ought to do too.

Hopefully this will concentrate political minds to ensure that our utilities are kept under national control and not in the hands of one private individual and a union whose leader thinks he's making himself king.
85

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 12:41:52
85 Mensa george-Just fire the strikers and hire new folks.Duh? Ah Mensa,Mensa were it that easy. the rest of the world is not as in the States. I love(sometimes_ as an employer, watching american movies in which the boss calls in a worker and says "You're fired! Clear your desk in half an hour!" Here in south Africa-modelled on our Commonwealth partner Britain, we have to issue endless warnings and go thru interminable hearings even for serious offences, before we can fire anybody.
86

Dileas,

27/04/2008 12:44:24
Geoff (87) said "NuLabours halfbaked devolution settlement has left the English, and many others understandably confused."

Sorry Geoff - they have been confused all my life. They just couldn't tell the difference between "England" and "Britain", seeing them as synonymous - until recent years when devolution made them realise the difference - as you say, they have grasped that Westminster is British rather than English. Never mind that it is still overwhelmingly pro-England; they see a lack of advantage to England, which is really what matters to them. When the Scottish parliament introduced benefits available from its existing budget, they realised that Scotland now had benefits that they didn't and that just wasn't good enough. Hence this moaning from happyenglish.
87

Angus Ogg,

27/04/2008 12:56:16
#10

Commenting before midnight is no great thing.

Anyone with half a brain can do so if they wish.

You just have to think laterally and go via a different route.

I ain't going to spell it out. But a reasonable clue is...

"Back To The Future".

That and using your copy and paste function.

It suits me to comment early because I need to go to work early. That is when there is any fuel about.
88

Angus Ogg,

27/04/2008 13:01:29
#9,

Manure. Very good.

If you want to be rude, go do it in the privacy of your bathroom. If you want a debate, fine, I am up for it.

Please explain to me, how you would tell a guy whose wife has just had a new baby that he is out of a job?

Why, because two dogmatic political opponents, one on the far right and one on the far left have been firing up some hapless local union official so that "his" workers go on strike to paralyse a whole nation and cost good, decent, working people their jobs?

Answer me that and I will have some respect for you.

Twins? Perhaps Not.
89

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:36:54
90 Dileas-you're absolutely right about the English/British confusion from the south britons. A kind interpretation would be ignorance altho some would be justified in saying arrogance. What I can't get my head around is how the worlds media constantly reinforces the ignorance talking of "Englands Queen Elizabeth" and Englands support for america etc..
90

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 27/04/2008 13:40:01
Have just seen John Swinney on TV. Now I remember why the SNP ditched him as leader.
91

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:40:25
92 Angus Ogg-interesting comment. In general strike action is such a sad way of handling disputes-lose-lose is guaranteed! Surely there has to be a better way?